As you may or may not have noticed, I tend to stay out of the poltiical threads... not because they don't interest me, or that they are somehow beneath me.... it's that my convictions are all over the place, dependant upon the subject matter at hand. It's also because of something else: many, if not most of the posts I read are fueled by a phenomonon known as "Confirmation Bias."
From Wikipedia, the most expedient (if not necessarily accurate) resource on the web:
Confirmation bias (or myside bias[1]) is a tendency for people to prefer information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses, independently of whether they are true.[2][3] People can reinforce their existing attitudes by selectively collecting new evidence, by interpreting evidence in a biased way or by selectively recalling information from memory.[4] Some psychologists use "confirmation bias" for any of these three cognitive biases, while others restrict the term to selective collection of evidence, using assimilation bias for biased interpretation.[5][2]
People tend to test hypotheses in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and neglecting alternatives.[4][6] This strategy is not necessarily a bias, but combined with other effects it can reinforce existing beliefs.[7][4] The biases appear in particular for issues that are emotionally significant (including some personal and political topics) and for established beliefs that shape the individual's expectations.[4][8][9] Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false)[10], the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series)[11] and illusory correlation (when people perceive an association between two events that doesn't actually exist).[12]
Confirmation biases are errors in information processing, distinct from the behavioral confirmation effect (also called self-fulfilling prophecy), in which people's expectations influence their own behavior.[13] They can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military and political contexts.[14][15] Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs.[9]*
This is only the first bits, but the rest of the article is very enlightening, as well... especially as framed by the threads we see here.
Most of us have deeply-held beliefs that have been nurtured and cultivated over a long period of time. Many of these beliefs date back to our most impressionable ages during childhood/adolescence. Some have been cultivated through life experience. So... it's natural that each of us would feel compelled to bond with others who share our beliefs, morals, and ideals. Just as natural, is the tendency to treat others who espouse a different view as "The Opposition." (a very strange phenomenon, since we are all citizens of the United States of America, don't you think?) It's one of the most human traits we all possess... and it's one of the traits that make us all so similar- no matter what our religious, political or philosophical bent may be. It's also the 'Jet-A Deisel Fuel' (I used to work in an oil refinery, years ago) that seems to supercharge so many of the debates that rage in here.
Enter Confirmation Bias. A surprising number of the politically-based posts in Tailgate are shining examples of this phenomenon. I've lost track of the number of times a poster has stated his or her take on a particular issue, then followed it up with links to pundits' articles, YouTube videos, etc. to add authority and (a perceived) gravitas to their initial stance. I've seen threads degenerate into "link wars," wherein neither party is swayed, but gigabytes of bandwidth is devoted to perpetual tit-for-tat exchanges. Folks in here play the tit-for-tat game regarding Obama v. Bush, Lib v. Con, Dem v. Repub, MSNBC v. Fox... (pant, pant) until the cows come home- and I see the same screen names going at it on multiple threads... with neither side giving or gaining ground with the other.
It's fascinating to me, and I've learned a great deal about my fellow Browns fans since tiptoeing into the Tailgate a few years ago. What interesting creatures we are, indeed.
My political beliefs are much like my own personal beliefs... a little from here, a little from there. Ideals that have left an impression on me will stick for as long as they have relevance and meaning in my life. Some beliefs have stuck for decades. Others have come and gone like a Summer romance. Needless to say, I'm still an evolving 'work in progress.' I'm still trying to figure out the complexities of this day-to-day we call Life, and I find myself in envy of those who can state with certainty that this way of thinking or that way of thinking is absolutely correct, right and proper. In other words, I'd make a terrible Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olberman. (Maybe that's the reason why I have such wildly divergent types as friends- and trust me, not all of them can get along with each other. )
If you are a poster who fits my description, you know who you are (as do we all). I'd love to hear from all of you. Tell me how you came to your positions, and why you fight so fiercely to promote them. DON'T FIGHT WITH OTHERS WHO SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU. I can get that on any other thread. This thread is for you to tell your story, state your case, and promote your p.o.v. How did you come to be the poster we now read? Hop up on the soapbox, and tell us How you became the "who" that we now read daily.
I'm hoping that the personal stories you offer will give some background as to why you believe as you do. Who knows? Maybe hearing some backstory will help to flesh out why we all read what we do from each other. It might also serve as a springboard for us all to have a little more understanding when we post on highly-charged topics. It may not change anyone's mind, but it just might explain a little about why we all read what we do.
Great idea for a thread. I guess I believe what I do by my life experiences. Politics were never really talked about in my house.
My earliest memories of a politics was Regan. I loved to hear him speak and it all seemed to make sense. I fully supported his beefing up of the military and his positions on national defense.
I still remember the day I decided to join the Navy. I was watching a news special report on ABC and they were talking about the Navy Seal that were executed on a plane and they showed him being dumped on the tarmac. I signed up sometime that week. From then on it has been the most important issue for me.
The only thing else that I cared about was abortion. My beliefs about abortion from started from my religious upbringing. I have tempered my anti-abortion stance somewhat when it comes to politics but not a whole lot. Politically the only time I am anti-abortion is after the baby is viable. My beliefs are religious based and I do not think others should be subjected to them.
My monetary beliefs come from the earliest debates I can remember and have only been strengthened. I am a firm believer in lower taxes and less government. I believe Reagan was right and the only reason the deficit grew was a lack of restraint.
I'm not sure if this is what you wanted so I will stop for know. I will get into more detail if that is the way the thread goes.
Like my father before me, I am a conservative. He was the smartest man I know and gave me good advice my whole life. He was a self made success story and lived a fulfilling life. I don't think I can go wrong sharing his views. Like Pdawg, I believe in less tax and less government, that Reagan had the right idea and that our defecit is the result of a lack of restraint on spending. I used to be a die-hard republican, but I'm rather disgusted with the current state of the party. I don't believe the government is responsible for supplying someone capable of working an income, housing, healthcare or a college education. I don't think the government should be bailing out failing banks and businesses. I think any non-felon, mentally competent citizen should be able to own and carry a firearm. I don't believe in discrimination and I don't believe in giving an unfair advantage to anyone based on race, sex or religion. I don't believe in government management of any private enterprise, but I believe regulations should be enforced. I believe in freedom of the press and free speech. I currently have mixed feelings on religion and abortion. That's about all I can think of right now, but I'm sure there's more.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Video about the formation of ideology and the pleasurable "hit" of confirmation bias. Includes brainscans sorted by political ideology.
My political beliefs: I was raised by a libertarian and a democrat, however the libertarian votes republican. Put through a small amount of lutheran church as well. Neither church nor politics was particularly important in my family.
I went through 12 years of mind numbing state education.
At age 18 I voted libertarian and was disappointed to see the percentages for what I thought was the most logical position. About 2 years later I was swept up into conspiracy theory, a year later into Ron Paul fever, followed by realizing the futility and paranoia of a lot of it.
I stumbled upon a video by the guy I posted above and read two of his books on anarchy. As well listened to his arguments on atheism and moved from full on subjectivist mystic to atheist.
I'm currently an anarchist in the sense that using violence to resolve conflicts is immoral (except self-defense). The government relies solely on violence in the form of forced payment regardless of services rendered or contract signed. (not just talking about America here...historically).
I don't care much for political or supernatural debate these days. I do occasionally chime in when I'm frustrated at what to me looks like overwhelming madness. I'm currently focused on psychology and better parenting practices as a means to create a better world.
Wanted to add a little to the thread. I feel a little like the 1st gen europeans that chose to take risks and travel to the new world to give their families the best life that they could.
I'm a summer, water person, who's expertise was technology. As I watched, and was involved in, technological change that brought the world much much closer, I wanted to bring my family to the best place I could irrespective of geography.
I saw a time, in my lifetime, that place was not substantial.
Some things have happened already. I have friends in Ohio that see me more than their friends 60 miles away. In email, and other means, video, etc...I have maintained the connections that I value but wish I could I see them in person more.
Other things will take time. Scramjet technology and other technologies that we can't see yet will continue to bring people closer together. A special on the Concord is a great example. We're living the age of air-buses on the cheap. We will experience a bifrication again that includes a time of specialized air travel collapsing distances much the same as the 40s and 50s.
I could get into my thoughts on politics further but just know that my main issue is with personal responsibility and it flows directly from that.
I grew up in a middle class family where the primary bread winner (dad) was a union worker for GM.. Mom and Dad voted for Kennedy and were Democrats.. I wasn't interested in politics as a youth.. Baseball, Football, basketball and my bicycle and music played a bigger role in my life..
Opinions began to form in the 70's for me...
I remember in the early 70's, my dad got layed off for a short while. I remember him saying that there is something wrong when a man can get layed off and still collect 90% of his pay..... I mean, you have to understand, dad did work for GM, but he also had his own business. A retail store and shoe repair store.. Talk about looking at things from both sides....
It really was the best of both worlds..for me, I got to see both sides of the age old arguments and for me, it meant looking at both sides and trying to find a solution that fits for as many folks as possible. Yet, knowing that you will never please everyone.
It's funny, as I grew more and more in business, I leaned towards the right I guess. But still, both feet planted firmly in the center on most issues..
You'll find me open on Guns and Sexual Orientation issues.. You will find me less open about war and greed. I don't have a hidden agenda about race.. Don't care about the color of a mans skin....
I'm conservative in the way I run my business and personal life, but I'd give my shirt to a person that needs it more than I do.
All in all, I try to be fair,, don't always succeed.. But I try..
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/04/1007:41 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I grew up in a family where my father and grandfather were in unions, so as a result, they largely voted democrat. Despite the family's democratic leanings, my parents instilled in me a respect for public servants. For example, my father may not have agreed with all the political moves of George Bush Sr., but he still respected the fact that the guy dedicated his whole life to serving this country. This is why I try to refrain from bashing political figures for relatively minor mistakes. They are under immense pressure, and the majority of them are doing the best that they can.
Up until my early 20's, I kept up with world events, but I didn't really participate in politics. I became a little more passionate about politics in my early 20's. I spent the first term of Bush Jr. completely bashing the administration, without really researching issues deeply. As I got a little older, I came to the conclusion that this was kind of a pointless exercise.
What I have tried to do the last few years is to look at all sides of an issue. I'll watch some Fox News, some MSNBC, some CNN (though admittedly, all of these news channels ultimately seem to degenerate into shouting matches, and can suffer from extremes of the confirmation bias you speak of). If I'm going to comment on a bill or an issue, I try to look up some raw statistics rather than just trusting the stats that are presented in the news media. When deciding whether to support a policy or bill, I also try to look at history or other countries throughout the world for examples of what may work and what doesn't work. I'm not going to say I never exhibit confirmation bias b/c I feel that everyone does at some point. But I at least try to be aware of it and keep an open mind as much as I can.
Quote: DON'T FIGHT WITH OTHERS WHO SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU.
I appreciate that you don't want this in this thread. But I wanted to make a comment in general. IMO, actual debates, while heated at times, are a critical component of what makes this country work. I have no problem with debates getting heated, as long as the debate is centered on evidence. When debates degenerate into name calling and personal attacks (not necessarily of each other, but of politicians as well), then nothing is moving forward. Everyone becomes defensive, and everyone stops hearing what the other side of the debate is saying.
Quote: DON'T FIGHT WITH OTHERS WHO SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU.
I appreciate that you don't want this in this thread. But I wanted to make a comment in general. IMO, actual debates, while heated at times, are a critical component of what makes this country work. I have no problem with debates getting heated, as long as the debate is centered on evidence. When debates degenerate into name calling and personal attacks (not necessarily of each other, but of politicians as well), then nothing is moving forward. Everyone becomes defensive, and everyone stops hearing what the other side of the debate is saying.
I couldn't agree more. We can't all hold hands and sing all the time...and we shouldn't.
I don't have the time or desire to share what has made me who I am politically. I will say, though, that I always try to be fair by looking at both sides of an issue (no matter how much I disagree with one side or the other). I have been known to learn enough to sway my thinking by doing this and I've never regretted it.
One thing I do remember was watching the Presidential debates of 1984 between Reagan and Mondale. I was 14. I was glued to the television. Though I probably didn't understand half of what they were saying, I knew it was important and so I watched.
Grew up in a Republican family.My parents said don't borrow money. If you can't afford it now wait until you can. I thought the saying "if the government ran it crime wouldn't pay" came from the burning bush. I still believe the pay as you go part but my mistrust of government has been greatly tempered by my experiences in the private business sector that my folks so worshiped. I've seen people bleach spoiling meat so that they could sell it and make a couple of bucks I've seen contractors build unsafe structures to save a few dollars on material. I've seen managers put workers in unsafe situations because they didn't want the added expense. I've seen managers tell workers to dump haz.waste on the ground and in sewers. I've had hard working family and friends suffer long painful deaths from illness and have seen the financial devastation 80/20 plans leave on the family. I've seen the faces of loved ones when they tell me about $9000. hormone shots they need 4 times a year to fight cancer and save their lives. I've seen insurance companies stall payments and try to drop deathly ill friends. I've been laid off and and had an employer say thanks for the last 29 years BTW your insurance runs out tonight at midnight. I've seen the medical industry bill an individual 40 grand for an illness but gladly accept 15 grand in payment from an insurance company. To make a long story short I have come to believe as flawed and inefficient as the government is, it provides a necessary balance to an equally flawed private sector.
Like this thread idea and thanks for it. The confirmation bias is something that I became aware of about my senior year of high school but never knew what it was called. It certainly played much too large a role in my thought process and I've been glad to mostly rid my life of it.
Quick background. Middle class, blue collar family that put me through Catholic schools my entire life. Both tended to vote conservative (minus both surprisingly going Obama last election but I digress) and infuse their values from religion into their votes a bit. I'm all over the place politically, now. I feel like a cross somewhere between Libertarian and Anarchist pretty much. I don't like my gov't being involved in much of anything as they seem too incompetent to walk and chew gum at the same time, let alone juggle as many responsibilities as they keep expanding towards. I find Republican economic policies a bit better than Democrats' but then in turn find the Republicans intolerant and invasive on social issues to a point of relative disgust I feel towards them on that front.
Back to this Confirmation Bias, about senior year of high school I noticed it and had to put a stop to it. I used to as a sophomore and junior in high school get on here and vehemently post and debate with the others in tailgate (though I was a sheep just doing what you said about basically taking one person's opinion and recycling it as my own). At some point I just took a step back and was tired of all the arguing and just how much of a downer being so obsessed in following politics was, particularly American politics and how the same talking points are beat senselessly on repeat and it's become such a non-genuine, fake field of endeavor. I found it mindless that I was forming an opinion on matters and looking for evidence to support it instead of the other way around. It's irrational. I was doing the same thing with religion. I wanted so badly to believe despite what my head cited as a lack of plausibility and became quite involved in apologetics. I've since become an agnostic, de facto atheist since but it's okay because I am comfortable with the way I'm reaching my decisions. I'm not a consequentialist by many measures at all. I focus on the means of my actions/words above all else and feel truth needs no apologies so the rest will play itself out.
Overall I try to completely detach from my innate tendency to use the confirmation bias and can do it pretty darn well. Everything needs to be questioned and looked at deeper. I find NOTHING exempt from that practice of thinking and investigation.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Politically - I am the result of my upbringing. Although politics were never discussed at home. Never - honestly, until I turned about 22 - 23 did I ever discuss politics with my dad. I'm the 3rd of 4 kids - I jokingly say I was an "oops" baby because of the age difference between me and my older brothers - but I am quickly brought back to reality by the age difference between me and my younger sister.
By the time I came around, my parents had good jobs - mom was a teacher, retired after 37 years. Dad started in the accounting office, and worked his way up to the top dog - and has been at the same job for 42-43 years.
We weren't rich, but many would say we were. I wore my brothers hand me downs (remember, there was a decent age difference between us. Getting 1 pair of new sneakers a year was unbelievable!!!!! Awesome day!)
Money wise - I am about as conservative as they come. Don't spend what you don't have. I know many that practice that better than I do - but in the last 3 years I've gotten good at it.
Political parties? I won't pigeon hole myself. My feelings are probably well known - but that doesn't mean much in todays world, as we all know.
Conservative. In just about everything. One of my brothers is as liberal as the day is long. He has also worked for a state gov't. since about 1992 or so. In my opinion, he's not aware of the "you don't get a raise unless you deserve it, and often times even if you deserve it you don't get it" philosophy. Many of my opinions are because of him.
Many of my opinions are a direct result of where I went to college - a 4 year Mennonite college. 1987-1991. The discrepancy between what the college professed and what actually happened is un real in my opinion. The school was not what it professed to be - other than ..........well, think tie dye liberalism.
My stance on religion, and politics, was in great part formed by the school I went to. (they were in the national news just recently for something I won't say).
I like the idea of people doing for themselves. Love it. I love the goal of bettering myself and my family through hard work. I understand and like the idea of helping people that through no fault of their own are on a down side. I do not like the idea of society taking care of people that COULD, but won't.
Spend less than you earn, and help others how you can. Gov't. should not be the big brother - gov't. should be in place to make infrastructure, and protect the nation. Gov't. is needed to an extent in societal situations - but not to make people lifelong wards of the state so to speak.
I am actually pretty soft spoken in real life. I have been accused of being laid back but a straight up guy by my subordinates. I am better at writing out my thoughts than speaking them. In the next life I would LOVE to be a speechwriter.
I am currently employed as a supervisor for a factory after having spent 13 years as a blue collar union man elsewhere (hence my name). My father worked two jobs just to provide for his family so I learned throughout life the value of hard work. The necessity of it.
My mom raised my brother and I as Roman Catholics. I have, as an adult, became a born again Christian though admittedly I struggle with being a good Christian, am not very good with it, but I try.
My father passed away some four years ago to stomach cancer, I remember walking down the halls of the Cleveland Clinic really upset and shaking my fist at God as to how unfair it was. It was then that I turned the corner and saw a young mother walking her daughter, whom I assume to be somewhere around 6 years old, the little girl had cancer, her hair was gone.
It was at that moment I began to really hate myself for being upset with my dads passing. If it was indeed unfair for a 58 year old father whom I idolized, how fair was it for that little girl?
I guess my politics in life is shaped by reality and continues. I am not closed minded at all. Give me a good argument and I'll change my mind.
I would classify myself as a Ron Paul Republican. He is about as close to me as you could get I suppose.
Though I do have many passions that would get me tossed out of the current GOP: I believe in gay rights I believe that marriage should be sanctified, but not at the expense of others. I believe we do a terrible job raising kids today. I would want universal health care for kids not adults. No parent should worry about paying for their kids' chemo, nor should they have to hold fundraisers either. I believe as adults you have to carve out your own life. Make your own bed and lie in it. I believe violence begets violence. I think as a nation we are far too accepting of it.
I look at things a bit this way. I am pro life. But for the ones being born, not the unborn. We do a terrible job parenting kids and educating them. Too many kids are victims and perpetrators of violent and increasingly sexual crimes. Kids are neglected and abused. Let's take care of the kids that are born before we worry about the ones that are not.
I am worried about the food we eat (toxins), the air we breathe (toxins) and the water (toxins) than I am about the global temperature.
I think most politics today is about arguing over an ideology rather than the problem at hand.
I think people should have open minds. I learned a lot by reading Malcolm X and I learn a lot by reading Pat Buchanan.
I can't stand hate, racism, sexism, well . . . most isms, And violence. Unless you hurt a child, then all bets off . . .
I am 26, adopted from a foreign country, and love America.
I am a moderate on most politics, but will vote R and D depending on the situation.
I am against illegal immigration...if they come to our country, they should play by our rules. I am against big government, but some social service agencies need to be funded (my father is a psychotherapist). He taught me at a young age to dislike unions. I broke a strike in Youngstown in 2005 working for a newspaper, and vowed I will never work at a unionized paper, even if it pays me more. I'd rather make less on sheer principle and supplement what I don't make via freelancing. I am a moderate Roman Catholic. I am not against gay people and am still learning about their role in the Church...how do you tell someone "don't be gay?"
I feel bad for kids of divorced families and even though they tell me they're "fine" I just keep silent. It's hard on families these days.
I'm against the health bill by Obama for financial reasons...who's gonna pay for it?
I'm in the media, but hate (some) liberal policies the MSM perpetuates. And I hate the NYT, because it is TOO liberal for me.
I am liberal when it comes to saving the environment and being "green." However, I am also willing to drill for oil while we get alternative sources of energy ready in the next 20 years.
I am Catholic and generally base my political beliefs on some of my religious ones. I am friends with Protestants and even athiests. My father and his side of the family is even Jewish, so I understand tolerance...Judaism is very fascinating...
I wish for world peace, but at the same time am a military affairs junkie...I LOVE the military and wish I had the ability to join (physical defects)...but I can't.
Although I did not vote for Obama, I will give him a chance.
Well, in my case, I was born to a middle class family ..... which later became a single parent lower income household when dear old dad decided to abandon his kids. We got some government asistance ..... and my mother worked 35-40 hours per week. As a kid, I had to watch my younger brothers, and basically grow up in a hurry.
I was always embarassed when I had to go to the store to buy food with those damn stamps. I knew that my mom had done everything she could for us ..... but it ws still miserable. Dear old dad went off to Florida with his new, younger girlfriend. He was living it up while his family struggled. The state refused to do much to pursue him and/or his money. It was definitely a different era then, when a deadbeat dad could easily escape across state lines and never have to worry about paying for his children ever again.
We were lucky in that we had my extended family to help us out. My Aunts and Uncles, and Grandparents on my mother's side were wonderful. If not for them, I really don't know where we would have wound up. They also set a good example for how responsible people should handle their lives and responsibilities. They showed my brothers and me how to live with integrity, and how to handle the good and bad times. They believed in reliance on oneself .... but understodd that sometimes people do need limited assitance because of circumstances beyond their control.
My brothers and I grew up, and each started working pretty much as soon as we could. I cut lawns from the time I was 12 or so ....helped out on my uncle's farm in the summers ..... and started working regularly when I hit 16. My brothers followed a similar path. We each helped with what we could at home. From the time we started working, we bought many of our own clothes, cars, and whetever else we wanted. By the time I was 16, we were off government assistance. We certainly were not even close to middle class, but we struggled our way through. We worked hard, saved, and worked some more.
Today, everyone in my immediate family owns a home. We all work full time. (Except my mom, who still works 20-25 hours per week even today when she is in her 70s) We take care of ourselves, our families, and our responsibilities. We do what we have to in order to make ends meet. If that means getting rid of a convenience because it just doesn't fit the budget, then that is what we do. (Neither my brother nor I have cable, for example) None of us go crazy buying the newest and most expensive status symbol of a vehicle. We live within our means, and if we have to do without something to continue to do thus, then that is what we do.
None od us were given anything. We worked our butts off to accomplish what we have in life. We took assistance when there was no other choice, (when we were kids) and were off it as soon as we could be.
I really believe that this is a huge difference between us and people today. We were ashamed to have to accept help like that. Today people line up with their hands out for food stamps, money, housing, utility help, medical care, clothing, and the list goes on. It's like they should be entitled to everything without working for it. I think that is wrong. I believe that people can never truly own their lives while living in service to the government. No one can ever be secure in that condition. What happens when/if the government goes broke, and we have trained entire generations that they do not have to be responsible for themselves? What happens if the assistance, money, housing, food stamps, medical, transportation, and all of the other "freebies" end? How can anyone truly ever grow up when they do not have to be responsible for themselves? I do not hate people in this circumstance, rather, I pity them. They will never know the unbridled joy of accomplishment. They will never know the bitter disappointment of trying something and not quite making it. They will never know the incredible feeling of power bestowed by getting back up and trying again anyway. In many ways, they live the immature life of a child .... who has a parent take care of them forever, and who will never be able to say "I did that on my own and by virtue of my own hard work". I definitely pity those who will never have that feeling, and I loathe the government programs that make it possible for people to abdicate all control over, and responsibility for their own lives.
You asked.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I'm in social media marketing, currently busting my ass for far too little hourly pay w/ no benefits because I believe in the building blocks we put in place. New business will only mean good things for my position in the company and my wage and benefits, however. I'm very career oriented and driven to succeed.
I was raised by awesome parents. They have given me tremendous guidance in how to act as a person and professionally, as well. I truly value family values and is a major reason why I would like to live in the same city as my parents. I'm not rich by any means, but I have been taught the importance of spending wisely and budgeting. I've also had a lot of support from my parents financially (mostly regarding college tuition) that I cannot thank them enough for. My parents have always lived within their means and after seeing the economic collapse in the past couple years, it's been a true eye-opener for me whenever I wanted something truly expensive. Like my dad, I get a sick pit in my stomach whenever I buy something expensive, however, now that I'm working I feel better about it.
I'm a confirmed Catholic but I don't tow the company line on Catholic beliefs...so much so that I don't truly consider myself a Catholic, but I do believe in God, Christ and an afterlife due to events that have happened in my life that have demonstrated that to me.
I'm anti-abortion after the first 9 weeks of pregnancy, once the brain starts to develop, that's a life. But my official stance on it is that it's not my place to tell a woman what she can do with her body.
I'm pretty liberal on social issues. I have a "whatever, go ahead, it doesn't affect me anyway" approach to gay marriage.
My political approach is pretty similar to Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert because they point out the obvious absurdities of our government, and I really think you can learn more from them because they call out the obvious absurdities.
I would gladly pay more in taxes if it meant that higher education, healthcare etc. is covered because I believe that a healthy, educated society is best for economic stability and growth.
I don't spend my money ridiculously. I'm a big believer in saving and I cringe when my friends want go places where we spend money like drunken sailors (I'd rather hang out at bars in Coventry than bars downtown, for instance, which I know isn't a smart way to spend money, but it's smarter than downtown). I believe in living smart. That means I don't want a big house with lots of things, I want a smaller house with nicer things in it. I want a compact car w/ leather interior and all the bells and whistles instead of a lower-level larger car/SUV because of the money saved not only on the price of the car, but the cost of gasoline as well. (I'm targeting either a 2012 Ford Focus Titanium or 2011 Chevy Cruze RS LTZ, for example)
I'm a big believer in sustainability.
I believe government regulation is a necessary evil because if everything were left up to business, working conditions would be worse, wages would be worse and products would be less safe for our use and consumption.
I don't believe either party has the best interests of the people in mind...a country run by the far-right neo-cons of the world truly frightens me more than a more socialist country run by the far left, however. That just means the lesser of two evils, though.
This is kind of incomplete because it's hard for me to talk about my political beliefs because I just go by what feels "right" to me, but there you go.
Tust me, Dawgs and Dawgettes... I've read every one of your responses to this thread... and I thank you all for your contributions. I couldn't be more pleased with the the results... as you've all contributed exactly what I asked of you. You've talked about yourselves- and the life experiences that have made you the DawgTalkers we've all come to know.
Thank you alll- so very, very much... and please- keep on posting. It's the only way I could think of to put a face behind the posts I've been reading for so very long.
Before this thread sees its demise (as all threads inevitably do), I'll try very hard to post my own views. Trust me- it'll be one of my patented, "Clemdawg Long-ass Ones" (hehehe), but I'll do it from the heart... and with total candor.
Until then, please... continue with your Character Outlines/ Belief Statements.
I started this thread because I believe (in my heart of hearts) that we can learn much more from our fellow Browns Fan from his/her life story than we can from the posts we generate in a narrowly-focused political debate. A little background always helps to promote some mutual understanding, n'est-ce pas ?
I can't tell you all how much I appreciate your contributuions... and how much I've already learned about the people I thought I knew.
More, please.... if you are willing to share.
My very best to you all during this Easter/Passover Season, Clemdawg
what are your thoughts on unions? i thought unions were useful at one time, but now I abhor (most of) them.
I feel taking care of the environment shouldn't be a left or a right issue. (not accusing you, just saying in general...too many folks want to politicize the environment). To me, it should be everyone's issue. Not whether or not it's a liberal or a conservative issue.
what are your thoughts on unions? i thought unions were useful at one time, but now I abhor (most of) them.
I feel taking care of the environment shouldn't be a left or a right issue. (not accusing you, just saying in general...too many folks want to politicize the environment). To me, it should be everyone's issue. Not whether or not it's a liberal or a conservative issue.
Unions go back and forth. There will be a time when unions are needed to protect the workers, and there will be a time unions are too powerful and need to be slapped on the wrist.
There is no definitive ideology...the truth is somewhere in between.
Hope a two month old thread like this one is okay for a bump...
I was born in raised in a suburb of Cleveland which is a very middle class city but with a now dying school system. My parents never really talked politics nor do I think they really cared. I asked my fair share about politics and they seemed to like Clinton and were mixed on Bush because we were hit by the first unemployment wave and he didn't seem to try to be helping Americans at that time get jobs. It was around that time I had my first real thought of unfounded criticism against Bush by thinking he caused my step-father to lose his job. Since then and up until recently I always viewed the GOP in a bad light.
I started to pay more attention to politics when the 2008 election started to ramp up. I would be able to vote in it and I wanted good info on who would be the best candidate to me. I had friends telling me these ridiculous things that Obama is the anti-christ, a muslim (who really cares?!), and not a U.S. Citizen which made me even more interested in politics to try and find out the actual truth.
Through all my researching I found that politics in these times are a very ugly world of mud slinging with many politicians who care very little for the common man. I've tried to curb my pessimistic and slightly jaded view on politics to learn more about my beliefs and if there's anyone out there that shares my views.
My views for the most are very centralist but I tend to be siding with a lot of libertarian views but the only problem I have with them is total legalization of drugs and I'm still not too sure on how their tax ideas would work.
My main goal in my political ideas is not to have the same ideas verbatim from Beck, Olberman, Limbaugh, or any of the other entertainers who try to give their "de facto" view on politics.
The history of politics is a pretty nasty business, dating back to the founding of our country.
George Washington was a war hero, and about as close to being universally loved as is possible. However, once he left office and the competition to replace him began, all hell broke loose. There were some vile, libelous, and flat out disgusting campaigns run against political opponents in those days. Accusing an opponent of incest, adultery, murder, being a foreign spy, a satan worshipper, infected with the disease of the decade, and so on might be mild examples of the lengths some went to win elections.
A little electioneering history .... and bear in mind that Adams and Jefferson were lifelong friends. They helped negotiate the end of the war. They were both signers of the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was also Adams Vice President. LOL
Negative campaigning in America was sired by two lifelong friends, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Back in 1776, the dynamic duo combined powers to help claim America's independence, and they had nothing but love and respect for one another. But by 1800, party politics had so distanced the pair that, for the first and last time in U.S. history, a president found himself running against his vice president.
Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."
In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."
As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward. See 8 great campaign slogans »
Even Martha Washington succumbed to the propaganda, telling a clergyman that Jefferson was "one of the most detestable of mankind." Mental Floss: Jefferson: The sensitive writer type
Jefferson hires a hatchet man
Back then, presidential candidates didn't actively campaign. In fact, Adams and Jefferson spent much of the election season at their respective homes in Massachusetts and Virginia.
But the key difference between the two politicians was that Jefferson hired a hatchet man named James Callendar to do his smearing for him. Adams, on the other hand, considered himself above such tactics. To Jefferson's credit, Callendar proved incredibly effective, convincing many Americans that Adams desperately wanted to attack France. Although the claim was completely untrue, voters bought it, and Jefferson stole the election.
Jefferson paid a price for his dirty campaign tactics, though. Callendar served jail time for the slander he wrote about Adams, and when he emerged from prison in 1801, he felt Jefferson still owed him.
After Jefferson did little to appease him, Callendar broke a story in 1802 that had only been a rumor until then -- that the President was having an affair with one of his slaves, Sally Hemings. In a series of articles, Callendar claimed that Jefferson had lived with Hemings in France and that she had given birth to five of his children.
The story plagued Jefferson for the rest of his career. And although generations of historians shrugged off the story as part of Callendar's propaganda, DNA testing in 1998 showed a link between Hemings' descendents and the Jefferson family.
Just as truth persists, however, so does friendship. Twelve years after the vicious election of 1800, Adams and Jefferson began writing letters to each other and became friends again. They remained pen pals for the rest of their lives and passed away on the same day, July 4, 1826. It was the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. Mental Floss: The post-White House lives of presidents
John Quincy Adams gets slapped with elitism
John Adams lived long enough to see his son become president in 1825, but he died before John Quincy Adams lost the presidency to Andrew Jackson in 1828. Fortunately, that meant he didn't have to witness what many historians consider the nastiest contest in American history.
The slurs flew back and forth, with John Quincy Adams being labeled a pimp, and Andrew Jackson's wife getting called a slut.
As the election progressed, editorials in the American newspapers read more like bathroom graffiti than political commentary. One paper reported that "General Jackson's mother was a common prostitute, brought to this country by the British soldiers! She afterward married a mulatto man, with whom she had several children, of which number General Jackson is one!"
What got Americans so fired up? For one thing, many voters felt John Quincy Adams should never have been president in the first place. During the election of 1824, Jackson had won the popular vote but not the electoral vote, so the election was decided by the House of Representatives. Henry Clay, one of the other candidates running for president, threw his support behind Adams. To return the favor, Adams promptly made him secretary of state. Jackson's supporters labeled it "The Corrupt Bargain" and spent the next four years calling Adams a usurper. Mental Floss: 5 secrets left off the White House tour
Beyond getting the short end of the electoral stick, Andrew Jackson managed to connect with voters via his background -- which couldn't have been more different than Adams'.
By the time John Quincy was 15, he'd traveled extensively in Europe, mastered several languages, and worked as a translator in the court of Catherine the Great.
Meanwhile, Andrew Jackson had none of those privileges. By 15, he'd been kidnapped and beaten by British soldiers, orphaned, and left to fend for himself on the streets of South Carolina.
Adams was a Harvard-educated diplomat from a prominent New England family. Jackson was a humble war hero from the rural South who'd never learned to spell. He was the first presidential candidate in American history to really sell himself as a man of the people, and the people loved him for it.
Having been denied their candidate in 1824, the masses were up in arms for Jackson four years later. And though his lack of education and political experience terrified many Adams supporters, that argument didn't hold water for the throngs who lined up to cast their votes for "Old Hickory." Ever since Jackson's decisive victory, no presidential candidate has dared take a step toward the White House without first holding hands with the common man.
But losing the 1828 election may have been the best thing to happen to John Quincy Adams. After sulking home to Massachusetts, Adams pulled himself together and ran for Congress, launching an epic phase of his career.
During his 17 years in the House of Representatives, Adams became an abolitionist hero, championing legislation to open the debate on slavery. And in 1841, he famously put his money where his mouth was, when he defended the 39 African captives aboard the slave ship Amistad before the U.S. Supreme Court. At a time when all but two of the justices were pro-slavery, Adams won his human rights plea.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Jefferson was also Adams Vice President. LOL
back then, 2nd place in the presidential election became the VP. not a bad policy in terms of trying to keep the executive staff more balanced. not a good policy in terms of trying to keep the president alive (could easily see someone taking a chance today if "their" candidate was next in line because of the $$$/power involved).
Oh boy, where to begin? I've had such an influence of different points of view that have really made me who I am today.
My mom's dad came from Mexico, and of course were die-hard catholics. Her and my dad divorced when I was 2, and since then has always fallen into the 'lower middle-class' category. I would go over to her house every weekend and she gave me an appreciation for a hard days work and the satisfaction of doing things yourself. My mom's family is practically all democrats.
My dad on the other hand, was in the financial sector and was fairly well off. I went to an excellent school in a Toledo suburb where money and material objects were king. But, unlike my mom, he was gone every other day either partying or out with clients. I remember going out to eat, or the movie theaters, with my dad once. He still taught me valuable lessons, and he leaned more republican but he did vote democrat every now and then.
That being said, I'm a fiscal conservative and am socially liberal. I strongly believe that this country was founded on the principles of small government and freedom for it's citizens. I used to think of myself as a republican, mostly because I thought my ideology matched theirs (how wrong was I) and because most of my family were democrats who bashed the republicans without knowing the facts. I'm against abortion but don't believe the gov't has a right to tell regulate it. Same with marriage, gov't has no business in it. So yah, just a little background. I'd love to go back to school for political science and speech writing.
"Every time that I score, I'm going to get the ball and sign it "To Holmgren" and give it to him just so he has the proof that I'm worth every penny"- JC
I think you're 100% right about that. I don't think anyone was salivating over Al Gore enough to take out Bush but I can really see Obama taking a bullet in hopes to get McCain in if it worked like that. The hyperbole/bickering/partisanship/vitriol is higher right now than I can ever remember it being and higher than I hope it ever gets again.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Quote: The hyperbole/bickering/partisanship/vitriol is higher right now than I can ever remember it being and higher than I hope it ever gets again.
It seems to be on an ever-increasing crescendo since the end of GW Bush/start of Clinton....actually, damn near since the announcement of "A New WOrld Order".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
The older I get, the more I want to abandon politics.
It's much simpler to view life as I see it in front of me --- I help folks when they're in need, until they refuse to help themselves.
I abhor violence.
I don't trust any person or entity who isn't motivated to enrich the community around them. Those who attempt to siphon rather than enrich aren't trustworthy IMO.
Quote: It seems to be on an ever-increasing crescendo since the end of GW Bush/start of Clinton....actually, damn near since the announcement of "A New WOrld Order".
I've noticed it too... from about the same time.
What do you think is at the heart of all this? I mean, I'm pretty moderate for the most part, and I sometmies feel like I've been left out of the party because I don't want to call folks names and belittle them for their views. I ususally try to respectfully disagree, while outlining my reasons. As often as not, I'm put in the crosshairs and fired upon.
That hasn't happened here at DT, by the way. I've enjoyed mutual respect from almost all posters since my first days... but I get it elsewhere, and see it everywhere.
To be truthful, it's one of the main reasons I started this thread in the first place... to maybe get some background in a community that I feel welcome in.
I wouldn't have dreamed of trying this elsewhere... too nasty and dangerous, you know?
I fully believe that a fair part of it is completely orchestrated by political strategists. I could probably never prove it, just as nobody could ever convince me otherwise. It can be extremely useful to both sides to get folks worked up over the innocuous.... and all you need is a well written article full of circumstance and innuendo; then you can sit back and watch things fly.
The rest of it, I feel, is purely the result of the media - whether by intent or reaction to causation: the advent of the 24 hour news-cycle and the resultant shoddy, "drive by" journalism; a.k.a. "Yellow" journalism, a.k.a. Tabloid journalism.
The style is nothing new, but with the first Gulf War, CNN and the 24-hour newsroom arrived in force... leaving a LOT of the established news lot playing catch up.
Quote: Frank Luther Mott (1941) defines yellow journalism in terms of five characteristics:[1] 1. scare headlines in huge print, often of minor news 2. lavish use of pictures, or imaginary drawings 3. use of faked interviews, misleading headlines, pseudo-science, and a parade of false learning from so-called experts 4. emphasis on full-color Sunday supplements, usually with comic strips (which is now normal in the U.S.) 5. dramatic sympathy with the "underdog" against the system.
Sound familiar? How often do you see articles posted on here getting folks in a tizzy... but when ya sit down and think about it, it really fits item #1. #2 seems to pretty much describe Glenn Beck and a few others that are popular these days, lol 3. lmao... take your pick. It's like shooting fish in a barrel with a howitzer 4 & 5 are standard media fare, as well as standard propaganda from both sides of the political aisle.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I didn't mean here at this forum when I made my comment, I meant the country in general. Maybe I just didn't notice it before because I was too young to care, but looking at it now, I think its a relatively safe line to take that we're all doomed if we have to rely on the average person to step up in order for this country to be great.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
My parents were more like grandparents in terms of age, and I was the 8th in line (no birth control in those days). They were staunch Roosevelt democrats and lived through the depression. They were union suppoters as well, with my dad having over 35 years of constuction union related work. Being a construction worker is Ohio is not a life that leads to a stable lifestyle. We moved yearly, up down and sideways 17 different places in 21 years with numerous years being below the poverty line. When work dried up, it was unemployment, and welfare when things were really bad. As my Dad neared retirement (at age 72), social security was viewed as a blessing, as it was more stable income. The union retirement plan was a pittance in comparison and nowhere near what social security paid (1/8 of the amount although my Dads cortibutions with the same as social security).
I developed a disdain for unions and the whole company employee relationship. I wanted a more stable life, school became my exit strategy, and I got the grades. Financially that put me in line for college grants, and scholarships. Between the grants and a scholarship, I put myself through school while living at home. There was no job coming out as the country was in a recession, so I took a basic job, and went back to school. The job came about a year later.
I can say that I have never taken a dime of unemployment, and repaid the money that was used to pay for my education countless times over. I made some good decisions along the way, and I will not have to depend on the government for anything when I retire. By most measurables, I have done well.
Quote: The hyperbole/bickering/partisanship/vitriol is higher right now than I can ever remember it being and higher than I hope it ever gets again.
You must have a real short memory.
No kidding. Things were a lot worse here during the Gore/Bush and Kerry/Bush elections.
As far as animosity, the last 3 years or so of W's presidency were probably the worst I've seen.
Bushs last three years are what got me to become more vocal, If you go back and look, you never saw me comment on politics prior to that. I kept my feelings to myself.. In fact, if you check, I didn't say much at all until about a year before this last presidential election.
This board leans conservative if you hadn't noticed,, so I'd have been loved if I'd have opened up during the Bush/Kerry race or Bush/Gore race.
I know that some of you, maybe all of you consider me to be a liberal.. in fact, I'm not. But I'm not a fool either. I'm smart enough to know that good ideas can come from anywhere and anyone.. to turn them away because of thier origin is idiotic... that's why you will see me embrace the fight to keep weapons in the home and also why you will see me leaning towards health Care reform.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Compared to the majority of posters here I'm pretty liberal, even though I lean a tad right of center on nearly everything and a little bit left of center on a few things. Its just that on this board in particular it is VERY right leaning and most people who don't agree with everyone else either stay out of the political threads or post sparingly because of the kind of ignorant crap that gets spewed here in those threads sometimes.
I've personally become more active in the past year or so because I've started to care about things going on in the world more now than I used to. That's from a combination of not having to worry about my ass being blown off anymore as my #1 concern and also me getting a little bit older and more aware of how the decisions the generation before mine have made and are making now are bending my generation and my kids generations over and giving it to us in the back end.
Frankly, it pisses me off that you're ruining the world for me and my children before you check out. Not you specifically Daman, but people of your age group that currently own the most political influence out of all the generations currently breathing. You personally I find myself agreeing with more often than not.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
An interesting story you've shared with us, Charger.
In some ways, it serves as the poster child of what the "welfare" system was supposed to be. Your Pops took assistance when he needed it (for the good of his family), never stopped looking for work, and always took it when he found it. His efforts gave his son a chance to do better than he, which is in my o pinion, the lynchpin feature of The American Dream.
To be truthful, I've never had a problem with the idea of providing a 'safety net' for struggling Americans. The idea behind it was admirable, in my opinion: America is stronger when those who are suffering don't suffer quite as much. Eventually, they re-enter the workforce in better shape than if they'd not received assistance. As with every "system" however, we've seen how even the best of intentions can be perverted by people for their own personal reasons. The welfare system is rife with abuses from both ends, but your family's history shows how it was supposed to work. Textbook. Classic.
Congrats to you, for taking charge of your situation from an early age, and making something of yourself. Kudos also, for keeping your sense of balance all this time. It speaks well toward the reasons that you post as you do. You're the kind of person that makes me proud to call you an American citizen and neighbor.
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