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If the Red skins pick up a couple of OL, suddenly they could dramaticallt improve their protection. Also, McNabb understands protections and can probably save a number of sacks on his own by quicker plays, sliding protections, and moving in the pocket.
That's all a big IF. I see it as a not so mobile 34 yr old QB behind one of the worst OL's in football.
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just clicking...
Impulsiveness could be hampering Holmgren
Posted by Mike Florio on April 8, 2010 11:30 PM ET
Generally speaking, we like the direction in which the Browns are heading. But we've noticed that the new poobah's legendary locker-room impatience could be infecting his approach to team management.
To put it bluntly, Mike Holmgren seems to be a little impulsive.
He basically gave Brady Quinn away to the Broncos, even though a more deliberate approach could have resulted in a bigger trade package if, for example, a team needing a quarterback didn't get the player it wanted in the draft. More importantly, Holmgren opted to execute a plan that included trading for a career clipboard-holder (Seneca Wallace) and paying like a starter a guy who should be holding a clipboard (Jake Delhomme), instead of waiting to see whether the Eagles would reduce their asking price for Donovan McNabb.
So why did Holmgren move so quickly for Wallace? "To take some of the pressure off immediately," Holmgren told Tony Grossi of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. The Browns then paid Delhomme $7 million guaranteed for 2010, which arguably brought the pressure right back.
"I'm not a big one at looking back," Holmgren said. "We did the [deal with Delhomme]. I'm pumped up. I really think this guy is going to bring something for a couple years and hopefully during that process we can find the next guy."
It's hard to argue that McNabb wouldn't have been a better option. And the Redskins got McNabb for the 37th overall pick, along with a fourth-round selection in 2011 that could escalate to a third-rounder. The Browns hold the 38th pick; surely, the Eagles would have accepted that pick if it meant sending McNabb out of the division.
Holmgren definitely disagrees with Philly's approach.
"Just as a general rule, I don't think it's ever a good deal to trade [with a division rival]," Holmgren said. "Clearly, Andy [Reid] has such a great relationship with Donovan that it seemed to me that he did that because he cares for the kid and he wanted to do something for him. Now, Andy's nicer than I am."
Andy might be nicer than his mentor. But Andy also is more patient. When it comes to building a football team, patience could very well be the most important attribute an executive can possess.
In this specific case, patience likely would have resulted in a trade for McNabb, a move that would have been met with as much local euphoria as Holmgren experienced 17 years ago, when his Packers acquired a big-name player from the Eagles who eventually helped bring a championship to Titletown.
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Last edited by mac; 04/09/10 08:45 AM.
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I think MH just wanted to get the present QB distraction behind us as soon as possible. Quinn had no real trade value so why keep him hanging around in hopes that someone may come along and overpay for him?
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The Eagles almost certainly must have figured that McNabb was washed up or something
There isn't a question that McNabb is closer to the end of his career than he is to the beginning, but washed up or close to it.. no, I don't think they believe that. What I think they believe is that it's time to move forward with Kolb. JMO however..
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I think MH just wanted to get the present QB distraction behind us as soon as possible. Quinn had no real trade value so why keep him hanging around in hopes that someone may come along and overpay for him?
He did... plus he did not want to use either a 1 or a 2 on McNabb.
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Exactly Attack.
You don't want to give a high draft pick for a band-aid at QB knowing you're going to be drafting your QB of the future.
Especially when you're re-tooling a team to fit your system. That second round pick is too valuable to trade away for a tempoary fix at that stage of the game.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Exactly Attack.
You don't want to give a high draft pick for a band-aid at QB knowing you're going to be drafting your QB of the future.
Especially when you're re-tooling a team to fit your system. That second round pick is too valuable to trade away for a tempoary fix at that stage of the game.
jmho
Didn't McNabb have some say in where he went? I mean, if I were a quarterback with just a couple years in the tank and they called me in and said "You're going to the Browns.", well they might as well say "Donovan, we're going to toss you into this big tree chipper... It's not as bad as it sounds, really.". Being a celebrity QB in Cleveland is not the coolest gig around.
I say get the team relatively stable and then plug in a QB. If a great one falls to us in the draft then we should take him but I just don't see the need to panic for one yet. The reality is everyone will start screaming "If we had a QB we'd be invincible!" this year no matter who's under center. I'm all in favor of no celebrity QB this year. As long as he's able to move the chains and not single handedly throw games away I'll be more or less happy.
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It's been reported somewhere that he didn't want to go to the Raiders.. And he was said to be wanting to go to the Redskins.. I have no idea if any of that is accurate or true at all..
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I've heard multiple talking heads in the media saying he would have flat out retired before going to the Raiders.
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I think MH just wanted to get the present QB distraction behind us as soon as possible. Quinn had no real trade value so why keep him hanging around in hopes that someone may come along and overpay for him?
He did... plus he did not want to use either a 1 or a 2 on McNabb.
Yep.
For a little while I kept thinking that if MH had held off on picking up Delhomme, we would have reached a window of opportunity between the time the Eagles said they'd take a high 2nd and Rogers getting busted at the airport that we might have been able to put together a deal that got us McNabb.
But I quickly thought, who in their right mind would draft a player as high up as us in the 2nd round, if they knew for a FACT that player would only contribute somewhat solidly for 2, maybe 3 seasons?
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Maybe I really should be a writer/sports journalist so I can help somewhat restore the profession to how it's supposed to be done. I say that because I like writing and because this is just another one of those articles by Florio that makes me roll my eyes, let out a low, rumbling sigh, and yell for him to STHU. Quote:
It's hard to argue that McNabb wouldn't have been a better option. And the Redskins got McNabb for the 37th overall pick, along with a fourth-round selection in 2011 that could escalate to a third-rounder. The Browns hold the 38th pick; surely, the Eagles would have accepted that pick if it meant sending McNabb out of the division.
 Yeah it should be top priority with as many glaring needs as we have to give up a 2nd rounder and probable conditional 3rd rounder for our 2-year band-aid at quarterback. He's a good QB but McNabb gets too much love and I wouldn't give up that much for him.
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Andy might be nicer than his mentor. But Andy also is more patient. When it comes to building a football team, patience could very well be the most important attribute an executive can possess.
Okay. So in building our football team, we need to be patient. Umm, how is jumping the gun and trading away picks for a 34-year old QB going to come across as patient? That to me would say, "Must win now".
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To put it bluntly, Mike Holmgren seems to be a little impulsive.
I think Florio suffers from short-man syndrome. Someone get him a step stool because he can't quite reach the straws...
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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I hear everyone saying that the reason the Eagles traded McNabb to the Redskins because that's where he wanted to go. I don't think so. Here's the real reason:
Redskins pick #37
Raiders pick #39
Bills pick #41
Which one would you take?
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I don't understand why this guy is making an issue out of what we paid Delhomme this year. This season is uncapped so it is irrelevant to everyone not named Randy Lerner how much Delhomme makes.
I like how he also did not mention that teams interested in Quinn may have turned to other options at Qb had the Browns waited and we could have ended up with less on the table after the draft. It's a gamble either way.
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Took the words out of my mouth. Knee jerk Give away "trade" of Quinn for a ham sandwich...Curious overpay of the Spent Jake Delhomme , where if we just waited till the draft. I TOTALLY agree. If we had spent a #2 on McNabb instead of the two junks we have have we would not be on Code Red needing a QB. I totally agree with the Florio piece and agree as well it flies in the face of the consensus lemming opinions that Quinn was a nothing and it was a good deal It was rash and impulsive and we got NUTHIN! And i totally agree that with McNabb we would have an excellent QB who could tutor the next QB. We do not have even serviceable and we are again strapped by having to fill this crater created by this Impulsive move. i also TOTALLY agree that by waiting( I knew Philly was INSANE to think they could command a #1 pick for mcnabb) But if we bided our time we may get him and have a real QB to bridge the gap. As it is for Holmgrens rashness, we have no Quinn and got nothing for him ( Hillis, what a joke) we have only prayers that Jake is not as bad as he looked his last 12 starts( even his former head coach would not vouch for that) and a journeyman Wallace with nothing in reserve. Maybe mcNabb could have served a mentor for Quinn. Florio's article is %100 spot on correct. 
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Holmgren has gone on record saying he didn't want to trade a high draft pick for a QB who would not be a long term solution. I agree with him. Why spend a high draft pick so we can win 8-9 games instead of 6-7 and be stuck not upgrading the overall talent for the long haul?
McNabb is better than Jake. However, Jake only cost $$. McNabb cost more $$ + multiple draft picks (#2 this year and #3 next year).
Florio is the impatient one here. Holmgren is willing to be patient and find our QB of the future even if that means waiting for him (and building up the team while we wait). He is not willing to sacrifice the long term to get a better short term fix. And yet, Florio calls Holmgren impatient.
side note:
Seneca has played his entire career for the Seahawks. call him a career backup, but playing for 2 NFL teams in your career doesn't make you a journeyman. add in the fact that he's always had the same boss (Holmgren) except for last season and it's clear that he's done his job (backup QB) well enough to be kept for that long.
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And i totally agree that with McNabb we would have an excellent QB who could tutor the next QB.
McNabb is not a QB tutor. He wants to play as long as he can (and make as much money as he can) why train the guy who will eventually take over your spot. I don't know if he "tutored" Kolb, but if he did, that didn't work out too well for him.
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i also TOTALLY agree that by waiting( I knew Philly was INSANE to think they could command a #1 pick for mcnabb) But if we bided our time we may get him and have a real QB to bridge the gap.
I don't know if you read the article that Florio based his article on. But Holmgren said this, "The only way I was going to take all those early draft picks in rounds 1, 2 and 3 and use them would be for a young draft choice that I thought could be the quarterback for the next 15 years," he said. "Otherwise, we have too many needs that those picks are going to help us with."
So even if we did wait, Holmgren still wouldn't have used the 2nd rounder for McNabb. And even if he wanted to, Washington still had to better pick. Also, some say the Eagles had ulterior motives in trading McNabb to the Redskins. They traded him there so that the Redskins couldn't trade for Bradford who would be there franchise QB for the next 15 years.
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As it is for Holmgrens rashness, we have no Quinn and got nothing for him ( Hillis, what a joke)
I agree. If we waited we probably could have gotten more for Quinn. But as people said at the time we had to either get rid of him or start him. People (like you) were always going to favor Quinn no matter how he played during games. Bring in Delhomme. Trade Quinn so our new QB doesn't have to look over his shoulder.
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we have only prayers that Jake is not as bad as he looked his last 12 starts( even his former head coach would not vouch for that)
Right. Even his former coach, who released him, said he will not return to his previous form. Why would he? Imagine this. You just release your QB. Then someone comes up to you and asks, "Is he done?" And you reply, "No he's got a lot of good football left. I think he can lead a team to the Super Bowl again." He has to say that he doesn't know if he will be good again. If he doesn't say that, then why'd you release him?
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Maybe mcNabb could have served a mentor for Quinn.
Yeah. That would've worked. After McNabb's first pick you would have been screaming, "McNabb is worse than an old box of oatmeal. Put Quinn in now, we haven't even given him a chance."
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Florio's article is %100 spot on correct.
These words have never been typed or spoken before.
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agreed.
the money isn't even a factor considering there is no cap and if lerner is ok with it, we shouldn't care. 7 million, 12 million, 5 dollars, lerner approved it and there is no way it has any impact on our team this year.
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Wonder if we should calculate how much per TO the browns paid Delhomme this season.
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Wonder if we should calculate how much per TO the browns paid Delhomme this season.
$/Time out???????
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Maybe mcNabb could have served a mentor for Quinn.
BQ has had three years in the NFL, he no longer needs a mentor, he needs an NFL arm.
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Maybe mcNabb could have served a mentor for Quinn.
BQ has had three years in the NFL, he no longer needs a mentor, he needs an NFL arm.
You should have just left your post empty and have your signature be enough to tell AJ what you thought of his proposal.
...either that or reference a type of sandwich.
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Took the words out of my mouth. Knee jerk Give away "trade" of Quinn for a ham sandwich...Curious overpay of the Spent Jake Delhomme , where if we just waited till the draft. I TOTALLY agree. If we had spent a #2 on McNabb instead of the two junks we have have we would not be on Code Red needing a QB.
akronj...hang on now...I simply posted the article without comment.
My take is... at the time the Browns were inquiring, (early Feb), Andy Reid was not willing to part with McNabb or Kolb. Was it a ploy to drive up the asking price for both QBs?...possibly. Or, maybe Reid had no intention of trading either QB at that time.
From early Feb when the Browns first inquired, to March 13...had Andy Reid said give us your 2nd round pick this year and a 3rd or 4th rounder next year and McNabb is yours...Holmgren and Heckert very likely might have jumped on the deal.
I read that the Eagles were looking for a 1st round pick for McNabb and 2-1st round picks for Kolb..."IF" they decided to move either QB.
Andy Reid had the luxury of waiting as long as he wanted to...the Browns did not. With Heckert as our GM, the Browns likely had a good idea what it was going to take to land McNabb or Kolb. (IMO, we wanted Kolb more than McNabb) and the Browns were not willing to trade our 1st round pick for McNabb.
Andy Reid was going to hold out as long as he could, because if no deal materialized, they go into next season, sound at the QB position, again.
Delhomme became available and the Browns signed him March 13. Anyone who believes the Browns should have passed on Delhomme and waited to see if they could sign McNabb or Kolb is not being realistic. How many draft picks did the Browns give up for Delhomme?...ZERO!
The Browns may have done a deal with the Eagles similar to the Redskins deal but that deal did not materialize until nearly a month after Delhomme became available. Had the Browns waited, they might end up with no Delhomme and no McNabb...then what?
Holmgren and Heckert did what was best for the Browns at the time...end of story.
As for Quinn...the Browns got "market value" for him...simple as that. I wish he had been a better QB for the Browns, but he wasn't.
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I agree Mac....it's easy to look back and say this or that, but the Browns had to act rather than risk ending up with nothing.
Also....though the Eagles could do what they wanted, I think it is possible they told McNabb they were going to trade him and tried to work with a team to where McNabb might have wanted to go.....maybe McNabb said please don't trade me there....and the eagles decided to explore other options before pulling a deal with Cleveland.....I don't think Philly was overly concerned Cleveland was the only team that would take McNabb once they knew we weren't going to pay the price that was initially asked.
Again, I don't think that was a big factor if a factor at all, but I don't rule it out.
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Holmgren admitted in a teleconference with fans he moved Quinn because a Coach and a QB have to get along: he finally admitted what i always thought Mangini wanted Quinn gone so he (MH) had to move fast. fast but NOT smart. Rash is what the author stated and rash is exactly what I agree with 100%. No way the eagles were going to get a #1 pick for Mcnabb but instead of waiting and getting a top QB we went cheap( not in $$). But in talent. I think jumping on a broke down car because better transportation might cost more in (picks and $$) misses the obvious: Jake Delhomme was beloved by the fans and his Coach in Carolina: they cut him because his biggest cheerleader thought he was DONE: the guy who had coached him for years saw him plummet and we are now to believe his former Coach was wrong who put his job on the line for the young signal caller now handed the job and SHOVING Jake out the door. And you think spending a #2 by waiting on McNabb, one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL the last 9 years was not, well, as the writer says, maybe a less "rash" move.
I only wish I could agree with the rest of you. I wish i could see signing jake as a positive and he has something in the tank to defeat the likes of the Steelers, ravens and bengals. I wish i could pretend that a QB who has tossed 24 ints and only 8 TDs was a smart move and dumping Quinn who had 8 Tds and 3 ints in 8 games was a better move. I agree i wish i could agree but that may require a trip back to Amsterdam and psychotropic mushrooms to share such a reality.
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Holmgren admitted in a teleconference with fans he moved Quinn because a Coach and a QB have to get along: he finally admitted what i always thought Mangini wanted Quinn gone so he (MH) had to move fast.
akj...so Quinn did not like Mangini?
I have no doubt that Mangini did not like Quinn's play.
Maybe Quinn and Mangini had an adversarial relationship that could not be repaired??
Bottom line...had Quinn produced when he had his opportunities, it's very likely he would still be here.
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No way the eagles were going to get a #1 pick for McNabb but instead of waiting and getting a top QB we went cheap( not in $$).
akj...there is no way "anyone" could say the Eagles would not be able to get a 1st round draft pick for McNabb, back in Feb. You can make your claims, "after the fact" but hindsight is always 20/20.
Reid played the McNabb situation the way any competent NFL manager would, knowing the Eagles had something "many teams" were showing interest in. He waited and played the deal out to get a deal everyone involved, could live with.
If there is one thing everyone should learn from the McNabb trade, take what you read and hear and toss it out the window. What is said by players and managers/coaches is meant for public consumption, many times with a purpose we fans are not aware of or understand.
We may never know all the reasons the McNabb deal went down the way it did but to claim Holmgren should have waited...that is pure crap.
With Heckert as the Browns GM and the fact that he left the Eagles on good terms, I have little doubt that he had a better read on what the Eagles were going to do with their QB situation than most of the NFL teams.
For all you know, McNabb and Reid may have had a relationship so tight that if McNabb said "no" to playing in Cleveland, that Reid would not honor his request...which might be exactly what happened.
Maybe the Eagles did not make up their mind on their QB situation until the day the deal was announced?
Again, forget what has been said publicly by McNabb saying he would play anywhere...file that along with Andy Reid telling everyone McNabb was his QB and would remain his QB.
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I think jumping on a broke down car because better transportation might cost more in (picks and $$) misses the obvious: Jake Delhomme
So you don't like Jake Delhomme and you think he is all washed up...you might be right...but you could be wrong, too.
You are missing the big picture though...are the Browns going to the Super Bowl this year?
OR, are the Browns rebuilding the team so they can contend for a Super Bowl in a couple of years?
The point is, regardless of who is the Browns starting QB this year, this team is not competing for a Super Bowl. There are way too many area's that need to be fixed before the Browns will be able to compete. That very well could have been a reason McNabb ended up in Wash...we just don't know.
The Browns had a plan for the QB position and Delhomme fits that plan perfectly. Holmgren wanted a veteran QB, for leadership and to help a young prospect develop.
As for Delhomme being a broken down car, as you say...I remember when the same was said of Curt Warner, when he went to the Cardinals to play backup to Matt Leinart. Funny how one never knows how a vet. will play when they change teams. Sometimes that broken down car gets a new motor and a wax job and they are back in the race, playing like a pro-bowler again.
But I look at Delhomme from a worst case scenario concerning his play. If he is done, Seneca Wallace steps up while Delhomme plays back up and helps to teach the young QB the Browns draft.
Try to keep in mind, the Browns are not ready for the Super Bowl, regardless of who is playing QB.
akronjoe...I think you might be suffering from a serious case of homerism.
When Holmgren was hired, I gave some advice to my fellow dawgs...DONT FALL IN LOVE WITH ANYONE ON OUR ROSTER...except for JT and Mack.
I knew there would be a lot of changes and they were needed changes if the Browns are ever going to compete for the playoffs and a super bowl.
Joe, I think you were in love with Quinn and you are really pizzed that Holmgren set him walking.
Now the McNabb thing goes down and you want to blame Holmgren for not waiting to get a "chance" at bringing him to Cleveland.
Time to look at the big picture and realize, we are a team that is rebuilding and if you fell in love with certain players, chances are you might be happy if they are cut or traded.
You can continue to play the hurt fan role or get on board the Holmgren/Heckert/Mangini bus, but keeping in mind, no one is going to run the Browns exactly the way we think we would.
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Ok we agree Quinn and Mangini had irreconcilable differences. he did produce well vs Detroit and SD and then the OC went back to the dubious strategy of leaving no TE help over the mummy at RT and Vickers was often gone from backfield pass blocking. I have no idea why you remove what worked so well in those two games. Quinn went back to running for his life after 2 seconds yet I won't bore you with such petty details as your mind is set. So yes Quinn did nothing.
I like how you mock the crystal ball. It was just a strong opinion I carried back then and now. No way someone gives up a #1 pick for a 33yo QB that seemed an easy prediction, sorry it was not so obvious to you. The eagles tried to create talk and chatter about Mcnabb hoping another Matt Millin caliber GM may give them a top pick. But yeah that was an easy no brainer.
Now i add a coment on My Jake Delhomme predictions like the previous McNabb assertion it is again only based on probability not any great acumen. the PROBABILITY of the EAGLES hoodwinking a team for a #1 pick for a 33yo QB I saw as extremely low, below 10% low. the probability that a coach who loved Jake probably wishes he took that clipboard job back home. The probability that an immobile QB who has tossed 24 int in his last 12 contests playing against active aggressive top defenses in our division doing well is well at best, maybe 20%, the probability of him getting mauled and injured within his first four starts is well maybe 40%. I wish I could believe this was a good move but probability says it is not only poor but possibly disastrous.
Your final analysis has your best sentence and has merit, as I agree that I started to see some good things in Quinn and hoped that after showing real patience we would stick with him and gather the dividends. We won't but Denver, of all teams, Denver will. I see that probability about 45-50% that Quinn pays BIG dividends. You must agree that we, as browns fans, have not seen a decent QB since Kosar in this town so forgive any glimpses that just maybe this kid can be special( SD, Detroit games) and you might see a rainbow after a 17 year storm. Now in Seneca and Jake I just see more hard rain, I wish that were not true. After this season both Jake and the fat man( Mangini) will be history so I will be sure "not to fall in love" with those two. . I can hope for Andy Ried whom I predict about 60% likely to be scapegoated and fired after turning over the talented Eagles to a two win career starter. My guess he was partly Forced to by unruly management and a NEW GM. Now that would be a HUGE rainbow!!!
Oh traded McNabb to your Division rival who has struggled with a true mediocrity now having a star is absolutely 100% insane. takes no crystal ball to see that.
The odds with the same level of WR talent, staying pat at RB and Jake and Seneca leading the charge of us winning more than 5 is about 25% winning four about 50%. The odds of Mangini KEEPING his job with four or five wins= 0%.
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he did produce well vs Detroit and SD and then the OC went back to the dubious strategy of leaving no TE help over the mummy at RT and Vickers was often gone from backfield pass blocking. I have no idea why you remove what worked so well in those two games.
after the SD game, we went on a 4 game winning streak and Jerome Harrison almost broke the single game rushing record.
and you are complaining?
http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/schedule?team=CLE&id=1050
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Ok we agree Quinn and Mangini had irreconcilable differences.
Prove it.. and please,, don't say it's because of Holmgren stating the QB and HC have to get along,,, that doesn't prove anything other than the obvious that the HC and QB need to get along,,
However,, 4 superbowls later, Bradshaw and Noll didn't always get along,,
The difference is, Bradshaw was a damn fine QB,. something that I'm willing to bet you that Quinn will never be,,
As for a comparison between Noll and Mangini,, Noll was one of the greatest ever,.,, Manginis head coaching career is 4 years long,, I think he needs more time to see how it plays out,,,,
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he did produce well vs Detroit and SD and then the OC went back to the dubious strategy of leaving no TE help over the mummy at RT and Vickers was often gone from backfield pass blocking. I have no idea why you remove what worked so well in those two games.
after the SD game, we went on a 4 game winning streak and Jerome Harrison almost broke the single game rushing record.
and you are complaining?
http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/schedule?team=CLE&id=1050
Not only that, but let's not forget that we're talking about Detroit and San Diego, not exactly the greatest of pass defenses * and if I remember, the San Diego D was really banged up in the secondary and had to start some really bad safeties.
you had a good run Hank.
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Ok we agree Quinn and Mangini had irreconcilable differences.
Prove it.. and please,, don't say it's because of Holmgren stating the QB and HC have to get along,,, that doesn't prove anything other than the obvious that the HC and QB need to get along,,
However,, 4 superbowls later, Bradshaw and Noll didn't always get along,,
The difference is, Bradshaw was a damn fine QB,. something that I'm willing to bet you that Quinn will never be,,
As for a comparison between Noll and Mangini,, Noll was one of the greatest ever,.,, Manginis head coaching career is 4 years long,, I think he needs more time to see how it plays out,,,,
I agree some posters sometimes boggle the mind. When team president Mike Holmgren answers a fan concerned about the Brady Quinn trade and Finaly admits in saying a QB and Coach have to see eye to eye( one can INFER they were not doing so). When a Coach and a player do not see eye to eye there is a difference of opinion that Holmgren adds the player has to be moved. I know this may be a difficult jump but You may safely assume that Mike Holmgrens words...go read it on the forum of the official website..that the coach and player did not get along and Quinn had to be moved. I guess it is true in your case you can lead a horse to water....can you finish this or do i need to spell that out as well?
I am glad you brought up the Bradshaw analogy as it further illustrates my point. Bradshaw started very rocky. he lost his job for a time to Terry Hanratty and then in 1974 he was unseated by Joe Gilliam and demanded to be traded...but the Steeler Coach hung in with him. Quinn has never had a coach that stuck by him until Now, in Denver he will have that. Noll was a patient head coach Mangini is a head for about another 16 games. Imagine what would have been the Steeler dynasty had Noll been as rash with his QB?
Stomp your feet and mock Quinn and check back to me in December when Seneca and Jake implode and we finish another 4 or 5 win season and Mangini gets the boot. Then We get to collect on another stupid teams move and hire Andy Reid as Philly is sure to scapegoat him for the Mcnabb jettison. Thanks for reminding me how a real coach behaves with talent as Bradshaw was almost done in Pittsburgh if not for the patience of Noll. Had he ceded to trade demands by his player because they did not always see eye to eye my guess we are not talking about 4 rings. Oh I might add those were Bradshaw's words in case you want me to prove that as well.
Also Terry was not always a damn fine qb. he was impulsive and turned over the ball a lot and that is why Noll would often sit him down but he turned out to be. one thing Bradshaw has that Quinn does not is a rocket arm but neither did Joe Montana. But we will see what patient coaching will do for Quinn, too bad his fans have to see him do it in Denver and not for the team he loved. To his detractors and i can safely assume you are one as you act as if he personally molested you, his Denver success will prove nothing..again the horse and water analogy...
Last edited by akronjoe; 04/12/10 04:15 PM.
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akjoe...I will post one sentence again, hoping you understand what the NFL is all about...
"Bottom line...had Quinn produced when he had his opportunities, it's very likely he would still be here."
Don't let your homerism for Quinn affect your attitude toward Holmgren and the players he and Heckert have brought in to help the Browns rebuild into a contender.
It is so easy to pickup on...you can't hide it...it will show up every time you post. Try to be a Browns fan, instead of just a Quinn fan...and if you can't do that...Quinn is in Denver.
Me..I'm a Browns fan and I'm buying into this management team, knowing we finally have someone running the franchise who knows football and is willing to make the tough moves now, knowing the ultimate goal is not pleasing all Browns fans and the local media, but doing what is needed to build the Browns into a contender.
I will be realistic knowing it will take two to three years to transition from a 5-11 team to a playoff team.
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"Bottom line...had Quinn produced when he had his opportunities, it's very likely he would still be here."
That absolutely is the bottom line.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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What the hell is wrong with you,,, That don't prove anything.. stop with the freakin nonsense already will ya..
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akjoe...I will post one sentence again, hoping you understand what the NFL is all about...
"Bottom line...had Quinn produced when he had his opportunities, it's very likely he would still be here."
Don't let your homerism for Quinn affect your attitude toward Holmgren and the players he and Heckert have brought in to help the Browns rebuild into a contender.
It is so easy to pickup on...you can't hide it...it will show up every time you post. Try to be a Browns fan, instead of just a Quinn fan...and if you can't do that...Quinn is in Denver.
Me..I'm a Browns fan and I'm buying into this management team, knowing we finally have someone running the franchise who knows football and is willing to make the tough moves now, knowing the ultimate goal is not pleasing all Browns fans and the local media, but doing what is needed to build the Browns into a contender.
I will be realistic knowing it will take two to three years to transition from a 5-11 team to a playoff team.
Ohh O agree lets prop out the tried and true...If you were a BROWNS fan you would let it go..Quinn is in Denver... hey bubba, I have been a fan since 1964. I hate it when we do mind numbing stupid things then have people like you trot out that tired line. It is precisely Why I even take the time. I hate that Quinn will develop in Denver of all places. And I think we are whistlin past the graveyard with our QB options. But what I LOVE, is IF I am right, we will be in line to hire our first top Coach since Marty, for I am sure that Philly front office will need to scapegoat him for the McNabb debacle.
So it is a win win for me. If our two Mamelukes at QB somehow produce and we win, I am happy( surprised as all #ell, but happy.) If they flop like I believe they will, EM is toast and we get Andy Reid and then I am estatic. Since the return this team has been run with crushing stupidity, not being "On Board" with that makes me, not a fan, huh, Mac? Yeah right.
  
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Andy Reid will not be fired. He is the Eagles front office. He will get at least two seasons with Kolb before the Eagles even think about firing him.
The guy that will be on our radar is Gruden.
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They already have their scapegoat in place, and it's not Reid. It's their new GM, Roseman. He was hired from within yet only has one year of player personnel experience. It' won't be Reid. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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They already have their scapegoat in place, and it's not Reid.
It's their new GM, Roseman. He was hired from within yet only has one year of player personnel experience.
It' won't be Reid.
Well lets play the percentages with the unruly Philly faithful. I 100% aggree the logical choice, the one most responsible would be the gent you named, after all He should bear the consequences for the move that will have AT LEAST a 50% shot to Blow up in Reid face. But Emotions as they are, as you can attest by the Quinn debates here, emotions most often trump logic in the minds of ANGRY EMOTIONAL fans. Philly a perennial playoff team plummets to the Cellar of the NFC east and you think Reid is safe? I have three beans for a cow you might like as well. I stand by what I say, Philly implodes and the townsmen with pitchforks demand the head of Reid: he is the visible face of always the brides maid never the bride...he will get the Marty Schottenhiemer boost out of town and Philly will have their scapegoat. Welcome to Cleveland.
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But Emotions as they are, as you can attest by the Quinn debates here, emotions most often trump logic in the minds of ANGRY EMOTIONAL fans.
that is awful big of you to admit that of yourself.
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I'll stand by my logic and I guess we'll just have to see how this all pans out. To me, it's a little more than sheer coincidence that you hire what looks to be unqualified GM in the very same year you let go of a ton of veterans and basicly start a re-build. I don't think that was just an accident. So yes, I'll consider Reid safe at least through the next two seasons. What I think you may be missing here, is that the organization and the media have a year to villify this new GM and make him the focuse of the fan base ire. Reid has the perfect alliby with this new GM in charge. The owner isn't simply a fan who does everything based on raw emotion. He'll be the one calling the shots, not the fan base. We'll see.......................... 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But Emotions as they are, as you can attest by the Quinn debates here, emotions most often trump logic in the minds of ANGRY EMOTIONAL fans.
that is awful big of you to admit that of yourself.
I agree angry emotionalism is something you exclude yourself from and how prescient of you to find that so true in another poster. Thanks for the heads up as i had my points in the argument, however the illogical bashing of Quinn will be made comical by his FINALLY having a coach in his corner. lets see how you mock the kid after a stint in Denver while we are stuck with Jake the mistake and Senaca.
Hoo boy then who will be left to bash. I sure hope we don't trade the farm to move up for a QB as last year we gave up the farm for a bunch of scrubs and a center.
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