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I hate "payroll."
Not if you are on the "roll" end.  
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Well at least we have a back-up center now. Maybe Heckert was reading my posts harping on the need? Eric is younger than Hank. Eric has had some starting experience, but not as much as Hank. Maybe a lateral move? I'm glad we filled this roster spot.He still has to make the final 53 man roster,but we have at least established the floor.Looks like the FO is making certain the floor is higher than before just looking at these off-season moves. now, LET''S DRAFT THAT STUD GUARD, MR. HECKERT PS, Eric did not play last year.........
Last edited by Line Judge; 04/08/10 12:24 PM.
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Eric Ghiacuc couldn't even secure a starting job with the Chiefs last year.
He got push around,upside down and backwards with the Bengals.
Its no conindence that as soon the Bengals started Kyle Cook,their running game started to click.
Horrible choice for a backup. Doesn't get any punch out of his stance and when a DT or NG gets their hands on him,he's toast.
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There ya' go,...he's probably just camp cannon fodder.
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I like the signing of Ghichuic. Another solid move to ensure that we aren't drafting to fill needs but rather taking the BPA, especially in the later rounds.
We would have been better off keeping Hank. Hank was hands down better than Grichuic, and I can't imagine Eric will be more of a help with the young guys than Hank would have been.
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There ya' go,...he's probably just camp cannon fodder.
yep, he still has to make the team in September
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Thats the one thing that would push Hank slightly over Eric.
The one thing that pushed Hank way over Eric was his play on the field against both the run and the pass bro.
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Well at least we have a back-up center now. Maybe Heckert was reading my posts harping on the need?
Eric is younger than Hank.
Eric has had some starting experience, but not as much as Hank.
Maybe a lateral move?
I'm glad we filled this roster spot.He still has to make the final 53 man roster,but we have at least established the floor.Looks like the FO is making certain the floor is higher than before just looking at these off-season moves.
now, LET''S DRAFT THAT STUD GUARD, MR. HECKERT
BTW, Eric has not made it through training camp yet.
PS, Eric did not play last year.........
I find myself this time to be in some agreement with you Line. And while this guy is Younger I agree it seems a lateral move so why move players for the sake of movement. As fans we have no idea why Fraley was moved but When will this organization start behaving like the Steelers and Ravens in KEEPING their own players and developing them. Will the player we pick with a late third be as good as Wimbley, who knows.
Will this guy help our new center or be a TOTAL liability if pressed to play. This may be like dumping Shaffer for the far worse St. Clair. If Mack get hurt Fraley gets pushed around but generally is in there scrapping if this guy gets in there is he a horrid liability. Keven Shaffer was a slow RT and then we signed an abysmally slow RT. I would love for a change we only make a move when it is positive. If this was to save $$$, well we saved money dumping Shaffer for the FAR worse St. Clair.
Ok we should have a boatload of salary space. we have trimmed the salaries in the past year of DA, Winslow, Edwards, Schaffer, Corey Williams, Stallworthless, Wimbley, Jamal Lewis, Fraley, Sean Jones..we have added a BLOATED salary for Jake " the mistake". Will we move Sean Rogers and DQ to save more $$$$. Did this move improve us? i don't see that clearly, there must be other factors I add salary as a possibility.
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maybe it's strictly a money thing with Hank.. not sure what his contract called for, but I bet it's higher than this new guy... Just a guess however.
Hank would have made 1.6 million this year.
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My bet is he asked to be released after they told him he wasn't going to get the money,....
Why would you desire to pay a b-up starting money or even in that neighborhood?
Has anyone considered that he has experience playing with Stieny? As ar far a b-up C he has the starts under his belt, 42 with Cincy and is over three years younger than Fraley.
Just sayin' 
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I respectfully dissagree.  Eric was solid against the run Not great but solid. He lacked alot in pass protection. Very below average. Hank was solid in pass protection and sorely lacked the push in the run game. Again IMO on what i have seen of Hank. I have seen little on Eric but have done some scouting on him...not Bengal boards or such.  Eric started alot of games to SUCK like some on here have stated. He has his positives just like Hank. I love Hank as a backup center and guard and i loved his determination and i hated his release..... Age figured in i feel.  Me personally....i never was impressed with his abilities on the field yet i loved his determination and agressiveness. Still a verticle move IMO but as i and several others have posted.....Eric hasn't made this team yet. I feel the draft will determine the direction we go and who afterwards is expendable by who or who we dont get. 
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Eric Ghiaciuc
From Wikipedia
Eric Ghiaciuc No. 77 San Diego Chargers
Center
Personal information
Date of birth: May 28, 1981 (1981-05-28) (age 28)
Place of birth: Oxford, Michigan
Height: 6 ft 4 in (1.93 m) Weight: 303 lb (137 kg)
Career information
College: Central Michigan
NFL Draft: 2005 / Round: 4 / Pick: 119
Debuted in 2005 for the Cincinnati Bengals
Career history
As player:
Cincinnati Bengals (2005–2008)
Kansas City Chiefs (2009)*
San Diego Chargers (2009–present)
*Offseason and/or practice squad only
Career NFL statistics as of 2008
Games played 48
Games started 42
Fumble recoveries 2
Stats at NFL.com
Eric M. Ghiaciuc [GUY-check] (born May 28, 1981 in Oxford, Michigan) is an American football center for the San Diego Chargers of the National Football League. He was drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals in the fourth round of the 2005 NFL Draft. He played college football at Central Michigan.
Ghiaciuc has also been a member of the Kansas City Chiefs.
Early years
While attending Oxford High School, Ghiaciuc was a three-sport standout in football, wrestling, and track and field. In football, he won All-League, All-County, All-Metro, All-State honors, and he was ranked No.37 prospect by The Detroit News, and No.47 by the Detroit Free Press. In wrestling, he was the state heavyweight champion.
College career
At Central Michigan University in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, Ghiaciuc was part of an offensive line which generated 105 touchdowns in a three-year stint. He was redshirted in 2000, saw limited action in 2001, then took over as starting center in 2002, starting for the next 37 games for the Chippewas. He was an Industrial Education major who graduated with an impressive 3.30 GPA.
Professional career
Cincinnati Bengals
Ghiaciuc was selected by the Cincinnati Bengals in the fourth round (119th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft. He made his NFL playing debut on October 9 at the Jacksonville Jaguars. Ghiaciuc's college teammate, Adam Kieft, was drafted in the fifth round. Paul Alexander, the Bengals offensive line coach and assistant head coach, had also attended Central Michigan University.
Kansas City Chiefs
An unrestricted free agent after the 2008 season, Ghiaciuc signed with the Kansas City Chiefs on April 30. He was waived on September 4.
San Diego Chargers
Ghiaciuc was signed by the San Diego Chargers on December 22, 2009 after center Scott Mruczkowski was placed on injured reserve.
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Wasn't Fraley's roster bonus like $1.5 million?
If it was then this guy's total salary should less than that right?
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Never heard of the guy before today...
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Never heard of the guy before today...
Doesn't seem to be too surprising given his history.
With the Bengals for a few years, UFA gets picked up by the Chiefs, gets cut before the season starts.. sits out with no team interested until late december when the Chargers lost a guy to injury then they went out and signed him.. Notice, they didn't seem to want to keep him either..
How many games did he play last year.. 2, 3, maybe 4....
Sounds like someone that they are bringing in to be, as someone else said, Camp Fodder..
For my money, I'd have kept Hank.. And according to Danielle, a few weeks before hank was released, he was told they'd like him to stay..
I don't remember her saying anything about Hank asking to be released or traded.. Could be that it happened, but I don't remember Danielle saying it.
THe question I gotta ask, is there someone we can get in later rounds that would be a decent Olinemen that has both Guard or Center experience from college? That is my guess as to how they handle this.. Cause this guy doesn't sound to solid at all..
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Yep, I'm still lost on why we cut Hank? Still seems like a pretty damn stupid move to me. We need a good backup center and it's not like Hank was breaking the bank. Coupled with a guy who can't make the KC squad, well I suppose we'll just have to label this one creamed corn.
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Report: Cleveland Browns sign former Bengals center Eric Ghiac By Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer April 08, 2010, 12:17PM CLEVELAND -- The Browns have signed former Bengals offensive lineman Eric Ghiaciuc, according to Adam Caplain of Scout.com. Ghiaciuc (pronounced guy-chuck) was a fourth-round draft choice of the Bengals in 2005. In four seasons in Cincinnati, he made 42 starts, mostly at center. He spent time with the Chiefs and Chargers in 2009. Ghiaciuc figures to be the veteran backup center and interior swingman on the Browns' offensive line. They were without a backup center after releasing Hank Fraley and allowing Rex Hadnot to leave in free agency. His signing lessens the pressure of drafting an interior lineman with center experience. The Browns have not acknowledged the signing. • Tennessee safety Eric Berry is visiting the Browns today, according to multiple reports. Berry is a prime contender to be the Browns' first draft pick at No. 7 overall, if he is available. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/report_cleveland_browns_sign_f_1.html
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THe question I gotta ask, is there someone we can get in later rounds that would be a decent Olinemen that has both Guard or Center experience from college? That is my guess as to how they handle this.. Cause this guy doesn't sound to solid at all..
This guy.
Jeff Byers from USC. Started at both guard and center in his USC career. I don't understand why he's not supposed to go earlier.
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I live within 60 miles of Cincy and with them being division rivals I do pay attention to them. Localy we get a lot of coverage on the Bengals down here. My younger siblings are Bengal fans. When I was a kid there "were no Bengals". I always loved football and have been a Browns fan ever since I can remember. When the Bengals came along, I always remained loyal to the Browns! So needless to say, I do get a lot of info on the Bengals and their draft. Every time our game and the Bengals games are on at different times, I watch them because our local coverage is the Bengals. I saw him play a lot. A lot of info from my brother as well. I'm 51 and he's 38. lmao I think he'll be fine in the b-up role. Now if you're talking starter?  lmao
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I respectfully dissagree.
Cool we finally get to disagree on something *reaching for my nail studded club*
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Eric was solid against the run Not great but solid. He lacked alot in pass protection. Very below average.
Agreeing again
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Hank was solid in pass protection and sorely lacked the push in the run game.
*reaching for that club now *
Hank may not have had a great push at the line but he was good at controling his man and taking him in the direction he wanted him to go. He had great technique and he knew his opponents strengths and weakness. I spent a lot of time studying the O-line over the last few years and Hank was way under rated. What I know of Eric comes mostly from his play against the Browns, and I was not impressed.
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Me personally....i never was impressed with his abilities on the field yet i loved his determination and agressiveness.
The more you break down the game film the more you will be impressed by Hank. Not on shear talent but on how effective he is.
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Still a verticle move IMO
Still a step backwards IMO
*Hands Deepsouth the club* your turn LOL
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I don't remember her saying anything about Hank asking to be released or traded
Hank did not asked to be released or traded. It came as a shock to him, and many of us as well 
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Cool we finally get to disagree on something
VERY rare indeed. I guess great minds think alike
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Hank may not have had a great push at the line but he was good at controling his man and taking him in the direction he wanted him to go. He had great technique and he knew his opponents strengths and weakness.
We agree there...cant find nuttin wrong there. I guess that would fall under his intangibles.
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The more you break down the game film the more you will be impressed by Hank. Not on shear talent but on how effective he is.
The effectiveness was from sheer determination and not talent IMO. Hank always outplayed his talent.
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What I know of Eric comes mostly from his play against the Browns,
I am with you there.
He never looked aweful from my memory to the point that i noticed it by his getting beat that it became where i paid it attention (you get all that ). Mostly from what i have gathered is from researching him and reviewing his strengths and weaknesses.
I really like his experience (42 starts i think) so he has or had something at one point. Maybe not starter material even then but as a backup (like Hank was gonna be) seem aweful close.
Its sure funny how i am debating a player that i fell out when i heard he was released. 
I guess the board hitting a slow part till the draft is having a effect on me.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Jeff Byers from USC. Started at both guard and center in his USC career. I don't understand why he's not supposed to go earlier.
I like him too in the later rounds, he had a pretty good SR Bowl week but I doubt we are looking at him...he's a Fraley clone
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Ok, So Byers could fit the mold I'm thinking of.. I don't know much about him so I'll just take your recommendation as is.. But that's what I'm thinking.. either him or someone a lot like him will get drafted in the later rounds and either push the new back up out or at least be more depth.. If that's the plan, sounds pretty good to me... Bring in a guy who may not be great but may be something you could work with to fill a position of need. Then draft one in the later rounds and let the best man win... simple right
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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How do ya feel about WR Mike Williams in the late rounds?
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Hank did not asked to be released or traded. It came as a shock to him, and many of us as well
That's exactly how I remember her saying it on here just after he was cut.
I don't know what's up with that. Maybe we'll find out this year if Hank still has anything in the tank.. He went to St. Louis right.. well, if they draft Bradford, it's gonna be fun to see hank school the kid a little 
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I don't remember her saying anything about Hank asking to be released or traded
Hank did not asked to be released or traded. It came as a shock to him, and many of us as well
This is the part I don't understand. Now it may have been a shock to the Fraley's, but I didn't see it as a shock at all. We drafted Mack to take Hanks place at C with a first round investment.
At that point, it seemed to me that Hank was expendable. At what point he would be gone I didn't know. but it seemed to be in the cards at some point IMO
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This is the part I don't understand. Now it may have been a shock to the Fraley's, but I didn't see it as a shock at all.
While that seems reasonable, Danielle made the statement right here on this board that a few weeks prior to hank being released, he was told they wanted him to stay around.. that he'd be here..
So the shock portion seems to have come from being told all is well and then getting blind sided with a release...
Besides, as a back up center and a back up, sometimes starter for the Browns, I think he was valuable and I gotta say, it's about the only move that the new regime has made that I just don't get it..
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I wasn't shocked either..people need to remember Philly(when Heckert was there) traded him since the starter had supplanted him..so it's not a suprise this group (with Heckert now here)releases him...
I think they want to go younger..and did not want to play the 1.6 bonus due ..talent wise they may figure they weren't going to get anything in the draft(UDFA) that is better..they certainly won't be spending any picks on a backup center.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/08/10 04:03 PM.
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Quote:
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Hank did not asked to be released or traded. It came as a shock to him, and many of us as well
That's exactly how I remember her saying it on here just after he was cut.
I don't know what's up with that. Maybe we'll find out this year if Hank still has anything in the tank.. He went to St. Louis right.. well, if they draft Bradford, it's gonna be fun to see hank school the kid a little
He signed a three year contract with the Rams
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We are just Jonesing for some football bro
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This is the part I don't understand. Now it may have been a shock to the Fraley's, but I didn't see it as a shock at all. We drafted Mack to take Hanks place at C with a first round investment.
At that point, it seemed to me that Hank was expendable. At what point he would be gone I didn't know. but it seemed to be in the cards at some point IMO
It seemed to be in the cards for the 2011 season when Hanks contract was up but not THIS year.
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While that seems reasonable, Danielle made the statement right here on this board that a few weeks prior to hank being released, he was told they wanted him to stay around.. that he'd be here..
B-8
BINGO
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While that seems reasonable, Danielle made the statement right here on this board that a few weeks prior to hank being released, he was told they wanted him to stay around.. that he'd be here..
So the shock portion seems to have come from being told all is well and then getting blind sided with a release...
Besides, as a back up center and a back up, sometimes starter for the Browns, I think he was valuable and I gotta say, it's about the only move that the new regime has made that I just don't get it..
I don't feel H&H planned on him being in that role this year. Don't know but a new regime usually has new plans and a new direction. Can't say for sure.
And I must say that things sometimes evolve in short order with NFL franchises. Let's put it this way, if I feel there's "any chance" a guy will still be on my team if I'm in that FO, I'm going to be positive to that player about him being here. ie.....If no final decision has been made, at that point you still plan on him being here, right?
Here's where I get flamed!
Oh, I know "what she posted". But was that a quote from Hank or was it paraphrased? I mean it was told to Hank one way. Did he quote it word for word to Danielle? Did Danielle quote it word for word from Hank to this board?
I'm sure we all know that almost everything that gets told, the more people it goes through the more it changes. I'm not saying that anyone intended to mislead us, but can any of us be sure that this FO told him that "word for word"?
IMO- Danielle being here is part of the shock and the anger among many posters. She seemed very friendly, very nice. Acted like and fit in to be "one of us". Not snooty or standoffish at all. Some posters then began to feel a sense of familiarity with them. Sort of like you knew them and after all, she was a part of the Dawgtalker family.
So I believe some took it a lot more personal than they would have otherwise. That there was a closeness and a bond with the Fraleys the likes of whitch I had never seen before.
I do understand some being a bit confused. I myself thought Hank got back to the second level pretty well. Considering where we stand at the G position I don't think it helped in that department. But I think this FO has a plan. They have the experience at building a franchise.
So in the end, I still didn't see it as a big surprise. And I've been in management enough to know that a guy is always secure in his job until such time as he's not. Circumstances as they unfold can make that change at any minute.
jmho
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Pit, I tend to agree about some of the disappoinment about Fraley's release being b/c of Danielle's involvement here. She was an inside source too. You don't find one of those every day. And also b/c he came here when our center situation was a train wreck and solidified the position for several years. People remember that kinda thing. My evidence of the above is that few if any in this thread have mentioned that Hadnot, who has center experience, was also allowed to leave. Here is the bottom line and it's a quote from our old pal Tony Grossi, "His signing lessens the pressure of drafting an interior lineman with center experience. " yep,maybe there was a salary isssue too, or they believed that a C/G could be found in a later round.But the fact remains that we get NO WORSE than Eric G. at the back-up spot and he has starting experience,even if he is no legit starter, and is relatively young. We can't have 53 legit starters on the roster nor 22 pro-bowl starters. Eric G.is an insurance policy. .
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Quote:
I don't feel H&H planned on him being in that role this year.
that doesn't jive with what Danielle said,,
As for flaming,,, who knows if she paraphrased Hank and Hank Paraphrased heckert or what ever..
It seemed to be her impression that Hank was wanted by the Browns and a few weeks later,, Bye Bye Hank...
thus the reason for the surprise..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/k
Hank was one of us, a regular guy, only he played pro football for our favorate team, Hank had a yearly salary many of us would love to have, but one would never know it, from he way he acted, status wasnt something Hank cared about, he seemed more like a down home friend who'd buy ya a beer and sit N talk deer hunting with ya for hours. a basic guy. and for that he has my respect.
Danelle is CLASS to which I have the highest respect for, family is more important than how much money they had, Danelle & I swapped many stories of deer hunting, a love her & hank shared together along with thier boys. I was honored she let me into that world of theirs, not becuase he played pro football but becuase I understand there passion for deer hunting, something hunters share.
Both will be missed on here, becuase of the people they are, not becuase of danielles insite to the inner circle of the team, but because they were our friends.
We didnt lose a guard / center back-up player we lost a heartbeat of our team, a player who showed younger guys how to act & how to work, a real professional one dosent find to often.
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Legend
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Quote:
that doesn't jive with what Danielle said,,
As for flaming,,, who knows if she paraphrased Hank and Hank Paraphrased heckert or what ever..
It seemed to be her impression that Hank was wanted by the Browns
Which is pretty much what I was saying Damon. She had that impression.
Quote:
and a few weeks later,, Bye Bye Hank...
thus the reason for the surprise..
Which I eluded to as well. In the middle of putting a plan together, you never know what the end result will be. At that point in time, you do need who you have because you're really not sure the direction or path you intend to follow.
Once you find that direction, disect things and evaluate everything, things can take drastic turns.
And I do see how under the circumstances it may have "surprised" some people. But some of what I've been reading seems to be a bit deeper than a sheer "surprise".
To some it seems to run somewhat deeper than that and I believe my previous post goes a long way at explaining that.
Not you per say, but in general.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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While I'm a believer that we have upgraded the other positions we've worked out so far in the off season, I do not believe this clown is an upgrade to Fraley. I do believe from what I've read so far he appears to be a downgrade; he can't make the KC squad, sits for the season until SD absolutely has to do something, even if it's wrong and then he's free again.
I give high marks to this regime for what they've done except for this move. This move baffles me...
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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