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You guys act as if I want the Browns to lose...I'm just skeptic with the moves/non-moves of the past offseasons...this one was better depsite less talent hit the market...but we still didn't get better long term...that's what I'm loking at...of course we can win some games with running the ball and ST but that's not enough to be a contender....I set the bar a little higher, sorry This upcoming draft is a big chance...and since I think that Heckert is competent I may surprise some of you by saying something nice about it....I hope they give me enough reasons to do so Pull a Diam, pfff....you guys are wrong almost every post and you keep on posting and react like children when I remind you of it and I should run away if 1 of my predictions was wrong? Makes sense...I was wrong before btw, I thought Quinn had "some" talent when we drafted him 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Loyal,, you just gotta quit making sense.. Geesh,, what are we going to do with you.... 
Oh,, I agree..
Thanks Daman! I for one am now going to just sit back and enjoy the ride.  I think getting rid of that QB situation and keeping Mangini along with the additions of Holmgren and Heckert should allow us to do that..I haven't been this confident in the direction of this team since.....  . Mostly because it is apparent that there is actually a plan in place for this organization and what this team will be and the types of players that it will take. We will actually have an identity soon and eventually have a system in place so that new players will be able to step into an established system and be productive or have the luxury of not having to step in right away.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I have 3 comments.
I am lukewarm on signing Delhomme.
I am lukewarm on the retention of Mangini
I am a bit surprised with the Browns not going after a WR.
Everything else seems pretty solid.
I expect to see S, QB, OL and WR in the first 3 rounds, there are 5 picks, so we can fill some needs elswhere as well.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Bud, why don't you just admit it. You thrive on arguing and contraversy. You get some kind of kick out of it. Don't know why but I have posted on several boards and still post on a few. I've seen this Skip Bayless act before.
After a while, it starts running a little thin.
You have the right to post any way you like within the rules, so if that's how you get your jollies, that's fine. But don't try convincing anyone otherwise because to long time message board posters, we've seen this kind of act before. It's a re-run....
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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On the other hand I trust Holmgren as a decision maker to rid the organization of Mangini or others if necessary. Making the point moot
Last edited by Kingcob; 04/10/10 08:30 PM.
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and the only player with above AVG starter ability is Mack and we passed on guys like Crabtree or Sanchez for him
Seriously ? Your worried about Crabs and Sanch ? Crabbs lost how many games due to holdout ? He is an idiot, Ill take Mack any day. And Sanchez, dude his numbers are on par with the likes of great QBs like Jamarcus Russell. You definitely have a few points about Mangini, But Mack was a dire need. Not taking a WR or QB that high was one of Maniginis better moves IMO.
With 2 or 3 more years of drafting the way Mangini did we will then have the luxury of taking an overrated QB, plugging him in and winning in spite of him, the way the jets did this year. One thing I have always liked about Mangini ever since the Jets, is that he does get the importance of drafting line in the first round. So does Heckert, and so does Holmgren. So might as well get used to those types of picks around here.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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If you keep posting on here I am going to have to start wearing a helmet every time I come to the board. Cuz honestly,  this is getting real old. Quote:
I feel Mangini has too much say left...Fraley gone, Hall traded, Quinn traded....guys he OBVIOUSLY didn't like or mashed with
Nice revisionist history. We got rid of Kamerion and DA too.....It Had NOTHING to do with favorites---NOTHING!!!!! It had to do with moving guys to make the team better. And Holmgren, Heckert, and Mangini moved these guys in an effort to improve the team-----and guess what?!?!? Kamerion was one of the guys that Mangini loved coming in here last year---and he liked the guy moving forward----but apparently---the FO decided to make the move with Oakland----so apparently Mangini, Heckert, and Holmgren agreed that moving Kam was a good plan.
That quote is ludicrous---but so is most everything else you post.
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some of HIS guys who were as bad or worse AND are more expensive weren't cut or traded though (STClair, Womack, Royal, Barton)
Yeah, well---lets wait til the season starts to see if these guys are still on the team. Something tells me that Barton isn't going to make the cut, and St. Claire could be a goner too. Womack is still a servicable back-up and Royal will probably stay on as depth.
More Mangini hatred and conspiracy garbage. This is an NFL franchise---and the coaching staff isn't engaged in a game of favorites no matter how bad you try to make it seem that way. Twist it all you want but the facts still remain for any objective observer.
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it's a shame that you have to get rid of players because your HC can't "manage" with them...that's part of a coache's job: "managing" different personalities....not asking for more of the same.
And guess what---Mangini does that. He has managed many personalities just fine. This is more garbage from you. Its not true---its never been true---and yet you sit on this board with the same tired stories. He managed Corey Williams last year when he didn't wanna be here. He got enough outta the guy too----I think Williams was a big factor in our win against Pitt towards the end of the year. Ended the game with two sacks and multiple QB pressures.
But Mangini can't deal with difficult players who don't wanna be there anymore. He dealt with Rogers when there was supposedly some friction---and the beef was squashed. Jerome Harrison gave a detailed account of his problem with Mangini and the way he was able to talk to the man and get on the same page-----that worked out pretty well at the end of the year.
I would keep going----but honestly----it would be stupid. Your post is a waste of just about everyones time. It has an agenda that is beyond stupid and it is the same lame garbage you have been posting since we hired Mangini. Its really not worth it for me to go any further with this post. We are headed in a pretty exciting direction with three football guys making the decisions for the future of this franchise.
I expect them to build a solid organization over the next few years. You will probably be keeping your fingers crossed that we fire the coach and make Holmgren the HC/Czar/Cleveland Football Supreme Leader.
Good luck with that.
Keep Hatin'
I am gonna go get my helmet just in case you post a retort.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I thought you already had a helmet...
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Like it or not this was the best job I have ever seen any coach do here in Cleveland. The table is now set for a great run.. And Mangini made that happen…---Brown to the Bone
The Fact is Django I in fact made a very solid argument to your ranting about Mangini in fact my argument was so damned good to this day you quote one sentence from it…..
You don’t get it about Mangini, but Holmgren does. That burns your ass, and it won’t likely get better. Not because your right but because your mad, so now you have zeroed in on a new target, who cares?
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Even if it is true that Hank was told one week that he was irreplaceable and the next he was given his pink slip, how many hudreds of thousands of times has that same senario played out in our own work place because one week we are told by the front office we are on budget not toworry your staff on Monday and on friday they send down a stack of pink slips and tell you to lay off twenty five people.
Well, thats what the original question was about. Do you trust them? The last company I worked for laid off a few cooridinators. A couple weeks later we had our quarterly meeting and the company president showed us the stats on sales, then asked if we had any questions. Before we could awnser he said "Before you ask, Im going to promise you, there will be no more layoffs." This is the company president telling us to our faces mind you. 2 months later, we had a bunch of layoffs and we didnt have our next quarterly meeting. Morale was at an all time low, bosses were trying to show each other up to prove their own worth, and it didnt realy show a better quality product. It also led to employees trying to find dirt on their fellow co-workers who had more senority to better their chance of not getting laid off.
Does it happen in other companies of all sizes across the country. Yes
Does it mean that because CRAP HAPPENS everywhere that we have to trust them. No
Alot of people at the top are at the top because they get paid to lie to your face and they really dont care about you because you are just a number and they will do whatever it takes to keep filling up their own bank account.
I think is this organization the trust has to come from the very top. And that starts with Lerner. When Josh Cribbs wanted a raise he spoke his mind and went to work. This last time he was upset because they had a new president after he was already promised twice that if he continues to work hard he will get his money. His agent said in the papers that ownership promised him a raise if he continues to do what he does. not only did he continue to do what he does on specail teams, he was aked to play WR and QB from the wildcat. Almost single handedly beating Pittsburgh for the first time in 12 games. It took a public fan support group to help him get that raise. When he signed the contract Savage and Cribbs both said in the papers in was a contract to keep him a Brown that can be re-negotiated down the road. Savage gets fired, Mangini says that he doesnt have to live up promises made by people that aint there. Then Mangini promises Cribbs that if he continues to do his thing that he will get a raise at the end of the year. Maybe something along the lines of that he will get a signing bonus of the money left over in cap room from this previose season. Then Cribbs is upset that he was promised a raise by 2 regimes then a new boss comes in. But there was one constant during this whole issue- Lerner. He can say all he wants that he wants nothing to do with the football decisions. But he still watches the games and any one of our wives that dont even like football can tell you how important Cribbs is to this team. If you own a product then you yourself should get involved in making sure you keep one of the best parts of your product unless he is completely not paying attention.
How about the owner not even knowing if his new hire will keep the current coach so he cant face him and decides to not come to the final 4 games?
I do think the trust amongst the players on up will get better. Mike Keenan the former president wasnt supposed to have anything to do with football decisions. He was supposed to be the guy that takes care of the business side. But he was involved in the power struggles between Savage and Crennel, then Mangini and Kokinis. When an issue arose where they had their differances, Keenan was a tie breaker and is had been said that Keenan always sided with the more dominate personality. Maybe the guy who came running to him behind the other guys back with the best sales pitch as to why Keenan needs to take their side because Keenan was in Lerners ear.
This is a very good topic to bring up especially since there are people still in the building that had their scouts phones confiscated just because a reporter knew Kokinis was coming to town to talk about the job. A job he didnt want at first because he was happy where he was at, and a job Ozzie Newsome wouldnt even let the Browns signed him unless it was in contract that Kokinis had final player personnel decisions. How did that work out? Kokinis learned Edwards was traded from watching Sportscenter. Then the owner tried to talk him into quitting without severance pay.
Now that Keenen is gone and now that Lerner has hired someone to keep Lerner completely out of the picture, we are going to hear alot less of these stories about management not getting along. But it did happen with Fraley and who knows which level of management told Fraley he was safe. Maybe Mangini told him he was safe not knowing Heckerts and Holmgrens plans. All I know for a fact is that when Fraley started out of position at RG, they won games. Someone might say he makes too much to be a backup but with this teams injury history, hes going to eventually start and he couldnt have made that much more than Pashos, St. Clair and Womack. One of those guys will be riding the bench too. Maybe the loser for the starting position, will be cut at the end of camp and wasnt cut when Fraley was cut, because they werent getting a roster bonus at the time as Fraley. I really hope Mack doesnt get hurt because then we are going to see the same thing that happened when Savage traded Faine after signing Bentley.
Lerner loves hiring people to do things for the first time. But the fans have to grin and bare it when these first timers have to learn from their own mistakes. Its like since 99 we have been watching a team from the bottom uplearn from on-the-job-training. Which was cool with him at first because the team has been selling out games ever since.
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They got rid of a Ham Sandwich(Quinn) for greater value than he is worth.
But when Holmgren makes a statement like "Your QB and HC has to have a certain relationship." Then Quinn is traded and Delhomme is brought in and the team is paying him at least $4 million more to play QB. Some fans think that happened because Mangini himself couldnt get along with Quinn. If that is true, was it really for the best to pay a new guy more then double what the old one is making (Holmgren himself said that Quinn hasnt gotten a big enough chance to prove himself on the field) especially when you look at Delhommes stats last year.
If Holmgren drafts Clausen, then some people really aint going to trust him.
Its going to take the team to start winning for some to care about what he does instead of what he says. Whats what these boards are for. For some to vent their frustartions are for some to back every single move made by the Browns like they are the smartest people ever. Remember fans bashing Kiper when he gave the Browns a bad draft grade almost every year, even tho they knew nothing about Northcutt or Chaverini That was homerism at its finest. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But if it continues, Ill save my money, upgrade my paintball gun, and watch the game at home instead of going to the game.
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Things change.. one day, things are looking like it will be alright,, then something happens and you, as management in a corporation, must adjust/adapt of parish.
If you learn nothing else in life, learn this, nothing is guaranteed.. and that's because things change, People Change, Ideas change.. new ideas are adopted, new beliefs are formed, new realities arise.
I'm sure the president of your company was facing those changes that he just didn't expect to work out as they did.
As for Randy Lerner,, I still think he's actually an excellent owner. Each and everytime he's been confronted with a horrible product on the field, he's been willing to make the necessary changes. (and no, I don't believe the Frye guys had any thing to do with the changes made)
he's not a football man,, he never claimed to be anything more that a Fan..
So he only had/has one choice.. if it's not working, bring in people to fix it.. if they don't work out, get another bunch of guys to try again.. and keep doing that until you get the right ones..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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..and the argument is?....Funny how you guys ... around the pot....you can't name a good one, just admit it I keep your quote in my sig because it's a great summary of what is wrong with this fanbase...if this was "the best you've seen a caoch do" (which is so hilarious, we didn't score a TD for how many weeks? how many negative records did we break? lol, we looked like the stooges out there), then this tells me all about the lowered expectations for this franchise. I'm not going to take it to make the garbage on the field acceptable to me...instead I call a spade a spade instead of making excuses, which all of you resort to It's a process, right?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I thought you already had a helmet...
"Having a helmet" and "wearing it" are two different things.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If he keeps banging it like that after reading django's posts, he's going to have to get a new one.
#GMSTRONG
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You continue to ignore the fact that Mangini inherited a bad team,
Can you, with any degree of certainty, explain how any other coach could have done better? By how many games? Please explain how you know this for certain.
Can you really say that the team is worse now than at this time last year? If so,please explain.
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Quote:
Can you really say that the team is worse now than at this time last year? If so,please explain.
Oh this should be good...
#GMSTRONG
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He inherited most of the roster (esp. on Offense) that won 10 games and was a Top10 O just 14 months from when he took over...forgot that? People keep talking about we got lucky winning some tight ones that season...that's BS, since we lost as many tight ones (OAK, ARI...remember?)...so, these same players needed 10+ weeks to get a RB or WR into the Endzone under Mangini? or be competitive in ANY form or fashion? Are you kidding me? For most of the season I saw the worst football EVER by a Browns team, and that was pretty hard to accomplish...BUF-CLE might have been the worst professional sports game EVER....even when we improved and won the final 4 games, I didn't see a good team...we still couldn't throw the ball or stop anyone not weather aided (KC and OAK moved the ball at will against us)....we were as bad then as we were in 2008 under Crennel..that was Mangini's "improvement"...
I still can't believe how anyone thinks the late season Mangini team was any better than the Crennel one on their good days...our most complete game the last 2 seasons was the MNG against the Giants...is anyone going to dispute that?, because that would be funny....I get that the PIT-win is something special but we won it thanks to our D having a good day in bad wather against a moronic PIT-OC and Cribbs...where was the Offense? against KC: where was the D?
Our best game the last 2 seasons was under Crennel...and I don't think he was anywhere near a good or even AVG HC
Holmgren gets hired, the OL-scheme gets switched and suddenly we at least have SOMETHING we do well on Offense (because thanks to Mangini's power scheme, playing favs Jennings over Harrison, we didn't even have a running game till then)...coincidence? am I the only one who remembers last season as a whole?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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you avoided the questions.
FAIL
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Quote:
Bud, why don't you just admit it. You thrive on arguing and contraversy. You get some kind of kick out of it. Don't know why but I have posted on several boards and still post on a few. I've seen this Skip Bayless act before.
After a while, it starts running a little thin.
You have the right to post any way you like within the rules, so if that's how you get your jollies, that's fine. But don't try convincing anyone otherwise because to long time message board posters, we've seen this kind of act before. It's a re-run....
jmho
LOL...Amen 2 dat...
I've got reservations myself about Holmgren...This is the 1st time he's held this type of position...But he's brought in solid football people...Heckert being the most solid...We shall see in 3 years...
I c exactly where Dango's comin' from...He despises Mangini for the draft last year...We've got it burned in our heads about who HE woulda taken...We could go over the past 5 years and check intelligent draft guys we know and who THEY woulda taken too...It is what it is...
And this is what he's settin' himself up for...And he'll claim GENIOUS for it if it happens...We've had yet another year of major roster turnover...And a HC who's been given a CHANCE for year 2...An entire new FO...And a team that won 4 in a row running 90% of the time...THAT WILL NEVER WORK CONSISTENTLY...
So here we are week 9 this season and we sit at 3-6...Mangini's fired and Dango starts the I TOLD YA' SO BS...This whole thing ain't rocket science...It's very possible Mangini doesn't survive the entire year...But again...It ain't rocket science...But some (One in particular) will claim superiority...lmao...
Go Browns!!!
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You're topping yourself with every post...now the sig-remover, troll-shouter and 6month long question dodger accuses me of having failed to answer his silly question after having just done that That's a new low....even for you  If you really think that no other coach would have "managed" to do better, then you really deserve the garbage you got served every sunday...and that was just the gameday managing....my even bigger problem with EM was his fail offseason...he got rid of over half of the bad team he inherited and made the roster older and not 1 bit better
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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six momth question dodger: what question from 6 months ago? That would be October,right? Troll- Shouter: sig-remover: .Maybe I should change my sig for your benefit. Happy now?
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Yeah he also inherrited a team who ha only won 4 games in 2008.Cherry picking in the 2007 season and ommiting to look at 2008 is proof of how far you'll reach to prove your point. Not only that, but Mangini off loaded malcontents such as KW2 and BE and STILL won more games than in 2008. All the while he was installing a new system in his first year here. He is a diciplinarian and these players were used to Romeo who was just the opposite. So it took some time for them to accept this, get on board with his system and make the adjustments. So you just keep ranting away. We saw just how much these guys were playing a 100% on every down and learned how to win under Mangini towards the end of the season. WE saw our team win one more game than the previous year even with our two biggest O targets gone. It appears you wish to neglect these things just to support your arguement, Carry on.......... 
Last edited by PitDAWG; 04/11/10 09:10 AM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Ok, jango, I'm new to this board and I just want to make certain that I fully understand your problem.
1) The owner hired some new guys that you are not too sure of yet, but they will do something wrong soon enough and you will be calling for them to be fired. And if the owner had conferred with you first, you could have saved him all this grief that is to come.
2) The new guy who the owner put in charge kept the coach that you wanted fired. And things would have been better off if this new exec had simply listened to you. Have you two exchanged cell phone numbers so he can contact you during the draft to see what he should do next?
3) Things would have been far better if someone had simply listened to you back down the line.: Mangini would have already been fired. And the coach before him would have been fired quicker. So your successes are measured by how fast you can get a coach fired. Do you take personal credit when they are fired? Do you tell everyone, "I told you so"?
4) And you are complaining because no one is listening to your rants? I wonder why they don't.
Do I have it straight now?
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Quote:
Do I have it straight now?
In a word...Yes.
Nicely done...welcome to the board.
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I probably shouldn't answer because if I do, Jango will tell me again that he understands why Diam hates me (as if I freakin care about Diam) But, I will answer your question Newdawg Quote:
Do I have it straight now?
yes, you seem to have captured the essence of the issue very well...
ya know, for a new guy, you ain't half bad......LOL
Welcome!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Welcome to the board NewDawg!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
LET'S GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/OldSixty-Two/new0400001.jpg) [b]WOOF WOOF[b]
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1. No, learn to read properly...go re-read the 1st post on page 2 2. Yes, and no 3. Yes. No, I would not have hired EM in the 1st place 4. No. I keep stressing that most on here make no sense or even close to a good argument....and I know why, they lack football knowledge. Being a homer is ok but it gets funny when they think they're not...in case you have missed it: I'm having fun here, esp. with guys like LJ No, you have gotten next to nothing of what I said, esp. not about H/H...but it's ok....join the pointless hate-parade, it's always more fun to pile on then to start thinking, right?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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You should try thinking.. who knows,, it might be something new for you
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah, about 6 months ago I started asking guys on here to give me some things Mangini is really good at...I'm still waiting to hear a good or relevant one
You removed a quote of mine that would make you look stupid NOW (you thought it would make me look stupid THEN...funny how things turn out, huh?), that's pretty much all I need to know about you
oh and PIT: Do you really think Mangini's team played better than Crennel's? both overall and on their good days?
and you do know that the schedule 2008 was much tougher than 2009
Regardless: some more facts:
1. Crennel had a better record his 1st season even with MUCH LESS talent (Verba at LT, Fisk at NT, and Dilfer/Frye at QB...beat that) than Mangini in his 1st season....that leads to
2. Normally teams of 1st year HCs overachieve their 1st season...there are numerous examples for this: look no further than Crennel in CLE or Mangini in NY
3. The Browns NEVER have been out of any form of contention or "hope" as early as under Mangini...not in any Crennel season
4. cold stats: Under Crennel yds/play, 2005-08:
Offense: 4.9, 4.5, 5.6, 4.3
Defense: 5.0, 5.3, 5.4, 5.7
Mangini in 09: 4.3 on Offense and 5.8 on D....the 4.3 to 5.7 discrepancy got Crennel fired...hmm
edit: and for those who like Mangini's "conservative" approach and "discipline":
Crennel TO-ratios: -7, -15, -2, +5...Mangini: -12
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Yeah, about 6 months ago I started asking guys on here to give me some things Mangini is really good at...I'm still waiting to hear a good or relevant one
Creating a running game.
Hiring great assistants
Getting rid of malcontents
Giving players a fair shot
Winning over his players
Teaching players a system
Unfortunately, you'll shoot each of these down because YOU don't THINK that they are either relevant or true. I could say grass is green and say that no one can prove me wrong if I'm not willing to listen.
You have a personal vendetta against Mangini that, for some reason, you are not able to look unbiased against him. That's fine, as long as you could admit it and not waste our time jumping up and down for a real argument. No one is going to answer you because, quite frankly, it's like talking to a deaf man, you'll never hear it.
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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General reply:
I hate to say what they are doing is right or wrong since it is so early in the process but the only move that really makes any sense at all is acquiring sheldon Brown.
Wallace and delhomme you gotta be kidding lol The fact we actually traded for Wallace and we gave Delhomme 7 mil a year when his best other options was backup duty is really disturbing.
if i had to give them a grade on the moves made so far it would be a solid D minus
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Pashos and Watson?
3rd round draft pick for Wimbley?
Eliminating DA's contract?
D-
Wow.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341 |
I wonder what Mangini/Heck/Holmie would have to do to earn even a B-plus. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
Creating a running game.
Hiring great assistants
Getting rid of malcontents
Giving players a fair shot
Winning over his players
Teaching players a system
Unfortunately, you'll shoot each of these down because YOU don't THINK that they are either relevant or true. I could say grass is green and say that no one can prove me wrong if I'm not willing to listen.
I applaud you for at least trying...and no, I'm not being sarcastic this time
In fact I don't see any of them as a positive:
1. "creating" a running game? We had none going with HIS style...he stubbornly had Jennings over Harrison for weeks, despite a blind man could see that Harrison is more talented...and he stubbornly ran his power scheme without having the horses or the OL buying into it...then he (or Holmgren via "advice"?) switched to Harrison and the 07 zone-scheme and we dominated the LOS (against VERY weak Front 7s though, KC, OAK and JAX were among the worst front 7s in the league)...and what good is a running game if you have no passing...the bottom line facts are what they are...if anything we got easier to gameplan against
2. You gotta be kidding me...great assistants? I know you guys here love Ryan but I think he isn't even an AVG DC in this league...he's the Jack Cust of the DCs: hit or miss, not much thinking....OAK (!!) was happy to get rid of him...the 5.8/play is a new low..and last time I checked we didn't lose any big name on D, right?...and I'm not going to start on Daboll: back to back WR-screen gameplan out of the half on MNF is all I need to know
3. Wow, he got rid of BE and KW...guess no other HC could have done that 
4. Lol, a fair shot, that's what you call signing bums and giving them playing time to show that they suck...I would have rather seen Harrison than Jennings before...or Moore than Royal, Benard than whatever bum played OLB before, Fraley than Womack, whoever (Francies?) over Poteat etc etc You actually turn a negative into a positive...he clearly played HIS guys over talent (that probably had the guts to crticize him, ie Harrison)
5.+6. Who? and what system? I don't like systems that produce bad stats and bad games and that lose a 3 score lead to horrible teams (DET-game, where his "conservative"-D system was in full force)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Pashos and Watson?
= StClair and Royal..really what's the difference...all 4 are below AVG players at their position...we just exchanged the bums
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3rd round draft pick for Wimbley?
Lol, so you think somebody else would not have gotten the same if they decided to move Wimbs?...oh, and it's a late 3rd (#85 overall)...that somewhere in between where we picked Veikune and Maiava...that's the talent level we're looking at (I'm a bit too harsh here because Heckert should find better talent than Mangini...and the draft pool's deeper)...oh, I already hear you jump: we got Gocong for Wimbs...Wimbley, as bad as he was, at least had 25+ career sacks, Gocong has 4
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Eliminating DA's contract?
That's my fav...
Nobody else could have gotten the papers in order and cut him, NOBODY...I'm telling yall !! Thanks for the laugh
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Dawg Talker
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hey, DJ... What is the winning lotto number for tomorrow's drawing? You can tell the future, right? The team has not taken one snap this season and you have a rating
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Come on eliminating DA's contract didnt exactly take mental prowess, the guy sucked was due a huge roster bonus so we cut him. Then we signed the only guy in the league that might have had a worse year than DA to a 2 year 14 mil year deal.
Watson is actually a downgrade from Heiden in both blocking and in hands. He is faster and actually can stay healthy. This was a positive signing but he is average at best and no where close to his draft hype.
Pashos is pencilled in as our starter at RT. The guy has concrete feet and he is a leaner. the only reason he is considered any type of upgrade is because St Claire was so horrible.
Wimbley trade was better than the Quinn trade but it was no earth shattering deal. It was foolish to trade Quinn when we did. Starters go down in camp and preseason, it wouldnt have hurt anything to have held onto him.
Brian Daboll is still OC.
We have the worst situation at QB of any team in football.
right side of the line still sucks
DL has been downgraded with the loss of Corey
Safety is downgraded with the loss of poole
Linebacker I believe is downgraded with the loss of Hall who btw played his ass off anytime he was given a shot. Mangini just did not like the guy.
As I said before I hate giving out grades this early because it isnt a finished product but moves made so far have been ok or bad.
Signing Delhomme to a 14 mil contract when noone wanted the guy is the big signing and one of the dumbest moves this organization has ever made. I just dont get it at all.
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Quote:
I applaud you for at least trying...and no, I'm not being sarcastic this time
In fact I don't see any of them as a positive:
1. "creating" a running game? We had none going with HIS style...he stubbornly had Jennings over Harrison for weeks, despite a blind man could see that Harrison is more talented...and he stubbornly ran his power scheme without having the horses or the OL buying into it...then he (or Holmgren via "advice"?) switched to Harrison and the 07 zone-scheme and we dominated the LOS (against VERY weak Front 7s though, KC, OAK and JAX were among the worst front 7s in the league)...and what good is a running game if you have no passing...the bottom line facts are what they are...if anything we got easier to gameplan against
Again, making excuses for a good coaching decision and then following it up with telling us how weak the Front 7 was. I don't care who you are, almost obtaining the single game rushing record is hard to do against anyone.
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2. You gotta be kidding me...great assistants? I know you guys here love Ryan but I think he isn't even an AVG DC in this league...he's the Jack Cust of the DCs: hit or miss, not much thinking....OAK (!!) was happy to get rid of him...the 5.8/play is a new low..and last time I checked we didn't lose any big name on D, right?...and I'm not going to start on Daboll: back to back WR-screen gameplan out of the half on MNF is all I need to know
Since when is Oakland seen as the organizational standard as to how to base a coach on? Ryan produced on much of what he said he would and did it with very minimal talent, especially at the end of the year.
Daboll gets a bad rap. He was forced to call a weak game because he had weak QB's. When he did call down field passes, WR'ers were open, but the QB couldn't find the guy who was open.
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3. Wow, he got rid of BE and KW...guess no other HC could have done that
An incompetent one would probably have kept them to try and win. Mangini quickly cut bait with both of these guys.
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4. Lol, a fair shot, that's what you call signing bums and giving them playing time to show that they suck...I would have rather seen Harrison than Jennings before...or Moore than Royal, Benard than whatever bum played OLB before, Fraley than Womack, whoever (Francies?) over Poteat etc etc You actually turn a negative into a positive...he clearly played HIS guys over talent (that probably had the guts to crticize him, ie Harrison)
The Royal and Poteat examples are both of which I will admit, they should have been handled better. But Benard was given a shot when players went down rather than just handing it to a high draft pick or vet backup.
Fraley was an old vet and didn't deserve another shot at starting. He was incapable at G before, there was no reason to believe he would have been better.
Harrison and Jennings, for the most part, got their shots at the same time. Let's not forget that Harrison had his shot against the Bengals, then Jennings got his against the Steelers. Eventually, he settled on Harrison, whom he could see was clearly better. I give him credit to recognizing the talent and then pushing Harrison to achieve more. I believe Harrison said that Mangini told him that he'd have to practice harder to get more shots. Which leads me to:
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5.+6. Who? and what system? I don't like systems that produce bad stats and bad games and that lose a 3 score lead to horrible teams (DET-game, where his "conservative"-D system was in full force)
The system at the end of the year was perfect for their talent. Did it take them too long to get to it? Debatable, but they eventually did find the correct system for their talent. And I'm not talking about the DET game, that was a massive failure on both sides of the ball and coaching.
As for whom he won over, Rogers said multiple times that he didn't like Mangini until he met him. What have we heard from him since? Other than the stupid gun thing, Rogers has kept his mouth shut and worked hard.
Harrison was outspoken against his coach and I even remember a radio interview with him when he questioned why he didn't get to play more. By the end of the season, Harrison credited Mangini with pushing him to try harder in practice rather than just handing him the job and he thought it helped him greatly.
Even for a brief period of time, Edwards had done a 180 and actually kept his mouth shut under Mangini and said all the right things.
Is Mangini the perfect coach? No. There are some great flaws in his game, especially when it comes to mid game adjustments. However, he has all the tools to be a very successful head coach in the NFL, and I think it will happen sooner rather than later.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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Quote:
Signing Delhomme to a 14 mil contract when noone wanted the guy is the big signing and one of the dumbest moves this organization has ever made. I just dont get it at all.
I would imagine, (read that as I have no clue, just guessing) they wanted someone they felt could manage the games better than what was on our roster. If, like Warner a change of scenery can bring Delhomme back to the form he once had, he'll be serviceable while whomever we draft, grows up. Don't read that as I'm suggesting that Delhomme is as good as Warner or has that potential, just that once he was decent and might be again in the same vain as Warner did for the Cards.
If Delhomme comes in and plays like he did last year you can bet he won't see that 2nd year of his contract. Let's face it, the QB's we had sucked in comparison to what potential there may be left in Delhomme. It's a crap shoot for the management to take but I will trust Holmgren's decisions on QB's much sooner than I will someone on this site. At least until he proves that trust is wrongly placed.
#GMSTRONG
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