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Taking the best player available when all the players you want are gone is never a bad option.
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You're right DC, but I think we all know (with the exception of ref 7) what it would have taken.
It would have been really expensive.
But, we need a Super Bowl capable quarterback. We need an impact player at that position. I'm not that high on Locker, do you think Mallet will lead us through the playoffs?
My opinion is that we needed to do whatever it took (for many well thought out reasons). And, I'm sure that the price was what I wrote on my "Pull the freakin trigger" thread that was locked, would have been very close to the price required.
I actually think we should have paid it. Although it would be very easy to dismiss it as lunacy, I don't think I was being crazy. I think we could have rebounded from paying that price.
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mangini took revis and now he took haden so i'm optimistic.
Mangini, watched, listened and then went to bed.
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Legend
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3rd round is where we get our safety
Barry Church, Toledo.
The Rutgers kid is a hitter too; can't remember his name,....
As the consensus appears to be, will or can, we move Brown to safety (?), getting Haden doesn't make that automatic, and Mangini has said "NO." That might mean we are still looking at safety, and Taylor Mays is still on the board,....I figure he's gone in the next 4-5 picks as a BPA'er,...that's why I have Church targeted in a later round,...
Discuss.
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if you're trying to say he had no input and did not participate in the draft, then i disagree.
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I wouldn't be upset at all if we took a flier on Myron Rolle in the 5th-7th rounds. At least you know he is smart and will work hard.
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Legend
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I would have taken him with last year's last pick,...
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I always thought the same thing. Everyone knew he was coming back.
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This discussion has been had on here before,...you retain those rights, but now, for only a year. It ain't like when the Cowboys stole Roger Staubach and were allowed to wait five years for him to do his Navy time,....
In this case, Rolle could have been signed and still allowed to go finish his Rhodes scholarship. Can't believe no NFL team even tried to swing that. Perhaps he didn't even declare ? I suppose there is some legal requirement to do so (?), or we'd be having teams take flyers on underclassmen left and right.
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I wouldn't have been mad if we had taken Spiller, but Haden makes me much happier. I really don't get why so many are down on the pick. We just added a player who in a couple of years will be a shutdown cornerback.
People aren't used to the smart pick since Joe Thomas. Also not used to building for the future with BPA opposed to need pick.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Clemson isn't in in the PAC 10. 
Opps!  Was thinking of the rb from Cal. lmao!!!!
But you know what I meant 
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mangini took revis and now he took haden so i'm optimistic.
Mangini, watched, listened and then went to bed.
Any other first hand knowledge of the Browns war room you care to share?
From the interviews with Holmgren and Heckert, Mangini and his staf have had involvment with the draft and potential picks. When Holmgren said that he would bever give Mangini a player he did not want. do you think that he was lying? If not, then how do you suppose he knows which players mangini would, or wold not want?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joe Haden was the best player available?
He gets beat on pump fakes.
He's still a project on his tackling.
He has an upside but many boards had 2 corners rated ahead of him. He is a former quarterback who turned wide receiver who turned into a corner. He is still developing.
Sorry, I don't want to spoil the mood, but when it comes to the Browns, facts are relevant.
I hope he turns into a great shutdown corner. He better.
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Any other first hand knowledge of the Browns war room you care to share?
Not really.
Mangini didn't make the pick was all I was saying. Way to over analyze my joke. 
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He started 3 years on one the the best defenses in the country in the fastest, toughest conference. He's been rated as the best corner in the country all of last season. You're right he's still a project, we should have taken Kyle Wilson. 
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Legend
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lol, Haden is considered by most to be the best corner in the draft. AFAIK, no one across the country has been critical of this pick except for the few who want to bash the FO no matter what.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Yawn...stop already...U would have been better to use the Thomas comparison but U didn't..and even if you do..the Browns drafted the player they had high on their board and would solify the secondary.
you have a real problem thinking 3 dimensionally don't you? just can see past the end of your nose......typical
Actually I know more about drafting from the edge of my short nose than you will from the sphere of your massive ego..
yeah keep telling yourself that
the same people that said Adrian Peterson was an injury prone bust LMAO!
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"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Joe Haden was the best player available?
You do realize he's the ONLY true freshman to start at CB for Florida...ever.
Think about that. Florida cranks out some unbelievable football players.
What's more impressive is he NEVER played CB until college. He was a HS QB who switched to defense. For him to learn a position in a couple months, start in the SEC and never get pulled from the lineup is unbelievable. He's only going to continue to get better.
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I was being sarcastic.
I know dude... I was supporting you and poking fun at the guy above you.
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Quote:
Joe Haden was the best player available?
He gets beat on pump fakes.
He's still a project on his tackling.
He has an upside but many boards had 2 corners rated ahead of him. He is a former quarterback who turned wide receiver who turned into a corner. He is still developing.
Every corner ever to play in the NFL has gotten beat on a pump fake. If no one ever got beat, no one would ever do it.
Of course he's still a project on his tackling, he's been playing corner for 3 freaking years. However, he is very physical, isn't afraid to tackle and, most importantly, has extremely good gameday speed.
I'd like you to find me one scout or one reputable draft site that had two corners rated ahead of Haden. Not Earl Thomas because he is a safety, I want to see guys who are no doubt going to be corners in the NFL.
you had a good run Hank.
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How long you gonna keep whining about Spiller?
You still think you're smarter than the FO? I sure as hell don't think many others do.
You think?
The draft picks we have made in the last 10 years...you kidding me?
We could have handed the reins over to a 12 year old video game addict could have made better draft decisions them these Clowns we have put in here in the last 10 years..
I thought Holmgren was a decent move...but some of his drafts in Seattle were just downright awful...this may end up being one of them
its not just about Spiller, drafting a CB that high doesn't make sense
when your drafting in the Top 10 its because your OL, DL, QB, and RB suck...plain and simple
so how do we address the problem? We draft a corner.....classic
i figure Haden will most likely be a bust.....this isn't about me not liking Haden...I think Haden himself is a good player, but with no pass rush to speak of, the kid will be hung out to dry and label as a bust in 3 years...
we needed DE and LB badly...
Rolondo McClain would have been a better pick...we need that intimidating presense at LB....we need that guy thats going to smack Medenhall and Ray Rice up longside the had...McClain is that kinda guy...he comes in day one and makes a difference..
you want to win in the NFL? you must do two things
1. Run the Football
2. Stop the run
we can do neither, and Haden doesn't help us do either one...nuff said....with a good front 7 you can get by with Average secondary...but i don't care how good your secondary is...no pass rush and no decent front 7 = disaster....
but keep drinking the kool-aid, i am not...that first pick was garbage and addressed nothing....BMAC is not as bad as many think, Wright is good, and Brown still has 2 years left...we could have went in another direction,.
but im done with this....I know this team will be lucky to win 4 games next year...that something to look forward to eh?
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Quote:
Quote:
I was being sarcastic.
I know dude... I was supporting you and poking fun at the guy above you.
I was bashing the f.o.? 
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Thanks for responding specifically and not emotionally.
Actually, there have been sports shows today saying exactly what I said, that boards/scouts out there had the Alabama corner and Wilson rated higher.
Its just a fact. Not a rumor.
I never said we should have taken either one of them.
And, if you check I actually posted a thread on Haden. I linked a great video of him in his home environment, showing his training program.
Hate to blind people with specific facts. They get in the way.
Haden isn't the finished article and I can see many different ways I would have preferred for this to have played out. But, at least we aren't tied to spending the next three years waiting to see if Clausen or McCoy pan out.
Yet.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Yawn...stop already...U would have been better to use the Thomas comparison but U didn't..and even if you do..the Browns drafted the player they had high on their board and would solify the secondary.
you have a real problem thinking 3 dimensionally don't you? just can see past the end of your nose......typical
Actually I know more about drafting from the edge of my short nose than you will from the sphere of your massive ego..
yeah keep telling yourself that
the same people that said Adrian Peterson was an injury prone bust LMAO!
And you keep telling yourself that you're smarter than H&H.
Now that's funny right there!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
He gets beat on pump fakes.
That's funny. The scouting report states the EXACT opposite.
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Quote:
1. Run the Football
2. Stop the run
The Colts and New Orleans beg to differ.
In fact, If we have people who can cover we can afford to blitz more often which will then stop the run. Outside of trying to ice a game in the 4th and having a guy who can get it over the markers on 3rd down, you don't really need great running back in the NFL anymore.
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Quote:
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He gets beat on pump fakes.
That's funny. The scouting report states the EXACT opposite.
But what OldSkool said was a "FACT!"
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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JK Hated the pick. I wanted Berry and when he was gone, Earl Thomas. I think we are all forgetting who our S's are A WR and Elam. I didn't even know we got rid of Poole until I saw the Jets or somebody picked him up. Another 2nd S pick wasted. Maybe in the nd we will take Taylor Mays. He's not perfect but I would rather see him or Spikes than a small boned runt like colt Mc Coy. Is McCoy going to be able to throw through the winds of Cleveland? DA could'nt.What about Spiller? He must be puking in his Cheerios when he thinks about going to Buffalo.And what was Buff thinking. He's not what you would call a mudder. ..... Maybe Robo can play Safety?
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Quote:
You think?
The draft picks we have made in the last 10 years...you kidding me
No I'm not kidding you. We have NEVER had a FO with this much experience or success EVER since our return.
Let me make a comparison.
You had a 77 Pinto and you trade it in for a 2010 Lexus.
Now you want to complain how much your car broke down, and how afraid you are your car will continue to break down even though you just bought a far better car.
It seems you want to equate Holmgren and Heckert with past regimes. If you want to do that, then fine.
Me? I know we have VERY capable people in charge with a somewhat proven track record. For me to compare, worry or be concerned by comparing them with past regimes? That would be wrong on so many different levels and an insult as it pertains to waht our new FO actually brings to the table.
I'm very happy and confident with the new Lexus! And I have no intention to compare it with the Pinto, the Maverick and the Chevy Vega we've had in the past. But you feel free to if you wish!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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He gets beat on pump fakes.
That's funny. The scouting report states the EXACT opposite.
But what OldSkool said was a "FACT!"
can't believe you guys.
the thing you should be really lambasting is that he said Joe Haden was a poor tackler. that is just completely ludicrous. Haden is one of the better tackling CBs that has come out recently.
to me, the kid is Cortland Finnegan with better coverage and ball skills.
#gmstrong
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I am more then entitled to compare Holmgren and Heckert to past regimes
lets see:
He trades for Seneca Wallace a career backup QB....
He brings in Old Man Jake Dellhome as an answer for QB
didn't address WR, RB, or DL
the only "decent" moves they made was bring in Ben Watson and Scott Fujita....
they are "quality" NFL starters...no superstars, but decent players
other then that...we have gotten no better, in fact we have gotten worse
we lost Wimbley and Willaims (two of our decent defensive players)
Dqwell Jackson they say is on the trading block
Jackson is a very very good LB that gets no love...he would start on the Steelers at ILB....he is a very good player...yet many want to see him gone...
what exactly has this front office done to give us a chance to compete this year?
they have done nothing to give us a chance to actually win football games.....nothing
we lost more then we gained...that alone is enough to make a fair assesement....
I want to win holmgren...I don't want none of this dancing around garbage...bring me front 7 players and OL and a decent back and we can win this darn division..
if you wanted Defense at 7 Rolondo McClain the top rated LB made more sense for us then a CB....McClain and Jackson together with Fujita would have given us an excellent run defense...and that gives us at least a chance to win games...
the Steelers got Mendenhall
Cincy has Benson
Ravens got Rice
you want to compete in the AFC North you gotta run the ball and stop the run..we can do neither..and got worse at it..
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All Pro
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Draft weekend is the ultimate time to read classics like this. One pick in....the sky falls. The plane has crashed. She's pregnant. Oh MY GOD!!!
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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I think you're giving too much weight to the front 7. Good cover guys allow for closer play at the line with your linebackers. And with the 3-4 scheme especially you need good cover guys because the 3-4 thrives in blitz packages. If your corners can't cover, you're going to get burnt all the time and allow a WR to leak into open space.
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Legend
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Haden's ability to blitz is very appealing to me in Ryan's defense. 3 sacks for a corner is pretty good.
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Legend
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Quote:
But, we need a Super Bowl capable quarterback. We need an impact player at that position. I'm not that high on Locker, do you think Mallet will lead us through the playoffs?
Yes we do but I think we can agree that we weren't going there this year with Bradford or Delhomme or Dan Marino...
I don't know which QBs will emerge next year that look like they can fill that void. (and I haven't given up on this year yet, I still think we are going to take McCoy)... I don't know where we will be drafting next year.. what I do know is that if we had Bradford, a couple sub 3rd round picks this year and missing a high pick or two next year, that it would be just as difficult for us to get better...
yebat' Putin
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Discussing QB's in the next year's draft is ridiculous considering round 2-7 in this year's draft haven't even occurred. And then there's those games we have to play in between drafts.
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I agree. I agree with those who say we need a top notch QB to get us to the promised land.. I don't know that we needed to mortgage the farm to get him this year...
yebat' Putin
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He trades for Seneca Wallace a career backup QB
A 7th rounder for a VERY servicable back-up QB? I'll take that deal every time.
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He brings in Old Man Jake Dellhome as an answer for QB
Holmgren told you Delhomme is the "answer" for our QB position? How about this, he brought in Delhomme to be a serviceable stop-gap because he didn't like any QB's but Bradford this year. 1 year stop gap until next year's deep QB draft class. Not a bad move.
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didn't address WR, RB, or DL
We still have 11 more picks. Who did you want in free agency to fill these needs? Terrell Owens? LaDanian Tomlinson? If so, you'd have a sweet team, if this was 2001.
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the only "decent" moves they made was bring in Ben Watson and Scott Fujita....
they are "quality" NFL starters...no superstars, but decent players
How many "superstars" ever hit the free agency market? And, when they do, the teams that sign them are in trouble for years because of the huge contracts they have to give out. You build through the draft, you add the small pieces in free agency, not the other way around.
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we lost Wimbley and Willaims (two of our decent defensive players)
LOL
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Dqwell Jackson they say is on the trading block
Let's blast the FO for doing something that they haven't even done yet! Brilliant!
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Jackson is a very very good LB that gets no love...he would start on the Steelers at ILB....he is a very good player...yet many want to see him gone...
DQ gets exactly the love he should get. Not much.
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what exactly has this front office done to give us a chance to compete this year?
They've given us a VERY good CB duo in Eric Wright and Joe Haden. They've added some solid starters in free agency. But you're right, we won't compete this year. You can't fix this mess in one year, and your expectation to do so is unrealistic.
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they have done nothing to give us a chance to actually win football games.....nothing
See above
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we lost more then we gained...that alone is enough to make a fair assesement....
You can't make a fair assessment, because you don't know what we've gained because we haven't used the draft picks we got for those guys yet.
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I want to win holmgren...I don't want none of this dancing around garbage...bring me front 7 players and OL and a decent back and we can win this darn division..
We are so much further away from winning this division that you realize.
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if you wanted Defense at 7 Rolondo McClain the top rated LB made more sense for us then a CB....McClain and Jackson together with Fujita would have given us an excellent run defense...and that gives us at least a chance to win games...
Haden gives us a better chance to win games.
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the Steelers got Mendenhall
Cincy has Benson
Ravens got Rice
Steelers have Rothlisberger and the best passing game in the division. Ravens and Bengals have upgraded their passing game this offseason with Boldin and Gresham/Bryant.
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you want to compete in the AFC North you gotta run the ball and stop the run..we can do neither..and got worse at it..
This isn't your gradfathers AFC Central, it's not as simple as running and stopping the run.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Browns 1st Round Pick: Joe Haden
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