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I think most of us were excited when we drafted Quinn. I know that I was. But I also don't watch a lot of college football. Knowing he was one of the top two college QBs in the draft that year, I thought he must be good, and I figured we were on our way to becoming that team we all want to be. Make no mistake, we will never get there until we solve the QB issue. It's as close to fact as there is in the NFL. Solve the QB issue and the wins will start coming.
Now I know many of us want to believe that McCoy can be that guy. I know that I do.
So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
What are the key differences between the two guys, if any?
And will those differences be enough to be a successful QB?
Discuss.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I WIN I WIN I WIN  Bet my wife that before 1pm today, someone would put up a thread comparing Quinn and McCoy.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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i think colt is everything brady was sold to us (smart, hard worker, leader, accurate, etc) except it won't be a lie and colt will actually be liked by his teammates. whether he pans out is another story but colt didn't get hyped up because the media couldn't call him "pro-ready," as if that meant something.
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My opinion...
The competition that Colt played against week in and week out was far superior to what Quinn faced at ND. Throwing TD's against Army is a lot easier than against the Ravens. Colt had to compete against real college competition. And he won. More than any other QB in NCAA history.
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Quote:
Bet my wife that before 1pm today, someone would put up a thread comparing Quinn and McCoy.....
What was the bet?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I think Quinn was told he had it all and was THE MAN and he bought it hook line and sinker.
Colt may have been told some of this and if so I'm not sure he bought into it. Pretty humble kid overall and those Texans...man they aint afraid of hard work!
Not that Brady didn't work hard mind you. I get the feeling Colt is a bit more grounded, not so full of himself and very humble. I'm not sure we ever knew the REAL BQ as if he put up a front and was really a conceited punk. I might be wrong but that's just a gut feeling.
Overall factor: This team is building and if all goes well in his developement should be ready for Colt when Colt is ready for the NFL.
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Was Quinn's accuracy an issue coming out of college? I don't remember it being much of an issue until last season. IIRC he was hyped as being a franchise QB... Brady and Jamarcus. Many of us thought it was a great move at the time. Turns out there was a reason he fell so far. remember how PO-ed the Dolphis fans were when they drafted Ginn, with all of them thinking it was gonna be Quinn? I'd laugh but it is still painful. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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When Quinn came out, the big things for him were that he played in a pro style offense under Charlie Weiss, he had prototypical size, was incredibly hard working, and he was smart. His accuracy and arm were the only things that were really critiqued. All of that is true, but he didn't have the accuracy and downfield ability to be a good player.
McCoy is touted as hard working, extremely accurate, and mobile (which Quinn also had, though not as good). He doesn't have a very strong arm, he played in a sprad offense (so at the least he will need time to adjust) and he is small.
Basically, the only system McCoy can really succeed in is the west coast offense. With the Browns likely running that, I'm okay with the pick, but not ecstatic.
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Quote:
Bet my wife that before 1pm today, someone would put up a thread comparing Quinn and McCoy.....
I think the opinions of those who watch a lot of college football are interesting to those of us who don't watch a lot of college football. I personally would like to get opinions on why it might be different with McCoy than Quinn.
You could have just answered in your customary way ... would have added just as much to the thread ...
[daman]maybe he'll be better ... maybe he won't ... i don't know ... could be ... or he couldn't be ... i can't believe anyone can say that either way right now ... i read where holmgren said ... maybe holmgren's right ... maybe holmgren's wrong ... i don't know ... we'll have to see ... but heckert made the pick ... maybe heckert's right ... maybe heckert's wrong ... we'll have to see ....[/daman]
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think the biggest difference (and probably the most important) is the situation these kids were, or are, being brought into.
Quinn was brought into a situation where Anderson and Frye were already in the midst of a heated QB contoversy(not to mention the overall unhealthy state of the franchise at that time) and he was somehow supposed to come in here and resolve all these issues somewhat quickly. We all know how that turned out.
McCoy will not nearly have to take on that kind of pressure or responsibility.He can comfortably do exactly what is expected of him. Sit, wait,learn and develop.
This alone almost guarantees a much higher rate of success for McCoy.
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Quote:
So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't
Accuracy.
A quick release.
A history of throwing to a spot before a receiver gets open instead of waiting for them to get open and then throwing.
And most of all: A 3rd round label instead of a first round "Savior" label. If McCoy doesn't work out, no big deal.... and I fully expect us to still draft yet another QB in the mid-rounds next year.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Accuracy will take u a looooong way in the NFL...
Go Browns!!!
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One of the more exciting things to me is that McCoy seems to know how to throw to a spot .... and has the ball in the air before the receiver makes his break.
I am concerned about the number of wounded duck passes I see. Wobble here and there ..... those are complete in college, but get picked off in the NFL.
I think that he has some tools .... but lacks certain others. Can he overcome size and strength issues? Sure he "can". Will he though? That is the big question.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't
Accuracy.
A quick release.
A history of throwing to a spot before a receiver gets open instead of waiting for them to get open and then throwing.
And most of all: A 3rd round label instead of a first round "Savior" label. If McCoy doesn't work out, no big deal.... and I fully expect us to still draft yet another QB in the mid-rounds next year.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I can't question Quinn's work ethic, because he had it, but he seemed to "play scared" to me. You can't do that in the NFL.
Part of it is the offense Colt ran, but his completion % is huge indicator of his accuracy. You just don't complete over 75% of your passes (followed by over 70% the next year) without being accurate no matter what offense you run.
Totally agree on the "savior" stuff...and I think that may have a positive effect in the locker room as well.
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Wobble here and there ..... those are complete in college, but get picked off in the NFL.
I think that he has some tools .... but lacks certain others. Can he overcome size and strength issues? Sure he "can". Will he though? That is the big question.
And that is why he was bottom half of the 3rd round instead of top half of the 1st round.
Arm strength can be improved if you work at it (as has been noted with the Drew Brees example). Size is something he has already worked around his whole life. Given the conference he played in, he is already accustomed to working behind giants.... that part isn't going to be anything new to him.
There is a boatload of potential there, and we have a coach that knows how to get a QB to realize their potential.... if that arm strength thing improves, we may have something good.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
and we have a coach that knows how to get a QB to realize their potential
Mangini? Daboll? Carl Smith?
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Quote:
Quote:
and we have a coach that knows how to get a QB to realize their potential
Mangini? Daboll? Carl Smith?
I don't care how many times Holmgren says he WON'T coach Colt up...he will keep close tabs and have great input. Furthermore Gil Haskell will coach Colt,
I'd bet on it.
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Just for comparison sake, here's the numbers on their college careers:
BRADY QUINN STATS
Passing Rushing
Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rating Att Yds Avg TD
2006 467 289 61.9 3,426 37 7 146.7 82 71 0.9 2
2005 450 292 64.9 3,919 32 7 158.4 70 90 1.3 1
2004 353 191 54.1 2,586 17 10 125.9 54 -4 -0.1 3
2003 332 157 47.3 1,831 9 15 93.5 48 25 0.5 0
4 yr 1602 929 58.0 11,762 95 39 134.4 254 182 0.7 6
COLT MCCOY STATS
Passing Rushing
Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rating Att Yds Avg TD
2009 470 332 70.6 3,521 27 12 147.4 129 348 2.7 3
2008 433 332 76.7 3,859 34 8 173.8 136 561 4.1 11
2007 424 276 65.1 3,303 22 18 139.2 114 492 4.3 4
2006 318 217 68.2 2,570 29 7 161.8 68 170 2.5 2
4 yr 1645 1157 70.3 13,253 112 45 155.0 447 1,571 3.5 20
Sorry, I tried to format it to line up the columns, but it didn't take.
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So, in terms of things like Completion %, Quinn's best year (64.9%) still falls short of McCoy's worst year (65.1%)... that's encouraging. I don't like the INT numbers of McCoy in comparison, but I'll take seasons of 27:12 TD:INT ratio every damn year for sure. McCoy also put up his numbers against some heavier-duty competition....
In short, I would say that the two don't compare at all except that they've both been recently selected by the Browns.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
What was the bet?
She washes my Z.....LOL 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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oh btw I don't watch college ball so I didn't have much to offer with respect to your question. Good thread, though. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens, but maybe that's just me.  kiddin ya, daman.
gmstrong -----------------
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You could have just answered in your customary way ... would have added just as much to the thread ...
maybe...you should learn to take a joke and not take life so serious..
MY opinion on the difference is expectation.
The expectation on Quinn were high given his draft status.. McCoy, not so much.
McCoy played more games, better stats, TD/INT ratio is better.
Beyond that,, he appears to be more accurate. and has already been said, that will carry a guy a long long way in the NFL...
Are you happy now...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Just for comparison sake, here's the numbers on their college careers:
...................Passing.............................................................................Rushing
...............Att......Comp....Pct.........Yds........TD.....Int....Rating........Att......Yds....Avg....TD
BQ4 yr....1602.....929.....58.0.......11,762......95.....39....134.4........254.....182....0.7......6
CM4 yr....1645....1157....70.3.......13,253.....112....45....155.0........447...1,571....3.5....20
#GMSTRONG
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Quinn, throwing against the powerhouses on an average Notre Dame schedule averaged 7.34 yards/attempt.
McCoy averaged 8.06 .... against much better competition.
How did McCoy do with the downfield passing game?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Similar skills, cheaper contract.
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u win the gold star, thanks
#gmstrong
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Quote:
My opinion...
The competition that Colt played against week in and week out was far superior to what Quinn faced at ND. Throwing TD's against Army is a lot easier than against the Ravens. Colt had to compete against real college competition. And he won. More than any other QB in NCAA history.
UT is in the Big 12 but that's still not a GREAT schedule... They have OU which is a fantastic defensive school, then Ok State which is a pretty good team... A&M always plays them tough, but doesn't have much of a defense... and Colt looked awful in the toughest game of the year again Nebraska... he had 3 INTs and 0 TDs. In the OU game this year he looked awful as well... barely made 100 yards... so in against the two best defenses he saw he had right around 300 yards, one TD, and 4 INTs...
I will say they didn't have many weapons this year so I think that hurt Colt.
I think Colt is a good QB and am cheering for him... but UTs schedule hasn't been that hard over the past four years. They seem to have two or three really tough game and then some cake walk. Three of their first four games last year were LA-Monroe, Wyoming and UTEP...
I will say I won't forget his game against the Buckeyes in the Rose Bowl... threw the game winning TD with 16 seconds left... still hurts.... and he did have over 400 yards in that game... against a pretty good Buckeye defense. (but I'm biased)
<><
#gmstrong
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..." Are you happy now... " I am 
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Quote:
How did McCoy do with the downfield passing game?
He can't throw it downfield...he lacks some arm AND confidence to do so. That will be a big problem, esp. in winter games...he IS much more accurate than Quinn, so he isn't completely useless but he is what he is: a dink 'n' dunk-QB....his lack of downfield threat will make him a 1 trick pony QB pretty quick in this league...that's why I don't wanted him, even though I think he will have a nice borderline starter to backup career thanks to his accuracy and intangibles
The best we can hope for is a Chad Pennington or Jake Plummer type guy but he's smaller than those, which is another problem....lack of height and arm size...he's just NOT a franchise QB, that's why he wasn't drafted in the Top75
The value where we got him is ok if he pans out the way I think he can....the problem I have with picking him up is fan expectation and maybe even organizational expectation...nfl.com had a headline after day 2: "Browns get their franchise QB in round 3"....stuff like that has me concerned....if we suck again this season and pick in the Top10 next draft I don't want to pass on a possible franchise QB because of McCoy....
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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He can't throw it downfield...he lacks some arm AND confidence to do so.
Well, he lacks the arm. However, Colt is sometimes too confident when throwing the ball.
That being said, McCoy isn't going to be launching 50 yard bombs down the field, but he can hit the long ball when he needs it. Sometimes the ball floats on him when he throws it long, though, so he isn't always accurate.
His long ball needs some work, but it won't kill his career.
you had a good run Hank.
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shouldn't McCoy be compared to Charlie Frye?
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..." Are you happy now... "
I am
LOL Glad I made someones day
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
shouldn't McCoy be compared to Charlie Frye?
Good point. Charlie is bigger, faster, better arm strength, more exsperence. And wasn't given a shot behind a good line. Pretty much the same for BQ. I would rather have either one over the Coltster.
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Quote:
Quote:
Bet my wife that before 1pm today, someone would put up a thread comparing Quinn and McCoy.....
What was the bet?
Not sure i want to know 
There are no sacred cows.
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rishuz... u should be shot for making this thread.. (not literally though  ) McCoy is a winner. Simple.
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Quote:
Quote:
shouldn't McCoy be compared to Charlie Frye?
Good point. Charlie is bigger, faster, better arm strength, more exsperence. And wasn't given a shot behind a good line. Pretty much the same for BQ. I would rather have either one over the Coltster.
I had to read this about 10 times to make sure I was reading it correctly.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
Well, we don't have any pictures of McCoy grabbing another guy's bozak and smiling in a pink Polo. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
shouldn't McCoy be compared to Charlie Frye?
Good point. Charlie is bigger, faster, better arm strength, more exsperence. And wasn't given a shot behind a good line. Pretty much the same for BQ. I would rather have either one over the Coltster.
Charlie got to start behind the 07 line and got murderized. That's right, murderized. He couldn't read a defense and resulted in running like a chicken with his head cut off.
Some people will never admit that Frye stunk. Same thing with Quinn.
you had a good run Hank.
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I think we are putting the cart before the horse, and this is exactly why Holmgren will sit McCoy for a year.
The positives are that McCoy has accuracy, and appears to be a good decision maker. He has demonstrated all that is necessary of a college QB.
Quinns downfall was that he could not place the ball downfield, and resorted to dinks and dunks. His decision making was not very good and he did not have the confidence to trust his ability, if he had it.
If McCoy learns the game, and has the talent to place the ball appropriately, he will be more sucessful than Quinn.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
j/k
McCoy can give us wins in the future.....Quinn is a Denver Bronco,
For me, it's time to move forward, we tried it didnt work,
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn vs. McCoy
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