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shouldn't McCoy be compared to Charlie Frye?
Good point. Charlie is bigger, faster, better arm strength, more exsperence. And wasn't given a shot behind a good line. Pretty much the same for BQ. I would rather have either one over the Coltster.
Hahaha, you must be joking...........
I thought Charlie Frye's biggest strength was the he was a "gamer", so while he looked bad in practice, he got the job done in the game.
But really, he's more accurate with better arm strength? You've got to be kidding me? Plus you say he's faster?
Did you watch Frye at Akron? His biggest asset really was his "leadership skills" and "intangibles" IMO. He threw touch passes that weren't particularly accurate.
You know who I compare to Frye, Dan Lefevor. Notice he was picked like round 6 (thank god those saying round 3 weren't listened to!)
As for Quinn vs McCoy, Quinn turned about to be rediculously innaccurate, i dunno if that's because of screwed up footwork or what, but his short throws weren't even that on target. And that's all he threw. That's why he isn't on this team, he couldn't move the ball down the field. Now our WRs could have done more to help him, but it's a two way street, he could have done more to help them/himself too.
Quinn's greatest asset probably was that he didn't throw many INTs considering how bad his throws sometimes were.
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So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
j/k
McCoy can give us wins in the future.....Quinn is a Denver Bronco,
For me, it's time to move forward, we tried it didnt work,
I didn't create the thread with the intent of not moving forward.
But many of us were terribly wrong about Quinn. I'm wondering if we have any reason to have some hope in McCoy.
That question could have been asked independently of Quinn, but I thought it was a good way to get some context into the equation.
I'm happy Quinn is gone.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
Serious answer:
He was drafted by the Holmgren regime, not the Savage regime.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
Serious answer:
He was drafted by the Holmgren regime, not the Savage regime.
Can you expand on that? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
you had a good run Hank.
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Oh come on ... I expect more from you than that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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To you, Rish, and BigBad...........It's a pretty serious answer.
Comparing the two leaders of the organization, the resume's read like Heaven and Hell when talked about in terms of QB's they liked, tutored, and developed.
One had Favre, Brunell, Brooks, and Hasselbeck.
One had Russell, Anderson, Frye, and Quinn.
If there's one thing that gives Colt hope over Quinn, it's that he's not a primma-donna lil' beoch. I'd known for several seasons Quinn was that. Colt is the antithesis of Captain Checkdown in that regard, and it's very important.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Not to speak for Toad .... but I find that Holmgren going way out there to make sure that this kid got drafted by his team speaks a great deal to his confidence that McCoy can be a good one.
Holmgren has also worked with developing a great number of QBs ... and I do feel a bit more comfortable knowing that he is the guy who made the final decision.
Savage came from a system that never found a QB while he was there. Holmgren has found several. I think he has far more "QB Credibility".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How was I wrong on Quinn? I didn't like him, I hoped I was wrong. I don't have respect for offensive skilled position players from Notre Dame after the year 2000, here is why.
Say you grew up 10 yrs old it is 1999, you dream about playing football, you are the future Qb, you dream about playing college football, Where do the top players go to college wise. 1 Miami, 2 Florida, 3 Usc, 4 Floirida ST, 5 Texas, 6 Oklahoma, 7, a hometown school, other schools, and waaay down the list you'd pick Notre Dame.
Notre Dame is situated Just right to get the Worst of the top tier players while not bad enough to get the best of the 2nd tier players, like
Mich st, or Marshall, or Utah, or Arizona St.
This wasn't the case prior to 2000, or 1990, Notre Dame used to be a top 3 destination for high school talent.
Colt Mccoy is a future Cleveland Brown.
Mccoy should be compared to Tim Couch more than to Frye or Quinn.
McCoy is the 3rd best Qb in the 2010 draft, Couch was the 3rd best Qb in the 99 draft ( or 4th)
Unfortunatly the Browns will have to make lemonade out of lemons when it comes to their receivers, no matter who the quarterback is.
Maybe Carlton Mitchell can be Countrytime, the lemonade brand.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Unfortunatly the Browns will have to make lemonade out of lemons when it comes to their receivers, no matter who the quarterback is.
Mohamed Massaquoi, as a rookie wide receiver with two crappy QB's, had 624 yards and 3 TD's.
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So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
Accuracy and anticipation skills….
In both these areas Quinn was horrible, even in college with receivers running wide open Quinn never made accurate throws.
Anybody who really watched Quinn in college should know he lacked anticipation skills, and at the pro level Quinn was exposed.
Mark my words Quinn isn’t even a good backup and won’t be in the league in another 2-3 years tops….. 
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
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Quinn, throwing against the powerhouses on an average Notre Dame schedule averaged 7.34 yards/attempt.
McCoy averaged 8.06 .... against much better competition.
How did McCoy do with the downfield passing game?
McCoy also played with much more talent around him at important positions.
That can't be ignored in this discussion.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Notre Dame is situated Just right to get the Worst of the top tier players while not bad enough to get the best of the 2nd tier players
wait a second, are you trying to say the worst of the 1st tier players are not as good as the best of the 2nd tier players?
do you understand how a tier ranking system works?
#gmstrong
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I'm not saying Frye or Quinn are or will be better QB than McCoy. I'm saying they wern't given a fair shot. Besides once he throws an int alot of you will be jumping off the Coltster's bandwagon. I don't understand how fFreys and Quinn's noodle armbothered you guys so much but you are ok with Colts. I know, I know West Coast off. I think alot of you maybe even Toad are thinking Colt is our QB of the future Myself, I not ready to put that much faith in a 3rd round undersized, weak armed runt. I think our Qb is still out there.
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I don't get the fair shot thing with Frye and Quinn. Seems they were given too many chances in my book. All the evidence you need is out there. Is Frye even still in the NFL? And Quinn is the backup on a team that drafted a major QB project in the first round as the future of their franchise.
I mean sometimes it's a simple as the guys just aren't that good.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quinn, throwing against the powerhouses on an average Notre Dame schedule averaged 7.34 yards/attempt.
McCoy averaged 8.06 .... against much better competition.
How did McCoy do with the downfield passing game?
McCoy also played with much more talent around him at important positions.
That can't be ignored in this discussion.
But the fact they don't play Army, Navy and Girl Scout Troop #49 can't be.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I don't get the fair shot thing with Frye and Quinn. Seems they were given too many chances in my book. All the evidence you need is out there. Is Frye even still in the NFL? And Quinn is the backup on a team that drafted a major QB project in the first round as the future of their franchise.
I mean sometimes it's a simple as the guys just aren't that good.
You might be right. Probably are right. I'm just saying I thought I was seeing some improvement in Quinn at the end of last year.
I think you are all putting to much hope on Colt being our QB of the future. Maybe Holgrem drafted him thinking he will be a good backup in the West Coast offense. He seems like a kid with his share of guts and probably football smart but I don't see him as a starter. Not sure how Holgrem sees him. Hope I'm wrong. I would probably be saying the same thing about Brees if he was coming out this year. Shows you what I know, but how many 6' fragile looking QBs not named Brees are starters in the NFL. The game has changed in the last couple of years. Montana. Young, even Garcia are old school. I think our QB is coming next year. How about Locker?
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I'm not saying Frye or Quinn are or will be better QB than McCoy. I'm saying they wern't given a fair shot. Besides once he throws an int alot of you will be jumping off the Coltster's bandwagon. I don't understand how fFreys and Quinn's noodle armbothered you guys so much but you are ok with Colts. I know, I know West Coast off. I think alot of you maybe even Toad are thinking Colt is our QB of the future Myself, I not ready to put that much faith in a 3rd round undersized, weak armed runt. I think our Qb is still out there.
Come on man!
I don't really think anybody but the media has him "penciled in" as our great, future franchise QB.
What I have him as is a "potential" franchise QB depending on his development. He has all the raw tools and is hardly a runt. lmao
Unless of course if you think a couple of inches in height makes you a runt.
The fact is, where he was drafted does not make it "essential" that he becomes our franchise QB. As I mentioned earlier................................
They'll have a year to develop Colt. To see how quickly and ready he is over the course of that year. To see his ability in the pro offense. To see how he measures up.
We saw what Baltimore did by drafting a QB in the third. A year later they drafted a QB in round 1. They now have a great one/two punch at the QB position. Everybody doesn't freak out if their #1 guy goes down because they have a very compitant back up.
A lot of teams don't have that. Many would envy that. So what we have here is options. If McCoy develops as some feel he very well may, then we will have that franchise QB on the cheap. If he does not, we have a very compitant back-up with a very cheap and friendly contract for us.
Being a late third rounder, it's not boom or bust. It's either win big or just win. A very smart move considering the potential and where he was picked.
Some can't see the forest for the trees. In Colt's case, we might have the forest. Yet even some trees would make him well worthy of a late third round pick.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Thats pretty much what I was trying to say Pit. He might turn into Drew Brees( i'm not holding my breath) but if not Brees maybe Troy Smith.
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Colt is the antithesis of Captain Checkdown 'Calling all Captains!!" 
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Since Friday I have watched ALOT of McCoy...And it's not all bad stuff...It's just not available...The GOOD stuff is all u will see...Including YOU Mr. Tadpole...Dat b YOU Toad...
I see alot of flutter balls Toad...And that's what u harp on the most...Cool...
And I agree with u...I've held and thrown both Collegiate footballs and the NFL version...The NFL version is without question a smaller ball given girth...No doubt about it...Slicker also...I don't know who's questioning that with u but it's a FACT...
This is also a FACT...
One thing I notice noone has mentioned over the months is McCoy's "TOUCH"...He has a great touch on lobs into the endzone...
U keep harping on this Wobbler crap...U don't think this is correctable???...I don't think you're that damn gullible...Cause I can take a NFL football...Grip it one way and toss...Perfect Spiral...Then move ONE FINGER...ONE INCH toward the rear and it wobbles every time I throw...
You're worried about that...I ain't cause it is GUARANTEED CORRECTABLE...Flutter is nothing to a QB who has a Coach who actually KNOWS HOW TO CORRECT IT...Which leads me to the next point...
Carl Smith...GET RID OF THIS CHUMP...
I'd love to say I'm wrong...But HOW does a dude like this ever hold a job in the NFL as a QB Coach????...When he's been a QB himself for all of 2 years...And at Bakersfield College, where he played quarterback from 1966-67.
Sorry...If I was any type of top tier collegiate QB coming to Cleveland I would virtually LMAO at Smith...Holmgren needs to make his point about this one...And do it THIS YEAR...
Go Browns!!!
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Wow .... What's up with the Carl Smith venom?
He has 19 years NFL coaching experience, and quite a bit of college experience before that. From everything I have ever seen and read, he's a pretty well respected coach.
Playing a position doesn't mean you will, or will not be a good coach. Hell, Bill Cower was a backup linebacker and special teams guy for us.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Playing a position doesn't mean you will, or will not be a good coach. Hell, Bill Cower was a backup linebacker and special teams guy for us.
Cower also ran an entire team...
Smith is a QB Coach...Doesn't that mean u TEACH QB's???
This always rings in my head...How can one TEACH something they've never done themselves???
His longest tenure as a QB Coach appears to be 86-96 in New Orleans...Who was QB then???...Need to look...Is that part of the Aint's days???...Or Everette???
Go Browns!!!
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J/C
I thought this would be a thread about who's name sounded more Irish. I worked with a kid once who was obviously proud of his heritage. I asked him if he ever fought another guy over who was more Irish, he gave the correct answer. Great kid.
You guys should drink a bottle of Bushmills, then yammer about these two.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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J/C
I thought this would be a thread about who's name sounded more Irish. I worked with a kid once who was obviously proud of his heritage. I asked him if he ever fought another guy over who was more Irish, he gave the correct answer. Great kid.
You guys should drink a bottle of Bushmills, then yammer about these two.
Let's just hope there aren't any defensive ends named Hatfield.
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So what does McCoy bring to the table that Quinn didn't that can give us a ray of hope that he can someday be the guy?
Accuracy and winning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_McCoy#Statistics
He also swam 300 yards (3 football fields) across a lake to help save the life of a man having a seizure.
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What are the key differences between the two guys, if any?
Accuracy and McCoy has yet to be a hold-out.
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And will those differences be enough to be a successful QB?
McCoy is smart, wins, and can throw it where he intends to throw it, completing better than 7 in every 10 passes in his entire collegiate career. Notably, one of the people he was throwing the ball to was drafted #84 overall in the draft, one spot ahead of him.
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Well hopefully the team can give McCoy a chance. As hopefully McCoy will developed into a great QB. Hopefully he won't turn into Tim Couch!
May Day, May Flowers, Memorial and Mother's Day!
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Well hopefully the team can give McCoy a chance. As hopefully McCoy will developed into a great QB. Hopefully he won't turn into Tim Couch!
Bad comparison.
Maybe Charlie Frye.
you had a good run Hank.
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As Frye's #1 and probably harshest critic during his days as a member of the Cleveland Browns .... I do have to say one thing about Frye and the short passing game.
I never had a problem with a ball control, short passing game. What I had a problem with was the fact that Frye would, damn near without fail, throw a 3rd down pass 1-2 yards short of the mark. Damn near every time. It was disgusting. He would also run into as many sacks as he ran out of. He had no clue what was happening down the field.
I had similar complaints with Quinn. (outside of the running into sacks thing ... although his pocket presence still wasn't the greatest)
I could be an NFL QB if all I had to do was complete passes short of the 1st down marker. I could do that, probably 3 downs in a row ... and punt. The problems I saw with those 2 QBs had nothing to do with arm strength .... it has to do with being willing and able to attack the defense ... and to see and understand what the defense is doing. That is where both Frye and Quinn failed. Once the ball was snapped, neither had a clue, and they went short, shorter, shortest no matter how many yards we needed.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I mean sometimes it's a simple as the guys just aren't that good.
That sounds just about right.
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Good question.
On paper I don't think there is a big difference as far as skill set.
Both have a rep as having a bit less arm than desired...though Colt may be more accurate.
So from a skills standpoint, I would say they are about the same guy.
What I don't know is if Colt has the type of personality that ticks off his team mates as BQ had and we will have to find out if Colt brings game or not....
In the end, both guys have the skill set to be good qb's, though I think BQs window to demonstrate the ability is closing while Colt's is just beginning to open.
I'd much rather spend the next 3 years seeing if Colt brings game then spend another 3 years goofing around with Quinn.
Quinn needed out. Fresh start, new beginning. Sometimes that is what it takes. I doubt he would have ever done well here as the mojo was set. New surroundings, he still has a shot to capture his dream, so if he goes on to great things, no loss of sleep here.
Just the way it goes sometimes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Not sure how Holgrem sees him. †br />
We kinda do.
We know for a FACT he doesn't view him as a sure-fire prospect.
How do we know that?
Holmgren flat-out stated he pulled rank to get him, which establishes the fact that if he wants something, he's going to get it.
So, McCoy is there in the 1st. We pass. He's there in the 2nd. We pass AGAIN.
In short, we had plenty of opportunity to take him in the rounds where teams select guys they feel are franchise QB's. We didn't. This is an indictment against his tools, because all the other intangibles are great.
By pulling-rank and taking him in the 3rd, Holmgren acknowledged how much he liked Colt the guy and some of Colt's tools. But because he didn't go after him earlier, he's also saying his tools aren't special.
In short, Holmgren liked him enough to gamble a 3rd rounder, but not enough to flat-out say he's going to be a starter. In a league where "surefire" QB prospects fail at a 50% clip, anyone else is a longshot.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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he also has said that getting colt doesn't preclude us getting someone else next year.
while non-"surefire" candidates fail at a substantial rate, i'm hopeful that having holmgren select the guy helps our odds some.
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It can be argued that nobody in the NFL right now knows QB's better than Holmgren. If Colt has a chance to become a starter, that chance is going to be maximized with Holmgren putting him under his wing.
As a side note, anyone that doesn't believe Holmgren won't get involved with McCoy are fooling themselves.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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STOP IT,, your confusing me First you say this: Quote:
We know for a FACT he doesn't view him as a sure-fire prospect.
Then
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Holmgren flat-out stated he pulled rank to get him, which establishes the fact that if he wants something, he's going to get it.
SO he isn't sure he's a "sure fire prospect" but he pulled rank to get him and risk causing a potential rift or divide in his staff?
Maybe I'm reading that wrong,, maybe you have a typo.. not sure
Holmgren strikes me as more of a concensus builder rather than a dictator type.
#GMSTRONG
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What you don't know is Colt McCoy. This guy is DRIVEN to achieve his goals. He will get the play book, go to camp, and show much of what Holmgron wants in his qb. McCoy will be making it tough to sit him on the bench. Is he going to be good enough to be #1? I'm not sure, but I am certainly not ruling it out. He will be every bit as good as Wallace by the end of training camp.
In his pro day, no balls hit the ground -- including some 50 yard throws. If the receiver catches the ball, who cares if it wobbles? If it goes for a td, who cares if it wobbled or if the receiver caught a 5-yard pass and ran 90 yards for a td? All you want is a qb that can get the job done. And that is exactly what I like about Colt McCoy in any situation -- on or off the field -- he knows what has to be done and he achieves his goals.
Just hide and watch. He will still be there when St. Tebow is gone and when Clausen is gone.
McCoy is a winner! Just ask all the qb's -- including Bradford -- who have lost to the winningest qb in NCAA history.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 |
Quote:
Maybe I'm reading that wrong,, maybe you have a typo.. not sure
Read it again, slower this time. He explained it fully.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
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Quote:
In his pro day, no balls hit the ground -- including some 50 yard throws. If the receiver catches the ball, who cares if it wobbles?
The swirling wind in Cleveland Browns Stadium cares if it wobbles.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
j/c in,....I think the major difference will show in 2 years, when McCoy will have had a better Holmgren-built football team to play amongst/with than Quinn could have ever dreamed of having in the past two,...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
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Read it again, slower this time. He explained it fully.
Yeah, I'm missing his point.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
Quote:
Read it again, slower this time. He explained it fully.
Yeah, I'm missing his point.
Don't worry about that. When somebody is trying to cover both sides of the fence it's a little hard keeping up with "what they really mean" sometimes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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