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I think McCoy was the appropriate pick for the third round. The Browns picked him at the right spot. I think that Holmgren's discussion of his reasoning was about as frank as it could be. Some would have been happy if he would have been picked at 38 and before Clausen.
We will know a bit more after the preseason and more after next years draft. I don't think his selection would preclude another selection if a QB was on the board that we liked.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I do think Colt's progression will determine "where" we may choose a QB next year.
If he develops lights out and they view him as our future franchise QB, I don't see them putting a huge investment at the QB position in the draft next year.
If his progression is to the point they're still on the fence about him, I think their investment could be much higher.
I feel our first glimpse of what they "really think" about Colt McCoy will be during next years draft. The higher they draft a QB next year, the less faith they have in Colt. The lower they pick, the more confidence they have in Colt.
The proof is in the pudding. And that pudding is the NFL draft.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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STOP IT,, your confusing me 
First you say this:
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We know for a FACT he doesn't view him as a sure-fire prospect.
Then
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Holmgren flat-out stated he pulled rank to get him, which establishes the fact that if he wants something, he's going to get it.
SO he isn't sure he's a "sure fire prospect" but he pulled rank to get him and risk causing a potential rift or divide in his staff?
Maybe I'm reading that wrong,, maybe you have a typo.. not sure
Holmgren strikes me as more of a concensus builder rather than a dictator type.
No typo's, D, and you are reading it wrong.
"Surefire" prospects are taken in the 1st round. By not taking him in the 1st or even the 2nd round, our entire organization stated without hesitation that they didn't view him as a good bet to make it.
Now before you ask how we know that, just realize Holmgren could have stepped in at any time to "ask" that we select him. But he didn't. He waited until the 3rd round, a round where franchise QB's are rarely found. As noted, if you're not taken in the first two rounds, the odds are severe that you'll be a starting QB for the team that drafted you. That isn't opinion. It's fact. Anyone can look it up.
Now, D, back to the idea that your not so sure about. Keep in mind that Holmgren could have pulled rank and gotten Colt in the 1st. He didn't. He could have pulled rank and gotten him in the 2nd. He didn't. He could have pulled rank and traded up to get him sooner than where we got him. He didn't. All he did was ask that we take him in the 3rd round. That doesn't mean Holmgren views him as a franchise guy.
As for NewDawg's comments, I know Colt the player and his history better than probably anyone here. Preaching to me about his "pro day" results isn't going to convince me or anyone else.
Where Colt was taken speaks quite clearly what the rest of the league thought of him. He has a chance, but it's not a good one. All Holmgren thought was that for a 3rd rounder he was a worthwhile gamble. Nothing more.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I would stick to the reasonings that that was one of the most overhyped and valued Quarterback drafts in recent memory. Quinn shouldn't have been drafted any higher than the third.. Quinn never Got it and doesn't have it. What Colt brings to the table as far as what you want out of a QB and a leader is far superior to anything Brady will ever dream of in my opinion. Colt's arm isn't a laser, but his accuracy is unmatched. He is a gamer through and through. He will put it all on the table and has that drive that won't allow him to fail. he had I believe 13 Come from behind wins. He doesn't make that critical mistake when the game is on the line. He rises to the occassion and is always under control. He can put the ball on the right shoulder at a high percentage, throws a beautiful fade, and will keep the play alive and find a receiver open down field. He makes decisions fast, and goes through his progressions rapidly has a great release and follow through. He can read a defense and has shown a knack to exploit them. He can make the calls at the line and runs the no huddle very efficiently. Colt has great pocket awareness. His biggest concerns are his size, but his arm is more than strong enough to pick you apart and then hit a deep one ala Kosar.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Wow, that's a whole lotta opinion there Toad.. Lots of "facts" presented that are more "belief" than actual fact..But that's ok,, that's your view and thats fine.
You seem to already be building a case that McCoy isn't the guy based, from what I can tell, on his draft position and your general opinion of his play in college.
Opinions vary, but warts and all, the kid was successful in college. Hard to deny that. He played some tough competition and still came out on top more often than not.
So basically, taking all these "facts" and stringing them together doesn't actually prove anything.. well, at least not to me..
I'll be sitting right here,, waiting for him to get a chance to play in a Browns Uniform to decide if like him or not or if I think he'll make it or not.
#GMSTRONG
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No, it doesn't "prove" anything... but it is some pretty solid, logical, deductive reasoning; and it makes one helluva lot more sense than someone claiming that McCoy is "The Guy".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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it makes one helluva lot more sense than someone claiming that McCoy is "The Guy".
Please note, I'm not one of the guys calling him "the guy" either. I don't know if he is or isn't. Haven't seen him in a Browns Uni yet. I'll reserve judgement until that time comes, IF that time comes..
I'll admit that I want him to be the guy.. not because of him,, but because the team needs "the guy" as soon as possible.. Nothing to do with the name on the jersey.... Nothing.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Where Colt was taken speaks quite clearly what the rest of the league thought of him.
Woah there big fella! 
This is a statement that even yourself knows better than to make.
Many teams had no need for a QB. NONE!
They had other dire needs at other positions and addressed their needs much like we did. There were only a handfull of teams actually needing a QB who would have realisticly drafted a QB in the first three rounds unless they thought he was the second coming of Peyton Manning.
And you very well know it Bud.
So this whole "what the rest of the league thought of him" holds zero merrit. And I honestly think you knew that when you were typing it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think McCoy was the appropriate pick for the third round. The Browns picked him at the right spot. I think that Holmgren's discussion of his reasoning was about as frank as it could be. Some would have been happy if he would have been picked at 38 and before Clausen.
We will know a bit more after the preseason and more after next years draft. I don't think his selection would preclude another selection if a QB was on the board that we liked.
How true. McCoy being taken in the third means he gets the time to actually learn to be an NFL quarterback before getting tossed on the fire. Is he The Chosen One? Who knows? We've got a couple of journeymen QB's so it doesn't really matter this year.
Should we get a chance for a better QB next year then by all means we should consider it.
If we start winning by blowout then we can put the 2nd teamer in to get some playing time. Our third string QB should never even get so much as a single snap in regular playing time. I've seen seasons where that happened and it wasn't that pretty at all. What we've seen in the last few years were acts of desperation when it came to QB choice.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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You seem to already be building a case that McCoy isn't the guy based, from what I can tell, on his draft position and your general opinion of his play in college.
Again, not true.
I'm stating, quite clearly, that the odds are against McCoy. Nothing more, nothing less.
You may not like the evidence, which is fine, but it's there.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Woah there big fella!
How do you know I'm Big, Pitt? I could be a petite, delicate flower. 
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This is a statement that even yourself knows better than to make.
Many teams had no need for a QB. NONE!
Doesn't matter.
The teams that DID need a QB would have found a way to move up to get a guy they viewed as a 1st rounder, had he in fact been a 1st rounder.
In short, a QB rated in the top-40 won't fall into the 80-range. Never. If you're a franchise-type QB prospect, you're gone in the first two rounds. Why? Because teams always move up to get that franchise guy. They don't wait and hope that he falls to the 3rd round.
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So this whole "what the rest of the league thought of him" holds zero merrit. And I honestly think you knew that when you were typing it.
I know just the opposite. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't believe it and know it to be the truth.
Here's a quiz for anyone that wants to play:
I haven't even considered it, but I'd like to know which was the last team to draft a QB in the 3rd round with the idea that he's going to become "The Man." The only team I can think of was Savage, and now Frye is about to be bounced from his 3rd team in three years, while Savage was doing radio and just recently caught on with the Eagles as nothing more than a glorified scout.
I'm genuinely curious what the last team was. I may look it up later out of morbid curiosity, though I may not because where McCoy went tells everyone what the league thought of him.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You may not like the evidence, which is fine, but it's there
It's not for me to like or dislike,, I just think it's not evidence of anything...
I don't believe you or I can predict with any degree of certainty who will or will not succeed.. (I'll grant you that you are probably way better at this than I am)
First off, there are just too damn many variables that you'd go nuts trying to account for and then place a value on.
Way too many variables... and no crystal ball...
In the end, if you could use the evidence you have and predict with any degree of accuracy what player would succeed,, you'd be wasting your time doing whatever it is you do for a living.. you should be working for the Browns....LOL
One thing,, Given that Holmgren is way more advanced in his knowledge base than you or I, I'd think that he's got a better chance of being right and whether he picked McCoy in the 1st or 7th.. he picked him.
The one question I'm waiting to be asked is,, do I really think McCoy is the answer? And I'll be perfectly honest.. I don't know. I really don't know.. but I hope so for the sake of the team,, we need a winner at that position.. and I'd sure like to have the search overwith.. but that doesn't mean I believe he's the answer.. cause I just don't know. There really isn't any evidence that can conclusively prove he will or won't...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I haven't even considered it, but I'd like to know which was the last team to draft a QB in the 3rd round with the idea that he's going to become "The Man." The only team I can think of was Savage, and now Frye is about to be bounced from his 3rd team in three years, while Savage was doing radio and just recently caught on with the Eagles as nothing more than a glorified scout.
Was going to submit Tarvaris Jackson in 2006, but looking him up, he was the last pick in the 2nd round (#64). Brad Childress traded two 3rds to move up and get him, so he was definitely *expected* to become the franchise QB (can't say the same about McCoy). Brad and Tarvaris are still there... pretty price to pay for a backup.
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So then it's your assertion that a team with other needs, that are "set" at the QB position would move up to round 2 in order to get a QB? I believe somehow we have a communication problem. I only really saw about four teams who needed a QB in the NFL this year. St. Loius picked theirs in round 1. Oakland chose the guy with experience and went the FA route. Denver did the BIG reach for Tebow. Carolina took Claussen in the second. Now after Carolina took Claussen, what other teams didn't have other needs to address and needed a QB? Those would be the ONLY teams who would have taken McCoy whoever you believe they are and has no impact on "how the rest of the league" views McCoy. Most of the league was not looking for, or interested in drafting a QB in the first four or five rounds anyway. So how they did or didn't view McCoy is a complete unknown. BTW- Woah there big fella is a figure of speech but a lot of yankees just aren't familiar with it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I know just the opposite. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't believe it and know it to be the truth.
Hmmm? I'm curious to know how you could be privy to the other 31 teams war rooms and where they had McCoy ranked?
For some reason you seem to be rather presistant so I don't doubt you believe you know. But I'm seriously interested in how you could?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It's not for me to like or dislike,, I just think it's not evidence of anything...
I don't believe you or I can predict with any degree of certainty who will or will not succeed.. (I'll grant you that you are probably way better at this than I am)
Well, "better" probably isn't the right word. I would say I probably spend more time trying to understand the variables in order to come to a more solidified and viable conclusion.
So, to that end, I think the numbers here speak for themselves. The biggest piece of evidence for my argument.........and it is evidence..........is to look around the league and see how many current teams have selected a QB in the 3rd round or later in the draft, and have that QB as their starting QB today.
The list is discouragingly short:
The Pats: Tom Brady, 6th round.
The Jags: David Garrard, 4th round.
The Cowboys: Tony Romo, Undrafted free agent.
That's it. (I'd mistakenly stated in an earlier thread that Matt Moore was taken by the Panthers. It turns out he was originally signed by the Cowboys).
What does this tell me?
It states that if you're drafted in the 3rd round or later by a team to play QB, you stand a very small chance of becoming that teams starting QB.
I wish it were otherwise, but it's not. It's hardcore evidence that can be twisted but not refuted.
Now, does this mean I think McCoy won't make it? It means I think his chances aren't very good. As I've said before, if there's a guy in the league who can give McCoy the best chance to succeed it's Holmgren. Still, that doesn't offer much hope that McCoy is going to make it and become our legitimate, long-term starting QB.
Now, to Pit:
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So then it's your assertion that a team with other needs, that are "set" at the QB position would move up to round 2 in order to get a QB?
I believe somehow we have a communication problem.
Clearly. 
It's my assertion that a teams with quarterback needs will find a way to get up into the first couple of rounds if there is a guy who is viewed as a "franchise" type. In other words, they won't be content to sit back and hope that a low-risk QB will fall to their laps in the 3rd round or later.
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Most of the league was not looking for, or interested in drafting a QB in the first four or five rounds anyway.
Hehhe.......I couldn't disagree more. Really low-risk QB's always go in the first couple of rounds. High-risk QB's go later. Just take a look at how many 3rd round or later QB's are starting for their current teams.
Besides, we don't have to look at the rest of the league. The Browns NEEDED a QB. We passed on not only Clausen but Colt multiple times. Only when some obscure DT went off the board did Holmgren ask to make the move.
That isn't the move of a man who viewed his guy as a low-risk QB. That's the move of a guy who was ready to gamble.
If I had not examined how the NFL acquires it's starting QB's, I might think Colt has a better chance than he really does. The problem is, I did my homework.
21 of the 32 teams drafted their starting QB's in the 2nd round or higher.
Only 3 teams out of 32 are starting a QB they drafted in the 3rd round or later. Those are long odds.
For those keeping score at home, that means Colt has a 9.4% chance of becoming the long-term starter for the Cleveland Browns.
Long odds indeed.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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while i'm hopeful that mccoy ended up being value instead of just us feeling we're taking a gamble.
if you want to take toad's point further, we were very willing to trade up to #1 overall to take bradford but were unwilling to trade from 2nd round into the 1st round, and again from 3rd round into the 2nd round to get mccoy. instead, we waited and saw he was available before selecting him.
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I do see where you come up with your conclusion. Don't like it, but I see it. 1. I think MH being here gives him a much better chance than 9.4%. How much better? I can't really say. 2. I've pretty much stated all along that IF McCoy turns out to be nothing more than a solid career back-up, we still gort him on the cheap. So I've never been "set in stone" that he's our franchise QB of the future. But I do have to give him better than the 9.4% because of MH. It's going to be an interesting thing to watch. I mean he has a much better skill set than say a Ken Dorsey ya know. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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is to look around the league and see how many current teams have selected a QB in the 3rd round or later in the draft, and have that QB as their starting QB today.
The list is discouragingly short:
The Pats: Tom Brady, 6th round.
The Jags: David Garrard, 4th round.
The Cowboys: Tony Romo, Undrafted free agent.
See, this is NOT evidence,, It's history.. History is telling you that the odds of his success are limited because historically, Successful Starting QB's aren't often found outside of the first or second round.
Don't confuse historical data with evidence.. Two different animals that DO NOT take variables into account.
Let me ask you this,, would Brett Farve been as successful as he was if it weren't for Holmgren and how he handled him? the answer is,, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY KNOW.. Cause it didn't happen that way.. that's a variable that you can't account for.
Also, you are just passing by 2nd rounder QB's that have been successful like Drew Brees.. and if you are going to look at history (not evidence) then why only look at those that are recent or current QB 's..
Sipe, 13th Round
Montana: 3rd round (if it matters to you at all, he was picked 82nd in that draft, McCoy was 85th)
Now that I brought those two guys up,, let me say this.. Montana and Sipe are NOT evidence that McCoy WILL be successful,, they are merely HISTORICAL DATA that says he could be..
You have no evidence...
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/28/10 07:48 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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1. I think MH being here gives him a much better chance than 9.4%. How much better? I can't really say.
Ah.....But how much better?
No, seriously, Pit, I agree. That's why I say if anyone can maximize Colt's chances, it's Holmgren. I wouldn't have a clue how to quantify how much more of a chance Holmgren gives McCoy, other than to say he helps.
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2. I've pretty much stated all along that IF McCoy turns out to be nothing more than a solid career back-up, we still gort him on the cheap.
See, that's where we disagree some more.
Damn...........and I thought we were making progress. 
Cheap, yes, in terms of money. Cheap, no, in terms of the pick used to get a "backup."
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It's going to be an interesting thing to watch. I mean he has a much better skill set than say a Ken Dorsey ya know.
Ok, now you're just being silly. EVERYONE knows Dorsey had a better skillset. Afterall, he is the winningest QB in the history of college football.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I just wanted to throw something on top of the 9% chance and having Holmgren here. Pluto reported a study that was done which came to the following conclusion: If a player plays in at least 40 games and has a completion percentage of at least 60% then he had a good chance of success in the NFL. Colt didn't just play in 40 games he won 45. He had an over 70% completion rate.
I don't think these stats prove anything, but I do think it bumps up Colt's odds a bit more.
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Well since your so well versed in statistical data.....  .....do you really think that many late third round picks end up to be long term NFL starters anyway? I mean as you have pointed out, QB's have far lesser likelihood of being starters in the third round. To some degree I believe that would hold true for other positions as well. Of course there's the acceptions of punter, kicker and long snapper. But otherwise, I'd say you're pretty likely to end up with a back-up in most cases in the late third round anyway. Probably not as low as 9.4%, but pretty low none the less. And in terms of quality depth, I'd say the QB position ranks pretty high there. jmho
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Just for grins .... and because I was bored ... or stupid ..... or something ..... Here are the 2nd - 4th round QBs for the 10 years from 2000-2009 ....... 2009: White 44 McGee 101 2008: Brohm 56 Henne 57 O'Connell 94 2007: Kolb 36 Beck 40 Stanton 43 Edwards 92 2006: Clemons 40 Jackson 64 Whitehurst 81 Croyle 85 2005: Frye 67 Greene 85 Orton 106 LeFors 121 2004: Schaub 80 Luke McCown 106 2003: Ragone 88 Simms 97 Walace 110 2002: Josh McCown 81 Garrard 108 Davey 117 2001: Brees 32 Carter 53 Tuiesosopo 59 2000: Carmazzi 65 Redman 75 Notables? Brees, Shaub, Orton and Henne start for thei teams. Kolb and Whitehurst will start this season. I think that Garrard is still starting in Jacksonville ..... but I really don't pay that much attention to them. lol That's 7 guys in 10 years. Some other guys were starters until they failed in that role. This would include guys like Frye, Edwards, Clemons, Jackson, Croyle, McCown, Simms, Wallace, Redman and Quincy Carter. That's 10 more. Out of 30 players taken in rounds 2-4 at the QB position .... that means that 13 never even saw the field in any meaningful way. What does it all mean? Who the heck knows.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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You can throw the recently retired Kurt Warner into the mix. Then also consider that its probably about 50/50 that DA starts over Leinart in Arizona unless they bring in someone else as the starter.
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For those keeping score at home, that means Colt has a 9.4% chance of becoming the long-term starter for the Cleveland Browns.
so yer sayin there's a CHANCE...
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First, Chinchy: Quote:
Pluto reported a study that was done which came to the following conclusion: If a player plays in at least 40 games and has a completion percentage of at least 60% then he had a good chance of success in the NFL. Colt didn't just play in 40 games he won 45. He had an over 70% completion rate.
I don't think these stats prove anything, but I do think it bumps up Colt's odds a bit more.
Those numbers are accurate. What many aren't aware of is that those numbers have existed before now. Those were the same numbers that prompted people to predict success for Quinn. Now that may look like a reason to try and knock Colt down, but it's not. I'm just noting that those stats are good predictors for success. It DOES give fans reason to think Colt can beat the odds. The flipside is that when most of those stats existed, the spread as it exists in college..........didn't exist. It's uncharted territory on both sides. People like Alex Smith are products of this newer system, a system which hides the weaknesses of QB's and accentuates what they do best.
Back to Pit...
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.....do you really think that many late third round picks end up to be long term NFL starters anyway?
I mean as you have pointed out, QB's have far lesser likelihood of being starters in the third round. To some degree I believe that would hold true for other positions as well.
That's true for left tackles, QB's, and CB's, but not for many other positions, less specialized positions, which is to say less important positions.
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But otherwise, I'd say you're pretty likely to end up with a back-up in most cases in the late third round anyway. Probably not as low as 9.4%, but pretty low none the less.
The difference is that while you can afford to fail on a 3rd round guard, which can be found via trade or free agency, if you fail on a QB, it's much harder to make up for the screwup.
Basically, the gamble on a QB in the 3rd is is a low-percentage move, much like trying to acquire a 3rd round left tackle, while a 3rd round RB or DE is much better.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I just hope and pray that someday the Browns find their franchise QB so threads like this will fade into memory... more like a nightmare.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Maybe in two or three years we can look back and say that one of ours finally beat the odds. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You can throw the recently retired Kurt Warner into the mix. Then also consider that its probably about 50/50 that DA starts over Leinart in Arizona unless they bring in someone else as the starter.
Well, I was just looking at 2nd to 4th round QBs ... not those drafted lhigher or lower, or those signed as undreafted free agents.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sorry, my reply should've been to Toad...bumps his percentage up to 12.5%!
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Nice post.... I tend to look at this a little differently. Clearly most qb's don't make it in the first round, and the stats just go to crap into later rounds. What you are looking at though is the qb only. While these stats show what actually happened, they tell far from the whole story. What is crucial imo, when you look at this stuff is the situation in regards to the rest of the team. One could argue that most qb's selected in the top 10 never pan out because they go to crappy teams, that have all sorts of problems You could also argue that they are rushed in when they aren't ready, and are ruined Or they get pummeled and suffer injuries. You could also argue that most qb's that are picked in the later rounds aren't destined to be starters, but are chosen as backups....how many of those guys never even got a shot to start? Then you have the whole rest of the team...say the defense sucks...well a qb is then forced to play from behind all the time...gets sacked, picked, you name it....the deck is stacked against him...same goes for a team with a crappy offensive line, or no running game. I think that the situation that a qb goes into factors greatly into the success ratio. I won't argue that if they thought that colt was a surefire starter that they wouldn't have went up and got him, but the situation that he walks into will play a far greater part in his chances of success, than his skill set that landed him in the 3rd round. maybe they drafted BPA just like they said they did. MH has stated he's gonna sit and learn... He'll have a offense based off the WCO, with veteran's all around....young receivers in their 3rd year...probably 4 linemen that have gelled, and decent rb's. hopefully a defense that will be pretty solid, that will be able to get off the field, and maybe even score some points... my point is that a qb's chance of success improves greatly if he is put into a good situation... most of these qb's are put into bad situations, and asked to carry there teams...and the result is the crappy success rate that we see... I don't buy the 9% because of this...I think the chances will be better than that.
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I mean as you have pointed out, QB's have far lesser likelihood of being starters in the third round. To some degree I believe that would hold true for other positions as well.
He goes at 85 but where did the Browns have him rated???...40???...45???...60???
That's all 2nd round...
We were virtually forced to take a Safety at 38...And apparently we had Ward rated higher than Allen who went at 37...And it's obvious we wanted Hardesty pretty bad...So we move up for him...I'd bet he was rated in our Top 50 also...
Betcha anything Holmgren started mentioning McCoy at 38...And he let Heckert do his thing...Build the team...Then get the QB...
McCoy very easily coulda been our 38 pick...So his 9.4% chance of success just skyrocketed...lol...
And I'm with you...If we're out of the hunt come game 12/13...Let McCoy finish the season if he's progressed as we'd hoped...Get those 3 or 4 games in now,,,
And that 40 starts and 60% completions has wings...McCoy's got it...And then some...Alot of the current QB's meet that criteria...It's only numbers but it does have wings...
I'm not gonna look but I'd bet that the % of QB's taken in 3 or later over the years...That meet that criteria...Is less than 1%...
Go Browns!!!
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I would venture to say that he probably has had a better college career both from a winning standpoint and passing % than any other QB ever drafted in the third round from a big time school.
Which IMO, when you combine that with the fact he has MH here, that 9.4% Toad stated is far below his actual odds of success. As was mentioned, the overall circumstances that surrounds a QB has a lot to do with whether he succeeds or fails.
Considering all of these factors plus Colt's mobility, I'd say he has as much or more of a chance to be successful than anyone else drafted in the third round by a long shot.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I would venture to say that he probably has had a better college career both from a winning standpoint and passing % than any other QB ever drafted in the third round from a big time school.
I bet you can compare him in those areas to any QB drafted anywhere in the draft ever.
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McCoy can give us wins in the future.....Quinn is a Denver Bronco,
For me, it's time to move forward, we tried it didnt work,
BINGO
I don't think I can say who will be better, but I hope it will prove to be McCoy being the better QB.
He just needs to be able to manage the game and keep the defense honest VS the run. That in it self would be great improvement to what we have had @ the position.
At the very least he will be a good back-up.
I might be dating myself, but their were those who said Montana did not have a NFL arm and was small for the position too. I'm not comparing the 2, because that would be unfare to compair Colt to a HF QB.
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All you're trying to do is make it known that a smallish, if-ish armed QB can make it in the NFL.
What you are also pointing out, though maybe not intentionally, is that he's going to have to be special like Montana was in the other aspects of his game to do it.
Personally speaking, even though he was drafted later, I like Colt more than I did Quinn. Ironic, considering Quinn had the size, mobility, pedigree, and tools to make it. In spite of all that, I stated way before he was drafted by us that I didn't really believe in him. He certainly shouldn't have ever been taken in the 1st. And so here we are................
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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it made me wonder if clausen paid for quinn's failure by dropping out of the 1st altogether.
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Absolutely he did.
Or maybe more appropriately, because Quinn was exposed, the idea that a QB coming out from under Weis would be ready for the NFL because he ran a "pro-system" was exposed as the fraud it was.
Like many of the spread offenses in college over the last decade, QB's are putting up numbers in systems that take advantage of lesser defenses. The windows that people thought Quinn could put the ball through didn't exist in the NFL. That made people stop and realize that "pro-system" didn't prepare him for crap. As a result, the illusion was shattered, and so one of the so-called feather's in the cap of Clausen became worthless. That left people to examine his tools and his head and put more weight into those factors. As a result, he became a 2nd round pick. For all we know, he may have still dropped to the 2nd round because of all his negatives, but we can say for sure Quinn's failure did nothing to help Clausen.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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What you are also pointing out, though maybe not intentionally, is that he's going to have to be special like Montana was in the other aspects of his game to do it.
are you sure he isn't special like Montana? I mean, nobody but Bill Walsh thought Montana was anything too special.. picked him in the 3rd (3 spots ahead of McCoy) and the rest as they say, is history.
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Did I say he wasn't special like Montana, or did I say he would have to be special like Montana?
He lacks size and the NFL arm. In order to be a good starter, he's going to have to be special in some other area.
In simple terms, that means he's going to have to be extremely accurate and extremely smart.
I'm not saying he can't be those things. I'm saying he MUST do those things in order to be a legit starter.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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