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Day One for our 85th Pick (3rd Rnd) who was Rated #40-50 on Our Draft Board (2nd Rnd)...lol... We're turning toward a WCO???...Maybe but it will be slowly... What's that constitute again TOAD???...Short Quick Tosses???...Nice tight catchable Spiral on the money???...From under Center??? BEREA -- First impressions of the newest Browns on display at rookie minicamp ... • Quarterback Colt McCoy's taller than advertised. Cornerback Joe Haden and safety T.J. Ward may be short, but they are built like tanks. Ward, especially, is broad. Both defensive backs also have very large legs. *President Mike Holmgren blended in with the coaching staff on the sidelines, wearing the same gray shirt and pants as the coaches. A far cry from the days of former President Carmen Policy skipping onto the field in suit and tie. • McCoy's short passes were right on target, crisply thrown, tight spirals. We didn't see any deep balls in the one hour open to media. There ya' go PIT...  http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/tony_grossis_blog_clifton_geat.html
Go Browns!!!
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Quinn was never going to be nothing... "usually" the NFL scouts get it right and when you see a guy falling like he did, that means he is on the fence of being from pretty good to just average.
Sure sometimes they are wrong, but seeing Quinn not be able to throw over 15-20 yards and now add those pass were at guys feet or behind them. He was done! Denver thought the samething when they wasted a 1st round pick on a project QB
Teams want hope with QB's and sometimes you try to catch lighting in a bottle with some of these "hmmmm maybe" guys.
Like...
McCoy.
He is just like Quinn, allot of "hmmmm, maybe" - but getting a guy in the 3rd round - thats fine, we will see. It really doesnt matter when your picking a guy who slips to the 3rd. Maybe he will be a great backup for us in a couple years, maybe MH will draft a QB next year with our first round pick. He might be setting everything up for the long haul.
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Quote:
Maybe he will be a great backup for us in a couple years, maybe MH will draft a QB next year with our first round pick. He might be setting everything up for the long haul.
Correctumundo...We'll see where McCoy ends up...
I don't care about the lack of arm...He's got PLENTY for a WCO type system...
I care about ACCURACY...And he's got that one...
The one that will dictate where McCoy ends up is his adjustment to the ability to READ A D...That's what will make or break him...Not his arm...
Right now he's 1 for 2...Hopefully the 2 works out (D Reads)... 
Go Browns!!!
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So he did what he was asked to do and did it well. Can you tell me what's wrong with that? And I noticed it said "In the hour that was openned to the media". BTW- How is your boy doin'? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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So he did what he was asked to do and did it well.
Can you tell me what's wrong with that?
And I noticed it said "In the hour that was openned to the media".
BTW- How is your boy doin'?
LOL...Not sure yet...Actually I DON'T CARE now that he ain't one of US...
I'm now WITH YOU on McCoy...Have been since the 85th pick was announced...
Let's Go C!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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Cool DnD! And I'm with you too. We know he has the accuracy to put the ball where he wants. How he progresses on reading D's will tell the tail IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Just clicking,,
Listened to the interview of McCoy on the main site,, my impression is that he is a good young man, solid, NOT humble but not arrogant either.. this kid has a ton of confidence, he's funny.., Oh,,, and yeah, he seems to love cows (I'm not kidding..LOL)
Not sure how that translates to the field,.., but we'll see..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You seriously don't get it do you? Without cows there would be no milk. Milk does a body good! You don't love cows? How would our children grow up with strong bones and teeth without cows? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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Woah there big fella!
How do you know I'm Big, Pitt? I could be a petite, delicate flower. 
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This is a statement that even yourself knows better than to make.
Many teams had no need for a QB. NONE!
Doesn't matter.
The teams that DID need a QB would have found a way to move up to get a guy they viewed as a 1st rounder, had he in fact been a 1st rounder.
In short, a QB rated in the top-40 won't fall into the 80-range. Never. If you're a franchise-type QB prospect, you're gone in the first two rounds. Why? Because teams always move up to get that franchise guy. They don't wait and hope that he falls to the 3rd round.
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So this whole "what the rest of the league thought of him" holds zero merrit. And I honestly think you knew that when you were typing it.
I know just the opposite. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't believe it and know it to be the truth.
Here's a quiz for anyone that wants to play:
I haven't even considered it, but I'd like to know which was the last team to draft a QB in the 3rd round with the idea that he's going to become "The Man." The only team I can think of was Savage, and now Frye is about to be bounced from his 3rd team in three years, while Savage was doing radio and just recently caught on with the Eagles as nothing more than a glorified scout.
I'm genuinely curious what the last team was. I may look it up later out of morbid curiosity, though I may not because where McCoy went tells everyone what the league thought of him.......
Teams pass on good Talent in every draft.
I think there are more teams in the league that could use an upgrade @ the QB position, then do not.
Teams miss or pass on good prospects every year from every position in the game.
I don't have any prouf, but most teams did not have a 1st round grade on Joe Flacco in 2008.
I was Tared and feathered when I projected him in the 1st round by Walter and his side kick (walterfootball.com)
BTW I also said Matt Ryan should be the Dolphins pick @ #1.
Who were they saying was the best QB that year? Brahm. Who did they have as their top rated QB this year? Clausen.
It is true the odds of picking "the Guy" in round 3 are not so good, but It does happen.
Joe Montana (6'2" 205 lbs) was picked in the 3rd round pick (82). Why? Because most teams thought he was sort for the position and bought into the rummers that said he did not have an pro arm. The rest is history.
Tom Brady 6th round pick.
Tony Romo went undrafted. Romo is not the tallest QB either @ 6'2".
So just because the rest of the league passed on Colt, Doesn't mean they were correct. I hope for R sake they were not.
I think MH and CO hoped teams would pass on him.
IT was a gamble to not take him @ 38.
Prospects like Colt that don't fit the NFL mold for the position will fall in every draft.
31 Teams also passed on the 6' Drew Brees and the one that did pick him (SD) traded him to (NO).
I had Brett Farve rated my #1 QB and Prospect in the whole draft the year 31 teams also passed on him and like Brees he was Traded.
I Went to the Florida Game his SR year and Florida was the #1 team in the country @ the time, yet Farve took his team on his sholders and killed Florida's chance of a national title. I just knew he would be a special player.
I'm positive I can find more examples.
So in sort yes teams do pass on possible starting QB's in the 1st two rounds and just as many pick QB's in the 1st who prove to be unworthy.
I don't think I need mention who, we all have plenty of knowledge on that subject.
I wish you could red shirt a rookie in the NFL.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
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You're right. The idea that 31 other teams passed on CM because they all thought he sucked is rediculous.
Teams don't use picks in the first 3 rounds on a QB if they don't NEED one, so that alone narrows the field considerably.
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I went through the drafts for QB's back to 1970 and came up with the following list of QB's who, in my opinion, had enough degree of success to be considered "The Man" by their respective teams. Were they all HOF? No, but they were pretty good - sometimes great - QB's who were chosen in the 3rd round or later. Note also, there's quite a few SB appearances among this group, along with a couple HOF'ers and one sure-fire HOF'er-to-be (Brady).
Name, Round (Overall), Year
M Schaub, 3rd (90), 2004
D Henson, 6th (192), 2003
D Garrard, 4th (108), 2002
M Bulger, 6th (168), 2000
T Brady, 6th (199), 2000
M Hasselbeck, 6th (187), 1998
M Brunell, 5th (118), 1993
T Green, 8th (222), 1993
N O'Donnell, 3rd (70), 1990
R Gannon, 4th (98), 1987
J Hostetler, 3rd (59), 1984
J Montana, 3rd (82), 1979
S DeBerg, 10th (275), 1977
S Grogan, 5th (116), 1975
J Ferguson, 3rd (57), 1973
D Fouts, 3rd (64), 1973
B Sipe, 13th (330), 1972
K Anderson, 3rd (67), 1971
J Theismann, 4th (99), 1971
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You seriously don't get it do you? Without cows there would be no milk. Milk does a body good!
You don't love cows? How would our children grow up with strong bones and teeth without cows?
You are killing me Pit
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Brian Sipe 13th round (330).
Man those were the good ol'days. 
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Is it just me, or does it seem like a few folks are bashing McCoy for no real reason.. just trumping up stuff to verify thier thinking.. I can't believe that anyone would think that because he was drafted in the 3rd round, he must NOT be a "the man" type of QB..
Hey,, I haven't a clue what the future holds,, I won't sit here and tell anyone that I think he's the answer.. I bet you, NOBODY thought that Tom Brady would be "the man".. (I do think that Bill Walsh thought that Montana was gonna be however)
Seems ridiculous to say he's GOING to be the man and site as a reason that Montana did it..., it also seems ridiculous to say McCoy isn't going to make it because he was drafted in the 3rd round...
Truth is,, NOBODY knows..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Is it just me, or does it seem like a few folks are bashing McCoy for no real reason.. just trumping up stuff to verify thier thinking.. I can't believe that anyone would think that because he was drafted in the 3rd round, he must NOT be a "the man" type of QB..
Hey,, I haven't a clue what the future holds,, I won't sit here and tell anyone that I think he's the answer.. I bet you, NOBODY thought that Tom Brady would be "the man".. (I do think that Bill Walsh thought that Montana was gonna be however)
Seems ridiculous to say he's GOING to be the man and site as a reason that Montana did it..., it also seems ridiculous to say McCoy isn't going to make it because he was drafted in the 3rd round...
Truth is,, NOBODY knows..
All we do know is that he was hand-picked by the guy who developed countless good QB's, and several legendary ones, and that he'll be inserted into the lineup when the time is right.
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It seems to me that some of us are speaking in terms of different levels of success. I'm mostly looking for a guy that is viably, possibly, the guy who can lead us to some wins, to respectability and competitiveness. I'd like to feel proud of my team again, instead of like a perennial doormat. Bring me back to 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 ... and THEN we can talk about Super Bowls. Ideally, it would be nice to have an Elway or a Manning at QB, but I don't think its absolutely necessary to win a SB. History has shown too many times that you can win with a good technician, too.
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Quote:
It seems to me that some of us are speaking in terms of different levels of success. I'm mostly looking for a guy that is viably, possibly, the guy who can lead us to some wins, to respectability and competitiveness. I'd like to feel proud of my team again, instead of like a perennial doormat. Bring me back to 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 ... and THEN we can talk about Super Bowls. Ideally, it would be nice to have an Elway or a Manning at QB, but I don't think its absolutely necessary to win a SB. History has shown too many times that you can win with a good technician, too.
You haven't been watching many SuperBowls, then.
Trent Dilfer is an outlier, Brad Johnson is an outlier. You need a good QB to get there and win it.
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I didn't say you don't need a good QB to get there - I said you don't necessarily need a HOF QB to get there.
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You R correct we don't know really what we have in Colt McCoy.
What we do know is that MH saw something he liked in him.
So many have stated the fact that he doesn't have the hight to play the position.
Okay.......then how can tall QB's like DA have passes batted down?
Because either he was throwing to the wrong spot or the D simply made a good play.
Every pass play is designed to have pass lanes in conjunction with the routs that the receivers R running. So you R not suppossed to be thowing over a D anyways.
Getting back to the subject.
I saw a player in BQ who never seemed to get used to the speed of the game.
Who knows how accurate he would be if he was up to the speed of the game?
So I think that should be the 1st priority in Colts development.
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All Pro
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As for NewDawg's comments, I know Colt the player and his history better than probably anyone here. Preaching to me about his "pro day" results isn't going to convince me or anyone else.
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Quote:
Is it just me, or does it seem like a few folks are bashing McCoy for no real reason.. just trumping up stuff to verify thier thinking.. I can't believe that anyone would think that because he was drafted in the 3rd round, he must NOT be a "the man" type of QB..
Seriously? You have 17,200 posts and you are just now figuring out that posters look for stuff, to the point of making stuff up to suit their own preconceived notions? By now I would have expected you to know that this happens to every single player, every single draft pick, every single anybody that wears orange and brown...
yebat' Putin
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I do, but I wanted to point it out specifically in this case... work with me here DC....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I can't believe it either...  
yebat' Putin
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j/c don't think this was posted but interesting excerpt. Quote:
2. Speaking of Broncos quarterbacks, everyone in the organization has been impressed with the work of former Brown Brady Quinn. Quinn has slowed down his movements and, according to the team’s coaches, has improved his accuracy. They’re excited to watch him work, and Denver will have a legitimate competition at quarterback this summer.
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7. I know much has been made of the Colt McCoy pick by Cleveland, but in reality, this pick will not stop the Browns from drafting a quarterback next year. McCoy is viewed more as backup than a potential starter by team brass. Expect the Browns to get involved in scouting the top QBs in the draft next year.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Sunday-at-the-Post-8060.html
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This will sound weird, but I don't care if Quinn fails. He is now the enemy.
But if he does succeed, then do we know the move was an impatient knee-jerk by Holmgren, who had no time for old regime holdovers ? Who knows. At this point it doesn't really matter anymore, and I trust Holmgren--it's all we can do,....
I hope McCoy blows Wallace and DelHomme out of the water, thereby not having to worry about drafting another one for ten years.
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I want Quinn AND McCoy to do well. McCoy for obvious reasons, and Quinn because it improves our trade compensation.
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I WIN I WIN I WIN
Bet my wife that before 1pm today, someone would put up a thread comparing Quinn and McCoy.....
You da man!
I am most satisfied with the pick of McCoy because Heckert & Co can still draft another QB next year & not look like clowns in the process. Drafting McCoy & adding another QB in 2010 with solid potential spreads the risk of both tanking long term.. Yippie!
Quinn & McCoy will have both have very different circumstances at the beginning of there careers. McCoy will be given the fairer start and hopefully takes advantage of it. I could care less what happens to Quinn at this point...
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Quote:
I hope McCoy blows Wallace and DelHomme out of the water, thereby not having to worry about drafting another one for ten years.
I don't care about him "blowing anybody out of the water" this year. What I do hope is he progresses to the point we can feel secure using next years first round pick elsewhere. Say DL.
We're not quite a finished product as a team overall and it would sure be sweet to end up with such a good deal at the QB position.
Time will tell................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I hope he tears them both a new butt then,...I don't see either as a long term, playoff-run QB. But I will gladly accept being wrong about that. McCoy playing his way into the "10 year starter" quickly eliminates a lot of crap, as would Wallace doing so. I really don't care. As you pointed out, saving a pick is always a good thing.
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This is how this is going to play out.... Delhomme is going to start the season and we might get a couple wins... we are going to look decent but not overly impressive and we are going to enter the second half of the season below .500.. our playoff hopes all but dashed... and that's when it will start. The "Do we need to draft another QB?" threads and articles will start in the second half (regardless of how Jake plays and I doubt it's going to be good enough to have us in contention).. well how do we know if we haven't seen McCoy on the field? If Delhomme isn't the answer and Wallace isn't the answer.... then we need to find out if McCoy is the answer before we either waste a pick (and possibly trade up) for Locker or pass on him when we really need him. Yep, we need to get McCoy on the field for these last 6 games so we (the fans) can really evaluate how much of a stink we need to make about drafting another QB... That is how this is going to go... write it down.
yebat' Putin
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You are absolutely right... It has happened with EVERY QB the Browns have had on the Bench. Remember.. "We really need to see Frye play. After all, the season is shot and if we lose, it will improve our draft position," or how about, "I don't care if Anderson is going to the Pro Bowl, Quinn has to be better, we need to seem him and give him a chance to prove it." It really doesn't matter, no QB since Kosar has kept the fans happy.. and since I do not remember any Browns Message Boards then.. I can not be sure there was not discontent, even then...
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Four to Six games isn't going to sway Holmgren and Crew one way or the other...
It gonna give McCoy experience...More importantly is what these guys see in him throughout the entire year with preparation and learning the system...
Anyone who gives a QB 4-6 games and makes a decision based on that is dumb...If that was the guideline there'd be numerous top tier QB's that woulda changed teams or got benched all over the league...
Holmgren GETS IT when he says TWO YEARS STARTER...
One thing is pretty much set in stone...IF we're in the top 5 and Holmgren MUST have a Locker...He'll go get em' this time...Regardless of McCoy's presence...
Go Browns!!!
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Just like Quinn right?
If McCoy gets a shot this year.. even if its just 4 games.. He has to do well.. Even more so b/c he is a 3rd round pick with not much investment... If he wins games.. cool.. we picked the right guy.. if he loses games, and looks horrible.. well he was only a 3rd round pick, and he could be a great backup.. Lets continue to look for our starter. That is what will happen.. ala Troy Smith with the Ravens.
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If McCoy gets 4 games, it doesn't matter what he does because the rest of everything will have gone to hell in order for him to see the field.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c seems like the best place to put this Quote:
Josina Anderson of FOX 31 Denver reports that the Jaguars have interest in Brady Quinn and an unnamed pass rusher on the Broncos' roster.
The pass rusher, specifically a "DE/OLB," could be former first-round pick Jarvis Moss, who's been a bust in Denver and is likely available for cheap. Jags coach Jack Del Rio has been a fan of Quinn dating back to the 2007 draft, when he allegedly wanted to select the Notre Dame quarterback before the Jags took FS Reggie Nelson. According to Anderson, Nelson is available for trade. The Broncos' level of interest in him is unknown, but they're probably willing to part with Quinn after selecting Tim Tebow in the first round.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=4149
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WOW,, didn't see that coming.. Talk about changes facing the young man.. wow..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
j/c
seems like the best place to put this
Quote:
Josina Anderson of FOX 31 Denver reports that the Jaguars have interest in Brady Quinn and an unnamed pass rusher on the Broncos' roster.
The pass rusher, specifically a "DE/OLB," could be former first-round pick Jarvis Moss, who's been a bust in Denver and is likely available for cheap. Jags coach Jack Del Rio has been a fan of Quinn dating back to the 2007 draft, when he allegedly wanted to select the Notre Dame quarterback before the Jags took FS Reggie Nelson. According to Anderson, Nelson is available for trade. The Broncos' level of interest in him is unknown, but they're probably willing to part with Quinn after selecting Tim Tebow in the first round.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=4149
Quinn and Moss to the Jags for Nelson.
What do you know, two boobs do equal a bust.
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
Quote:
Quinn and Moss to the Jags for Nelson.
What do you know, two boobs do equal a bust.
if you made that up, you're my linguistic hero. that was hilarious.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
It would be pretty crazy if Quinn was traded twice in one off-season.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 45
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 45 |
How tall is Colt McCoy? The NFL Combine has him @ 6'1, while his wikipedia page has him listed @ 6'3.. I would assume the Combine is a more accurate estimate, but there seems to be a lot of ambiguity with regards to his overall size.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn vs. McCoy
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