Everyone here knows you don't do too well when you have to think, but geez, the guy gave the reason for his apology.
There are criminal investigations going on right now into BP's involvement. Obama decided he didn't want to follow the law and punished BP before that investigation was over. In case you didn't know, you have to prove fault before punishment. That's how it works.
Side note: I'm an independent, but if Radical Rwer is the opposite of you, I'd take that as a compliment.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Quote: I'm really tired of all this political wrangling, finger pointing, and threats of criminal prosecution.
None of these stop the leak. It doesn't appear that anything but the 2 relief drills will and that's stilll a couple of months away.
Good point. Can't argue you on that one.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Here is my thinking Daman.. I think that Barton is correct in his logic but I think he is picking a losing position.... regardless of whether he is correct in his interpretation of the law, public opinion is not behind him.. after all, hell we have an oil company on the ropes and the democrats are circling like buzzards hoping it dies so they can dissect its carcass and give it to the poor.
BP was going to pay and pay dearly, everybody knew that. There was no way BP was going to get off paying anything close to that $75 million cap. The justice department has an ongoing investigation into criminal charges, congress has an ongoing investigation... but with all of that ongoing, Obama called the BP executives into his office and with one swoop told them they were guilty and sentenced them to a punishment (at least the first part of it)... there is no legal precedent for making them establish this slush fund, there is no legal precedent for turning control of a private corporations money over to a pseudo-third party which is really just an extension of the government, there is no rationale behind picking the number $20 billion other than Obama thinks that is a big enough number to let the voters think he's doing something... Our judicial system and our legislative system DO NOT WORK THAT WAY... they do not allow anybody, even the President to just make this crap up as they go along because public emotion is behind him.
Barton was not apologizing because BP had to pay, Barton was apologizing for the way our opportunistic President ran roughshod over a private corporation in a way that is not supported by our legal system... but then running roughshod over private industry seems to be Obama's specialty.
Quote: I'm really tired of all this political wrangling, finger pointing, and threats of criminal prosecution.
None of these stop the leak. It doesn't appear that anything but the 2 relief drills will and that's stilll a couple of months away.
I agree. Bottom line is mistakes can be made, and enough all the way around have been made.
Time to cut the crap, quit pointing fingers, learn and move on.....and get the thing fixed.
I think BP has done a stand up job in how they are handling this. I don't think we need to be talking criminal action here.....civil...sure....not criminal.
These eggberts in Washington are always eager to put someones head in the noose....mostly because as long as someone else is there, they aren't.
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
GOP Leaders Threatened To Strip Barton's Seniority For BP Apology
House Republican leadership threatened to strip Rep. Joe Barton's seniority on the Energy and Commerce Committee if the Texas Republican didn't immediately retract an apology he had issued to BP earlier on Thursday, a GOP leadership aide told HuffPost.
His post, however, is still not secure.
Barton is the highest-ranking Republican on the committee and stands to become its chairman if Republicans regain control of the House following the elections in November. He was called into a meeting with Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and slammed for issuing the apology.
"Barton met with Boehner and Cantor this afternoon. He was told, 'Apologize, immediately. Or you will lose your position, immediately. Now that he has apologized, we'll see what happens going forward," said the leadership aide.
"He was concerned about explaining his point that the White House doesn't necessarily have the authority to do what they did. But, when you start out by apologizing to BP, you've lost your audience," said a second aide, "especially when they agreed to the fund willingly and when our Members are on record supporting the fund."
The meeting followed remarks Barton made during a hearing Thursday morning with BP's CEO Tony Hayward.
"I'm ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday," said Barton. "I think it is a tragedy in the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown -- in this case a $20 billion shakedown -- with the attorney general of the United States, who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation and has every right to do so to protect the American people, participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that's unprecedented in our nation's history, which has no legal standing, which I think sets a terriblÉ precedent for our nation's future."
"I'm only speaking for myself. I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I apologize," Barton added. "I do not want to live in a county where any time a citizen or a corporation does something that is legitimately wrong, [it is] subject to some sort of political pressure that, again, in my words, amounts to a shakedown."
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SO...which is it...is Barton sorry he made the shakedown comments...OR...is the GOP just worried about the political damage Barton's comment could bring them in the upcoming elections?
I believe it's safe to say...this is a very big issue for the GOP...threatening to remove Barton from his position if he didn't retract his comments about the White House "shakedown and the apology to BP.
IMO...Barton is simply reflecting his GOP values and priorities...he is beholding to Big Oil, just like the rest of his party. While the GOP pretends to care about those people who have lost their livelihoods along the Gulf of Mexico...the truth is, they are more concerned about BP, a company that donates millions to their political campaigns.
Barton simply told the truth about his GOP priorities and the priorities of the party. Barton was not the only RWer to denounce the $20 billion either.
The GOP continues to show their priority is not the American people...but the Corporations that donate to their campaigns.
I think it's hilarious that every time there is a disagreement between republicans you run and post it... you never run and post disagreements between democrats... do you know why? BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY.
See, somebody in the group has to have an original thought to have a disagreement.. and since every democrat is swinging from Obama's jock since he can do no wrong, there is no chance for disagreement....
Quote: I think it's hilarious that every time there is a disagreement between republicans you run and post it... you never run and post disagreements between democrats... do you know why? BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY.
See, somebody in the group has to have an original thought to have a disagreement.. and since every democrat is swinging from Obama's jock since he can do no wrong, there is no chance for disagreement....
DC...I'm a Democrat...
I used to be a Republican for many, many years...but the GOP party left me..declining in conservative values.
Now, I support those who support working class Americans...end of story.
The GOP clearly is pro Big Business with this Barton thing being a classic example.
The Dems are doing more to help working class folks...while the GOP continues to dump on working class Americans.
If the GOP ever decides to put working class Americans ahead of the Big Business campaign donors...I might switch parties again...but I don't see that "ever happening" with the GOP.
Quote: but the GOP party left me..declining in conservative values.
I've read your posts mac, it's extremely hard for me to believe that you EVER had conservative values. I'm a conservative, I am still registered as a republican.. I feel like the GOP has left a lot of its conservative values too.. I guess the place where we differ is that when the GOP left a lot of its conservative values, I didn't become a flaming liberal to prove that I don't like the GOP any more.
On every issue I can think of, taxes, spending, size of government, government involvement in private business, governments ability to create and sustain jobs or an economy, states rights.. on very issue I can think of, you are a staunch supporter of all things liberal mac.... I will say it again, I find it VERY difficult to believe that you and I ever believed the same thing....
... what's wrong with a little politics between friends??? ...
The sad thing is this is a real disaster. While all the Politicians and Big Business types posture for position... NOBODY is solving any problems.
Things can never be right in the gulf until the leak is stopped. It will take a LONG time to fix the damage and mother nature will be left to deal with most of it.
I for one don't believe that ANY business has the right or the importance to destroy the environment and an ecosystem that is so vital to so many creatures and humans alike. In doing so, they deserve WHATERVER happens to them, be it bankruptcy, criminal charges, etc.
AND the Politicians in this country deserve what's going to happen to them as well. There is a growing tide of younger people who don't care about Republicans or Democrats and their parties. All they want is for the people they elect to use the BEST common sense they have AND start fixing this country.
All this finger pointing and posturing is irrelevent to the text messaging, twittering google generation. They are informed, intune and pissed off...
The Face of Politics is going to change a lot over the next ten years. I just hope it's finally for the better.
Someone should ask mac, directly, just what policies the GOP enacted that caused him to leave the GOP. Not generalities ... but specific laws and budgetary policies that they passed.
Bet there aren't any ...... because his positions are as phony as the politician he follows around blindly .... like a dog on a leash.
Someone can then copy/paste if he actually gives an answer ..... because I am in a rather blissful state of ignoring his BS.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: when the GOP left a lot of its conservative values
Can I ask when they ever had them?
Their poster boy Reagan spent like a drunken sailor, constantly intervened in private business, enacted a great deal of taxation without representation, and trampled on states' rights.
Like I always say --- we do not have any conservatives or liberals in Washington.
I'm trying to decide if your responding to me or Mac... I don't believe BP deserves an apology. they deserve every load of do do dumped on them. At least that's my opinion.
As for those that think that Obama went overboard on this one.. had he not, he'd have been (and is being) vilified for not doing more.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
How does every single one of Mac's post not break this rule? Isn't he constantly name calling?
To be fair about it. Most of the people on this board have done the same thing or worse and haven't recieved a warning. Although if I say someones a jerk that's a 6 month ban for me
How does every single one of Mac's post not break this rule? Isn't he constantly name calling?
To be fair about it. Most of the people on this board have done the same thing or worse and haven't recieved a warning. Although if I say someones a jerk that's a 6 month ban for me
Dude - I've been banned - it's not just you. And one of the times (yes, times, as in plural) was for smacking a steeler fan, no less!!!
Although, in hindsight - it would've been okay had it been a real person - but this was a steeler fan!!!
How does every single one of Mac's post not break this rule? Isn't he constantly name calling?
To be fair about it. Most of the people on this board have done the same thing or worse and haven't recieved a warning. Although if I say someones a jerk that's a 6 month ban for me
Dude - I've been banned - it's not just you. And one of the times (yes, times, as in plural) was for smacking a steeler fan, no less!!!
Although, in hindsight - it would've been okay had it been a real person - but this was a steeler fan!!!
Sorry Arch but I couldn't help but
That sucks man, the refs should have given you a free pass IMO
"Radical Right Winger" is anyone who does not blindly, obediently, and zealously promote, proclaim, and profess any act taken by the current administration as being almost godlike in its perfection .........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
and watch the video. Jindal, the gov. of Louisiana, says the coast guard shut down 16 oil sucking barges because they didn't have enough life jackets, basically.
Now, according the the video - the barges can take 4000 gallons of oil per HOUR out of the gulf.
The barges sat for 24 hours before being allowed back out. Do the math - 16 barges, 4000 gallons per hour, for 24 hours. Seems to me (I'm no math whiz) that's 16 X 4000 X 24. That's over 1.5 million gallons they weren't allowed to suck up.
Love Liberalism .... give US all your money ....... Let US determine your life for you .....
And don't EVER question this President again! Got it?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Louisianans say George W. Bush did better job responding to Katrina than President Obama has to oil spill.
Louisianans say George W. Bush did a better job responding to Hurricane Katrina than Barack Obama has to the oil spill off the Gulf of Mexico coast, according to a new Public Policy Polling survey released Tuesday.
When asked which president handled their crisis better, 50 percent said Bush while 35 percent chose Obama.
While Bush’s response to Katrina was widely perceived to be a failure, the ire directed at Obama is likely explained by the fact that 76 percent of the Louisianans polled believe the oil spill will cause more long-term damage to the state than Katrina.
Yet even amidst the widespread concern over the spill, 77 percent of the state supports continued offshore drilling. Only 12 percent of Louisiana opposes offshore drilling.
And asked if the spill has changed their minds at all about drilling, 42 percent said no.
“People are always concerned with their economic livelihood,” said PPP President Dean Debnam. “In Louisiana the economy and jobs are clearly tied to the oil and gas industry. Louisianans seem more concerned about the closure of oil rigs than of beaches.”
The PPP poll was based on surveys with 492 Louisiana voters conducted June 12-13 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.4 percentage points.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
someone once told me ..who elected these 492 to speak for all the people of Louisiana?
So they polled know a few radical Rwersin the state, who are not damaged in any way by the BP oil spill...and you and they speak for everyone in the gulf..right!
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
I always wonder how they determnine the number of people to poll ....
I mean ..... 492? Really? Not 500?
It's just a weird number.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I always wonder how they determnine the number of people to poll ....
I mean ..... 492? Really? Not 500?
It's just a weird number.
Depends on the way they do the polls ...
Some companies go all out to get a diverse demographic that actually meets all of the demographic metrics of the actual population. So if 20% of the state is african-american ... so is the polled group. If 54% of the state is female so is the polled group, If 45% of the state is registered Democratic, etc. Having an odd number like that might make it easier to match the overall numbers and percentages.
I agree. The comparison between Katrina and this spill is poor at best. Had New Orleans kept flooding for 50+ days the perception might be different, and Katrina had very little lasting environmental impact.
We see everyday the video of the well gushing oil, but don't get much news reports on what's happening in the cleanup, aside from the areas where oil has come ashore. The Exxon Valdez was a specific amount of oil, and it was all about the cleanup. We haven't even gotten to the point where we know how much oil is spilled so far, or how much longer it will continue.
And a lot of the oil is in plumes under the surface.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
and watch the video. Jindal, the gov. of Louisiana, says the coast guard shut down 16 oil sucking barges because they didn't have enough life jackets, basically.
Now, according the the video - the barges can take 4000 gallons of oil per HOUR out of the gulf.
The barges sat for 24 hours before being allowed back out. Do the math - 16 barges, 4000 gallons per hour, for 24 hours. Seems to me (I'm no math whiz) that's 16 X 4000 X 24. That's over 1.5 million gallons they weren't allowed to suck up.
For life jackets and fire extinguishers.
Our fine gov't. in action.
I didn't watch the video Arch,, I'll take your word for what it says.. but I guarantee you that had one of those barges run into trouble and sank, and any workers would have died because they weren't properly outfitted, people would be screaming that the government lacked oversight..
Trust me, with the people all riled up, just the way politicians want us, there is no satisfying anyone...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If I had to choose, I'd say mac, but really it was more of a general response.
The way I saw it is that he was already talking to BP-guy, so it came out as an apology. He probably wants that one back.
His major point was the White house came down with the hammer while a govt investigation was underway. That's a no-no. In light of the more logical responses in this thread, I'll hold my political arguments in favor of a "stop pointing fingers and fix it".
With all the fingers being pointed, we could've stuck them all in the hole and stopped it already. :-)
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Quote: If I had to choose, I'd say mac, but really it was more of a general response.
The way I saw it is that he was already talking to BP-guy, so it came out as an apology. He probably wants that one back.
His major point was the White house came down with the hammer while a govt investigation was underway. That's a no-no. In light of the more logical responses in this thread, I'll hold my political arguments in favor of a "stop pointing fingers and fix it".
With all the fingers being pointed, we could've stuck them all in the hole and stopped it already. :-)
FYI,, I saw on the news today that Barton got pretty well ripped by folks for that move and apparently did retract it verbally as well as in writing.. haven't seen or heard the retraction yet..
Anyway,, I like the last line in your post...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
and watch the video. Jindal, the gov. of Louisiana, says the coast guard shut down 16 oil sucking barges because they didn't have enough life jackets, basically.
Now, according the the video - the barges can take 4000 gallons of oil per HOUR out of the gulf.
The barges sat for 24 hours before being allowed back out. Do the math - 16 barges, 4000 gallons per hour, for 24 hours. Seems to me (I'm no math whiz) that's 16 X 4000 X 24. That's over 1.5 million gallons they weren't allowed to suck up.
For life jackets and fire extinguishers.
Our fine gov't. in action.
I didn't watch the video Arch,, I'll take your word for what it says.. but I guarantee you that had one of those barges run into trouble and sank, and any workers would have died because they weren't properly outfitted, people would be screaming that the government lacked oversight..
Trust me, with the people all riled up, just the way politicians want us, there is no satisfying anyone...
If your house was burning down, would you want the fire marshal to come in, stop the firemen, and inspect their equipment, while you stood and watched your house burn down?
When the firemen went into the twin towers, would you have wanted the gov't. to come, stop all of them, and inspect their equipment to make sure they all had an extra air tank, 2 flashlights that had fresh batteries, check their coats to ensure that no cuts or slices existed - and then let them go back in after a day?
Sorry. Barges are barges. Someone falls off - they toss him a rope and he's back on the barge. It's not like they were working during a hurricane. It's not like there weren't 16 of them out there, plus countless other boats.
This is no different than, say you were out in a boat and it started to sink - and you radio for help. I, in another boat, am close enough to help, but on my way to help you the coast guard pulls me over. They see that I have 5 people on my boat, but only 4 life jackets - and they send me back to shore to get another life jacket before I can help you. Meanwhile, they don't do anything other than check the next boat coming to help you.
Gov't. at it's best.
Don't give me the "if something happened, people would gripe" stuff. People gripe all the time. Most of them are stupid. Stupid, as in letting over 1.5 million gallons of oil get closer to shore simply because a barge didn't have enough life jackets.........
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
On the face of it, it seems significant, but the Coast Guard is simply doing its job.... and when you look at how much is spilling, that one day lost is insignificant at this point.
I get your point, but I don't have a problem at all with the Coast Guard doing that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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