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Cavs fans are not loyal, nobody gave a crap between the Price/Daugherty years and nobody will give a crap if LeBron leaves. We're the definition of bandwagon basketball fans.
Speak for yourself. I always pulled for the team, even during those Terrell Brandon, Tyrone Hill, Fat Kemp years. I remember a few of us chatting on the forum all throughout the "Okay this is the one year we can really suck because we'll get Lebron or Carmello" season.
You can also usually see me over on the Tribe threads now ... pulling for the team, and being understanding of the dilema ownership faces when people expect them to shell out $40 million to two players, and pray that will automatically translate into an immediate championship contender + 20,000 in attendance.
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I think your uncle is wrong.
i know the braves are big in the south, but in the city of atlanta? no, they're not. for crying out loud that team had playoff tickets for sale at walkup. didn't they even have world series tickets for sale at walk up?
neither were the hawks until they won that first game against boston in that series.
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They are right in line with many other teams....note the bottom feeder.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
Interesting though ... if you sort by "away" attendance, the Indians are ranked #12. Makes you wonder if Cleveland has loyal fans ... but they just don't live in Cleveland anymore. 
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I only looked at pct of home attendance. Pittsburgh had attendance percentages that beat us 1/2 the time, and the rest of the time they were very close. There is something seriously wrong with that (either it's indicative of Cleveland's fans, or the numbers are wrong).
Pittsburgh has to have the sorriest baseball team (and I live in San Diego!).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I think your uncle is wrong.
i know the Braves are big in the south, but in the city of atlanta? no, they're not. for crying out loud that team had playoff tickets for sale at walkup. didn't they even have world series tickets for sale at walk up?
neither were the hawks until they won that first game against boston in that series.
Fair enough.
The Braves are as regional a team as any team in baseball.
You see Braves hats all over Georgia, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Alabama, and Mississippi.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Who cares?
Their job is to perform, and they were very clearly not interested in that. They do not need me holding their little hands telling them that it's gonna be Ok because I'm there to cheer them on.
They're grown freaking men getting paid to do a job, and they are flat out sucking at their job at the precise point in time they need to be performing their best.... and all the "fans" in the world standing around cheering them while ignoring that fact won't change it one bit.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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i'm actually surprised the Braves are as low as 13th this year. why?
there's a certain manager, one of the alltime greats who even fans of teams that hate the braves (like me) greatly respect. and he's hanging it up after this year.
heck, i'm going to travel down to Houston to catch him when they're in town.
#gmstrong
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as far as the fans though...
when the Cavs give full effort and leave it all on the floor, they will have my respect and i will not rail on them.
but, when they are flat-out not trying and it's obvious enough that everyone is pointing it out after the game to them, why does that mean they shouldn't be booed?
#gmstrong
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Who cares?
Their job is to perform, and they were very clearly not interested in that. They do not need me holding their little hands telling them that it's gonna be Ok because I'm there to cheer them on.
They're grown freaking men getting paid to do a job, and they are flat out sucking at their job at the precise point in time they need to be performing their best.... and all the "fans" in the world standing around cheering them while ignoring that fact won't change it one bit.
i don't think it has any bearing.
i mean, look at the 2003 red sox. how do you think the feeling was around town when the red sox were down 0-3? you think everyone was chipper and happy? you think nobody was calling for anyone's head?
how about even when they were down 3-1 to the tribe?
like you said, these guys are paid professionals. if they are being affected by booing, blogs, or television experts, they need to go out and get a real job.
with that said, how about the penguins? looks like the cavs aren't the only ones sucking in big games at home. at least the cavs have a shot at redemption. pittsburgh looks done.
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I think your uncle is wrong.
i know the Braves are big in the south, but in the city of atlanta? no, they're not. for crying out loud that team had playoff tickets for sale at walkup. didn't they even have world series tickets for sale at walk up?
neither were the hawks until they won that first game against boston in that series.
Fair enough.
The Braves are as regional a team as any team in baseball.
You see Braves hats all over Georgia, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Alabama, and Mississippi.
definitely. my cousin went to school in tampa before the rays becoming relevant and he said there were a ton of braves fans. and why not, they are the only model of consistency in baseball for the southern region. the marlins have won 2 world series' but i wouldn't say they are a model of consistency, not for a team that mails it in as often as they do. and tampa is a nice story, i think they're having a good year (not really paying attention other than blurbs on the front page of espn or yahoo sports) but i guess you gotta wait that out, and see if they commit to keeping a good team around.
it's just the way it goes now. like i said, pro sports has priced out the true fans. it's very difficult to take a family out to a game nowadays. you better have good reason, and season tickets is an even bigger commitment.
that is why my hat is off to browns fans. they have no reason to show up, yet they do, they get kicked in the balls and continually get up like nothing happened.
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strike that, 2004 red sox.
although i bet there was plenty of negativity after aaron boone blasted their hopes into the left field bleachers at yankee stadium.
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All this is horse hooey. Show up and play the game. No damn excuses - no this, no that. Play the damn game like a pro. Show some excitement.
Perhaps if the checks weren't guaranteed we'd see a bit of life out of this team.
They've shown they have the ability - they just haven't shown they have the desire.
No damn excuses. Put up or shut up.
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All this is horse hooey. Show up and play the game. No damn excuses - no this, no that. Play the damn game like a pro. Show some excitement.
Perhaps if the checks weren't guaranteed we'd see a bit of life out of this team.
They've shown they have the ability - they just haven't shown they have the desire.
No damn excuses. Put up or shut up.
no doubt.
people can rip mike brown, and right now, rightfully so, but his teams have always worked their butts off.
and now we finally get better pieces in place, and they don't work hard at all. sloppy at both ends. bad defense. turning the ball over, horrible shot selection.
i just don't get it. you can literally go insane spinning your head in circles trying to figure it out.
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Who cares?
Their job is to perform, and they were very clearly not interested in that. They do not need me holding their little hands telling them that it's gonna be Ok because I'm there to cheer them on.
They're grown freaking men getting paid to do a job, and they are flat out sucking at their job at the precise point in time they need to be performing their best.... and all the "fans" in the world standing around cheering them while ignoring that fact won't change it one bit.
You couldn't be more wrong about that if you tried. Have you ever played in front of a big, enthusiastic crowd? There's no feeling like it in the world. It can help rally you when you need it. A hostile crowd can shake you and get you off your game and it can deflate you if you let it. The Cavs are professional athletes, so they should be able to temper their emotions a bit better than a high school or college athlete, but for some reason you think that being paid makes them immune to emotion. They are not robots there for our amusement.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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You're talking about an entirely different incident than I am. What I am talking about is glass beer bottles literally raining down on the field after the officials blew a call at the end of a Browns game that caused the team to lose. It made national TV and made Cleveland fans look like complete drunken morons.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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You're talking about an entirely different incident than I am. What I am talking about is glass beer bottles literally raining down on the field after the officials blew a call at the end of a Browns game that caused the team to lose. It made national TV and made Cleveland fans look like complete drunken morons.
I know I'm in the minority here - but, a play was run, then another, then the ref's changed their mind about the first play. According to the NFL rules, that cannot happen. Yet it did. The fans were not "naughty" until the ref's tried to change the rules.
At that point in time, the refs were just as wrong as the fans. It really is simple - once another play has started, you CAN NOT go back and change the previous play. And that's what they did.
You think it made Browns fans look bad. While to an extent it did - especially the way the nfl and media handled it - in reality, what it should've done was focus the attention on the horrible job by the refs, and consequently, the nfl.
Was it the Browns fault Triplett through his flag into the eye of Zeuss? In your opinion it probably was, right?
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What I am talking about is glass beer bottles literally raining down on the field after the officials blew a call at the end of a Browns game
Plastic bottles.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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So you're saying that throwing half full bottles of beer at other human beings from an elevated position is alright and even justified because the fans had a reason to be upset?
And you think the media and the NFL spun it to make it look worse? I wasn't at the game but I was watching it live on TV and it already looked to be the worst case scenario before the media or the NFL said one word about it.
A half full bottle of beer is going to pick up quite a bit of velocity the farther it falls, had it hit someone in the head it very easily could have put them in a coma, or even killed them. But its ok, the refs deserved it right?
And as far as the flag thing goes, I can't even try to respond to that without stooping down to your level so I'll just leave it alone and hope you develop a little sense before your next reply.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Plastic makes it ok, sorry to try to argue with your clearly superior intelligence.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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No one, least of all me said it was okay. Show me where anyone said it was ok. And you can check the snide comments at the door. You made an incorrect statement in an effort to puff up a point.
SaintDawg™
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So you're saying that throwing half full bottles of beer at other human beings from an elevated position is alright and even justified because the fans had a reason to be upset?
Some were 1/2 full, some were empty.
Like I said, I know I'm in the minority, but I believe it was justified. There, I said it. Sorry dude - the rules are the rules. And when the ref's/nfl break them, all bets are off. You don't need to like it - and I can't say that I liked it - but I sure as hell won't ever, EVER say that made Cleveland or the Browns fans look bad. Try that move in any stadium - at the end of a game, with a chance to win, and have the ref's pull the same thing - and watch what happens.
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And you think the media and the NFL spun it to make it look worse? I wasn't at the game but I was watching it live on TV and it already looked to be the worst case scenario before the media or the NFL said one word about it.
Again, for the third time - I know I'm in the minority - but I will say it - no, the nfl looked bad there.
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And as far as the flag thing goes, I can't even try to respond to that without stooping down to your level so I'll just leave it alone and hope you develop a little sense before your next reply.
Sorry bud. Why don't you try stepping UP to my level. Lemme see - fans throwing beer bottles that supposedly could have caused a coma is terrible and a black mark on Cleveland, but nfl officials throwing flags into a players helmet, causing blindness is okay?
Take a step up to my level. Actually, maybe 3 or 4 steps.
You can't have it both ways.
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No one, least of all me said it was okay. Show me where anyone said it was ok. And you can check the snide comments at the door. You made an incorrect statement in an effort to puff up a point.
Sorry, you were right, they were plastic, I just watched the video on youtube and you can tell by the shape they are the popular plastic bottles that came out right around that time.
As far as showing you where someone said it was ok, read arch's post again. If you can interpret it any other way let me know so I can look at it again. He ended the post by saying me blaming the fans was analogous to me blaming the browns for a ref blinding a player with a flag. Don't really think its open to interpretation.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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They didn't show anyone getting hit on the cameras which makes the situation hard to really get.
The announcers said some guys head got split open. I think if they had shown the injuries popular perception would be drastically against the throwing.
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You're missing an incredibly important detail that makes (or in this case, breaks your) the argument.
The incident with the flag was horrible and unfortunate, but it was not malicious, it was accidental. The beer bottles were 100% malicious and intended to hurt the refs, not accidental at all.
You say the bottle throwing was justified, and I disagree. I disagree vehemently, but I can agree to disagree. The flag thing though you're just flat out incorrect.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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my bad, i thought you were talking about what happened the other night when a fan tossed a bottle onto the court.
but yes, i remember the jacksonville game, vividly. and while i agree that was one of the worst decisions i've ever seen in a game (even if they did get it right), throwing stuff is unacceptable. it just is. and yes, it made us look bad, although i could argue that may have happened in several other cities...
but about your comment about how a crowd can ignite a team? no doubt. but when they're playing bad? the fans were in it. they were down 6 at half but gave the team the benefit of the doubt. then they just continually play bad. you can't ask the fans as a whole to cheer loudly when the team is down 25 and still running some of the most foolish looking plays i've ever seen, not contesting shots, turning the ball over, etc... the cavs sucked the life out of that crowd.
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You're right, its a 2 way street during the game. But if people think the things we say about them directly to them in some circumstances, and on various message boards, facebook, twitter, etc doesn't effect them then they are very mistaken.
I'll give you a specific example. Mo Williams pretty regularly communicates with the fans with his twitter account. When he plays a bad game he knows it, and he has apologized for it via that account in the past. When people post some incredibly ignorant and intolerant crap on there after he plays, he sees it. We know mental toughness is not Mo's biggest asset but we still feel the need to dump on him and we are certainly NOT helping his game by doing that.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Quote:
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Who cares?
Their job is to perform, and they were very clearly not interested in that. They do not need me holding their little hands telling them that it's gonna be Ok because I'm there to cheer them on.
They're grown freaking men getting paid to do a job, and they are flat out sucking at their job at the precise point in time they need to be performing their best.... and all the "fans" in the world standing around cheering them while ignoring that fact won't change it one bit.
You couldn't be more wrong about that if you tried. Have you ever played in front of a big, enthusiastic crowd? There's no feeling like it in the world. It can help rally you when you need it. A hostile crowd can shake you and get you off your game and it can deflate you if you let it. The Cavs are professional athletes, so they should be able to temper their emotions a bit better than a high school or college athlete, but for some reason you think that being paid makes them immune to emotion. They are not robots there for our amusement.
No, I am not wrong. Yes, the crowd can affect them... just as their absolutely disgustingly pathetic showing can affect us, the crowd.
Yet, we - the ones paying the money to be there - are the ones that are supposed to suck it up and soldier onward to help them when they show no interest at all in helping themselves?
No, I'm thinking they are the ones that should suck it up, be professionals, and lift us. We will cheer if they stop giving us a crapfest to sit on our hands through.
It isn't like we're talking about just any old loss here.... we're talking about a team that has come out absolutely FLAT and without energy -and seemingly without ability - and got BLOWN OUT. These guys stopped putting up more than a token effort in the first half... but you contend that WE should be the ones pulling up our belts and digging in our heels?
We WANT to cheer.... they just aren't giving us a damned thing to cheer about - and I sure as hell am not going to cheer a loss, and I'm not going to cheer the team after one. If they suck, they FULLY deserve to be told that they suck - ESPECIALLY when they are playing so far below their level.
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for some reason you think that being paid makes them immune to emotion
I expect people that have ascended to that level of their profession to be able to self-motivate. THEY are the ones that are chasing the Championship, not me, not my neighbors, not my friends or family or you and yours. THEY. Either it means enough to them for them to develop a myopic single-mindedness for achieving that goal, or it doesn't - and I contend that with this group, it doesn't.
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They are not robots there for our amusement
The only accurate part of that is that they are not robots. Sport itself, almost by definition, exists for our amusement.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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For the most part, I'm anti-booing. I don't do it, and I find that about 80% of the time it happens it's uncalled for. Chants are more effective anyway.  "A-PA-THY! A-PA-THY!" If we're lucky enough to bring it back here for 7, maybe the fans should chant out sensible ro's for Brown.
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jc
I was against the booing at first when it started and came here and posted that. Then as the Cavs keep playing at the level..........well I could at least understand it. I'd like to think I wouldn't have booed............but honest enough to say I might have. The garbage that the Cavs put out in the second half was embarrassing.
Maybe go with a lineup of Shaq, Ilgauskas, AV, Hickson and West. Then Bring in LeBron if he's not hurt and feels up to it. They would at least play hard. Not swiftly.....but hard. Bah, I'm just frustrated at this. The ONLY thing I expect from Cleveland teams is to try hard. That's it. Please let them just flat out hustle this next game. Win or lose.
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You couldn't be more wrong about that if you tried. Have you ever played in front of a big, enthusiastic crowd? There's no feeling like it in the world. It can help rally you when you need it. A hostile crowd can shake you and get you off your game and it can deflate you if you let it. The Cavs are professional athletes, so they should be able to temper their emotions a bit better than a high school or college athlete, but for some reason you think that being paid makes them immune to emotion. They are not robots there for our amusement.
Ok so when someone complains today and tells me I'm doing a bad job at my job, I'm going to use it as an excuse to under perform for the rest of the day.
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How many of you think it was LeBrons last game at the Q? and tonight might be te last game as a cav?(if they lose obviously)
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I don't think there is any doubt about it.
Unless this guy has the heart and loyalty of a U.S. Marine, you can forget it.
I want to be wrong, but I believe he is gone.
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Personally, I haven't given up on the series yet.
But that was discussed to death the other night in the locked thread.
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Personally, I haven't given up on the series yet.
But that was discussed to death the other night in the locked thread.
Neither have I.
The wake up call is staring the team in the face. Win tonight, we win on Sunday....then go on to win it all.
Lose tonight, well, I won't even start to go in to the changes that will take place.....some our doing, some done to us.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I think the answer is going to be apparent fairly quickly tonight.. either LeBron is going to take the criticism to heart and come out with very high intensity or he's going to stand around and watch like he did the other night. I honestly don't expect to see anything in between. If he comes out hard the team could win and get back home, if he doesn't.. well I have other things I can do tonight for the last 3 quarters.
yebat' Putin
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jc
If Lebron leaves, that's his choice and I can respect that. But if he already made up his mind to leave and has decided to give up on the playoffs because of it, I think he'll become the second most hated person in Cleveland (after Art Modell).
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Quote:
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Personally, I haven't given up on the series yet.
But that was discussed to death the other night in the locked thread.
Neither have I.
The wake up call is staring the team in the face. Win tonight, we win on Sunday....then go on to win it all.
Lose tonight, well, I won't even start to go in to the changes that will take place.....some our doing, some done to us.
Agree,..Win or lose, the bigger issue is, "if" he stays. He basically has it all set up for him, no matter what happens with Boston. His "outs" are all lined up. They have to win in order to keep any spark alive that he will stay. And if they win The Finals, he can leave singing the tune "My Job Here Is Done."
I'm actually more concerned with winning so he stays, rather than break a 56 year old drought.
It's all about what's in his heart now.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 Likes: 2 |
i was thinking about this yesterday.
when was the last time cleveland had a game 7 in their building?
has cleveland ever had a game 7?
remember, while jordan hit that shot against the cavs in the coliseum, that was only in the first round of the playoffs, in a 5 game series.
cavs have played 2 game 7's in the lbj era and both were on the road, the tribe played one game 7 that i can remember, in the world series, in miami.
have cleveland ever had a game 7 in their own barn?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
the tribe played one game 7 that i can remember, in the world series, in miami.
Game 7 in Boston.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 Likes: 2
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
the tribe played one game 7 that i can remember, in the world series, in miami.
Game 7 in Boston.
ah crap, forgot that one
but still, have we ever had a g7 in our own building?
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs/Celtics Part 3
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