DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns RFA's expected to sit out OTA's

Nothing that I'm aware of, but I also haven't been following things anywhere near as closely this offseason as I have in the past.

With all of these RFA's sitting out there, it's kinda Bizarro World in the NFL right now; and without any potential for clarity on the CBA, I would think that perhaps clubs are all trying to get much shorter term deals for ALL of these guys...


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Perhaps the agents are collectively not talking ---- isn't there something where unsigned RFA's eventually become UFA's if they were tendered and never signed??... or am I completely misremembering things??

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isn't there something where unsigned RFA's eventually become UFA's if they were tendered and never signed??... or am I completely misremembering things??

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I believe they have to sit out the year... which doesn't make a lick of sense to do.. Better to come in and get paid and not appear to be an idiot then to sit out and hope that someone remembers you next season..... That's JMO however

if they sit out and don't get paid, they are a UFA next year.
If they sign the tender and play they are UFAs next year

that's what I think but I dont have time to look it up right now.

I think you are spot on LJ...

I do not believe that is correct.

If a player sits out a year he does not accrue a year of service time as far as any player benefit goes ..... he does not move closer to free agency by sitting out a year ... so why would a player who refused to play under an RFA tender get time accrued?

That just doesn't make sense.

Players do accrue time if they are on IR .... PUP ... or any other similar type of injury list. They do not if they are placed on the Reserve/Did Not Report" list.


Maybe Shep has a link to the appropriate section of the CBA.

Oh Dang Ytown,, you may be correct..


Wouldn't that make it all the more likely that they sign at least thier tenders..

The land of the somewhat free
May 14th, 2010 @ 9:47 am by Steve Doerschuk

THE BATTLE PLAN if things don’t get resolved with the Browns’ restricted free agents who have yet to sign contract tenders, and thus won’t report to the start of “voluntary” spring practice Monday:

• Running back Jerome Harrison.

The Browns can win without him. At least, they went 10-6 in 2007 when Romeo Crennel and his offensive coordinator, Rob Chudzinski, barely used him. Harrison ran 23 times for 142 yards and no TDs that year. He caught two passes for 19 yards.

The catch: Rookie Monterio Hardesty, trade acquisition Peyton Willis and 2008 draft pick James Davis would have to add up to the sort of running punch Jamal Lewis provided in his last good year. Behind an offensive line that should be better than the one in 2007, that’s a possibility.

Also, it should be noted that when the Browns beat Pittsburgh in December, Harrison produced just 19 yards in 11 rushing-receiving touches.

That said, they want him on the team, and it’ll be a shock if he’s not there eventually.

• Fullback Lawrence Vickers.

A few of Vickers’ teammates thought he should have been the Pro Bowl fullback last season. 

Vickers threw some search-and-destroy blocks that helped spring Harrison for some of the 561 rushing yards he gained in the last three games.

One question is how the fullback’s role will evolve in the more balanced offense that is being pursued as Coordinator Brian Daboll and Holmgren lieutenant Gil Haskell continue their regular meetings.

Another question: As the team builds for the long haul, what will it learn about Harrison’s and Vickers’ eagerness to stay beyond 2010, and how eager will Tom Heckert be to keep them?

• Linebackers Matt Roth and D’Qwell Jackson

Our read from hanging around Roth a fair amount last season is that he’s highly confident in his abilities, and eager to land that one big contract players his age can command when they hit unrestricted free agency. This is just a guess, but that guess is … he’ll resent it if, after playing well in December, the Browns give him only scant evidence they want to incorporate him as a core player.

The Browns got him because the Dolphins waived him. We don’t think he’s a troublemaker, but we’re guessing he could be difficult to manage in certain ways. We also think this: He was the best player on the defense during the late winning streak.

Jackson has left us wondering if there should be a bit more than he has delivered. I can’t see him getting a big contract in the absence of a big season that shaped an effective defense.

• Safety Abram Elam.

He has played just four years since entering the league undrafted out of Kent State. The Browns are his third team. He’s an adequate starter who could become good.

I’m guessing he has some sense of allegiance to Mangini, but money talks, and if there’s a market for him, he’ll quickly go to a team willing to pay him substantially more than Cleveland will, if such a market develops after 2010.

For now, he and his agent are waiting it out, probably understanding Elam will need to get into camp in time to keep his worth progressing.

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Harrison is like a low stock that is at an all time high. I don't feel he is an elite player just one that had a nice stretch of top injury free play.

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More like an Idle stock... his stock couldn't rise given the few opportunities he had to prove his worth.. But then again, virtually every time he was called upon, he produced.. so, basically, I think you are totally off the mark on your feelings about him...

True or False.. everytime Derek Anderson got the opportunity.. He succeeded.

True of False.. everytime Jerome Harrison got the opportunity.. He succeeded

The success rate of JH is a lot higher than DA. Jerome hasn't had big games every time he suited up, but for the most part he's made plays.... and still was left on the bench far too often.

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True or False.. everytime Derek Anderson got the opportunity.. He succeeded.

True of False.. everytime Jerome Harrison got the opportunity.. He succeeded

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Both are false,,, what's your point? I said that Harrison succeeded VIRTUALLY every time he was called upon.. meaning,, NOT every time...

Wasn't really bashing you, yet along commenting on what you said. Calm down.

My point was this though..

DA is a failure. Harrison has with every opportunity given Succeeded! He's a keeper.

There must have been something that kept him out of the line up.. I mean even last year, he wasn't even active for all games..

So he gets his chance,, does well, and still, there are doubters.. this kid could end up on the HOF and even then, they'll be some that will say, "he didn't do anything his first 4 years"

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after reading Shep's post it seems like the only way a RFA that has been tendered can ever get to UFA is to sign the offer before the 10th game of the season.Or of course having the previous team withdraw the tender.Then in 2011 they are UFA.

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As Ytown stated, they have to sign by week 10 to get an accrued season in the league. Beyond that, it is defined by the CBA how many accrued seasons a player has to have before he is no longer a RFA. The opting out of the CBA by the owners created this situation where there are an inordinate amount of RFAs this year league-wide.

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If the tendered RFA sits out the year, the player is still a RFA in 2011.

Shep's post is kinda vague, but that's what I read out of it.

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Correct. If the player sits out, he remains an RFA because he did not accrue a season...but then it goes to an arbitrator to determine if there was any reason for the player to not sign any tender and sit out. (A hardship, very hard to make stick) After it goes to the arbitrator, the rights to the player revert to the original club and they can once again tender the player for a right of first refusal and original draft round selection as compensation.

More than likely these guys will sign the one year tender before camp opens up and then everyone will forget all about this thread and all of the hand-wringing that is going on since OHMYGOD they haven't signed their contract in May.

The post was vague because I tried to limit the section of the CBA that applies and let people try to understand it.....as this arises damned near each year and I try to explain it each year but people don't get it.....they just worryworryworry because OHMYGOD its May and they haven't signed....

Next on the agenda is going to be the threads about so-and-so draft picks have signed, why haven't ours????Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!!!

Here is the link to the Collective Bargaining Agreement:

http://www.nflplayers.com/About-Us/CBA-Download/

The section on RFA begins on page 56 if anyone cares to peruse it.

According to Schefter, Matt Roth has asked to be traded.

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Six months after Roth essentially forced his way out of Miami and the Browns claimed him off waivers, Roth asked Cleveland to trade him Monday, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

The unsigned restricted free agent wants a multi-year contract extension, and the two sides aren't close to reaching one. Roth had four sacks in seven games in Cleveland last year. He's expected to start this season.

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Pro Football Talk

Well, he forced his way out in Miami, played 6 games here, and is doing the same. Sounds a bit like a spoiled little brat.

The dude has no leverage. Let him sit all year and not get paid. Whatever.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/13375/contract-disputes-aplenty-in-cleveland

Contract disputes aplenty in Cleveland

By James Walker

BEREA, Ohio -- Here is a bad sign for the Cleveland Browns: The team has more contract disputes (six) than wins (five) accumulated last season.

While Cleveland attempts to climb out of the basement in a highly competitive AFC North division, a half dozen starters (including the kicker) are skipping offseason workouts in hopes of getting a larger contract.

Linebacker D'Qwell Jackson, safety Abram Elam, kicker Phil Dawson, pass-rush specialist Matt Roth and running backs Jerome Harrison and Lawrence Vickers were missing from the start of the Browns' organized team activities last week. Roth reportedly went as far as to request a trade from Cleveland, while Jackson and Elam have publicly made statements about their unhappiness. Everyone except Dawson is a restricted free agent and has yet to sign their one-year tender.

These are problems that Cleveland's new braintrust of president Mike Holmgren and general manager Tom Heckert must resolve before the start of the 2010 season. Although the players in question are solid, this power pair didn't draft any of them, and thus have no personal attachments to this group.

That makes the chances of Cleveland giving out various contract extensions to unhappy players even dicier, leading to this current standstill.

"You want them all to be here," Browns head coach Eric Mangini said at OTAs. "It's voluntary right now, and they have to make the decisions that they have to make. The thing that it does do for the guys that are here is it creates extra reps for them, which is positive because we do have quite a few guys [competing] at positions."

Will anyone get paid?

The last thing Cleveland's new regime wants to do is set a precedent for being pushovers.

The Browns recently gave in to Josh Cribbs' contract demands despite having three years left on his deal. Cleveland will pay its Pro Bowl kick returner a maximum of $18.5 million over the next three years in what is a good football and public relations move by the team.

But perhaps Cribbs' deal opened the door for other Browns to seek raises. Usually, when a team goes 5-11 the previous year, things are pretty quiet on the contract front. But Cleveland has more lingering contract disputes than most teams.

Based on recent comments, it appears Holmgren and Heckert are taking a hard-line stance.

"It's really not a big deal right now," Heckert told the Cleveland Plain Dealer during a recent speaking engagement. "First of all, it's not going to happen. It's like that with everybody. Normally when guys aren't happy with their contracts, the first thing that comes out of their mouths is, 'Give me a new deal or trade me.'

"It's not the first time we heard it, and it's not going to be the last. It's part of it and we'll deal with it when the time comes."

It's challenging for Cleveland's new front office to determine a player's value because Holmgren and Heckert were not around. Mangini and his coaching staff certainly have insight. But other than that, the front office must rely on game film from previous seasons.

It should be noted that four of the six players with contract disputes -- Roth, Elam, Harrison and Vickers -- are represented by agent Drew Rosenhaus. That could make for an interesting tussle. Rosenhaus is extremely persistent in getting his clients more money, and he's not afraid to use all the tricks in the book to create as much leverage as possible.

Impact on the field

If the Browns had to field a team right now without five starters and their kicker, they would struggle.

Last week in OTAs, the Browns' secondary, which included two rookie safeties (Larry Asante and T.J. Ward), was torched by veteran quarterback Jake Delhomme. Former undrafted linebacker Jason Trusnik also started in place of Roth, and the backfield rotation was run by unproven players such as rookie Montario Hardesty and second-year player James Davis.

To fill in for Dawson, Cleveland brought in journeyman kicker Shaun Suisham, who was recently booted from the Dallas Cowboys and Washington Redskins. Dawson has been angling for a new contract since 2008.

"You know he wasn't here last year, either, and I know Tom talked about it the other day, the contract-related things," Mangini said of Dawson. "I'll let Tom continue to talk about that. We're continuing to move on with our special-teams install."

Where all of these contract disputes will lead is anyone's guess. The situation will get even more interesting next month when the Browns host their mandatory minicamp June 10-12.

But Cleveland already is at a talent deficit this season when it comes to matching up against the Cincinnati Bengals, Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers. Having contract issues with six key contributors this offseason certainly doesn't help bridge the gap.

A stupid article, generally speaking.

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These are problems that Cleveland's new braintrust of president Mike Holmgren and general manager Tom Heckert must resolve before the start of the 2010 season.

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Wow, did you come to this conclusion all by yourself, Mr. Walker?

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It should be noted that four of the six players with contract disputes -- Roth, Elam, Harrison and Vickers -- are represented by agent Drew Rosenhaus. That could make for an interesting tussle. Rosenhaus is extremely persistent in getting his clients more money, and he's not afraid to use all the tricks in the book to create as much leverage as possible.

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Or, perhaps the thing is being orchestrated by Rosenhaus

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Last week in OTAs, the Browns' secondary, which included two rookie safeties (Larry Asante and T.J. Ward), was torched by veteran quarterback Jake Delhomme. Former undrafted linebacker Jason Trusnik also started in place of Roth, and the backfield rotation was run by unproven players such as rookie Montario Hardesty and second-year player James Davis.

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And has been mentioned even before they offense did it, this is the time of year that the offense SHOULD do this. Nobody is hitting anyone.





Walker, Grossi & Mary Kay should all give up writing and take jobs at Sherwin-Williams, they just love to try stirring crap.

Cleveland Browns RFA running back Jerome Harrison joins OTAs despite not signing tender
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
May 27, 2010, 10:28AM

Cleveland Browns running back Jerome Harrison is practicing despite not being under contract.
CLEVELAND -- Browns running back Jerome Harrison, who rushed for 561 yards in the final three games of last season, has been participating in organized team activities this week despite not signing his one-year tender yet.
Harrison was absent today, the one day of the week open to the media, but was here the first two days of the session. Coach Eric Mangini said Harrison's absence today was unrelated to his contract situatoion.
Mangini said Harrison is the only unrestricted free agent participating. The absentees are Matt Roth, D'Qwell Jackson, Lawrence Vickers and Abe Elam.
"I think it's good for everyone to be here because it's the second round of install and it helps the player and it helps us for when we go to camp,'' said Mangini. "I'm glad Jerome is here and I expect him to be here next week.''
The Browns have added two other running backs to compete with Harrison this season. Peyton Hillis was acquired in the trade with Denver for Brady Quinn, and the Browns traded up to draft Tennessee's Montario Hardesty in the second-round.
The Browns have said Harrison and Hardesty can provide a good one-two punch in the backfield, with Hardesty being more of the power back.
Harrison skipped the first session of OTAs last week presumably because of his contract situation.


Somebody got the message. There is playing time available to Harrison. He doesn't want to be forgotten.

LINK

LOL Shows you how much walker knows.. Harrison was there, but Walker didn't know it..

You are right, With all those RB's in camp,, Hardesty, Davis, Hillis,,, etc,, Harrison knows that getting into the OTA's is important if he want's playing time,,.

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Somebody got the message. There is playing time available to Harrison. He doesn't want to be forgotten.

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Great point. Playing time IS available to him, but it's also very easy for someone else to pass him up for that same playing time.

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"I think it's good for everyone to be here because it's the second round of install and it helps the player and it helps us for when we go to camp,'' said Mangini.

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I think that the most important "2nd round" to Harrison was the 2nd round pick we spent on Hardesty ... who was reported as having been impressive in the OTAs.

No one wants to lose their job in the off-season while they sit on their butt and allow others to pass them on the depth chart.

Vickers could be ... and I do stress "could" be .... in trouble if Hillis does a good job in the blocking schemes, along with learning the passing plays. Hillis is probably already a superior pass receiver and runner .... so if he can handle blocking well ..... well .... Vickers could be in trouble.

And with the additions of Gocong and Fujita, Matt Roth - while still damned good - becomes a little less important.

Actually, to me, Dawson is the only one worth worrying about. I would REALLY like to see him get a long term deal that has him retire a Brown.

Well ... he's under contract for this year ..... and with labor uncertainty for next year I don't see any way that he would sit out this year and then potentially have to try to come back as an older kicker who had been out of the game for 2 years. (If the NFL has a lockout next year)

I do want all of these guys in camp for the simple reason that I want the best competition possible. However, I do accept that most of them will not see the field at Berea until the absolutely latest day possible before they start losing money.

I'm thinking that we might see a flood of RFAs signing their one year tenders on June 14th ......

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/06/cleveland_browns_extend_contra.html

Cleveland Browns extend contract offers to RFAs until June 15
By Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer
June 01, 2010, 3:51PM

CLEVELAND -- The Browns have extended their one-year contract tenders to their five unsigned restricted free agents, said a team source.

If the club had changed its mind about any of the players since tendering them the one-year contracts in March, this would have been the time to rescind the offer. Doing so would make the players unrestricted free agents.

By extending the contract tenders, the Browns are giving the players two weeks to sign the deals or risk having them significantly reduced. According to the current rules, if an RFA does not sign his contract tender by June 15, the club can substitute the tender with a 10 percent raise over his 2009 base salary.

Four of the Browns' five RFAs -- running back Jerome Harrison, linebacker D'Qwell Jackson, linebacker Matt Roth and fullback Lawrence Vickers -- would lose more than $1 million if the club exercised this option.

Safety Abe Elam's tender would reduce from the current $1.759 million to about $1.65 million.

General Manager Tom Heckert has said the Browns are considering reducing the offers on June 15. All the RFAs have boycotted the team's offseason program with the exception of Harrison, who rejoined the team last week.

I can't blame the players for not signing yet. They will make the same amount whether or not they sign now or June 15. I would rather sleep at home with my wife than in a dorm room with a smelly sweaty dude.

Unless by missing out on those sweaty smelly OTA's you lose your job to a hungrier player who was given the opportunity. Then again maybe playing doesn't matter and it's only the $$$ that talks.