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also, didn't the cavs nearly beat the bulls, in chicago, minus lebron back in april? i believe that may have been the start of lebron's injury. he rested that night and the bulls barely came out of there with a win.
maybe his supporting cast wasn't all that bad. maybe it was shaq that was the problem. i tend to think not but they were actually playing great when he was not there.
you can go forever with this. you really can.
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maybe his supporting cast wasn't all that bad. maybe it was shaq that was the problem. i tend to think not but they were actually playing great when he was not there.
I think Shaq was part of the problem ... but only against Boston. Simply put, Mike Brown insisted on playing the wrong lineup against Boston, just because he thought they were his "best 5". Andy matched up better defensively against KG, and Hickson would of ran circles around Perkins. Instead, we insisted on letting Perkins neutralize Shaq and AJ lose the head-to-head match up with KG. Shaq/AJ would of been much better for Orlando or LA ... something we never got to see.
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Alrighty guys lets explore another one of the ideas I mentioned:
Cleveland gets:
Joe Johnson: $14 million sign and trade
Zaza Pachulia: $4.2 million through 2012/2013
Atlanta gets:
Antawn Jamison: $13.5 million through 2011/2012
Delonte West: $4.6 million expiring contract
Future First round pick
In this deal the Hawks get to rid themselves of the contract that they gave to Zaza, and gain cap flexibility in the process. They also pick up Jamison who could be decent piece if they decide to stick with the team they have and continue to make a playoff run.
West who could fill in for Johnson at the shooting guard. The Cavs take on Zaza's contract and could use his size to replace Shaq and Z, and get the sharp-shooting star to play next to LeBron.
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Alrighty guys lets explore another one of the ideas I mentioned:
Cleveland gets:
Joe Johnson: $14 million sign and trade
Zaza Pachulia: $4.2 million through 2012/2013
Atlanta gets:
Antawn Jamison: $13.5 million through 2011/2012
Delonte West: $4.6 million expiring contract
Future First round pick
In this deal the Hawks get to rid themselves of the contract that they gave to Zaza, and gain cap flexibility in the process. They also pick up Jamison who could be decent piece if they decide to stick with the team they have and continue to make a playoff run.
West who could fill in for Johnson at the shooting guard. The Cavs take on Zaza's contract and could use his size to replace Shaq and Z, and get the sharp-shooting star to play next to LeBron.
i must have missed something. Atlanta gives up $4.2mil contract, takes on $14mil contracts for next year (Delonte's 500K + Jamison) and they 'gain' cap flexibility?
and they get rid of ~$13mil of Zaza's contracts but add $27mil of Jamison's and they are happy? yes, Zaza has one extra year, but total $$$ doesn't add up.
how exactly does this help the Hawks?
#gmstrong
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how exactly does this help the Hawks?
Because if they're going to lose Joe they might as well get something out of it. They won't have much cap room even if Joe leaves. They can get rid of Zazas contract and get some talent in return.
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how exactly does this help the Hawks?
Because if they're going to lose Joe they might as well get something out of it. They won't have much cap room even if Joe leaves. They can get rid of Zazas contract and get some talent in return.
but getting rid of a contract to just take on a worse one. i understand that jamison is better than zaza, but he's also much more expensive.
probably just an ideological issue between us on this though. i think if they can't get equal talent in return, you let them walk, bottom out, and get better through the draft.
#gmstrong
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probably just an ideological issue between us on this though.
Looks like basic math to me.
We'll give up on a team in the middle of a playoff series but dream up pipe dream trade scenarios in hopes of LeBron staying. 
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Speak for yourself, I pretty much drowned with the sinking ship on that one  
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Speak for yourself, I pretty much drowned with the sinking ship on that one
Yeah I know the series had the feel that it was over midway through and that's not my gripe here.
It's the trade scenarios. Is anyone really reading these and keeping a straight face? The Cavs without LeBron had a better chance of coming back from 3-2 than any of this happening.
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the cavs are in a tough spot, to work a sign and trade they are going to need so many things to go right
1. you need lebron to come back, obviously.
2. you either need to give up young talent
3. or, take on a bad contract
and honestly, the more i think about this, the more this is part lebron's mess. never getting a full commitment from him or his "team", the constant mystery of where he wants to be in the future.
it's bad enough that cleveland is not a very desirable place for nba stars to come, but when your superstar is wishy washy on staying. sometimes he says things that make it seem like he wants to finish as a cav, and other times he makes it seem like he wants out (all part of his marketing act, this keeps his name in the news, which helps sell merch, sell his name) it makes it even more difficult for danny ferry to make this team better.
like me and others mentioned before, we had a very small window from when lbj was drafted, to the time they were good enough to make the playoffs, to gain players with high draft picks. we swung and missed.
when we cleared cap space to sign players, the top guys took their max deals from their teams and cleveland was left with the best of the bunch. and the bunch was not good at all.
i said a while back on this board, that the only way lebron was leaving is if he thought this organization was going in the wrong direction. and right now it looks like that, even though i don't believe that to be 100% true. when i said that, i imagined if that became true it would have been the cavs adding the pieces, lebron playing his ass off, and just coming up short. it didn't work out like that. lebron was the guy you can point the finger at, whether it be injury/mental/whatever.
it is very bizzarre how the year ended. but it plays right into lebron's hands. because nobody really knows what he is thinking, the media is trying to make you think that his team is bad, and other situations are better, but this is on lebron.
and just for the record, i love the guy, but i think the way he's holding the city of cleveland hostage is just wrong. if he goes into mid july, and then bolts town, that would disgust me, and should disgust all cleveland/cavs fans. that is the ultimate kick in the jewels to the city, to his team, and to ownership, which has bent overbackwards for him.
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Just listened to windhorst podacst. this is what he had to say
*Lebron will put the cavs in a bad spot as far as finding a coach, by making up his mind so late. he believes james won't make up his mind until beginning to mid july. He believes by that time most jobs will be filled, leaving the cavs with less desirable candidates. He also said if he does stay, every coach in the nba or ncaa would consider coming here.
*THe new coach will be offensive minded, so you could cross out jeff van gundy, fratello, or avery johnson. Since Calapari is more offensive minded, he will be considered.
*Lebron won't ask for brown's termination.
*No guarantee ferry will resign. especialy if his hand is forced to hire a coach he doesn't approve of.
*We have plenty of flexability to make roster moves. West, Parker, and Moon's contracts are all up. said west only has 500k guaranteed of the 4.6 million. Hickson's value has never been higher. he would be a top 6 pick in this summer's draft according to windhorst.
*Believes brown is a good coach. blames the demise on injuries, no continuity going into the playoffs. he thinks there aren't too many coaches on the market better than mike.
*This will be lebron's top 3 teams he considers for free agency.
1.cavs
2.knicks
3bulls
He thinks the knicks could land lbj and bosh, which would be better than chi-town's rose and noah. Wade isn't going anywhere. Lbj will be very hard pressed to move his family, and himself from the akron-cleveland area. thinks he will stay a cav.
Even if he signs a 6 year deal, thinks the media won't give up hope, james will bolt c-town. people in LA, and new york can't understand why james would stay in c-town.
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I can't wait for this to be over so I can make my own decision. I love sports, but this has the look of a firestorm, for me personally. But that's not why I really hope he stays,....he needs to do that for ALL Cleveland fans. Just my opinion.
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*Lebron will put the cavs in a bad spot as far as finding a coach, by making up his mind so late. he believes james won't make up his mind until beginning to mid july. He believes by that time most jobs will be filled, leaving the cavs with less desirable candidates. He also said if he does stay, every coach in the nba or ncaa would consider coming here.
so what the hell do you do? you know damn well that no coach, especially any bigger names, are going to come to cleveland without full knowledge of what's going to happen. and can any of us really see a coach coming here because he's confident lbj stays?
do you go to lebron and tell him that if he had any plans of sticking around, an early decision would really help, so that they can interview the full pool of candidates?
unless... every team gets handcuffed by lbj waiting, and nobody signs until he makes his decision. that i can definitely see. considering the other free agents aren't going anywhere until lbj makes his decision, i can actually really see that.
windy definitely thinks lbj stays. i heard him on the local shows here telling folks that.
and if you follow him on twitter, he definitely is in mike brown's corner.
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I have a lot of respect for Windhorst as a writer and I agree with him on the Mike Brown thing. I think Brown is a good coach, only issue I take is the lack of mid game adjustments. If we cant land someone better than Brown, then why fire the guy?
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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because lbj does not want him as a coach. now we don't know that for sure, but it sure seems like it.
mike is a young guy still. people forget that. he's going through his growing pains as a coach, and i don't think the cavs, or lebron wanna wait for him to come around. the guy knows what he's doing though, and he's going to have a few teams lined up that wouldn't mind him coaching their team.
i just hope the next guy is a good one.
i know people have mentioned phil jackson, maybe not so much on here, but in other places, and i just can't see it. would love it, but why would you leave what you have. the only way i see phil coming to cleveland is if he thinks he's gotten everything out of that laker team, and he wants to put the icing on the cake for his career.
he won 6 championships with the bulls back to back to back, twice.
2 seperate, great runs with the lakers.
and you end what will be a 47 year old drought with lebron james.
still can't see it though. but man, if he did, i would bank on us getting a big name guy in a sign and trade. wade, bosh, someone. i would put money on it.
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Ultimately, that's the only way I see Lebron staying. If we fire Brown, make a HUGE play for Phil Jackson, and then making some other big moves to get another piece. Phil would bring a swagger that Lebron wants...a swagger of winning.
But ya, if the Lakers win it all.....why would he leave? Heck, they'd be setup to do another threepeat.
1% chance.
Personally, if I was Lebron I'd go somewhere else. I won't begrudge him for leaving, if he does. I moved away from Cleveland for a better paying job in a bigger city...why can't he do the same?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Personally, if I was Lebron I'd go somewhere else. I won't begrudge him for leaving, if he does. I moved away from Cleveland for a better paying job in a bigger city...why can't he do the same?
Most people look at the scale.. it's one thing to move from a $60K job to a $85K job to enjoy that 40% increase... do you really get added joy moving from a situation where you make $120million a year to a situation where you make $150million a year? Do you get a better quality of life from that? Do you guarantee your kids can now go to college? Is there anything you can afford now that you couldn't afford before?
yebat' Putin
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Personally, if I was Lebron I'd go somewhere else. I won't begrudge him for leaving, if he does. I moved away from Cleveland for a better paying job in a bigger city...why can't he do the same?
Most people look at the scale.. it's one thing to move from a $60K job to a $85K job to enjoy that 40% increase... do you really get added joy moving from a situation where you make $120million a year to a situation where you make $150million a year? Do you get a better quality of life from that? Do you guarantee your kids can now go to college? Is there anything you can afford now that you couldn't afford before?
Fair questions. However it's his scale, relative to him, not us "normal" people. Of course he could afford anything his mind could dream up today.
I try to rephrase. I left Cleveland for Chicago for what I thought was a better life. If he wants to go to NY/NJ, Miami, or Chicago for a better life too, how can I argue with the decision? Internally, the decision is our own and we make the reasons.
If he's always wanted to be the MAN in NY and have his home arena in the Garden.....how can we as fans really be mad if he follows his dream? It's not like his dream is to destroy basketball in Cleveland. While his decision is sorta tied to that fate, it's a free country, he's a free agent, he gave us seven years, and he's his own man. He should have the right to decide his future.
I don't know if my basketball fandom will follow him to a new city, change to a new team, stay with the Cavs, or just disappear. I was a Browns fan since first thought....and I started following the Cavs and Indians in high school. I could drop the Indians and Cavs and try turning my interest more towards the NHL or other things.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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so what the hell do you do? you know damn well that no coach, especially any bigger names, are going to come to cleveland without full knowledge of what's going to happen. and can any of us really see a coach coming here because he's confident lbj stays?
Well you will have to either overpay for a coach or give him the option to opt out after 1 year. That way you can get the coach you want and if Lebron still leaves he would be able to leave after 1 year and go to a team he wants. I think waiting until Lebron makes his decision is not an option. They need to think outside the box.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum what can the Cavs do IF LeBron
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