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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Obama is getting a free pass here ... a blatant, disgusting free pass not seen since Bush started his erroneous wars ... where are the environmentalists to scream at this cat?
To quote one of the most overrated literary figures in history -- phonies. All a bunch of damn phonies.
so. here is a question.. what do you expect Obama to do? Jump into a scuba suit and go down and plug the hole himself?
I guess stricter regulations are in order, but then you'd have Republicans screaming about that... so What do you realy expect Obama to do? It's not like Katrina where there is some sort of advanced warning.... Not that Katrina's response was all of Bush's fault.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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I expect Obama to be a leader and stop cowering and pointing fingers.
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Legend
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squi...I heard those "exact" words on the radio just last week...never guess who said them?...I didn't know you listened to him. 
Everyone knows Obama could never do anything to satisfy some...if the President goes down to the Gulf once every two weeks, the rabid right jumps up and down and screams..."photo op"..."photo op"...Obama is using the oil crisis for political gain.
One thing is for sure, some are playing their role as parrots very well.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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This is going to make the Gulf War oil spill look like someone peeing in a river.
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All Pro
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squi...I heard those "exact" words on the radio just last week...never guess who said them?...I didn't know you listened to him.
Everyone knows Obama could never do anything to satisfy some...if the President goes down to the Gulf once every two weeks, the rabid right jumps up and down and screams..."photo op"..."photo op"...Obama is using the oil crisis for political gain.
One thing is for sure, some are playing their role as parrots very well.
The only part of any interest in the scenario is to watch for the people that defended Bush in the Katrina days defend Obama...and those that damned Bush then damn Obama now. The rest are part of the problem...
Edit: Simplistic explanation I know, sorry. Sprained my wrist and one hand typing isnt my strong suit...thats my excuse today lol
Last edited by LexDawg; 05/31/10 10:32 AM.
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BP needs to be held by and far more accountable for this than Obama or anyone else. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/us/30rig.html?pagewanted=allQuote:
WASHINGTON — Internal documents from BP show that there were serious problems and safety concerns with the Deepwater Horizon rig far earlier than those the company described to Congress last week.
Mark E. Hafle, a senior drilling engineer for BP, being sworn in before testifying on Friday at a hearing into the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon rig.
The problems involved the well casing and the blowout preventer, which are considered critical pieces in the chain of events that led to the disaster on the rig.
The documents show that in March, after several weeks of problems on the rig, BP was struggling with a loss of “well control.” And as far back as 11 months ago, it was concerned about the well casing and the blowout preventer.
On June 22, for example, BP engineers expressed concerns that the metal casing the company wanted to use might collapse under high pressure.
“This would certainly be a worst-case scenario,” Mark E. Hafle, a senior drilling engineer at BP, warned in an internal report. “However, I have seen it happen so know it can occur.”
The company went ahead with the casing, but only after getting special permission from BP colleagues because it violated the company’s safety policies and design standards. The internal reports do not explain why the company allowed for an exception. BP documents released last week to The Times revealed that company officials knew the casing was the riskier of two options.
Though his report indicates that the company was aware of certain risks and that it made the exception, Mr. Hafle, testifying before a panel on Friday in Louisiana about the cause of the rig disaster, rejected the notion that the company had taken risks.
“Nobody believed there was going to be a safety issue,” Mr. Hafle told a six-member panel of Coast Guard and Minerals Management Service officials.
“All the risks had been addressed, all the concerns had been addressed, and we had a model that suggested if executed properly we would have a successful job,” he said.
Mr. Hafle, asked for comment by a reporter after his testimony Friday about the internal report, declined to answer questions.
BP’s concerns about the casing did not go away after Mr. Hafle’s 2009 report.
In April of this year, BP engineers concluded that the casing was “unlikely to be a successful cement job,” according to a document, referring to how the casing would be sealed to prevent gases from escaping up the well.
The document also says that the plan for casing the well is “unable to fulfill M.M.S. regulations,” referring to the Minerals Management Service.
A second version of the same document says “It is possible to obtain a successful cement job” and “It is possible to fulfill M.M.S. regulations.”
Andrew Gowers, a BP spokesman, said the second document was produced after further testing had been done.
On Tuesday Congress released a memorandum with preliminary findings from BP’s internal investigation, which indicated that there were warning signs immediately before the explosion on April 20, including equipment readings suggesting that gas was bubbling into the well, a potential sign of an impending blowout.
A parade of witnesses at hearings last week told about bad decisions and cut corners in the days and hours before the explosion of the rig, but BP’s internal documents provide a clearer picture of when company and federal officials saw problems emerging.
In addition to focusing on the casing, investigators are also focusing on the blowout preventer, a fail-safe device that was supposed to slice through a drill pipe in a last-ditch effort to close off the well when the disaster struck. The blowout preventer did not work, which is one of the reasons oil has continued to spill into the gulf, though the reason it failed remains unclear.
Federal drilling records and well reports obtained through the Freedom of Information Act and BP’s internal documents, including more than 50,000 pages of company e-mail messages, inspection reports, engineering studies and other company records obtained by The Times from Congressional investigators, shed new light on the extent and timing of problems with the blowout preventer and the casing long before the explosion.
Kendra Barkoff, a spokeswoman for the Interior Department, declined to answer questions about the casings, the blowout preventer and regulators’ oversight of the rig because those matters are part of a continuing investigation.
The documents show that in March, after problems on the rig that included drilling mud falling into the formation, sudden gas releases known as “kicks” and a pipe falling into the well, BP officials informed federal regulators that they were struggling with a loss of “well control.”
On at least three occasions, BP records indicate, the blowout preventer was leaking fluid, which the manufacturer of the device has said limits its ability to operate properly.
“The most important thing at a time like this is to stop everything and get the operation under control,” said Greg McCormack, director of the Petroleum Extension Service at the University of Texas, Austin, offering his assessment about the documents.
He added that he was surprised that regulators and company officials did not commence a review of whether drilling should continue after the well was brought under control.
After informing regulators of their struggles, company officials asked for permission to delay their federally mandated test of the blowout preventer, which is supposed to occur every two weeks, until the problems were resolved, BP documents say.
At first, the minerals agency declined.
“Sorry, we cannot grant a departure on the B.O.P. test further than when you get the well under control,” wrote Frank Patton, a minerals agency official. But BP officials pressed harder, citing “major concerns” about doing the test the next day. And by 10:58 p.m., David Trocquet, another M.M.S. official, acquiesced.
“After further consideration,” Mr. Trocquet wrote, “an extension is approved to delay the B.O.P. test until the lower cement plug is set.”
When the blowout preventer was eventually tested again, it was tested at a lower pressure — 6,500 pounds per square inch — than the 10,000-pounds-per-square-inch tests used on the device before the delay. It tested at this lower pressure until the explosion.
A review of Minerals Management Service’s data of all B.O.P. tests done in deep water in the Gulf of Mexico for five years shows B.O.P. tests rarely dropped so sharply, and, in general, either continued at the same threshold or were done at increasing levels.
The manufacturer of the blowout preventer, Cameron, declined to say what the appropriate testing pressure was for the device.
In an e-mail message, Mr. Gowers of BP wrote that until their investigation was complete, it was premature to answer questions about the casings or the blowout preventer.
Even though the documents asking regulators about testing the blowout preventer are from BP, Mr. Gowers said that any questions regarding the device should be directed to Transocean, which owns the rig and, he said, was responsible for maintenance and testing of the device. Transocean officials declined to comment.
Bob Sherrill, an expert on blowout preventers and the owner of Blackwater Subsea, an engineering consulting firm, said the conditions on the rig in February and March and the language used by the operator referring to a loss of well control “sounds like they were facing a blowout scenario.”
Mr. Sherrill said federal regulators made the right call in delaying the blowout test, because doing a test before the well is stable risks gas kicks. But once the well was stable, he added, it would have made sense for regulators to investigate the problems further.
In April, the month the rig exploded, workers encountered obstructions in the well. Most of the problems were conveyed to federal regulators, according to federal records. Many of the incidents required that BP get a permit for a new tactic for dealing with the problem.
One of the final indications of such problems was an April 15 request for a permit to revise its plan to deal with a blockage, according to federal documents obtained from Congress by the Center for Biological Diversity, an environmental advocacy group.
In the documents, company officials apologized to federal regulators for not having mentioned the type of casing they were using earlier, adding that they had “inadvertently” failed to include it. In the permit request, they did not disclose BP’s own internal concerns about the design of the casing.
Less than 10 minutes after the request was submitted, federal regulators approved the permit.
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squi...I heard those "exact" words on the radio just last week...never guess who said them?...I didn't know you listened to him.
Everyone knows Obama could never do anything to satisfy some...if the President goes down to the Gulf once every two weeks, the rabid right jumps up and down and screams..."photo op"..."photo op"...Obama is using the oil crisis for political gain.
One thing is for sure, some are playing their role as parrots very well.
I don't listen to the radio mac, so no, I don't know who said them. I do know if this happened on Bush's watch you'd be on here throwing a temper tantrum about it mac.
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One thing is for sure, some are playing their role as parrots very well.
Want a cracker?
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Dawg Talker
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I expect Obama to be a leader and stop cowering and pointing fingers.
Care to explain what you mean by cowering and pointing fingers? There really is not much Obama can do besides say "We need to stop this gusher and clean the area... it is an outrage of what is happening to our environment that those guys did" besides working with BP and trying to get this gusher to stop.
We need to worry about stopping the gusher first.. then we need to look at finding blame and punishment.. After this I do expect more rigorous safety regulations and not just a single safety net, but a multitude of them. We cannot let what occurred after the 1969 Santa Barbara Blowout to occur when environmentalists used it as an excuse to stop offshore oil drilling in CA.. Unfortunately, we do need the oil for the time being and will still need it when and after and if all our cars stop using oil.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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The strategy is very simple to dramatically reduce our dependence on foreign oil:
1) Convert all commercial vehicles to CNG. (Compressed Natural Gas)
2) Start selling diesels in cars and lowering the tax on diesel to gasoline levels since CNG would be the "new commercial fuel". (Diesels can very easily get 60 combined MPG's in small cars, and significantly higher MPG's than gasoline in larger cars and SUV's as well)
3) Work towards getting plug-in hybrid tech like the Chevy Volt mainstream quicker.
1 and 2 are the most feasible right now and something we should look to do.
Of course, Big Oil will try to block that...they already have.
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Quote:
I expect Obama to be a leader and stop cowering and pointing fingers.
Care to explain what you mean by cowering and pointing fingers? There really is not much Obama can do besides say "We need to stop this gusher and clean the area... it is an outrage of what is happening to our environment that those guys did" besides working with BP and trying to get this gusher to stop.
We need to worry about stopping the gusher first.. then we need to look at finding blame and punishment.. After this I do expect more rigorous safety regulations and not just a single safety net, but a multitude of them. We cannot let what occurred after the 1969 Santa Barbara Blowout to occur when environmentalists used it as an excuse to stop offshore oil drilling in CA.. Unfortunately, we do need the oil for the time being and will still need it when and after and if all our cars stop using oil.
AGREE,...Some good common sense points,.... 
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I can see why folks are upset that Obama's getting kid glove treatment compared to the way Bush was being crucified within days of Katrina.
Bush showed a lack of leadership then and Obama's really showing it now. Why the double standard?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I guess it's all in how we define "leadership."
I never understood why folks bashed Bush during the Katrina aftermath, and I don't get why others are bashing Obama now.
Both presidents had layers upon layers of professionals beneath them to deal with the hands-on aspects of disater relief.
Like another poster said, beyond using the office as a bully pulpit to bring pressure, there's not really much for either of them to do.
So, as far as I can see it, BOTH presidents showed just about as much "leadership" as the situations warranted. The "leadership" problem seems to be in the folks who actually choose the specific courses of action...
...you know- the so-called "experts."
Just exactly what else was either pres supposed to do?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Maybe now we'll start investing into the research behind solar and wind power. It should have started fifty years ago.............
We have the technology to run our cars on electric, kinetic or outlet, energy. Solely solar powered homes are already popping up in some areas of my hometown, Toronto, but only for those who can afford the panels at their current prices.
Anyone remember GM's EV1 & how there were power stations set up on California highways 10 years ago or so? Those cars were only leased & then GM destroyed all the cars upon ending the model and taking back all the leased vehicles. Electric car technology exists, we don't have to wait until we are like the Jetson's to obtain it.
The main problem with the oil industry is economics because the technology exists to get away from it. We have so many industries dependent on oil based products/services that it would be catastrophic economically to make such a change away from oil very quickly. The transition will take time as costs for the means of obtaining forms of electric and solar energy come down & people/corporations can transition them selves to work with or produce products that are not dependent on oil based products.
Anywho, I am ranting. lol. However, I hate watching most newscasts and believe most of it is garbage that is reported. But this Gulf oil spill makes me #$%^ sick. An incident like this is the worst example of what is wrong with our economic system and some core beliefs some hold within our society. I wish I could do more than post on a message board about it or donate money.
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Obama is getting a free pass here ... a blatant, disgusting free pass not seen since Bush started his erroneous wars ... where are the environmentalists to scream at this cat?
To quote one of the most overrated literary figures in history -- phonies. All a bunch of damn phonies.
so. here is a question.. what do you expect Obama to do? Jump into a scuba suit and go down and plug the hole himself?
I guess stricter regulations are in order, but then you'd have Republicans screaming about that... so What do you realy expect Obama to do? It's not like Katrina where there is some sort of advanced warning.... Not that Katrina's response was all of Bush's fault.
I'm generally not one for useless P.R. stuff ... but in these kind of situations, it matters in a way.
Remember after 9/11, when Bush stood on the rubble with the bullhorn? It was kind of an empty gesture ... but it meant something to people. It eased fears.
And when Katrina happened ... even if we had the same failures ... if Bush had been waist deep in the water with a bullhorn telling people that it would be OK ... it would've helped. Instead, you got the appearance of confusion, inaction and even indifference.
Again, it's trivial ... but in a way it matters.
The other day Carville said something to the effect of 'he should've been down there immediately, and his approval rating should be up 7 points as a result.'
So to answer your question ... I expect him to treat this thing like it's a national emergency. I expect him to take charge. His job isn't only to find a solution -- it's to ease fears.
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I can see why folks are upset that Obama's getting kid glove treatment compared to the way Bush was being crucified within days of Katrina.
Bush showed a lack of leadership then and Obama's really showing it now. Why the double standard?
 Hey,...I don't know, just pointing out that it's frustrating, on a lot of fronts, when no "common sense" is applied. That Obama may, or may not, be getting kid glove treatment on it, and that Bush would, or wouldn't have, is not my issue. That's old history and it is what it is. Fixing it all -- and that's not about to happen -- is my pipe dream, npi.
Have seen some good, out-of-the-box ideas here on how to stop this gusher. It just makes you wonder what it really is gonna take, etc. The concrete, pipe sleeves, glues, and dissolvers all sound like they ought to work,...I'm no engineer. I'm just sad for our country and our economic foundation being so fragile/dependent on single source energy. I want to drill, but want it to be safe.
Know what I mean ? It's a conundrum, for sure,....
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You're right we should have started investing in alternative fuels 50 years ago.
Why? Oil was cheap, available, and our infrastructure was already set up to use it. Did you watch your cholesterol when you were 12?
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The problem? Special interests influencing government.
Saying the special interests are the problem and not the government is like saying a young pregnant girl is to blame for getting pregnant but the boy who couldn't say "No" is not.... in both cases it takes two weak minded people (or groups) to tango... the oil industry isn't holding a gun to anybody's head to get everything they want..
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Everyone hates the government dabbling in the free market's business, well, what about the opposite?
who is "everyone"? I'm about as big of a free market proponent as there is on this board and I have no problem with a little oversight.. problem is, as in this case, the oversight was in place but the $40K a year government workers were enjoying their golf and fishing vacations too much to enforce it.
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"The free market solves all woes" is a load of crap,
Actually it's not but it's one of those "works well in theory" kind of things.. it requires a few things.. the first being an informed and involved public, which we don't have. People (all the people) have to be willing to take a unified stand against companies that screw up, that screw the people, that screw their own employees, etc.. and we don't have that. The other thing you need is time... you need time for companies to make mistakes, have people react to those mistakes, pay for those mistakes, etc.. as I stated, we don't have a population that will make them pay and even if we did, the government will come rushing in with new regulations long before a company has a chance to face the free market consequences. In fact I would say that the government bails them out more often than not. A company seriously screws up, the government sends a person or two to prison and imposes a fine and enacts some new legislation so they can't do it again and what happens? The average person thinks its over.. that there is no need for you and me to punish them with our wallet.. and we go back to doing things the way we always have... and the companies live on...
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The truth is somewhere in between but no one's willing to reach a common ground on it.
Where have we not reached a common ground? Can oil companies drill wherever they want even if they own the land? No, they need a permit from the government so the government dictates WHERE you can drill. Can they drill however they want? No, there are tons of laws on the books regarding safety and inspections.. some are followed and some are not but the laws are there. Can they sell the oil wherever and however they want? No, there are octane ratings that must be met nationally and for each state... So tell me how there is no common ground or compromise?
yebat' Putin
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The strategy is very simple to dramatically reduce our dependence on foreign oil:
1) Convert all commercial vehicles to CNG. (Compressed Natural Gas)
Okay ... so switch from one fossil fuel to another. After several trillion spent in infrastructure changes, we'd have some of the exact same problems we'd have with oil ... with much higher costs.
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2) Start selling diesels in cars and lowering the tax on diesel to gasoline levels since CNG would be the "new commercial fuel". (Diesels can very easily get 60 combined MPG's in small cars, and significantly higher MPG's than gasoline in larger cars and SUV's as well)
Diesel comes from the same source as gas ... unless you're talking about bio diesel ... in which case, prepare for much higher food costs. Not to mention a big switch of demand to diesel will cause the costs of freight shipping to go up, which would translate to higher costs around the board for most consumer goods.
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3) Work towards getting plug-in hybrid tech like the Chevy Volt mainstream quicker.
Which would translate fuels burnt in the car, to fuels burnt in a power plant.
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Of course, Big Oil will try to block that...they already have.
As much as you'd like to believe in a conspiracy that "Big" Oil is manipulating the market place ... money is what ultimately rules all. Up until recently, Gasoline has just been far, far cheaper than any other alternative. When it becomes economically feasible to do so, people will switch to another means. In Germany, where gasoline costs $9 a gallon, Diesel cars are much more prevailent.
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As much as you'd like to believe in a conspiracy that "Big" Oil is manipulating the market place ... money is what ultimately rules all. Up until recently, Gasoline has just been far, far cheaper than any other alternative. When it becomes economically feasible to do so, people will switch to another means. In Germany, where gasoline costs $9 a gallon, Diesel cars are much more prevailent.
actually this year is the first time in the longest time that I have seen gas prices go down before Memorial Day Weekend.. and I live in So. Cal
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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I haven't left the house yet,...I cannot wait to see what they are this morning,...they went DOWN a penny every day over the four day holiday -- I thought that was EXTREMELY weird, compared to their past history.
I fully expect they will go to 2.75 this morning. Yesterday's low was 2.38.
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DANG,...! It's down again another cent,...$2.37.9
They must be waiting for school to let out and vacation driving to start.
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barrel of oil dropped from around $85 to below $75 in the last month, thats a part of it, and I'd bet that is in part to the pinch Europe is feeling as well as China beginning to enter a recession.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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BP stock tumbles as feds announce oil-spill probes
TUESDAY Jun 01, 2010 18:10 ET
By MIKE KUNZELMAN and GREG BLUESTEIN, Associated Press
BP's stock plummeted and took much of the market down with it Tuesday as the federal government announced criminal and civil investigations into the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. BP engineers, meanwhile, tried to recover from a failed attempt to stop the gusher with an effort that will initially make the leak worse.
Attorney General Eric Holder, who was visiting the Gulf to survey the fragile coastline and meet with state and federal prosecutors, would not say who might be targeted in the probes into the largest oil spill in U.S. history.
"We will closely examine the actions of those involved in the spill. If we find evidence of illegal behavior, we will be extremely forceful in our response," Holder said in New Orleans.
BP's stock nose-dived on Tuesday, losing nearly 15 percent of its value on the first trading day since the previous best option -- the so-called "top kill" -- failed and was aborted at the government's direction. It dipped steeply with Holder's late-afternoon announcement, which also sent other energy stocks tumbling, ultimately causing the Dow Jones industrial average to tumble 112.
After six weeks of failures to block the well or divert the oil, BP was using robotic machines to carve into the twisted appendages of the crippled well. The latest attempt involved using tools resembling an oversized deli slicer and garden shears to break away the broken riser pipe so engineers can then position a cap over the well's opening.
Even if it succeeds, it will temporarily increase the flow of an already massive leak by 20 percent -- at least 100,000 gallons more a day. And it is far from certain that BP will be able to cap a well that one expert compared to an out-of-control fire hydrant.
"It is an engineer's nightmare," said Ed Overton, a Louisiana State University professor of environmental sciences. "They're trying to fit a 21-inch cap over a 20-inch pipe a mile away. That's just horrendously hard to do. It's not like you and I standing on the ground pushing -- they're using little robots to do this."
The operation has never been performed in such deep water, and is similar to an earlier failed attempt that used a larger cap that quickly froze up. BP PLC officials said they were applying lessons learned from the earlier effort, and plan to pump warm water through pipes into the smaller dome to prevent any icing problems.
"If all goes as planned, within about 24 hours we could have this contained," BP's Doug Suttles said Tuesday after touring a temporary housing facility set up for cleanup workers in Grand Isle. "But we can't guarantee success."
Since the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded on April 20, killing 11 workers and eventually collapsing into the Gulf of Mexico, an estimated 20 million to 40 million gallons of oil has spewed, eclipsing the 11 million that leaked from the Exxon Valdez disaster.
Oil has fouled many fishing areas and miles of ecologically sensitive coastline. Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour said oil from the spill was found in his state for the first time, on a barrier island, and newly expanded federal restrictions mean that nearly a third of federal waters are closed to fishing.
President Barack Obama on Tuesday ordered the co-chairmen of an independent commission investigating the spill to thoroughly examine the disaster, "to follow the facts wherever they lead, without fear or favor." The commission is led by Bob Graham, a former Florida governor and U.S. senator, and William K. Reilly, a former head of the Environmental Protection Agency.
Holder said the laws under review for the criminal and civil probes include the Clean Water Act, the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and the Endangered Species Act. He said the government would pursue criminal charges "if warranted," a caveat he did not include for civil action.
"We will ensure that every cent, every cent of taxpayer money, will be repaid and that damage to the environment and wildlife will be reimbursed," he said.
Washington lawyer Stan Brand said that two likely criminal law theories the Justice Department would pursue are false statements to the Interior Department's Minerals Management Service and obstruction by failing to produce evidence to investigators.
But Brand and longtime Washington lawyer Stephen Ryan, a former federal prosecutor and ex-congressional investigator, predicted it will be difficult to prove criminality.
"Bad business judgment isn't a crime," said Ryan.
The Deepwater Horizon was owned by Transocean Ltd. and leased by BP PLC. Other companies involved include oil services company Halliburton, which handled the cementing of the well; and Cameron Inc., which made the blowout preventer that apparently failed.
Criminal charges have met with mixed results in two previous high-profile U.S. oil spills.
Joseph Hazelwood, captain of the Exxon Valdez supertanker that ran aground off Alaska's coast in 1989, was acquitted of being drunk when the accident occurred, but convicted of a misdemeanor for negligent oil discharge. He was fined $50,000 and ordered to perform 1,000 hours of community service.
Hong Kong-based Fleet Management Ltd. paid a $10 million fine after pleading to obstruction charges following a 2007 oil spill after one of the company's cargo ships struck the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. The ship's pilot pleaded guilty to misdemeanors and was sentenced to 10 months in prison.
The government would have a lower burden of proof in a civil case. In the Valdez spill, thousands of fishermen, cannery workers, landowners and Native Americans were initially awarded $5 billion in punitive damages, but the amount was eventually reduced to $507.5 million.
BP engineers began putting underwater robots and equipment in place this week after an attempt to plug the well by force-feeding it heavy mud and cement -- called a "top kill" -- was aborted over the weekend. Crews pumped thousands of gallons of the mud into the well but were unable to overcome the pressure of the oil.
The next plan has BP engineers placing a cap-like containment valve over the well. Not all the gushing oil will be captured through the "cut and cap" method, but the company said it could siphon most of the crude to a vessel on the surface.
Eric Smith, an associate director of the Tulane Energy Institute, likened the procedure to trying to place a tiny cap on a fire hydrant that's blowing straight up.
Crews have forged two different caps in case one of them doesn't work. Before it can place either one, the company plans to cut the riser in two different places, keeping it aloft with a crane so it doesn't collapse.
Gigantic shears will cleave off the far end of the riser while a diamond cutter, lowered on top of the blowout preventer early Tuesday, will try to make an even cut through the other end of the tube. A clean cut from the diamond cutter, which resembles a deli slicer, is important because engineers will then lower a heavy cap on top of the sheared-off tube to seal the leak.
BP's best chance to actually plug the leak rests with a pair of relief wells that likely won't be completed until August.
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If BP broke laws and this oil spill could have been avoided if BP had followed established rules for drilling in the Gulf...I hope those Americans who are suffering the loss of their livelihood due to this spill, know that the US Gov. is determined to make BP pay up.
Corporations/companies need to understand there is a price to be paid when they damage America's land and waters, regardless.
Last edited by mac; 06/02/10 07:02 AM.
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Quote:
If BP broke laws and this oil spill could have been avoided if BP had followed established rules for drilling in the Gulf...I hope those Americans who are suffering the loss of their livelihood due to this spill, know that the US Gov. is determined to make BP pay up.
Corporations/companies need to understand there is a price to be paid when they damage America's land and waters, regardless.
I'd be willing to bet that somewhere along the lines the Government will put a limit on liability for damages in law suits.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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know that the US Gov. is determined to make BP pay up.
Actions speak louder than words.
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I don't think anyone in thier right mind would say that BP isn't responsible for this mess.. To me it seems pretty clear..
Lots of stuff will come out with fingers pointing everywhere... but ultimately, I believe BP is responsible for managing thier vendors and monitoring all systems and processes involved..
Should they pay for everything? Being a BP Shareholder, I'd like to say no..but damn it, the real answer is yes. they should..
Should they filter the costs down to thier vendors such as halliburton,, that's really up to them, but if they can prove fault,,, I bet they will....
I just hope that for the people of the Gulf Coast States, this well gets plugged quickly so that they can begin the clean up process..
#GMSTRONG
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How does this spill compare historically? It's the worst ever ... right? Well ... not exactly .... I'm not going to post the whole articles .... but you can read for yourself. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36852827/ns/us_news-environment/http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/454782/the_worst_major_oil_spills_in_history.htmlThe estimate is that this well is leaking 5000 barrels per day. Source That's a lot of oil ... but a far cry from the estimated 1.3 million barrels that Saddam Hussein dumped into the Persian Gulf. Now, how did they clean up the majority of the oil? Why, they used tankers to suck the oil up from the surface of the water. Why aren't we using similar techniques? Do we have a better solution? No .... we're just going to have this continue to spill into hurricane season so it can become the biggest disaster ever. If we got a handle on the majority of the oil in this spill, we could then help nature along. isn't crude oil naturally present in the ocean waters already? Aren't there microbes that break down and digest crude oil naturally occuring in the ocean? While this is a tragedy for a lot of wildlife in the short term ....... won't, at least, some of the oil break down and evaporate over time? Maybe not right away ... and not in this quantity ..... but how about if we get the amount of crude floating on the surface down to a more environmentally manageable amount? This disaster is being driven by politics as much as any other factor. Frankly it disgusts me to see political games played with our environment by this administration like this. Mr President, why will you not do the one thing that has been proven to work? Why are you willing to play political games with our environment? Why Mr. President? Is your political agenda more important than the environment? Is you're being in charge more important that actually getting the oil cleaned up and protecting the environment?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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well, I sure hope BP gets the tankes with the vacuums in place in a hurry cause from everything I've read, it's one unholy ugly mess...
Unless of course you believe that it's the governments responsibility to clean it up....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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BP cannot do anything without GOVERNMENT approval.
The GOVERNMENT has run this operation from the word go.
This tanker idea is just one idea that hasn't even been given a moment's consideration by this administration, because they have refused help from all but 2 of the 2 dozen or so countries willing to help .
BP can suggest whatever it wants ..... but they can do NOTHING until the administration says OK. So .... how are we handling the leak and the spill itself right this minute? By doing NOTHING! That outta be pretty damn effective.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
How does this spill compare historically? It's the worst ever ... right?
Well ... not exactly ....
ytown...so BP capped the blowout?
...you say they didn't cap it yet...I see.
So, we have no way of knowing if BP's oil disaster could end up being the worst ever...right?
This leak could go on for a long, long time if BP continues to fail at every attempt to stop their leak.
Also, we know that BP fudged the amount of oil leaking from the very beginning because they had to pay a penalty on every barrel leaked...so BP lied about the amount pouring into the Gulf.
Might need to adjust the totals a bit to compensate for BPs lies concerning the amount leaking into the Gulf...
This "is" the worst oil spill in "our nations history" and could be the worst our world has ever seen, by the time BP manages to fix their mess.
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Quote:
ytown...so BP capped the blowout?
...you say they didn't cap it yet...I see.
So, we have no way of knowing if BP's oil disaster could end up being the worst ever...right?
So every spill is the worst ever until it is contained...because it could end up that way.
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My kitchen sink is dripping.. could replace Noah as the worst flood ever if I don't get it fixed. 
yebat' Putin
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Mac ... why does this administration refuse to do the 1 thing that would definitely help mitigate the damage from the oil spill? Why are they doing absolutely NOTHING right now while oil continues to pour into the Gulf? Why are they willing to play political games with the environment? Why mac? Why?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
How does this spill compare historically? It's the worst ever ... right?
Well ... not exactly ....
ytown...so BP capped the blowout?
...you say they didn't cap it yet...I see.
So, we have no way of knowing if BP's oil disaster could end up being the worst ever...right?
Once again, you see the pessimistic side of it. You must be miserable and hating life or something. You took words, and read them as you wanted to, or at least in a way that would allow you to quantify your trolling rants against everyone that doesn't see the world according to mac.
He never said it wasn't the worst spill. In fact, he qualified his statement with "not exactly" which means, pound for pound, event for event, gallon for gallon, it is not the worst. Does it have the ability to be the worst? yes, but it is not there YET.
Much like you read the BP statement about having spent 760 million on this spill as a figure of overall cost, rather than what it was as a cost up to. But then you never responded after that was pointed out and proved in the other thread.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Mac ... why does this administration refuse to do the 1 thing that would definitely help mitigate the damage from the oil spill? Why are they doing absolutely NOTHING right now while oil continues to pour into the Gulf? Why are they willing to play political games with the environment? Why mac? Why?
Oops - now you did it. You asked him a question. He won't be back until the conversation has moved on - might be days.
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barrel of oil dropped from around $85 to below $75 in the last month, thats a part of it, and I'd bet that is in part to the pinch Europe is feeling as well as China beginning to enter a recession.
Witht that rationale, I would have like to have seen it stay in the 2.30's.
As I correctly predicted it would happen sometime this week,...it shot up today -- 2.65.
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web page So to Speak Business of oil: How slick Thursday, June 3, 2010 02:57 AM By Joe Blundo I woke up the other day and realized I had undergone a metamorphosis. I had become a giant oil company. I had drilling rigs, refineries, barrel upon barrel of crude and an army of lobbyists. It was a little disconcerting at first, but I quickly got used to it. "Hey, honey, watch this," I said to my wife. I picked up the phone and barked into it: "Send over a congressman, a powerful one. I don't care what it costs." Two minutes later, I had some lawmaker or other on the doorstep. I put him on the fireplace mantel, with my collection of federal regulators from the Minerals Management Service. "I don't think he matches the sofa," my wife said. Awhile later, Halliburton and Transocean came over. They're my buddies. We had a few beers and played Risk: Oil Industry Edition. It's just like regular Risk except that, instead of conquering the world with cannons and soldiers, you use dollar signs and briefcases. After a while, we got bored and decided to go drill a well a mile under the ocean surface. At that point, my wife entered the room with a worried look on her face. "Are you sure that's a good idea?" she asked me. "You've only been a giant oil company for a few hours." "Oh, it's easy," Halliburton assured her. "First, let's grab some stuff out of your garage: shovels, a hose, flippers. Hey, do you have any duct tape?" My wife still wasn't convinced. "Don't you guys need to go through, like, some kind of laborious permitting process that takes years and ensures that all safeguards are in place to protect our nation's coastlines?" she asked. We all stopped, looked at one another and smiled. "You've obviously never heard of Jiffy Permit," I said. "All you have to do is show your driver's license and swear you respect the rights of dolphins. I'll run down and pick one up right now." Because I had to make a trip anyway, I told the guys I'd grab a blowout preventer, too. You can't be too careful. "Go to Larry's Flea Market and Used Offshore Drilling Equipment," Transocean said. "They got some good deals there. Oh, and pick up some golf balls, too - just in case." It turned out that drilling a well a mile deep in the ocean is a lot of work! Fortunately, we had no nitpicking federal oversight to slow us down and make the job even more complicated than it is. It was just drill, baby, drill. Boy, was I tired when I got back that night. My wife was standing on the front porch, looking a little steamed. "I saw the news," she said. "Oh, that. Now, don't worry. I'll clean it up. It's only a few thousand barrels a day. The liberal mainstream media is exaggerating the problem." "Exaggerating the problem? You're filling the Gulf of Mexico with petroleum! What about the marine life? What about the fishing industry? What about the marshes, wetlands, beaches? You act like it's your ocean." I looked over at the collection of officials on my mantel and winked. "In some ways, it is." Joe Blundo is a Dispatch columnist. jblundo@dispatch.com
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The Obama administration ran afoul of environmentalists Wednesday by approving a new oil well in the Gulf of Mexico, even as millions of gallons of oil continue to gush from BP's Deepwater Horizon rig and the British oil giant struggled with its latest effort to cap the well.
The new drilling permit, awarded to Bandon Oil and Gas, is the first granted by the Minerals Management Service since the BP rig exploded April 20, killing 11 people. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar extended a moratorium recently on deepwater drilling, such as that of the Deepwater Horizon, which was drilling about a mile beneath the water's surface when the rig exploded.
At the same time, however, the administration quietly allowed a ban on drilling in shallow water to expire. The Bandon Oil permit is for a site about 50 miles off the coast of Louisiana and 115 feet below the surface, which qualifies as a shallow drilling site.
Peter Galvin, conservation director of the Center for Biological Diversity, said his organization was outraged by the decision to grant the permit.
"We're very upset by it," Mr. Galvin said. "There have been a lot of terrible, terrible disasters in shallow water. Shallow-water drilling has many of the same risks as deepwater drilling."
Mr. Galvin called on the administration to reinstate its moratorium on shallow-water drilling, and blamed political considerations for Wednesday's decision to grant the permit.
"It's obviously a political calculation, to be seen as responding to the disaster, but not upsetting the apple cart with industry," Mr. Galvin said. "We see it as a really disingenuous act."
Interior Department spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff released a statement Wednesday noting that the administration had increased safety standards for shallow-water drilling.
"All operators who are drilling or intend to drill in shallow water must first meet applicable interim safety standards announced last week by the president," Ms. Barkoff said. "Those operators who are already drilling must stop at a safe place and implement the safety requirements before continuing. A formal Notice to Lessees will be issued shortly that outlines the required actions."
Meanwhile Wednesday, BP ran into more trouble in its bid to contain the Deepwater Horizon leak as the diamond-tipped saw that was supposed to shear off the well pipe got stuck.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/2/greens-seeing-red-over-new-gulf-oil-permit/
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I have no problem with that. An accident with one is no reason to stop drilling or seeking new oil.
But these damned government workers better have their heads on a swivel and be enforcing the regulations they have been hired to enforce.
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I wouldn't let this stop drilling either, but I think they should have spent a little time ensuring the correct safety, regulation, and other procedures are corrected and working before they start handing out permits again.
And in the idea of public perception, it probably isn't smart to hand out drilling permits while the Gulf is filling up with oil. Many people don't understand the complexity difference of a well at 5000 ft and one at 115ft.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 'Top kill' fails to stop flow of
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