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After reading todays morning take on the AFC North Blog one has to wonder... Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer believes the Browns are a .500 team.
Morning take: If the Browns finish .500, the AFC North might be the best division in football in 2010.
The afformentioned Mary Kay article can be found here and it's mentioned that;
Quote:
Plain Dealer Browns reporter Mary Kay Cabot, who says she thinks even though the team's restricted free agents have signed, there are still some unresolved issues for some. Also, she says the Browns look like a .500 team after minicamp last week; and that she doesn't think it's important that the Browns name Jake Delhomme the starter at this point of the summer.
Of the main points raised here I have to say. It's hard NOT to take optimism out of a mini-camp but it's also paramount that we don't establish expectations from a mini-camp either. These are activities to get new players a 'head first start' into the system and also help just get players up to snuff as far as being in game shape is concerned. No tackling, really I'd argue players are just kind of going through the motions. It's hard NOT to look good when everyone is just going par for the course.
I also disagree that I think we DO need to name Jake as our official starter. He's been un-officially labeled in that role by both his actions and how Mangini and Holmgren have spoken of the impact he's had upon joining the team. Nowhere near that kind of buzz has been given toward Seneca Wallace but you never know, he could light it up in the pre-season. If we haven't named a starter by the pre-season I will be pissed off. I am done with the QB Drama.
I think we COULD be a .500 team, maybe even better if the right players come in and perform at a better-than-expected level. We would need players like MoMass and Robo to step up and be LEADERS on the offense. We would need players like Evan Moore to step up and embrace the responsibilities of being a complete NFL TE, not just a pass-catching 'specialist'. We would need either James Davis or Hardesty to break out to compliment Jerome Harrison on our running attack.
Likewise, we would need SOMEONE to step up and be a stable force in our Safety squad. Most likely one of the rookies; Ward or Asante. I think none of us are convinced Elam is suddenly going to learn how to become a solid cover guy and Adams is a vet who can help us in a pinch but I'm not sure I want him at safety starting for the year.
7-9 feels reasonable for me and as I've said time and again, anything over 10 losses would be a disappointing year, for real. It's time that Cleveland started moving FORWARD rather than stagnating at the level we've been at for the past 10 years.
What do you guys think and similarly, where are your expectations/hopes for the season based on what's been presented so far. It's still early and the outlook could certainly change with the training camp and pre-season but as of right now, do we look like a .500 team?
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I'm thinking, as of right now, that 7-9 wins is the number I'd use. Is that non-specific enough? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'll believe it when I see it. These raised expectations just lead to a crash later. All I'm looking for this year is solid football, progress with the offense and defense, and hopefully a few wins along the way.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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8-8 would be awesome with a first-year new FO, a new QB, and nothing to have built on from last year.
Too many unknowns to tell.
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Eh, I doubt it. The talent on this team is really spotty in areas, and depth is below average in a lot of areas.
Maybe next year, but this year? I seriously doubt it.
you had a good run Hank.
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A .500 season after yet another regime change is here? We bring in an aging QB whose own team wanted nothing to do w/ him and a backup QB that is nothing more than a wildcat threat. The QB is where the offense starts and ours are not good at all.
I think she's been drinking some new Browns kool aid @ camp.
Produce a somewhat competitive professional team and that will be a step in the right direction. But .500 w/ our division is really a stretch.
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Quote:
I'll believe it when I see it. These raised expectations just lead to a crash later. All I'm looking for this year is solid football, progress with the offense and defense, and hopefully a few wins along the way.
That's more of the boat I'm in. I want to see some progress on both sides of the ball that suggests our team is improving. Even if we have a 6-10 season, if the team is playing solid on both sides of the ball and we can see key improvement in the young players who will be the future core of this team.
I'm okay with our 'over the hill' QB and our 'wildcat-only threat' selection as long as they can hit the WR accurately that's fine compared to last year with Mr. Overthrow and Mr. Underthrow (you can decide which was which really) let our young RB's set the tone for the offense while the young WR's build confidence and continue to establish themselves on the team.
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We will win the games we are "supposed" to win - however THAT is defined...and we will "steal" 2-3 games that we were not expected to win...and win one game we were "sure" to lose. So...? 7-9 or 8-8 That first paragraph is the definition of a team that is getting it together for a nice long run. 
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Quote:
8-8 would be awesome with a first-year new FO, a new QB, and nothing to have built on from last year.
Too many unknowns to tell.
Are you the same guy are are you Joice posting on hubby's computer?? 
Nothing to build on?? You're kidding, right??
I would say 4 wins to close the season is something to build on.
I would say a rejuvenated running game is something to build on.
I would say MoMass had a nice year and is something to build on.
Rubin showed he is a man in the middle, that we don't need to count on Rogers....that's something to build on.
Several more of our young players got valuable experience and showed signs of making a big step.....Mack, Moore, Bernard are a few to mention.
I don't know where we will end up, but we certainly aren't void of things to build on.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
8-8 would be awesome with a first-year new FO, a new QB, and nothing to have built on from last year.
Too many unknowns to tell.
This seems like something we say every single year since our return.....
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Quote:
This seems like something we say every single year since our return.....
That's exactly the point.
Until the Browns prove otherwise, we are in a constant state of trying to find an identity and something that resembles a real team.
The fact that the team is constantly being changed every few years says enough. That constant changing has proven to be a losing formula.
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who are these 8 teams we're supposed to beat?
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Quote:
Quote:
8-8 would be awesome with a first-year new FO, a new QB, and nothing to have built on from last year.
Too many unknowns to tell.
Are you the same guy are are you Joice posting on hubby's computer??
Nothing to build on?? You're kidding, right??
I would say 4 wins to close the season is something to build on.
I would say a rejuvenated running game is something to build on.
I would say MoMass had a nice year and is something to build on.
Rubin showed he is a man in the middle, that we don't need to count on Rogers....that's something to build on.
Several more of our young players got valuable experience and showed signs of making a big step.....Mack, Moore, Bernard are a few to mention.
I don't know where we will end up, but we certainly aren't void of things to build on.
You forgot to mention we were 8th in the league in sacks, after years of abysmal sack production. Oh, and um, yeah, WE BEAT PUKESBURG!!!!
Also, you can not discount the work that Mangini has put into improving this team in terms of type of player, expectations, attitude and preparation. There is a hell of a lot going on there that he is not getting credit for. Like him or not, the man is doing a damn fine job, and he has the TEAM playing his type of football.
Like you said, plenty to build on. I'd be happy with a 7-9 season and would be ecstatic with 8-8 or 9-7. Poop my pants ecstatic.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
who are these 8 teams we're supposed to beat?
Tampa Bay
Kansas City
Jacksonville
Buffalo
Miami
Pittsburgh Twice
Cincinnati Once
That's 8. It won't work out that way, it never does.. if we get to 8 wins we will lose a couple of these and win a couple that it looks today like we probably shouldn't win... 8-8 is highly optimisitic but not totally impossible.
The thing we have this year is a couple games we can win early in the season to get some momentum instead of having the front loaded schedule we had last year...
yebat' Putin
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We are undefeated right now and I'm sure we're going to stay that way! Until we lose that is... To much youth on this team to go over 8-8 IMHO, 4-6 wins is more likely... BUT anything can happen on Sundays!
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Also I think that being away for the opener MIGHT break that first game losing streak we have going...
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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I think being away for the first game could be beneficial as well.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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I'd love .500 this year.. I would look upon that as a big step towards the ultimate goal,,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Also, you can not discount the work that Mangini has put into improving this team in terms of type of player, expectations, attitude and preparation. There is a hell of a lot going on there that he is not getting credit for. Like him or not, the man is doing a damn fine job, and he has the TEAM playing his type of football.
Off the tip of my tongue. I agree completely.
I saw a competitive team at the end of last year. Imo that validated his direction even without winning the last 4.
MoMass did have a great year. The kid took it up the middle and was the blocker he was said to be. There is no doubt that our receiving corps has it's limits, but putting the ball in their hands in stride could do wonders.
We got the best corner in the draft this year and added toughness. Whether others pan out remains to be seen, but I expect to see continued competitiveness.
7-9 would be awesome and my kool-aid flavor is only grape this year. Maybe my favorite cherry is on tap after that. Dunno, but do we have any choice? I love my Browns. 
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Looking at the squad going into TC this year as compared to last it's hard to believe we won't be much better. Not only does it appear that there is much more talent on the field, but Mangini and Holmgrem seem to have the right attitude and disciplined instilled to this team in the likes that we haven't seen in a long while. We've come a long way in a short period of time,remembering the total mess that RAC left behind just one year ago makes me cringe.
Looking at the schedule I see a 7-9 season with only 2 wins coming from our division,both from Pittsburgh. I have no problem with the more pessimistic outlook by some on this board either,it's taking the safe road,and for long time browns sufferers, I understand.
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Are the Browns a .500 team?
well, right now we have as many wins as we do losses, which usually means .500. unfortunately for us, when you divide 0 by anything, you get 0; so the Browns are a .000 team right now.
(someone had to do it)
anyways, we won 5 games last year. while we changed "regimes," we kept the coaches and more players than we had in previous regime changes. this makes me optimistic that we can build off of last year more than in a typical regime change.
building off that means winning more games. if Jake returns to his prime numbers (doubtful), then 10 wins isn't out of the question. if Jake is as dreadful as last year (doubtful, but more possible), then 4 wins might be the ceiling. So, if he is somewhere in the middle (likely), then whether we win 6 or 8 might fall on the shoulders of our defense (and our incredibly young secondary).
#gmstrong
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The Cleveland Browns will win the superbowl this year. I am convinced and very happy about it. I think anyone who disagrees w/e me isn't worth a ham sandwich. 
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Quote:
Are the Browns a .500 team?
well, right now we have as many wins as we do losses, which usually means .500. unfortunately for us, when you divide 0 by anything, you get 0; so the Browns are a .000 team right now.
(someone had to do it)
This is true. But if you divide anything by zero, including zero, you get an error. So you could also say we're error right now, which might be more accurate than zero.
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For the Browns to be a .500 team,they will career years out alot of players.
They will need players to make very large strides in year 2.
the reason why the Browns are in the shape they are in.....they have nothing to really show for out of recent drafts....
the rest of the AFC North teams are already having some of their recent drafts pay off divends..yet the Browns are supposed to win 3 games in the division....
I don't see it......the Browns will be overmatched at QB in every AFC North game.
They will be facing 3 top level defenses.
The Browns young secondary will get torched early and often.......
Role players fill out the LB corps.......
This team just doesn't have the talent yet to get out of the cellar.....
maybe 2-6 in the North and 3-5 outside....thats 5-11.
4-12 is more sensable.
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Quote:
For the Browns to be a .500 team,they will career years out alot of players.
They will need players to make very large strides in year 2.
No they won't... we had 5 wins last season with a horrible team most of the year..
A few less INT's by the QB, a couple more INT's by the DB's, A couple more passes defensed here and there and a few less passes dropped or thrown off target and we could have picked up three more wins.
We lost the Titans game by 6 points
We lost the Bears game by 3 points
We lost the Bengals game by 3 points
We lost the Lions game by 1 points
Essentially, we lost 4 games last year by a total of 13 points...
We only won one game by a small margin,,, Buffalo by 3 points..
I think with a little luck, that could have been 8 wins last year..
On paper (big caviat) we appear better than last year.. To my untrained eye anyway.
JMO however.
Quote:
the reason why the Browns are in the shape they are in.....they have nothing to really show for out of recent drafts....
Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Mo Mass (I thought he did a pretty good job for not having partiularly good QB play and nobody on the other side to draw attention), Jerrome Harrison, Vickers, Wright.
Obviously it's entirely to early to grade the players we drafted this year, but I have to believe that one of the two Safeties we drafted will work out fine, same with Haden and Hardesty. (all guess work of course)
As for your predictions,, hell, for all I know, you could be right.. but honestly, I think we will get to .500 and I"ll consder that an improvement and movemebnt in the right direction.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
8-8 would be awesome with a first-year new FO, a new QB, and nothing to have built on from last year.
Too many unknowns to tell.
Are you the same guy are are you Joice posting on hubby's computer??
Nothing to build on?? You're kidding, right??
I would say 4 wins to close the season is something to build on.
I would say a rejuvenated running game is something to build on.
I would say MoMass had a nice year and is something to build on.
Rubin showed he is a man in the middle, that we don't need to count on Rogers....that's something to build on.
Several more of our young players got valuable experience and showed signs of making a big step.....Mack, Moore, Bernard are a few to mention.
I don't know where we will end up, but we certainly aren't void of things to build on.
You give my husband too much credit,...
No, I'm not my wife,.... 
Good points all, but still all unknowns. Now if you want to take them as stepping stones, fine. That was last year. I'll hold my breath here, but I'm not gonna last another 46 years.
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LOL are you really Capt Franks wife? Quote:
Good points all, but still all unknowns. Now if you want to take them as stepping stones, fine. That was last year. I'll hold my breath here, but I'm not gonna last another 46 years.
oh yea,, of course.. all unknowns.. all I can do at this point is look at few facts,,, and then see if they relate to the new year. Not very scientific at all,,
I won't last another 46 years either 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Who's Captain Frank ? 
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Quote:
What do you guys think and similarly, where are your expectations/hopes for the season based on what's been presented so far. It's still early and the outlook could certainly change with the training camp and pre-season but as of right now, do we look like a .500 team?
Well, if either Jake or Seneca give us better QB play, that alone may be worth a couple of wins (all other things remaining equal). So, yeah, we COULD get to .500. Lots of "ifs" need to end up in the "yes" column by the end of the season for us to get there, however.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Legend
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Great Googly boogly,, I responded to the wrong thing... Please ignore.. everyone else does
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ham sandwich ( I know different poster (maybe)) but Frank and Joe are peas in a pod. .
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I think if you look at the Browns 4 drafts,they have had more outs than hits...
2009.....Mack is the real deal.
Massaquoi shows promise
Robiskie needs to catch 40-60 passes to validate his taking RD 2 when better players were available.
Veinkune is overwhelmed in his position change.
Francis may not make the team
2008 Nothing to show....Attuya Rubin is about it.......poor poor draft 1 of 5
2007 Joe Thomas and Eric Wright......A All-Pro and a up and down CB....
They missed on Brady Quinn....which haunts this team. 2 of 7
2006 This is the killer......10 picks and what does this franchise have to show for it.
A dime a dozen LB named D'qwell Jackson.....who fits a 4-3 scheme better.
Wimbley..bust.....Travis Wilson...bust....Leon Williams.....bust......Issac Sowells..trying to make the Bengals.
1 of 10..
2005 A complete diaster......0 of 8..
so if you tally up the numbers from 2008 and back.......4 picks out of 30 have made impacts.....well 5..if you count Vickers..but the FB is a dying position.....this team would still lose without Vickers.
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Great Googly boogly,, I responded to the wrong thing... Please ignore.. everyone else does
I've noticed the "Edit" post function sometimes disappears right before ya' wanna use it,....
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Quote:
I think if you look at the Browns 4 drafts,they have had more outs than hits...
Who cares about the guys that didn't make it.. every team has that. I only concern myself with those that make it and perform.
I've named those...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Essentially, we lost 4 games last year by a total of 13 points.
should have had the lions game (thanks hank), but the rest didn't really seem that close. 13 felt more like 50.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think if you look at the Browns 4 drafts,they have had more outs than hits...
Who cares about the guys that didn't make it.. every team has that. I only concern myself with those that make it and perform.
I've named those...
I care. The fact the previous regimes missed on so many picks is the reason this team is where it is now.
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Everyone's going to post the optimistic view for the most part.
If you look at the flip side to balance things you'd see:
1. A new QB who was awful in 2009 that is now playing for an offense that is worse as a whole from the offense he's coming from.
2. One of the youngest and least skilled WR units in the recent history of the league.
3. One of the oldest and slowest DLs in the league
4. A LB corp without dynamic playmakers
5. Probably the worst group of safeties in the league.
Add to that a lack of team speed overall and many new moving parts in the front office and there's a good chance we could have a Top 5 draft pick next year.
Every team we play this year expects to win. We were a 1-11 team that beat 4 teams to end the season in dubious weather that did not make the playoffs last year.
Another 5 win season is probable.
--------------------------
With all that said who knows! We could surprise, we could have a dominant running game, we could get great play from our corners, we should be one of the best special teams teams in the league and our QB could return to form.
I can see anywhere from 10 wins to 2 wins.
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but I'm not gonna last another 46 years.
hey...I've lost 60 lbs, walk 25-30 miles a week and am pushing close to 200 push-up's a day(170 today)....really.....but I won't last that long either my friend....20-25 might be a good number....God willing.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249
Practice Squad
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OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249 |
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I think if you look at the Browns 4 drafts,they have had more outs than hits...
Who cares about the guys that didn't make it.. every team has that. I only concern myself with those that make it and perform.
I've named those...
I care. The fact the previous regimes missed on so many picks is the reason this team is where it is now.
Bingo.
Porous drafting with comparable play on the FA market is the main reason we are where we.
It will be tough to judge if we're moving in the right direction for a couple years, provided we don't revolt against the Holmgren regime (did he outlaw that term too?) and institute yet another new era into Cleveland... but that's thinking way too far ahead.
I hope that the moves we made will show improvement in the areas that we were weakest in last year, mostly our Secondary and QB. Our secondary cost us more than a couple of the losses we incurred and with Sheldon Brown alone we should see improvement.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Are The Browns A .500 Team?
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