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yeah but how many teams have drafted as bad as the Browns over the last 4-5 years?Maybe the Lions.
I'm sorry but when average 1 player per draft in a 5 year timespan making the roster,what you is unacceptable....and out of those players,how many end up being difference makers......
I'm not talking All-Pros in general ...but difference makers....
6 out of 30 doesn't produce a winner.
Thats the truth.
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Quote:
Quote:
but I'm not gonna last another 46 years.
hey...I've lost 60 lbs, walk 25-30 miles a week and am pushing close to 200 push-up's a day(170 today)....really.....but I won't last that long either my friend....20-25 might be a good number....God willing.
Couple of different veins (npi) here,...I feel like I'm in good shape. I still play softball with 30-35 year olds. But I'm 55 and the chances of lasting 46 more are pretty slim. And (2),...even if I did, I hope not to have to wait around for this town to become an NFL winner for 46 more.
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Well said.
Honestly, I expect to be picking in the top 10 next April, but I wouldn't be shocked if we had the first pick. I also wouldn't be shocked if we were in the middle, but I doubt we go 8-8.
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Anything from 6-8 wins is my best estimate for 2010.
Better 'D', especially as the season wears on, hopefully some better QB play and a running game that builds off the success at the end of 2009.
On paper right now, that's what we could realistically hope for.
Unrealistically (what better time to be unrealistic than in June?), there's always a side of me that thinks "we can surprise, you never know what can happen in sports so this could be our year."
Orange-and-brown glasses, I know... blahblahblah.
Maybe we get some breaks in tight games, and our defence comes together thanks to the upgrades, even though our young ones in the secondary will need time to develop.
But say that happens and maybe we go 4-2 in our division, maybe we scrape and claw our way to nine or 10 wins - at minimum, it would be nice to get into December with a shot at the playoffs.
All you need to do is hit the playoffs on a roll, like the Giants in 2007 or the Cardinals of 2008.
Why not us?
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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yeah but how many teams have drafted as bad as the Browns over the last 4-5 years?Maybe the Lions.
I'm sorry but when average 1 player per draft in a 5 year timespan making the roster,what you is unacceptable....and out of those players,how many end up being difference makers......
I'm not talking All-Pros in general ...but difference makers....
6 out of 30 doesn't produce a winner.
Thats the truth.
Once again, it just doesn't matter,, we are here now.. I can deal with those on the team.. that's it. Each team has failures.. do you think that Pats worry about a failed pick.. Hell No they don't. they move on..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Inept regimes is how the Browns got in this position as of now. As for the Patroits, they've gotten more out of any one draft than the Browns got out of the last 5 years combined.
As far as the Browns being the "why not us" team of 2010, if Mikey Boy and Heckert thought the Browns were close to being that team,they would have acquired McNabb instead of Delhomme.....
They know this is a rebuilding year,not a playoff contending year.
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Yesterdays news... I could care less at this point.., beating a dead horse about yesterday doesn't matter at all when you are talking about today and going forward.. what difference does it make what other regimes did at this point... NONE... We can only concern ourselves with the here and now and building for tomorrow.. Can't change the past..
The question was, Are the Browns a .500 team.. and I think they are..
What do you think?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Inept regimes is how the Browns got in this position as of now. As for the Patroits, they've gotten more out of any one draft than the Browns got out of the last 5 years combined.
As far as the Browns being the "why not us" team of 2010, if Mikey Boy and Heckert thought the Browns were close to being that team,they would have acquired McNabb instead of Delhomme.....
They know this is a rebuilding year,not a playoff contending year.
Based on this, I assume your answer would be "no."
The regimes of the past certainly put us where we are today, there's no doubt about that. But with Holmgren and company, this is a new era with new expectations and for the first time a truly new mindset. I think things will legitimately be different this time around.
As with every NFL season, teams emerge as surprises and teams that were expected to thrive find themselves struggling to win games. It's the 'motion in the ocean' of the NFL landscape, for lack of a better term.
McNabb wants to win, he doesn't want to play mentor on a franchise trying to find its identity. That is why Delhomme is such a good fit because he is a QB trying to re-establish his own identity and redeem past failures of his own. (kind of like The Browns...) I don't know if he will light it up and I certainly expect that he will throw his share of picks (If he throws 15-20 picks starting the whole season, I won't be surprised)
I don't think 8-8 is out of the question, but in our tough division (possibly the strongest in the entire NFL) it will be difficult to reach that goal. Possible, but difficult.
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I think to an extent he's right about the past years of drafting putting us in a hole and actually do have effect on the now. I mean there's not a standard collection of talent from our past drafts or free agency to say with any degree of confidence that this is a .500 team. Just because we changed regimes this off-season doesn't mean the past failure of talent acquisition is a total non-factor, because that's quite real. We don't really have known, sure-fire play makers, a franchise QB (we have an admittedly risky one despite liking my Homme), a solid right side of the line, defensive line depth, solidified WR corps, etc. Yeah .500 is possible but possible sure as hell isn't synonymous with probable.
We're going to be improved, but the expectations should be tempered. Collectively there's just not enough talent yet for us to be in serious discussions of making the playoffs or having a legitimate shot at being a .500 ball club. Anything else is seeing through brown and orange glasses.
Don't just call me pessimist. Try and read between the lines.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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This year I am going for "being competitive".
Lat year was a disaster for the first 12 games. The Browns were not even close to winning.
It was ugly, real ugly, a big stinking pile of poo ugly.
I want to see them in games, competitive and not overmatched.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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What do you think?
It's a brutal schedule, if they don't win the first two games Mangini might as well start packing up the office. It will be a 3 or 4 win season.
If they do win the first two games as they should, then I could see a possible run at .500. But I'm only expecting 6 to 7 wins at the most.
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Don't just call me pessimist. Try and read between the lines.
Well to your defense, there aren't a ton of Brown's fan's who are eternal optimists haha. Most of them can be found here on DawgTalkers 
Last edited by Enigmatic Evil; 06/19/10 05:49 PM.
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Im gonna go with 7 wins, 8 is not out of the question. We started to build some momentum in Cincy last year, and carried that through the rest of the season.
Im old enough (29) to realize, it doesnt matter who we signed/who we didnt sign in the offseason, show me reults then ill believe it.
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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I think to an extent he's right about the past years of drafting putting us in a hole
I never said he wasn't right about past drafts putting us in the hole.. I'm merely saying that it's a waste of time to worry about it.. we are where we are.. gotta go from here..
I think we could be a 500 team,, do you?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This team is not a .500 team until we get a QB and a defense which at this time we have neither.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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I could care less about a QB, trent dilfer, jeff hostetler and jim McMahon won titles with exellent D and a good running game . . .
actually you can say that about big ben and brady thier first time around too . . .
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Quote:
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I think to an extent he's right about the past years of drafting putting us in a hole
I never said he wasn't right about past drafts putting us in the hole.. I'm merely saying that it's a waste of time to worry about it.. we are where we are.. gotta go from here..
I think we could be a 500 team,, do you?
Okay, I gotcha. I'm of the same mindset as far as moving on from the past.
I think we can be a .500 team, like I said it just doesn't seem realistic. A lot of things would have to go our way. In 2007 the football gods delivered a schedule that made us almost look like a cast of world-beaters. I don't see it with this schedule on paper. Yes, we improved from what was an atrocious first 3/4 of a season on a four game win streak with our running game and defense really stepping up, but against the squads we'lll be seeing, I see a 7 win season as our most realistic best case scenario. I'm not discounting it from happening. Stranger things have happened and I really like the way we're starting to look on paper and through the depth chart. It's just that .500 connotes to me we're close and serious when we know well that's not the case. I'd love to be proved wrong, however. 
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Anything is possible,,, 10 wins is possible.. 1 win is possible as well. I just happen to believe that Delhomme isn't the lost cause that many think he is.. I also don't think he'll be as effective as he was at his peak. All I want out of him is to be at least mediocre.. average so to speak.. That would be an improvement over last season when we won 5 games.
Average play out of our QB,, a running game that's at least as efficient as the end of last season, and a defense that is more stout against the run is all it will take to win 8 games.. Of course, that's JMO,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Even at his "peak" Delhomme was good for 2 turnovers a game by himself.....and now we are to expect an average performance out of him when coming to a more inferior squad talent-wise???
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Even at his "peak" Delhomme was good for 2 turnovers a game by himself.....and now we are to expect an average performance out of him when coming to a more inferior squad talent-wise???
Actually you are way off.. 2 turnovers a game would be at least 32 a season,, Delhomme has never had a 32 INT/fumble year.. in fact, in 10 years, he's averaging 9.4 INT's per season.. As for fumbles, he's had 42 in 10 years... adding the two, it's 13.6 turnovers per season. a far cry from 32 a season you present. His worst was 26 turnovers in a season.. one year,, that's it,,,
In contrast, Brett Favre averaged 18 INT's per season..
My answer is yes,, I expect an Average year.. 9.4 INTs.. 2000 yards passing, 60% completions, 12 to 15 TD passes, 5 fumbles, and a passer rating in the 80's. (that would be 14,4 turnovers)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=1693
As sad as this sounds, that would be an improvement over last season.. where we had 2255 yards, 49.4% Completions, 18 INT's, 11 Passing TD's, 55% passer rating.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2009.htm
Where did you get 2 turnovers per game at his peak? I'm not seeing it in his stats. Like I said, he had a bad year and had 26..
His highest INT rate was last season with 18 INT's.. Granted that was only 11 games,, but that certainly wasn't him at his peak.. his highest INT rate during his "PEAK" years is 16 INT's and 10 fumbles.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI, I had to adjust my numbers because I got distracted and forgot to add in the fumbles as a turnover... sorry bout that..
Still, the facts don't play out to 2 turnovers a game..
Last edited by Damanshot; 06/20/10 07:54 AM.
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I think we COULD be a .500 team, maybe even better if...
What do you guys think and similarly, where are your expectations/hopes for the season based on what's been presented so far.
jc..
Every season, I see Browns fans go through this exercise of "expectations"..most of which are unfulfilled because they were unrealistic.
The reality is...the Browns will be, what the Browns will be..
...nothing more..nothing less.
If you want to "guess", before even seeing the team play, fine, go for it.
How many times have we seen the anger from Browns fans and the media when the team does not meet our expectations?...and the anger just grows as the season progresses.
I have said it before...when teams make "changes"...changes in coaches, players, playbook, etc... the likelihood of success is reduced until the changed elements have the needed time to gel.
Though the coaching staff returns, changes have been made with the addition of Holmgren and those people he brought in to help/assist Mangini and his coaching staff. Again, the Browns have made many changes in player personnel and it will take time before they come together as a team.
I prefer to view the Browns "in reality"...we are a 0-0 team as of this moment...and I have no expectations...this season, my Browns will be, what they will be, nothing more, nothing less.
I refuse to get caught up in the expectations issue, preferring to have a "show me" approach to this season...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Something to muse over: Quote:
By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff writer
Posted Jun 19, 2010 @ 05:46 PM
It’s the wish of every Browns fan: Please let this be the year. Let it be the year the orange helmets finally take their turn as that surprise team — the one that goes from 5-11 or worse and slaps up a season of 10-6 or better.
There’s even a wildest dream: Please let the Browns be the 2001 Patriots.
We have said more than once — some version of the vision comes true every year in the NFL. But does it really?
Almost always.
Let’s take a peek at the decade that just wrapped up with the Browns failing to do better than 5-11 for the sixth time in 10 years.
2009
The Bengals got their quarterback back and won the AFC North. In 2008, they were 4-11-1.
Browns application Carson Palmer, who previously took the Bengals to the postseason just once in four years, was coming off a bad injury. Jake Delhomme, who quarterbacked three Carolina playoff teams in the last six years, is coming off a bad year.
2008
The Falcons woke up from their Michael Vick hangover and won a wild-card spot at 11-5 with rookie QB Matt Ryan. In 2007, they were 4-12.
Browns application Being a rookie, Ryan was treated gingerly. The Falcons protected him with the running platoon of a newcomer, Michael Turner and Jerious Norwood. The Browns think their new guy, Montario Hardesty, can work with Jerome Harrison to make life easier for Delhomme.
2007
Jon Gruden’s honeymoon was back on for a minute when Jeff Garcia had a surprise year for a Tampa Bay team that won the NFC South. The Bucs were 4-12 in 2006.
Browns application Garcia had a bounce-back season at age 37, five years after he last led a team to the playoffs. Delhomme needs to recover from a bad season, but he is only 35, and he had Carolina at 12-4 two years ago.
2006
New quarterback Drew Brees arrived and steered New Orleans to an AFC South title. With Aaron Brooks and Todd Bouman splitting the job in 2005, the Saints were 3-13.
Browns application Most would agree Delhomme is no Drew Brees, but he did beat Brees, 21-18 and 31-21, in the 2006 season. Most would agree Delhomme is an upgrade over the Brady Quinn-Derek Anderson tag team.
2005
Chicago won the NFC North with rookie fourth-round pick Kyle Orton starting 15 games and posting a miserable 59.7 passer rating. The Bears were 5-11 in 2004.
Browns application If the defense comes around, it can offset trouble at quarterback.
2004
Brees bounced back from the worst year of his career, leading San Diego to a 12-4 record. In 2003, Brees posted a 67.5 passer rating — Quinn’s was 67.2 in 2009 — and the Chargers went 4-12.
Browns application Good quarterbacks have been known to come back from rotten years, which is what Delhomme is attempting to do.
2003
Behind 24-year-old QB Quincy Carter, who started every game, the Cowboys went 10-6 and won a wild-card spot. The Cowboys were 5-11 in 2002.
Browns application Dallas boasted a new, credible football authority, Bill Parcells, leading the way in 2003. Mike Holmgren isn’t coaching, as Parcells did, but you get the picture. Carter posted a 71.4 rating in ’03 and made only three NFL starts thereafter. Yet the Cowboys went to the playoffs with him.
2002
No team went from 5-11 or worse and made the playoffs. The biggest turnaround was made by Carolina, which went from 1-15 in 2001 to 7-9 in ’02.
Browns application If the Browns improve by six wins, as Carolina did in this case, they would be 11-5.
2001
Presumed doomed when 2000 Round 6 pick Tom Brady had to replace Drew Bledsoe at quarterback, New England won the Super Bowl. In 2000, the Patriots were 5-11, losing to a Cleveland team that finished 2-14.
Browns application Browns Head Coach Eric Mangini and coordinators Rob Ryan, Brian Daboll and Brad Seely all worked for the Patriots in 2000 and 2001. Brady wasn’t a superstar yet, passing for a modest 2,843 yards in 15 games — Tim Couch gave the Browns 3,040 passing yards that year. It wasn’t about the quarterback.
2000
Behind 24-year-old Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia went 11-5 and won a first-round playoff game. In 1999, when McNabb started six games as a rookie, the Eagles went 5-11.
Browns application Andy Reid inherited a 3-13 team when he took over in 1999 and pulled things together in Year 2. That’s what Mangini, who inherited a 4-12 team in 2008, is trying to do.
Summing up the decade
The examples detailed above show nine different teams making the playoffs after a year of 5-11 or worse.
For what it’s worth, we do hear the Browns talking amongst themselves ...
“Why not us?”
gmstrong -----------------
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The reality is...the Browns will be, what the Browns will be..
Whew, thanks for clearing that up for us.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Anything can happen.. isn't it wonderful
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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His highest INT rate was last season with 18 INT's.. Granted that was only 11 games,, but that certainly wasn't him at his peak.. his highest INT rate during his "PEAK" years is 16 INT's and 10 fumbles.
I was going off of memory of him being a fumbler at times......NFL.COM says your numbers are wrong too.
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My answer is yes,, I expect an Average year.. 9.4 INTs.. 2000 yards passing, 60% completions, 12 to 15 TD passes, 5 fumbles, and a passer rating in the 80's. (that would be 14,4 turnovers)
Not that it matters, but those numbers won't get his rating up into the 80's unless he is limited to around 300 throws......the QB rating is one of the most useless numbers out there, it isn't even a true statistic.
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His highest INT rate was last season with 18 INT's.. Granted that was only 11 games,, but that certainly wasn't him at his peak.. his highest INT rate during his "PEAK" years is 16 INT's and 10 fumbles.
I was going off of memory of him being a fumbler at times......NFL.COM says your numbers are wrong too.
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My answer is yes,, I expect an Average year.. 9.4 INTs.. 2000 yards passing, 60% completions, 12 to 15 TD passes, 5 fumbles, and a passer rating in the 80's. (that would be 14,4 turnovers)
Not that it matters, but those numbers won't get his rating up into the 80's unless he is limited to around 300 throws......the QB rating is one of the most useless numbers out there, it isn't even a true statistic.
ESPN said 42 Fumbles in his career, NFL.com says 58.. Otherwise, the numbers are pretty much the same..
Not sure if ESPN or NFL,com is correct,, I'll put my money on NFL.com. So in that case, we are talking about 15.2 turnovers a year as an average as opposed to 14.4. Not a significant difference really. Less than one turnover per year....
In either case, still less than half of 32 turnovers a year you thought. So, now that that isn't the case anymore, do you still feel he's not capable of being average?
You may be right about certain stats being useless.. Don't know.. not sure why they would bother to keep official numbers on stats that aren't real stats, but I'll take your word for it.
As far as not reaching 80% unless he only has 300 passes.. I'm ok with that.. as long as it produces wins or at the very least, fun games to watch... Prefer wins of course....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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it just doesn't matter,, we are here now..
Daman...OOOOKKKKK...thanks for clearing that up for us..lol    
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Quote:
Quote:
it just doesn't matter,, we are here now..
Daman...OOOOKKKKK...thanks for clearing that up for us..lol
You are welcome
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I see the Browns most likely 4-12 with a ceiling of 6-10
I don't blame this on Jake Delhomme either...it goes far deeper then him
this team has serious questions and issues at various positions
WR- we don't have a proven WR..MoMass proved he drops as many as he catches (He reminds me of a slower less athletic Braylon Edwards)...it will be interesting to see if MoMass can overcome his dropsies...if not, he is Quincey morgan #2
Robo is unproven, and Stucki is a question mark.
RB - we don't have a proven RB..we got some talent on paper, but Hardesty is a rookie, hillis had a few good games but is seen more as a fullback, James Davis was hurt all of last year, and Harrison came on late in the year with fresh legs...RB is still unproven, hopefully that will change.
the right-side of our OL is still a big question mark
DL is not as good as it was last year with the loss of corey Williams...williams played great inside at NT...thats where he should have been to begin with. We should have kept Williams and rotated Williams and Rubin at Nose and moved Rogers to DE...soour DL is weaker this year then last.
LB we stayed about the same, Fujita may help somewhat for us, but he is really the only real addition.
we drafted two safeties..be intresting how they turn out...we just don't know yet.
Haden was a risky pick...CB are like QB they are either boom or bust
Daylon McCutchen was the best pure CB we have had here in sometime..if Haden can be as good as he was (solid coverage and great tackling) i'll consider the kid a success.
we have a lot of young players this year..it will be more of a growing year..i'd love to see .500...I just don't think its going to happen...
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You could be right for all I know.. I just have a little more faith that our two second year receivers will improve, I have faith that Harrison is real and Hardesty will only add to the mix in a positive manner..
that's pretty much the difference I guess... JMO,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I like the "excercise of Expectations for browns fans as for me I am a glass hal empty kind of guy and is that a realist or just negative.
Positives. RYans defense: resigned DQ, Roth, added Fujita, Gocong, Brown and some young secondary talent. added some project Giants at Dline and now can move Rogers out to DE. I see this unit as VERY improved and PHYSICAL.
Added Oline, TE, RB help
Negatives: Jake was a huge reach and is in QB freefall set to hit the field vs the NFL elite AFC North defenses. Dumping Quinn. Shaky at safety. the Worst set or WRs in the NFL and many major colleges. Mediocre coaching.
Can we be 500? with a brutal schedule and an aging QB that may last 4 games I see 5 wins. If Jake proves solid and I am totakky wrong maybe 500, yet I think Jake is done. he may pine for that new orleans clipboard job come October.
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NRTU Joe, Maybe we should be looking at this in a different way? Are we better as a team than last yrs. 5 win team? If we break it down position by position, I think we are. Our defensive backfield is better, we acquired Sheldon Brown, and Joe Haden, we added two rookie Safeties, so hopefully at least one turns into the real thing. We no longer have to play a WR at the Safety position, Poteat is off the field (thank God!!), and Adams can play his more natural position of safety. We may even have some depth at both CB and Safety. Our LB core is better with the additions of Gocong and Fujita. Yea, we lost Wimbley, but I beleive that those two easily make up for that loss. DL, yea, we lost Williams who I thought really came on at the end of last year, but we did find out that Rubin can really play the NT position which will allow us to move Rogers around more. Depth is the key here, but I don't think we are any worse here. That means on Defense, I think we have improved in two of three areas, and in the one that we may not have improved on........I don't think we got any worse. Now for the offense. I'll start with the RB's. I think we have definately impoved here with both versitility and depth. Our only loss was Lewis and most of us thought he was on his way out anyway. Hillis and Hardesty give me real hope to go along with how Harrison finished the yr. Also, Vickers is on a contract yr., I expect him to play lights out this yr. WR's, this is a tough one, but as with the DL, I don't think we got any worse, and to be optimistic, we may have gotten better. MoMass and Robinski will be in thier second yrs., and we should throw Stuckey in that grouping as well. Hopefully we see some progress out of all three. So again, maybe not better, but no worse. The TE position I look at as an upgrade with the addition of Ben Watson. He is our immediate, proven, starter. We all hope to see more of Evan Moore as well. Our third TE will surely be filled out by a true blocking TE. So In summary of the TE position I rate this as an upgraded unit. OL, again, I don't think we got any worse, and as with the recievers, another yrs. experience for Mack, should help him aviod the slow start that he had last yr. I am also cautiously optimistic for the rt. side of our O-Line. As with the DL, depth is a concern, and one big blow could really hurt us here. I am hoping the line is better but I will say that the O-line is no worse than what we had last yr. and could very well be better. This leaves the QB position. I don't know what to expect here. The one thing I will say though is that our ON FIELD LEADERSHIP should improve by leaps and bounds. I still can't rate this as an improved area........But it cannot be worse than what we had last year. So to sum this up: DB's--Improved LB's--Improved DL----Same, no worse WR's--Improved  TE's--Improved RB's--Improved OL----Same, maybe improved QB----No Worse, Improved ????????? Does this lead to a .500 team, Maybe, all I can say is I think we will be better. I almost forgot Coaching, I think that with all the wieght taken off of Mangini's shoulders, and with the way we ended last season, plus the guidance and mentorship of Holmgrem and Co., we see an improved coaching staff as well. JMHO, and sorry if I was rambling,.........this may be my longest post in yrs??? 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Sometimes better isn't measured in wins and losses.
The Browns could end up 5-11 and be way better than last year,depending on margain of of victories or losses.
The Browns did improve.But compared to last years team,there was no other way to go but up.
Everyone seems to love these new bodies at LB. I don't..Gocong and Fajita are no different than the Earl Holmes,Kevin Bentleys or Wali Rainers of the past.
They are lunch pail guys..thats hit.....they will play hard,but can make enough plays to win you a game?
There isn't one standout at LB that a OC has to stay up late worrying about.
But in the end,the Browns front 3 have to be able to stand their ground at the LOS and keep the o-lineman off the LB'ers.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Sometimes better isn't measured in wins and losses.
The Browns could end up 5-11 and be way better than last year,depending on margain of of victories or losses.
Well then, we were vastly improved over the year before using that line of thought...
We lost 4 games by a total of 13 points last year.. and we won only one game by a really close margin of 3.
So, using that thought of yours, we were a better team than our 5-11 record would indicate.
Now, if you think that's true, which you clearly do by your own comment,, then it's not a HUGE leap to think we could pick up 3 more wins next season regardless of who is playing linebacker.
Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure we've improved at LB (JMO),, but maybe not where we all want to be. We don't have a Ray Lewis type there, but we have decent guys.. I think an improvement over last year.to be sure....
We'll see but honestly, there is a lot of guess work going on at this moment.. so while I don't agree with your take, it's quite possible that you will end up being right... who knows.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Also, Vickers is on a contract yr., I expect him to play lights out this yr.
I never understood the contract argument.
These guys play to win and to see their name at the top of the stat sheet for their position.
I find it hard to believe they suit up each game saying to themselves, "I gotta play big this season, so I can get a big contract".
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I could see 6-10...7-9....but in that case the Browns at the minimum have to win 2 AFC North games....
the Browns are going to commit to the run to find success in the AFC North....much like the Bengals did in 2009.....
If Delhomme has to throw more than 30 passes..the Browns are big trouble.
That means they are losing in the 4th quarter by 10 pts or more.
the problem is Delhomme doesn't have a Steve Smith on this team or a Williams or Stewart behind him.
The Browns defense is going to have be oppurtunistic and create turnovers to give Delhomme short fields...
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,880 |
Quote:
I could see 6-10...7-9....but in that case the Browns at the minimum have to win 2 AFC North games....
the Browns are going to commit to the run to find success in the AFC North....much like the Bengals did in 2009.....
If Delhomme has to throw more than 30 passes..the Browns are big trouble.
That means they are losing in the 4th quarter by 10 pts or more.
the problem is Delhomme doesn't have a Steve Smith on this team or a Williams or Stewart behind him.
The Browns defense is going to have be oppurtunistic and create turnovers to give Delhomme short fields...
All guess work,, no guarantees.. if you can see 7-9,, why can't you see 8-8..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Quote:
Quote:
Sometimes better isn't measured in wins and losses.
The Browns could end up 5-11 and be way better than last year,depending on margain of of victories or losses.
Well then, we were vastly improved over the year before using that line of thought...
We lost 4 games by a total of 13 points last year.. and we won only one game by a really close margin of 3.
So, using that thought of yours, we were a better team than our 5-11 record would indicate.
Now, if you think that's true, which you clearly do by your own comment,, then it's not a HUGE leap to think we could pick up 3 more wins next season regardless of who is playing linebacker.
Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure we've improved at LB (JMO),, but maybe not where we all want to be. We don't have a Ray Lewis type there, but we have decent guys.. I think an improvement over last year.to be sure....
We'll see but honestly, there is a lot of guess work going on at this moment.. so while I don't agree with your take, it's quite possible that you will end up being right... who knows.
Quite honestly I think we were a worse team than our 5-11 record indicated. We had a 4 game win streak against teams that did not reach the playoffs or had no chance of going to the playoffs. We also had wins where weather played a role.
This year...we'll see.
I liked your breakdown ncdawg. There are some glimmers of hope.
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I think our opponents in two of those wins were still in contention...PIT and JAX.
Maybe not.
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Dawg Talker
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Both Pit and Jax were in playoff contention when we beat them. This "slumping opponent" argument I just don't buy. We lost to freakin' Detroit, we were 1-11, how good do the opponents have to be to make ANY win meaningful?
I think we saw a change of attitude, a ray of hope that the team would no longer depend on incompetent QB play. IMO both D and O responded very well. The amazing thing was how well the run game worked, eating clock and allowing for more aggressive defense.
Improved in QB and secondary, WR are weak but all one year more experienced. LB's better, C more experience, RT improved. Many of the worst weak spots have been addressed.
We are no longer a team that needs to get "lucky" to win 4 or 5 games. Now, 9 or 10 would require just a bit of good bounces.
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