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I would be 100% in favor of a 2 pre-season/ 18 regular season schedule. I'm sure that the players would want a bump in each and every contract .... even though the bottom line number of games is unchanged. NY Times June 16, 2010, 3:43 pm N.F.L. Brings Expanded Season Proposal to Union By LYNN ZINSER At a meeting between the N.F.L. and the players’ association negotiating teams in New York on Wednesday, the league spelled out its proposal for expanding the regular season to 18 games while cutting preseason games back to two. The two sides met for several hours in their first session since early February. The two sides did not discuss any of the issues involved, said Mark Murphy, the president of the Packers, who is a member of the N.F.L.’s negotiating team. Murphy said most of the details of expanding the regular season would have to be ironed out in negotiations, including potentially expanding rosters, altering the off-season schedule and changing injured-reserve rules. Murphy said 2012 would be the earliest an 18-game schedule could be started. According to the union, the players’ main concerns involve increased risk of injury in a longer season. “I’ve been blessed to play this game for so long, but it’s time to start thinking about what legacy and impact changes like this will leave for the players of tomorrow and us after we retire,” Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis said in a statement released by the players’ association. “I know our fans may not like preseason games and I don’t like all of them, but swapping two preseason games for two end-of-season games — when players already play hurt — comes at a huge cost for the player and the team.” Patriots quarterback Tom Brady said: “I’ve taken part in several postseason runs where we have played 20 games. The long-term impact this game has on our bodies is well documented.” Murphy said an N.F.L. study has shown that injury rates do not increase as the season progresses, but that the league was sensitive to the players’ safety fears. He said the league would look at the structure of the off-season, and consider a bye week between the preseason and regular season and other modifications the players might propose. The union has also suggested that players’ compensation should be boosted because of the addition of two regular-season games. The league’s position is that because the overall number of games does not change, player pay should remain the same. “In the current system, players are our partners,” Murphy said, referring to player compensation being approximately 60 percent of league revenues under the salary cap system. “If we can grow revenue and improve the game, they benefit.” The expanded regular season has not been voted on by N.F.L. owners, Murphy said, but added: “It has a lot of momentum among the owners. It addresses a real problem we have in our league, the quality of the preseason.” The league also proposed starting a developmental league, with the goal of giving more preparation time to young players that would be lost by cutting out preseason games. Murphy said that starters rarely play more than five or six quarters of the preseason and the major beneficiaries of the extra time are young players and backups.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know. If we have more seasons like these past few, I'd be all in favor of cutting the number of total games to no more than 6.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Did anyone else just have a A-Ha Moment?
I'm thinking the owners made the moves they made the last two years in order to get more meaningful games or maybe to put something out there as fodder..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think they should go to a 3-17 format ... the extra regular season game, can be played on a neutral site. That was places like London, LA, Oklahoma City, Toronto etc can get an NFL game, and teams aren't forced to lose a home game every couple of years. Might also save a few teams from getting moved, if other cities just get more "neutral site" games. Plus it does away with one of the pre-season games. 
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I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they're shooting for in the end. Come in high and hope to work something out in the middle. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they're coming out with 18-2, and that's our final offer.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
I think they should go to a 3-17 format ... the extra regular season game, can be played on a neutral site. That was places like London, LA, Oklahoma City, Toronto etc can get an NFL game, and teams aren't forced to lose a home game every couple of years. Might also save a few teams from getting moved, if other cities just get more "neutral site" games.
Plus it does away with one of the pre-season games.
The Browns can play in Austin. Or San Antonio. I won't mind 
#gmstrong
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I just wanted to add ... I would absolutely be in favor of an 18 game season. I think it just adds a little more long term competitiveness to the season. I would also be in favor of expanding the rosters. I think that there are enough payers who might develop under NFL coaching to justify a roster size of 55 per team. I would do away with the active./inactive lists for gamedays. A developmental league would be a GREAT idea. I would like to see a rookie salary cap ..... and salaries increase for players as they become better .... rather than going down because they never quite lived up to a #1 status. I would like to see retirees taken care of in any deal. I don't know how they handle revenue sharing right now .... but it seems to me that a simple system of having the league as a whole spend a certain amount based on the prior year's revenues .... and if they don't, they give the players union a check for the difference to be divided between all active players. I think that's about it .... simple, right? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I am opposed. I'd cut the preseason to 3 without adding anything... the NFL season starts when its 100 degrees and ends in February now already... I don't think those 2 extra games do anything but add cash to some pockets.. doesn't help much in figuring out who deserves to be in the playoffs, the 16 game season does that just fine..
yebat' Putin
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I am opposed. I'd cut the preseason to 3 without adding anything... the NFL season starts when its 100 degrees and ends in February now already... I don't think those 2 extra games do anything but add cash to some pockets.. doesn't help much in figuring out who deserves to be in the playoffs, the 16 game season does that just fine..
The way of the world, eh ? No surprise there/here. You could CUT the season to twelve and it would still be plenty good.
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I agree. And expounding on that thought... The way the schedule currently works is perfect at 16 games. 6 v. your division. 4 v. a division within conference. 4 v. a division in the opposite conference. 2 v. the teams you finished equal with in your conference. Perfect balance. Simple algorithm. Creates schedules that are pretty darn close to parity. And 256 is a nice round number of regular season games. What would 18 do? Start the season 2 weeks earlier? Mid August? It's already too dang hot for September games. Push the season back a week or 2? Great, we can have 5 homes games after Dec. 1! (yippee!  ) I would be in favor of moving the home opening back to Labor Day weekend. I always enjoyed watching the airshow while tailgating before kickoff. I'm also in favor of getting rid of preseason games. Or just drop the prices on those exercises in rip-offery. I would pay more for the regular tickets if I didn't have to pay for those games, but that's a whole rant for another time...
Original Dawg Talkers Pick'ems Champion
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I say keep the 4 game preseason (atleast 3) and add 2 more regular season games.. and does that mean DirecTV is gonna increase the price of the NFL Season Ticket?  lol..
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I agree. And expounding on that thought...
The way the schedule currently works is perfect at 16 games. 6 v. your division. 4 v. a division within conference. 4 v. a division in the opposite conference. 2 v. the teams you finished equal with in your conference. Perfect balance. Simple algorithm. Creates schedules that are pretty darn close to parity. And 256 is a nice round number of regular season games.
What would 18 do? Start the season 2 weeks earlier? Mid August? It's already too dang hot for September games. Push the season back a week or 2? Great, we can have 5 homes games after Dec. 1! (yippee! )
I would be in favor of moving the home opening back to Labor Day weekend. I always enjoyed watching the airshow while tailgating before kickoff.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of preseason games. Or just drop the prices on those exercises in rip-offery. I would pay more for the regular tickets if I didn't have to pay for those games, but that's a whole rant for another time...
I like Labor Day weekend as a start date myself.
As for cutting pre-season prices, I was all for that, but after thinking about the matter, I don't see how it could. The owners incur the same expense of travel/hosting a game be it pre-season or regular season.
You still pack up all your stuff to ship and pay for airfare and hotels, meals, etc......that won't happen, and to be honest, I understand why it hasn't.
I like 18 games....start Labor Day and finish one week later.
One thing I would like to see is even up the bye weeks.
Basically shut down the AFC one week and the NFC the other....get all of the bye weeks done pretty much mid season.
For TV purposes, you keep two teams in each conference to play in the off week and give them their bye when the other conference is off so one of the networks isn't left without a game to air.
Just do it all at once to eliminate any competitive advantage or disadvantage. Everybody gets their bye in week 8 or 9.....in a 18 game season....week 9 or 10...could be 8 or 9.....you get the point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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If they go to an 18 game season they should let all players be eligible for every game.
Joe Thomas #73
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If they go to an 18 game season they should let all players be eligible for every game.
I think that is one of the options being discussed as a way to give a few more breathers.....like you are going to rest one of your better players
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I am not opposed to a small bump in pay if they add 2 regular season games. I mean lets be real here. The starters don't play very much in those preseason games to start with. So lets not fool ourselves in saying well it is the same amount of playing time. It isn't and the intensity is vastly different. Lets not forget the risk of injury climbs exponentially with each game addition.
So I think the Injury situation will be a huge issue concerning this measure as in how the IR is handled etc. and closely tied to it will be roster expansion.
Concerning preseason games...Coaches Love them as it is the only time they get to see people in game situations that they need to make decisions on. They also get to work out kinks in certain plays and gameplans without showing too much. The fans are indifferent but mostly hate paying full price for a sub par product. I think most fans know and appreciate that they will see the backups and are interested in seeing how the backups are going to perform to shape out the roster....but despise paying full price to do so. The players hate them as long as their job is secure.
But I heard a comment on NFL Network that I think is very poignant. One of sportscasters(probably Eisen) said that he felt that the owners are bringing these things forward not so much so that they will come to fruition...but so that a dialogue can start happening. Nothing was taking place and no progress was being made and this may get the ball moving.
Now this is just something personal that I have noticed. And I don't know if it is just me.....but the new NFLPA President just really grates on me. I see clips of him and whenever he is talking he jutts out his chin a little and puffs up a little and his lower lip starts to jutt out as well and it just throws out this massive indignant attitude and vibe and it just grates on me....does anyone else get that??? Also...with the NFLPA ......what the heck have they brought to the table??? The whole time it has been we want, we want, we want.....and nothing but the shooting down of every idea the owners have brought forth...It has been a "can't do" attitude the entire process. What ideas have they brought forward? Am I missing something.
I mean I understand that the 18 game season and all these new ideas in the rough aren't ideal...but they can be worked on and there is opportunity there for both sides.....But I don't see the NFLPA side looking at it that way. And I see zero ideas coming to the table from their side.....just absolute selfishness and greed....and they won't even take care of their own.....( retired) They allow neophytes and apprentices to earn millions upon millions more than some of their most celebrated members......It is a VERY confusing organization....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I would be in favor of an expanded season so long as the players do not have to take a cut in revanue sharing under a new CBA, between the Owners and the NFLPA.
IF the League can generate more money in a given year both parties will benifit.
This will mean that training camp will have to be moved up two weeks 
I think the extra buy week @ the start of the season would be a good idea also, but expanding the roster by two imo. Is already something that needs to be adressed.
This is a far better deal for the fans of this game.
All in favor say I!
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I could see them doing something like creating a 2nd bye week for each team ...... and each team getting 1 bye in the 1st 10 weeks, and the 2nd in the 2nd 10 weeks of the season. Maybe they could even set it up as someone else suggested elsewhere where the AFC has a bye one week, and then the NFC has a bye the next week. That would expand the NFL season to a total of 20 televised weeks. (which was a factor in creating the 1st bye week anyway, no matter the political spin out on it) It would be an easy sell to fans, especially with 2 extra meaningful games. The schedule could be ... Training camp starts, all players report. 2 weeks later: Pre-Season Game 1. 1 week later: Pre-Season Game 2. Season Starts. (expanded rosters with all players active on gamedays) Week 6, AFC Bye. Week 7, NFC Bye. Week 13, AFC Bye. Week 14, NFC Bye. The following year the AFC and NFC swap weeks. On to the playoffs. The best team in each conference gets a bye week. The rest do not. Each conference gets 3 Wildcard teams now. Only the team with the best record in each conferences gets a Bye week. This adds 2 Wildcard games to the mix. The teams are re-seeded following the weekend, and we move on to week 2 of the playoffs with 3 winning teams, and 1 team coming off their bye week. Following the Conference Championship games, we have a Bye Week. Super Bowl ... with all of the festivities. Yea. This would add a weekend of NFL games and 2 extra Wildcard games to the monetary mix. They could play a game featuring players from the new developmental league in an "all star" game calling it a "Future Stars Game" or something during the week between Championship games and the Super Bowl. This game replaces the Pro Bowl .... which players do not want to play in anyway ...... and which is an injury risk as well. Problem solved. More money for everyone, and evveryone is happy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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As much as I love football, perhaps the reason it keeps us always coming back for more is that the season is kind of short.
It seems like basketball and baseball last about 11 months each. But football isn't that long. Yeah, there are training camps and OTAs, but that's not the same as meaningful games.
I love watching football, but if the season started (we'll count preseason games since they're actual games) in mid-August and went to late February, I wonder if it would just be overkill.
Just an observation.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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By my calculations, you added a week from beginning to end.. so are we starting even earlier in the heat of August or finishing even later into February?
yebat' Putin
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Start it a week earlier.
Hell, teams run practices in the heat anyway .... and most teams have indoor facilities if it gets too warm for the players outside.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I think they should go to a 3-17 format ... the extra regular season game, can be played on a neutral site. That was places like London, LA, Oklahoma City, Toronto etc can get an NFL game, and teams aren't forced to lose a home game every couple of years. Might also save a few teams from getting moved, if other cities just get more "neutral site" games.
Plus it does away with one of the pre-season games.
I think this would be a nice compromise, if they expand at all (which I'm not sure I am in agreement with only because of the physical toll players would endure). I'd love more regular-season NFL of course, but maybe it would not be worth it.
Pre-season games suck, however... and are a borderline rip-off to the fans.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Honestly, it makes too much sense for them to actually do it.  It's win-win all across the board. Players get one less pre-season game, swapped for a meaningful game. Cities with no NFL team get to host games and at constant pace (16 games a year to spread around). NFL suits get that extra revenue from neutral site games, which will make a TON more than what they could from a 4th pre-season game ... and home fans don't lose a home game in the process.
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As for scheduling it'd be cool to add permanent AFC-NFC rivals.
Sort of like how the Browns always schedule the Lions for the "Great Lakes Classic" in Preseason... why not expand that out to 16 games?
You could get some inner city rivalry between the Jets and Giants. Philly and Pitt would now be able to play each other each year. KC and St Louis...
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Lets not forget the risk of injury climbs exponentially with each game addition.
No it doesn't Pete......the odds/risk of an injury are the same in Week #1 as they are in Week #16. An existing malady more than likely will be more aggravated with each additional game, but the risk of an injury in and of itself is not increased.
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I duno't know if I agree - it's like a cat: the more times it crosses the street the better the odds of getting run over.
gmstrong -----------------
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I duno't know if I agree - it's like a cat: the more times it crosses the street the better the odds of getting run over.
yeah,, I agree with ya Lamp..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ask an oddsmaker or statistician.......
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Or just read the article at the beginning of the thread that states studies show it isn't true..... 
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Or just read the article at the beginning of the thread that states studies show it isn't true.....
Well geesh,, it's an NFL Study.. I assume done by the NFL at thier request and at thier expenset.. What results do you expect?
Here is the exact quote from the article
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Murphy said an N.F.L. study has shown that injury rates do not increase as the season progresses, but that the league was sensitive to the players’ safety fears. He said the league would look at the structure of the off-season, and consider a bye week between the preseason and regular season and other modifications the players might propose.
Could it be that the study is a lilttle self serving?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Could it be that you can't understand simple probabilities???? Could it be that you just prefer to post post post and bicker over things you don't understand?
I find it hard to believe Pete made the statement, because I know him to be an educated person whose opinion I respect a great deal. I was simply pointing out a known fact....the probability of an injury is the same in Week 1 as it is in Week 16.
Try this:
How to Calculate Probability
By: Shawn Donovan
Chances are you need help to calculate probability. Statistical probability can be a tricky subject. But with a little help, the odds are high that you'll be able to find probability answers quickly and easily.
Probability Defined
Probability is the likelihood of an event occurring divided by the number of possible outcomes. That may sound a little confusing, so let's break it down into simpler terms with an example.
Say you have a quarter. If you flip it in the air, what's the likelihood that it will land on heads? One side of the coin is heads and the other is tails. So the total number of outcomes is two, heads or tails. The likelihood of it landing on heads is one, because there is only one heads side. So you just figured out the probability of a coin landing on heads is 1:2, or half of the time.
What if you flipped the coin and it has landed on tails 8 times in a row? What is the probability of the coin landing on heads in the next flip? The answer is still 1:2. Because each event is unique, it doesn't matter how many times it lands on tails, the probability of it being heads is still the same.
You could introduce a ton of variables into the equation but in a cut and dry typical all the same across the board situation the probability is the same.....the chance is the same in week 1 as it is in week 16. Period. Fact.
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Ask an oddsmaker or statistician.......
Which would be safer: a cat that crosses the street 10 times day or a cat that crosses once a day?
If an oddsmaker or statistician can't figure that out, he's not very good at oddsmaking or statistician-ing. 
gmstrong -----------------
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Which street?
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Or, could it be that you just like to insult and belittle people..
Think what you like of me.. Believe what you will... But don't assume I don't understand something simply because I disagree with you.., perhaps, YOU ARE THE ONE THAT DOESN"T UNDERSTAND...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The odds of injury are the same from week to week ...... but the odds than someone would suffer an injury in 2 "real" games vs 2 pre-season games would probably be higher simply because they would probably take more snaps in a regular season game than in a 4th pre-season game. However, I don't think that this is an injury issue on the players' part ..... but rather a money issue. If the owners came out and said "We're prepared to give the players an extra 10% for the extra 2 games, I bet we'd suddenly hear negotiation over the % and not whether ot not to make the change itself.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I dont like the idea, for two reasons.
1 you mess with history and statistics, yeah there used to be 14 games, but still
2 player health, 16 games is brutal enough
i like the idea because 2 more sundays is a good thing for fans
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Lets not forget the risk of injury climbs exponentially with each game addition.
No it doesn't Pete......the odds/risk of an injury are the same in Week #1 as they are in Week #16. An existing malady more than likely will be more aggravated with each additional game, but the risk of an injury in and of itself is not increased.
I agree. The odds are the same from play 1 of the season to the last play of the season. The number of games has no impact on the odds of injury.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,689
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,689 |
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The odds of injury are the same from week to week ...... but the odds than someone would suffer an injury in 2 "real" games vs 2 pre-season games would probably be higher simply because they would probably take more snaps in a regular season game than in a 4th pre-season game.
However, I don't think that this is an injury issue on the players' part ..... but rather a money issue. If the owners came out and said "We're prepared to give the players an extra 10% for the extra 2 games, I bet we'd suddenly hear negotiation over the % and not whether ot not to make the change itself.
Maybe so, but I am not sure the owners would make any real extra money to hand out. Maybe a little more in ticket sales, but not that much more....
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 600
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 600 |
This has more to do with promoting the NFL abroad. Its a way of introducing each team to either 1 or 2 games outside of America without decreasing their regular season home game for season ticket holders.
Last edited by EnglishDawg; 06/21/10 06:59 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
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I agree. The odds are the same from play 1 of the season to the last play of the season. The number of games has no impact on the odds of injury.
Sure if you don't calculate wear and tear on the body as a part of your odds.
Just like the odds of a breakdown for a machined part is the same from start to 5 million cycles. Except it really isn't if you teak the wearing down of the part through those cycles as a part of your calculation. And as that part wears down the risk of breakdown increases....the same holds true for these players....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum NFL brings 18 game season to union
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