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I'll offer mine, but I'm asking for yours, as well.
We won four games in a row, against real NFL teams. What happened, why, and the most important question, can we keep doing those things?
IMO, the major factor was a decision made by the coaching staff to take the QB out of the game. I believe the entire team was totally demoralized by the incompetence of these boobs, and had largely given up. Whether this decision was directly communicated to the team I don't know, but it was clearly obvious that a new course had been charted.
Less than a "buy-in" to the Mangini Method I think it was the fact that the HC and staff had taken a major step to at least give the players a chance to win. No more depending on making a 3-yard pass for a first, just run for it.
The fact that the run game worked as well it did is partly on Harrison and Vickers, and partly on the O-line. I know Womack replaced St'Clair for much of this time, with I believe Hadnot at guard.
Were these changes such an upgrade, or are they just better run blockers?
Watching our RB's repeatedly bang for good yardage, and break free often for large gains, make first downs when they knew we were coming, and then do it again next week, was like having a three-hour orgasm after being married for twenty years. Well, forty but the first twenty or so were OK.
Also, the QB's in their more limited role, did seem to be marginally less awful, looked like better pass protection, as well. Most likely this was just because we threw so rarely.
Defense played with fire all game for the first time all year. Also, they appeared to be "let loose" much more by the DC. Partly enthusiam for the new strategy, partly fresher legs due to the succesful run game. Rubin at nose and light-ass DQ out were the major personnel changes, and I think both were significant.
More consistent run-stopping, and more sacks and pressures. Did the coverage appear to be a bit tighter? Either by scheme, ability, or disruption due to pressure?
I think we can keep running it, and keep attacking on D. Throw in actually completng a pass on 3rd and 4 occassionally, and some coverage when the opponents have a 3rd and 20, we could go somewhere.
I am getting too pumped, need some rational analysis and negativity to bring me down.
Or maybe I'm right, most will agree with me, and this year finally begins the march to assume our rightful place of Galactic Domination.
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3 of the 4 teams were bottom feeders on the D side of the ball and the Stillers played one of their worst games in the past 5 years when we faced them.
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3 of the 4 teams were bottom feeders on the D side of the ball and the Stillers played one of their worst games in the past 5 years when we faced them.
Two of the 4 teams were still in contention for the playoffs until we beat them,,,
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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3 of the 4 teams were bottom feeders on the D side of the ball and the Stillers played one of their worst games in the past 5 years when we faced them.
Two of the 4 teams were still in contention for the playoffs until we beat them,,,
and don't we get any credit for making the Steelers play one of their worst games in the past 5 years?
#gmstrong
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and don't we get any credit for making the Steelers play one of their worst games in the past 5 years?
According to their fans, Cribbs beat them himself. I don't recall him being in on any of those sacks. 
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and don't we get any credit for making the Steelers play one of their worst games in the past 5 years?
According to their fans, Cribbs beat them himself. I don't recall him being in on any of those sacks.
only because we didn't line him up at OLB 
#gmstrong
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No.. When teams beat us it is because they are a good team. When we beat them it's because they had a bad game. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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3 of the 4 teams were bottom feeders on the D side of the ball and the Stillers played one of their worst games in the past 5 years when we faced them.
Two of the 4 teams were still in contention for the playoffs until we beat them,,,
and don't we get any credit for making the Steelers play one of their worst games in the past 5 years?
apparently not.. I guess there are too many negative nancys running around..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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No.. When teams beat us it is because they are a good team.
When we beat them it's because they had a bad game.
You just explained the TV announcers for the White Sox. I know, I know....nothing to do with the Browns. But living in Chicago gets me tons of exposure with them.
"Ugh...Hafner hits that mistake pitch into the bleachers. Come on Buerle!" NEVER...."good hit by the away team". And conversely, they never say the opposing team made a mistake pitch, it was them crushing an out pitch.
Anyway, yes....that's the way some people see things. I saw two of the teams as playoff contenders that played a poor game because our team forced them into it. And the other two, we did the same to them.
Four wins in a row....is four wins in a row. They don't give you half credit because the other team had the sun in their eyes. You won, they didn't.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Irregardless of whom our opponents were, going 4 and 0 in December is quite an accomplishment in It's self.
No team in the League respected our passing game last year and that's an under statement.
We were successful in the running game despite the fact that we were often looking at 9 defensive players in the box as they were selling out to the run. This senario most often times favors the defense.
I think that to a degree our success might be contributed to our players up front winning their individual battles and possibly secondary ones as well, but by bringing both of your safeties up in the box you are counting on the defense to out number the blocker and stop the run at the line of scrimmage, however you now have no secondary line of defense and can exploited for big plays.
I think the biggest reason for our success was our commitment to the running game and maybe some good O'l fashion professional pride.
I see something here we can build a foundation on for our franchise.
IE.....light at the end of a long and winding tunnel.
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3 of the 4 teams were bottom feeders on the D side of the ball and the Stillers played one of their worst games in the past 5 years when we faced them.
Two of the 4 teams were still in contention for the playoffs until we beat them,,,
Horsehockey........Pittsburgh was still in contention after we beat them, even though I like to joke that we knocked them out. They played the worst game they have played in 5 years on that day, across the board.
KC finished 4-12 Cue Jim Mora - Playoffs????????
Oakland finished 5-11 Playoffs??????
Jax finished 7-9 Playoffs???????
Playoffs????????
People can make up crap all they want about how we became a better team at the end but it was a lackluster effort and then bottom feeders....
Out of KC, Oak, and Jax....most of their rankings in regard to points allowed, rushing yards allowed and passing yards allowed they didn't fall into the top 20. Hell, Oakland was 31st in the league in yielding points and 31st in yielding overall yards.......but yeah, it was our superior domination that allowed us to defeat them.....or was it Derek Anderson's 8 completions on the day that sealed the deal. They sucked!!!!!!! That's why we beat them.... 
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Look at our defensive starters from game 1 compared to game 13, 14, 15, and 16.
Look at who were the new primary backups.
At the end of the year there were a LOT of hungry players. There were also very few players starting at the same position as they did week 1.
Guys like Costanza, Bernard, Maiava, Roth, Schaefering, Rubin, Trusnic, Adams, Ventrone, Moore, Jennings, and Estandia all made significant contributions down the stretch. Harrison, obviously, made an impact in the final 3 games.
I think that it was a combination of players buying into the system, and also young and hungry players stepping up and grabbing roles for themselves. 14 younger or less experienced players really did some impressive things for this team over the final 4 weeks. I think that might have been the most impressive part. Guys "got it" ..... and it wasn't all of the old guys ..... but the young guys who led the way. That speaks well for the future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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too bad we couldn't make a list that long for our offense..
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horse hockey? sounds like an interesting sport. do they get skates nailed to their feet instead of shoes?
Pitt was in playoff contention when we beat them. You are correct that they needed another loss to be officially eliminated (doesn't that make it better that we beat them?)
JAX, on the last day of the season, was still in playoff contention when we beat them. They needed to win and NYJ to lose (who played Sunday night), neither of which happened. But, they were in contention.
KC and Oakland were both bottom10 teams along with us.
#gmstrong
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too bad we couldn't make a list that long for our offense..
Well, it was mostly players in the running game who stepped up on offense.
Harrison, Jennings, Vickers, (who himself said that it took him time to get with the system) Moore, Estandia, and Massaquoi. (who showed amazing progress considering who his QBs were) Even Robiske started to come on at the end of the season. I really thnk that the QBs held the offense back to an enormous extent last year, and made signs of progress difficult for certain players.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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KC finished 4-12 Cue Jim Mora - Playoffs????????
Oakland finished 5-11 Playoffs??????
Jax finished 7-9 Playoffs???????
Playoffs????????
People can make up crap all they want about how we became a better team at the end but it was a lackluster effort and then bottom feeders....
Until the last 4 games, we were the worst team I have ever seen disgrace the NFL field. THE WORST. We didn't quit and beat teams that before the last month were all better than us. I dont care how good/bad they were WE were the lesser team before the 4 game win streak and their fans expected them to beat us.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Horsehockey........Pittsburgh was still in contention after we beat them, even though I like to joke that we knocked them out.
OK,, so we didn't knock them out of the playoffs.. but we sure made it tougher.. and yeah, they had the worst game in years,,, I say it was because we played extremely well.. Well enough to cause them to have the worst game..
Jax was still in contention when we played them so YES we knocked them off...
Nitpick all you want.. it is what it is,, we won 4 game to end the season..
If you think it matters about the quality of the teams the SB winners played, then I demand that every superbowl winner that played weak teams during the season return the Lombardi trophy.. They obviously don't deserve it because they played a few weak teams during the season.......
And you say I was dropped on my head.. Geesh 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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and don't we get any credit for making the Steelers play one of their worst games in the past 5 years?
According to their fans, Cribbs beat them himself. I don't recall him being in on any of those sacks.
only because we didn't line him up at OLB
hey now, don't give mangini any ideas. 
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3 of the 4 teams were bottom feeders on the D side of the ball and the Stillers played one of their worst games in the past 5 years when we faced them.
Two of the 4 teams were still in contention for the playoffs until we beat them,,,
and don't we get any credit for making the Steelers play one of their worst games in the past 5 years?
Yes, we get credit for a win, but the Raiders beat them at home the week before. Their OL was in shambles for both games, plus Big Ben was playing really hurt in each one. They had something like 2 guys off the practice squad playing on the "O" line, sack time. They were missing about 6 or 7 starters and if he had a few more minutes Big Ben probably would have pulled it out. Without the game Cribbs had, we might not have scored a point in that game. They got a couple of guys back the next week and finished with 3 wins.
As for the others, KC picked #5 in the last draft and Oakland right behind us. The Jags were on a big slide, they lost the 3 games before we played them, to finish with 4 loses for the year. 
We might have been better off if we lost those last four games, we would have been tied with the Rams for the #1 pick, no worse than the #2 pick, plus we would have a new HC and OC. Looking ahead, I think we go somewhere between 4-6 wins, but much closer games. Injuries and the health of some of the wounded we took in the draft, will decide that.  
Hopefully we get a starting QB in the next draft and and some good help on the "D" side of the ball. We may actually be in the thick of things by the 2013 season, provided they play a 2011 season. 
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Nancy Nancy Nancy  The main reason we won all 5 games last year is because those teams played awful when we played them. Three of the teams we beat were pathetic just like us. The two others were in major funks. All 5 of them were singing kumbeya along with us when the playoffs started. We beat exactly zero playoff teams last year. The second reason we won was the awesome run blocking the last three games. As a group they figured it out. Vickers was absolutely lighting people up. Womack was a very good stand-in at RT from a run blocking standpoint. Our guards were pulling beautifully and Mack was destroying people on the second level. Thomas was his usual all-pro self. And Harrison was patient watching all the carnage unfold in front of him and he did a great job after that in space. That's why we won. Hooray! We were still a god awful team last year.
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I am getting too pumped, need some rational analysis and negativity to bring me down..
Our new messiah MH is on record expressing surprise that this team was able to win those 4 games without throwing the ball and basically said that's not the way to win in the NFL.
I think he's right.
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You make a good argument, but that's all erased by your signature. 
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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They played the worst game they have played in 5 years on that day
Shep. I'm deeply disappointed if you have seen every Steeler game played over the past 5 years. Then again at the same time I can't blame ya, she is pretty hot.
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. DA was put out of the game I agree and that helped.
.We played bottom feeders struggling vs the run at the very time we put that waste of space St. Clair on the sidelines and put Vickers in the game almost full time to throw devastating blocks.
.WE got a lot of production from Cribbs and used more wildcat at the end.
Roth at OL, Bernard blitzing, Rubin at Nose, better play from BMac and overall defensive aggression was up.
. beating the Steelers was a tonic that carried over to beating the final three patsies.
Harrison woke up.
Ok this year we have much greater depth at DB, LBer, and moving Rogers outside will cause more disruption. I expect big things defensively.
Offense is on JAKE whom I fear was a HUGE MISTAKE. I thought we could win with Quinn but after we throw Jake in the lake we only have Senecaca and a rookie...Ratcliff is too horrible to even consider.
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Don't forget Quinn was minimized, as well.
The change at RT is one that particularly interests me. St.Clair was awful, and Womack at RG was average, at best. Now it usually takes a pretty good guard to make a decent tackle, but I thought Womack played very well. SFAIK a tackle needs to be a bit faster, and Pork Chop is not noted for his speed at guard.
Why did this work? Should Womack be a tackle and not a guard? Or is it just that he is a better run blocker, and was not really called upon to pass protect?
Hadnot was at guard for most of this period, wasn't he? His play seemed better, as well.
Is Mack's improvement a factor? I remember when we had Fowler and Faine, it seemed to me that I saw fewer missed assignments with Fowler, he was supposed to be better at calling blocking assignments. It is hard for me to determine such factors as I have had no formal training in this.
I would assume run blocking is easier for the center to call than pass blocking, but I just don't know how this works.
I know I asked for the negativity, but how about a little less of that now and some more analysis? I remember a time when the off-season was for making excuses for why we lost games we should have won, not the other way around.
Good things happened. I want more of that. What aspects of whatever changes occurred can or will continue to make winning more likely?
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Yeah the four teams we beat weren't exactly top-shelf teams, but in the NFL, four straight wins against anybody is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you consider how our season had been going pre-December.
If the win streak did anything (aside from probably saving Eric Mangini's job), it helped foster more of a winning culture, if only slightly: there was a good feeling with the Browns at the end of 2009 and that could translate to a more positive mindset among the team heading into 2010.
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Even during the 2007 season the best we did was 3 consecutive wins.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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this is JMO,
The Pashos signing has done two things.
1. improvement the starting RT position
2. improved depth at tackle and guard
St Clair,while being a below average starter, will be decent as a back-up. You can't have 53 starting quality players on your roster, won't happen.
Womack can play guard or tackle. It's his versatility that is valued. Tackle is a harder position, being on the edge and having no possibility of help on the edge.By the time Womack replaced St. Clair, we were running a najority of the plays.That indicates to me that Womack is a decent run blocker, but not as good as a pass blocker,at least at tackle. If Womack is our starting RG this year, we will be OK. But I'll not be surprised if Lauvao takes over before the end of the season.
Mack's development made Fraley and Hadnot expendable in the FO's opinion.Both Fraley and Hadnot were back-up cemter/guards. The FO realized their mistake in having no back-up center too late and signed the now released Eric Ghaiciuc.
The other vets on the OL are Yates and Kooistra.Both have been in the league for a number of years as back-ups. They have managed to stay in the league for some reason. If there is a back-up center/ guard available after camp cuts look for the FO to make a move. If this happens either Kooistra or Yates may be cut unless the FO decides to carry 10 linemen.
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The other vets on the OL are Yates and Kooistra.Both have been in the league for a number of years as back-ups. They have managed to stay in the league for some reason. If there is a back-up center/ guard available after camp cuts look for the FO to make a move. If this happens either Kooistra or Yates may be cut unless the FO decides to carry 10 linemen.
What about Paul Fanecia or whatever. He was picked up off waivers, which means he has to be somewhat valued (because we thereby put ourselves in the back of the line). He might be able to play guard too (may be start the beginning and Lavauro comes in mid-season).
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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If you think it matters about the quality of the teams the SB winners played, then I demand that every superbowl winner that played weak teams during the season return the Lombardi trophy.. They obviously don't deserve it because they played a few weak teams during the season.......
WTF does it matter that a SB team beats a few cupcakes during the season in relation to us winning our last 4 games???? How is that analagous?
Please tell me what that has to do with this discussion...........
I'll help you out, it has NOTHING to do with this discussion. Nada.
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You make a good argument, but that's all erased by your signature.
oober- That was more of a poke at Mike Tomlin's comments about planning to unleash hell in December and not so much a reflection of our season ending performance.
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Only Browns fans would find a way to spin a four game winning streak into a negative thing, seriously. (I'm sure we're all guilty of turning a positive into a negative with regards to our team in one way or another) One thing I don't get is how we could question what happened.
We may have not beat THE BEST teams, sure, dominating the Cheifs and Raiders really doesn't help stand out but we also beat the Steelers (a game I'm sure nobody was expecting us to dominate like we did) and we beat the Jaguars who aren't nearly as awful as the first two named teams, but they aren't where they were a couple of years ago either.
We saw Jerome Harrison FINALLY bust it out big. Yeah, he only produced over four games, WHATEVER! He broke out, and he set a team record that I doubt will be broken any time soon (maybe by himself, that would be something) and he also made us realize the kind of player that has been sitting on the BENCH while we picked our noses and watched Jamal Lewis post the most bland thousand yard seasons that he possibly could.
We saw play out of our defense that we did not get in previous weeks, maybe all year long. We got to see what Matt Roth brought to the table, as well as how well we can perform without key starters. Our Defense kept us in those games and we would not have been able to win if the play from that squad was sub-par in any way.
Most importantly I think that winning streak set a tone that will hopefully continue in 2010. It gave us something to be HAPPY about with our team, that we certainly did not get anywhere in the first 3/4ths of 2009. I agree with everyone who says that it saved Mangini's job because it's the truth, if we had managed to go 2-14, do you expect Holmgren would've been so easy going about letting Mangini keep his job? I suspect not, but you never know.
There are so many positives that could be drawn from that winning streak. It completely switched the tone of the off-season (Holmgren's hire also helped that) and I think it's been a big cause of the attitude adjustment of a lot of the fan base. Again, how would we all feel if Cleveland had managed to go 2-14 or 3-13 and have really one of the worst years that the team has had upon re-entering the league in 1999.
I hope we can start out 2010 hot, and maybe stretch the winning streak to 5 or 6, maybe even 7 games. I'd love to start 2010 3-0 but that's getting ahead of ourselves. Lets see how the team does in pre-season before getting too excited.
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I know, I know, I'm just pulling your leg.
It was funny to read one after another in the same post.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,506 |
Not to burst your bubble there ... but Harrison broke out over the final 3 games. Against Pittsburgh he had 7 carries for 9 yards.
He did have a nice game against Cincinnati earlier in the season.
Jennings was the workhorse against Pittsburgh, gaining 73 yards on 20 carries. Cribbs also added 8 carries for 87 yards in that game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249 |
Quote:
Jennings was the workhorse against Pittsburgh, gaining 73 yards on 20 carries. Cribbs also added 8 carries for 87 yards in that game.
The Pittsburgh game is the one I use whenever I am defending Chris Jennings. I think he's a good back who proved in that game especially that he could be a quality backup.
Plus, he got the first rushing TD the Browns had managed in a long time.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814 |
I think there is a mentality to always upgrade the bottom part of your roster, they must think this kid has a chance to nudge aside some of the bottom of the pile at Oline. We may still look to upgrade for a backup T as I still think St. Clair is absolutely AWFUL.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
I was a huge proponent of Jennings all season long and felt vindicated in the Pittsburgh game... .and then what I saw of him the remaining three games had me beginning to doubt my belief in him.
He was hesitant, stutter stepping and slow to hit the hole.... he was William Green.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,576
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,576 |
I liked Jennings since he seemed to step up when we needed him most (Pittsburgh). I thing he went all out in that game and couldn't match his performance in subsequent games.
I feel bad because I think we're going to cut him, but I don't think he's as good as Davis (just a feeling). That's why they have training camp/mini-camp (to sort out who makes the roster).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
Quote:
Quote:
The other vets on the OL are Yates and Kooistra.Both have been in the league for a number of years as back-ups. They have managed to stay in the league for some reason. If there is a back-up center/ guard available after camp cuts look for the FO to make a move. If this happens either Kooistra or Yates may be cut unless the FO decides to carry 10 linemen.
What about Paul Fanecia or whatever. He was picked up off waivers, which means he has to be somewhat valued (because we thereby put ourselves in the back of the line). He might be able to play guard too (may be start the beginning and Lavauro comes in mid-season).
Petey,
Fanaika is listed as a 327 lb. guard and not a center. That is not to say he can't learn to play center. Maybe the FO thinks this guy has some potential. That is my guess.Heckert drafed him after all.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 |
Someone needs to add an asterisk to this "4 game streak."
It was against bad teams and decent teams playing bad games---and while they were real NFL teams and real NFL games----I don't believe the Browns victories should be construed as actual NFL victories.
So please someone, add an asterisk so people will stop confusing this as an actual legitimate "NFL 4 game streak."
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The four game streak : Analysis
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