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Here's how I see it. In 2008, we wouldn't have and didn't beat those bad teams. Last year, Mangini schemed, the players played good games, and we won. We threw just about everything we had at the steelers, except for the ball. I know I'm not the only one that saw the 1-6 defense, and rothiswhatis couldn't tell where the blitzes were coming from. He also didn't have time to get rid of the ball, and couldn't break a tackle. We whooped their hides. (say that with a southern accent)
Again, the season before, we would have dragged out the games against those last 3 teams and lost. Some of the most boring TV was the end of the 2008 season, because I never walk away from a game even if we're losing. I really wanted to in 2008. You couldn't have pried me from the TV last year. Part of becoming a good team is beating the bad teams. All the good teams have put us behind them the past few years, and it looks like we're going to start making that hard for them.
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I'm with you Daman.. I have gone on and on before about how "winning" is a learned skill... playing well and competing is great but there is an intangible skill that seperates teams that win close games from teams that lose close games... I won't go on about it here.
I get what you are saying about those last 7 games or so and that is why I made my point about the offense...
In those 7 games, we gave up 422 yards passing to Stafford, 373 to Rivers, 331 to Cassell, 333 to Charlie Frye..... which is why I don't know how to buy into the defensive lovefest of how great our defense looked those final weeks with essentially walk-ons.... as a team we played better and well enough to win some games but I still think the bulk of the improvement was on offense... its not like we were the '85 Bears...
yebat' Putin
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WOW,, the more I think about it, the more I agree with your theory that it wasn't all about the D, but instead, it was the O.. 
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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WOW,, the more I think about it, the more I agree with your theory that it wasn't all about the D, but instead, it was the O..
to turn it around....hard to say it was all the O though because the game that kick-started that 4-game run, the most important win during that run, and the one people tend to remember the best because of those two factors was the Pittsburgh game.
in that game, it was decidedly the D (and the STs) who won the game.
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Quote:
hard to say it was all the O though because the game that kick-started that 4-game run, the most important win during that run, and the one people tend to remember the best because of those two factors was the Pittsburgh game.
in that game, it was decidedly the D (and the STs) who won the game.
I hear ya.. but to tie that to what Daman is saying, the Steeler game started the winning streak but the playing better started weeks before that.. and truth be told, we were all over the map as far as offense and defense..
In week 10 we held a good Ravens offense to 16.. but they completely shut out our offense, we didn't even sniff points in that game.. good game by the defense, lousy game by the offense.
In week 11 we put up 37 points.. WOOOHOOOO.. we gave up 38.  and to the Lions no less. Very good game by the offense, horrid game by the defense.
In week 12 we held a very good Bengals team to 16 but could only muster 7..
In week 13 we put 23 on the Chargers that some were picking as super bowl contenders.. but we gave up 30...
In week 14 we did finally win one and this was a good defensive effort holding the steelers to 6 but only managing 13..
In week 15 we gave up 34 to the Chiefs.. but scored 41.. very good offense, crappy defense.
Weeks 16 and 17 I have to say that both looked pretty decent against the Raiders and the Jags.. so yea, I'd say we were all over the map.
yebat' Putin
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In week 10 we held a good Ravens offense to 16.. but they completely shut out our offense, we didn't even sniff points in that game.. good game by the defense, lousy game by the offense.
first, I agree with what you are saying about being all over the map.
but, this game, sadly, wasn't the defense playing well. they jumped out to a lead and sat on it. they did nothing but run out the clock in the 2nd half.
#gmstrong
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That's how I remember it, too.... we weren't pushing Balt. at all.
My God our offense was garbage for the longest time in 2009, at least until we just committed to bulldozing along the ground.
It did seem to spark the defense.... know what though, when you look at DC's comments (r.e. the the #s that the Charlie Frye's of the world put up against us), it's hard to deny that our secondary still sucked.... but at least we were getting some better work out of our LBs.
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I think the bottom line on most of this is,, we played better because each unit contibuted more to the overall....
Winning or feeling like you can win,, learning to win, that all changes the attitude.. and I think that's just what happened. The attitudes changed, they started to believe they could win....and they did.. Not pretty,,, Ugly in some cases.. but a win is a win.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Am I the only one who actually watched the Chargers game? 
I doubt it
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Am I the only one who actually watched the Chargers game?
I was there.... we were in that game and fighting hard. Then, we hit some adversity and the wheels came off quickly and we just never recovered.
I think, actually, that we can blame MacDonald for that one.... didn't he get burned over the top in a hurry right after halftime, and that, followed by us throwing an INT, is what made our wheels come off.
Just vague memories....
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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My memory of the game is that they dominated us until the fourth quarter. They let their foot off our neck and Brady Quinn started to carve through their prevent defense with dinks and dunks for a couple scores. Somehow in the end we had a chance at the game...but only because the Chargers started playing the prevent and thought they had the game won. That's my memory of the game. So here's the complete game book: http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/54653/CLV_Gamebook.pdfThe Chargers scored 27 straight points and were leading 27-7 going into the fourth quarter where they had possession. The Chargers had 477 yards of total offense, no turnovers, no penalties on offense and only one punt all day. We played them tough? It was a good game from the Browns perspective?  San Diego basically dominated us then let up and almost got beat because of it. I'll give BQ credit for taking what SD was unquestionably giving him and making a game of it. But if the script were flipped and SD fans were saying that we played the Browns tough everyone on this board would be ROTFL.
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General response:
When did we get so picky about winning games???
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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But if the script were flipped and SD fans were saying that we played the Browns tough everyone on this board would be ROTFL.
I agree with you that SD did let up. But the biggest difference I noticed in that game was that the team didn't quit and actually put forth the effort to make a comeback.
Prior to that game they were losing 30-3 on a regular basis, it was rather embarrassing.
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Quote:
General response:
When did we get so picky about winning games???
When we had agendas to push.
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Quote:
General response:
When did we get so picky about winning games???
Response to that response: That's a losers mentality.
In addition to rooting on a Browns win, I'd like them to play good football. That Buffalo win was painful to watch. Not as painful as a drubbing, which unfortunately has become commonplace, but painful all the same.
I want to win period.
But I don't get too excited to pay good money and waste my time to watch slap fights between bad teams.
I guess I'm old enough to have watched the Browns when they were consistantly a good team and I probably hold them to a higher standard than a fan coming into this in 1999.
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Quote:
Am I the only one who actually watched the Chargers game?
What is seen and what is recalled seem to be an issue for some around here. Kinda like what I've always said---perception and reality are oftentimes two different things.
Thus seems to be the case here.....there are those that think we suddenly became a better football team when in actuality all that is happened is that we played some teams that happened to suck more than we did.
Jerome Harrison suddenly became an all-pro......I guess playing the 31st D against the run helps in that regard, especially when a team is just lumbering thru the end of the season, knowing damned well that they aren't packing suitcases for the playoffs.
As you stated, we were getting our asses handed to us by the Bolts and now that story seems to be changing as well with the passage of time. That's all fine and dandy....if folks want to dream of candy canes and chestnuts roasting on an open fire who am I to argue with those fantasies?
Christmas in July.........that's what it is. 
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Quote:
General response:
When did we get so picky about winning games???
I don't have an answer for you Oober,,, I take wins anyway I can get them,., Pretty, Ugly,, don't matter, a win is a win..
But what you have here is some that overthink things and use that overthinking to prove a point about how bad the Browns or a particular player actually was/is. It also works in reverse,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Without thinking too hard,2 winning seasons since the return is bad.The crap and players this team has tried to sell us as Professional has been bad.Many people have become jaded.
The winning streak was a bolt from the blue in one of the worse played years I've ever watched.
As it is,the streak means as much going into this year as the 11 games that precedeed it,nothing.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Exactly. In regard to the 2010 season, it is meaningess. Ancient history. By the time this season starts, we will be 8 months removed from the "streak.
9 times out of 10 the more talented team will win the ballgame, that's all it ever boils down to. Not some made up improvement........
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As it is,the streak means as much going into this year as the 11 games that precedeed it,nothing.
Are you absolutly, 100% sure that it's meaningless.
I mean, can you say with absolute authority that the winning streak at the end of last season means NOTHING to the upcoming year..
Are you sure that it can't have an effect on the way they are thinking and feeling about themselves and thier chances of building on with what they started late last season?
Cause if you can say that, you go against all conventional wisdom about winning breeding winning.. you are therefore telling such coaching luminaries like Paul Brown, Newt Rockne, Vince Lombardi and George Halas who all preached that winning breeds winning, that they were wrong.
They never put a caviat on it that it can only work within the season,,
So essentially, you and Shep are saying you know more than that group of men.
I vote for BC and Shep to be the new brain trust for the Browns
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I vote for BC and Shep to be the new brain trust for the Browns
You could also learn how to use your brain if you tried.
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...especially when a team is just lumbering thru the end of the season, knowing damned well that they aren't packing suitcases for the playoffs.
Are you referring to the Browns not packing suitcases or their opponents?
I am relieved that the season ended the way it did. Not blindly giddy...just relieved.
It might mean the guys started buying into the plan...might not.
We very well may have been the worst team in the league for better-than the first half of the year.
We played better than (4) teams (straight) at the end of the year when everyone on the field would be home for the playoffs.
Debating the value of the streak is fine...trying to say it was a fluke because the other teams sucked too? Meh.
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Quote:
Quote:
I vote for BC and Shep to be the new brain trust for the Browns
You could also learn how to use your brain if you tried.
I bet you were the kid in grade school that stuck the pigtails of the girl in front of you in the inkwell.......
I really always gave you more credit than to come back with Childish responses than that...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh, sheppy.... that's not a very nice thing to say. Isn't that kind of insult against the rules, or something (*sighs*)?
You and Daman are both kind of right.
Winning can breed more winning, cuz it provides loftier expectations and a belief in your yourself. Serious question: did you ever play sports?
You've got to lose to learn how to win, quoting Aerosmith.
On the other hand, the final four games of 2009 has led us
to 0-0 in 2010.
gmstrong -----------------
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Oh, sheppy.... that's not a very nice thing to say. Isn't that kind of insult against the rules, or something (*sighs*)?
Just replying in kind to his brain comment.
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Winning can breed more winning, cuz it provides loftier expectations and a belief in your yourself.
I don't dispute that at all. However, these guys know the score.
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Serious question: did you ever play sports?
You've got to lose to learn how to win, quoting Aerosmith.
Yeah, I played. What position did this Mr Smith play?
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Mr. Smith....  
gmstrong -----------------
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There are very,very few statements I could make with absolute authority,naturally this would not be one of them.
It is my opinion,and my right to state it.
In today's NFL,good coaching and good players breed winning.
Somewhere on here you where repliing to a negative comment along the lines they everybody is 0-0,and you where 100% correct.Now you seem to be impliing that we are somehow ahead because of a meaningless end-of-season winning streak.
I'm not knocking it,it was great,it was fun.Now it's past and we have a new year.Guess what? Everybody is 0-0.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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While I agree it was last year, and that means squat to us as fans. Just about every player interviewed who played those last four games, seemed to use them as motivation to prepare for this season.
They might not mean much to the "football experts" that reside here, but to say it didn't mean something to the players is crap. They have all commented that the team seemed to be pulling together, and that to me sounds like they were inspired by the streak, and will use it as motivation for this seasons start.
It doesn't mean that they will somehow win because of it, but IMO they will have motivation to continue it. Saying it won't effect them is hard for me to take. Now that doesn't mean that they will somehow be better because of it, just a little more enthusiastic about the program..........that is a good thing isn't it?
#gmstrong
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I don't see the need for snide comments.I don't believe you and I have ever conversed.We simply see things differently,no harm in that.
BTW,I had a chance to work with Wiggins and Macon acoupla weeks ago,WOW is all I can say.
Toledo fans are going to love those two.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
There are very,very few statements I could make with absolute authority,naturally this would not be one of them.
It is my opinion,and my right to state it.
In today's NFL,good coaching and good players breed winning.
Somewhere on here you where repliing to a negative comment along the lines they everybody is 0-0,and you where 100% correct.Now you seem to be impliing that we are somehow ahead because of a meaningless end-of-season winning streak.
I'm not knocking it,it was great,it was fun.Now it's past and we have a new year.Guess what? Everybody is 0-0.
I have no quarrel with opinion.. none.
But it's all my fault,, I'm a relatively positive person by nature.. anyone that has met me and talked to me face to face will tell you that I live for the one liner quip.. the sillier and dumber the better..
So when I'm on here, sometimes I find myself reaching for one of those quips,, it rarely works.. in fact, I don't remember a time when it ever worked..
So,, being basically a positive person, I'm always going to look for the good in things.. Just the way I'm wired..
But if you want to look at it otherwise,, it's perfectly ok by me...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That's pretty cool. Wiggins is fast as heck. Macon is a good athlete, but he is a head case. He tends to whine if he messes up, and can really effect his play. I see every game, and have seen him become not just a non factor, but a liability when he doesn't get his way.
By the way, I wasn't trying to be "snide" towards you. I don't even think I was replying to you, just a general reply,sorry.
Last edited by eryze19akaBT58; 07/05/10 05:43 PM.
#gmstrong
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