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Sorry for the bad news guys
Patriots | Samuel tagged as franchise player
Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:21:00 -0800
Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the New England Patriots have placed their franchise tag on CB Asante Samuel. Mike Reiss, of the Boston Globe, reports Samuel's agent, Alonzo Shavers, said they do not look at the tag as a bad thing. He added it's a step towards working on a long-term deal.
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o well..
i dont really think we need that much help at Cornerback.. like seriously.. the Browns have done well using UDFA's and guys from other teams...
Starting 3 in 07'
Bodden
Holly
Minter
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The biggest downside to this is that if we were targetting Clements, his cost just went up.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Quote:
Starting 3 in 07'
Bodden
Holly
Minter
And that doesn't scare the livin hell outta you?
And we haven't done well... we got tore up. We did well considering what it was that we put out there, but we didn't do well overall.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Bummer, I was hoping we'd get a chance to make a run at Asante. I don't think we'll go after Nate. Too much $$$. But I thought the same thing about LCB last year too, so... 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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time to put up or shut up. shell out the cash for Clements or pray that Minter or Holly improves. Also, look for a CB in the draft. I say it's time to shell out for Clements. Our D is not that far from being very good, even dominating. Improve the DL, sign Clements, and get 1 more LB and we should be there on D.
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Quote:
pray that Minter or Holly improves...
Holly, tied for 4th in the NFL in interceptions, is not good enough for you?
Clements
16 games, 56 solo tackles, 72 total, 3 interceptions, 1 TD, 0 Def TD
Holly
16 games, 54 solo tackles, 57 total, 5 interceptions, 1 TD, 2 Def TD
I guess you're right. Maybe someday Holly can only dream of putting up the numbers that Clements is, no matter how many more millions and millions we'd have to pay to get Clements... 
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Quote:
time to put up or shut up. shell out the cash for Clements or pray that Minter or Holly improves. Also, look for a CB in the draft. I say it's time to shell out for Clements. Our D is not that far from being very good, even dominating. Improve the DL, sign Clements, and get 1 more LB and we should be there on D.
So to have a dominant defense of 11 players we only need to improve the DL (3), and a LB (1) and sign a top-tier CB (1). Great, only 5 of the 11 players (45%) need replaced! 
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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All Pro
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Quote:
o well..
i dont really think we need that much help at Cornerback.. like seriously.. the Browns have done well using UDFA's and guys from other teams...
Starting 3 in 07'
Bodden
Holly
Minter
Its much easier to have a "solid" passing defense when teams can run on you at will.
If I recall correctly we're lined up against some pretty decent passing teams in '07, similar to the rushing teams we saw in '06.
Our defensive backfield has held its own considering (no Baxter, Bodden, Cutch, etc), but its definitely not a unit to feel "comfortable" with, IMO.
We're gonna need a better pass rush if we can't get DB help.
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Holly showed me he was tons better than Ralph Brown. we need more depth or an upgrade at CB, but price for Clements and future cap managment has to be considered.
"They had it before you, They had it during you, They"ll have it after you're gone."
Al McGuire on Kentucky basketball tradition.
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stats arent the most important stat for corners honestly....i really like holly and think he will make a great corner for us....but if we can get clements then we sure as hell better do it Clements Bodden Holly and maybe cutch would be awesome
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stats arent the most important stat for corners honestly....i really like holly and think he will make a great corner for us....but if we can get clements then we sure as hell better do it Clements Bodden Holly and maybe cutch would be awesome
So why, when looking at stats for corners, the best corners are always at the top of the stats list?
Asante Samuels leads the league in interceptions. Champ Bailey is tied for #1.
There's no doubt that comparing a 1st round pick (Clements) to Holly (7th rounder) is a little unfair, but Holly played better last year than people give him credit for and how many tens-of-millions of dollars more do we want to pay in a bidding war for Clements when it could be put to more urgent needs like OL and DL?
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Hey, relax everyone!!
We still have Ralph Brown!
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Here's what I think when I see our CB situation.
Leigh Bodden...Good corner. start quality he's proved that everytime on the field. Ask Chad. Now as long as he stays on the field. We're good.
Daven Holly...This year's Leigh Bodden. I say that in all confidence. Sure he struggled a lil bit at times, but this was his first year getting extensive minutes. If anything, he's a step ahead of Bodden, because Bodden sat for 2-3 years before he got his shot.
There's our starting 2 corners right there.
Daylon McCutcheon and DeMario Minter will be our 3 and 4, and however that shakes out is fine.
If theres anywhere to improve its really at the 5th CB spot. and with Jerame Perry still young and Antonio Perkins also still young. I dont see a problem.
Our corners are fine. Lets focus elsewhere. The fact that we had 3 injuries to our 3 starters and a guy that was on the PUP then IR all year. That clouds our vision of the DB spot. We're ok there.
Lets focus our 30 mil of cap space elsewhere. DL especially. maybe a good RB, or some good OL, or even a decent QB (not to start, but I'd be completely fine paying a Drew Bledsoe starter money to tutor Charlie with the Cap space we have.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I don't want the Browns to go after a high-priced corner. I thought it was a mistake to sign Baxter for big dollars before and I think it will be a mistake to make Clements the highest paid cb in the league. With that said, I love the guy who compared Holly and Clements by using their interceptions as thee comparison.  Holly ain't close to Clements. If the Browns improve their pass rush, the secondary will look much better. Pass on signing on high-dollar cb.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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We don't want another Gary Baxter type injury. Wouldn't that be total BS if we got Clements, and he had a career ending injury?
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Quote:
With that said, I love the guy who compared Holly and Clements by using their interceptions as thee comparison. Holly ain't close to Clements.
In context, everyone is frothing at the mouth over Samuel -- the league leader in interceptions this year. Champ Bailey, also not too shabby of a CB, is tied for #1.
Holly is 4th.
Clements is in 6th place.
Thanks for making my point.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Quote:
Quote:
With that said, I love the guy who compared Holly and Clements by using their interceptions as thee comparison. Holly ain't close to Clements.
In context, everyone is frothing at the mouth over Samuel -- the league leader in interceptions this year. Champ Bailey, also not too shabby of a CB, is tied for #1.
Holly is 4th.
Clements is in 6th place.
Thanks for making my point.
#gmstrong
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Your point is ridiculous. Holly isn't close to Clements as a cb.
Using their interception totals is short-sighted. If every GM in the league was given a choice as to who he would rather have, each and every one of them would choose Clements.
I don't want the Browns to sign Clements, but Holly is not in the same class as Clements. Not even close!
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Holly = Clements ??? Holly had a good year for a 2nd year 7th round FA pick up. His play improved as the year went along. I think he will probably make the team next year. Clements numbers may not be as prolific, simply because most teams are smart enough to not go after him.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I was thinking that we are OK with the CBs too. But alot of folks keep harping on needing a corner. So, I think I'm crazy. At least someone else sees the same thing. Maybe I'm not crazy after all. Also, don't forget Fontenot, Hawkins and Leseur. Another UDFA or waiver player can also come in and make the team. Baxter could return someday too. And ,this is just my opinion, Ralph Brown did improve over the course of the season.  Starters: Bodden, McCutcheon Nickle: Holly Dime: Minter #5: Perry I feel confident that if the Browns cut ties with Baxter and Cutch, things would work out just fine. It did last season. There was a silver lining in that dark cloud of injuries.
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Quote:
Quote:
pray that Minter or Holly improves...
Holly, tied for 4th in the NFL in interceptions, is not good enough for you?
Clements
16 games, 56 solo tackles, 72 total, 3 interceptions, 1 TD, 0 Def TD
Holly
16 games, 54 solo tackles, 57 total, 5 interceptions, 1 TD, 2 Def TD
I guess you're right. Maybe someday Holly can only dream of putting up the numbers that Clements is, no matter how many more millions and millions we'd have to pay to get Clements...
EXACTLY!!  We will be okay at CB... TRUST!! Holly has earned ALL the PT he will get next year.. He did his job well for a no name..
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No one hates blowing our Cap Wad more than I do and I will use Shaff as a fine example here.. The difference between the two is that Shaff is not a top 5 LT and Clements arguably is in the top 5 of CB's... If we are going to blow big $ in FA, we need to target the players that truly warrant top $ rather than overpaying the avg. joe to step in..
JMHO
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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-JC-
I think we need debth at CB but Bodden and Holly can be our starting CB's next year if we improve the D-Line. 1) teams ran at us at will and 2) we generated almost no pass rush. QB's had all day to sit back their to pass. I don't care if we get Champ Bailey and Ty Law it's very difficult to defent when the QB can sit back thier and let the WR get open because eventually he will.
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Bodden yes, Holly, we'll see. he started to come on last year and was decent, but probably not the best we may be able to get..
Truth be known, Our lines are of greater concern for me,,, so if we had to wait another year to try and find that CB to go with Bodden (that's if Holly or someone else doesnt' step up) then I'm ok with those two guys back there... Hopefully cutch can come back and either start or provide needed depth..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Starting 3 in 07'
Bodden
Holly
Minter
And that doesn't scare the livin hell outta you?
If we could put together some semblance of a viable pass rush...no, it wouldn't scare me.
(And I'd list Perry over Minter)
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Quote:
Quote:
Starting 3 in 07'
Bodden
Holly
Minter
And that doesn't scare the livin hell outta you?
And we haven't done well... we got tore up. We did well considering what it was that we put out there, but we didn't do well overall.
This doesn't scare me at all.
I just hope Bodden stays healthy.
On a side note: It's kind of funny, but I think peoples' views of Bodden are short-sighted. He seems to get docked on his skills because of his injury situation this past year.
I'm not sure what his actual skills have to do with injuries, and I don't think he has proven yet to be 'injury prone'. When healthy, everything I've seen about this guy says Top 5 in the league. That means we have a legitimate shut down corner in this league. Anytime you have that at a minimum, you have to feel fairly decent about your group.
I think depth is the key here. Hopefully, Minter is solid and Cutch has a year or two left and is solid as well. I'd like to see Holly improve in the offseason and outright win the #2 spot.
I don't really have any interest in breaking the bank on someone.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I wasn't knockin Bodden at all... I'm one of the bigger Bodden pimps on here. I was knockin the idea that we're fine with just Holly and Minter rounding out our secondary.
Holly will be a good nickle, maybe more with more time but that hasn't been shown yet... Minter is not anything better than an unknown at this point, and I don't care what anyone says about how good he was in college... he hasn't done anything (litterally) in the NFL. He needs to prove he can get on the field for starters, then he needs to prove he belongs there.
We have one corner in Bodden and a nickle in Holly. We have no 2nd starter and Minter is our only depth.... that's not a warm & fuzzy for me.
Just the way I see it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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PPE, I wasn't necessarily making the Bodden comment toward you at all. It was just a general observation I've noticed from the posters on this board. It seems that most of the opinions on Bodden have gone from 'stud' to a 'really solid starter'. The skills are still there, he was just hurt. So it seems people are docking him for that.
I'm a big fan of his as well. Everything I've seen of him last year and when healthy this year, makes me feel like no matter the #1 receiver we are going against, we have an answer.
I agree with everything else you said. I definitely don't think the CB unit is a strength, but when you have a legit #1, that's got to put the unit in the top half of the league, in my opinion.
I think we'll find other guys to step up here too. I think improved DL and LB play will help, and I feel you can scheme and cheat to the #2 CB for help, if needed. Since we have Bodden, we can realistically do that because I feel we can leave him alone.
So I see it as a concern, but probably not as much as others on this board.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Personally if it wasn't for the fact that Pool can play some CB i would put CB at a bigger need then DL. Bodden in his 1st season as a starter was injured and we don't know for 100% that we'll be able to count on him week in and week out, IE can he handle the amount of work. With McCutcheon's age and his injury he may be done. Baxter is done, and Holly is no better then a nickel or dime back, Minter is a ?, and Brown shouldn't even be on the team.
So whats that give us, 1 good CB who we don't know for sure can handle the full time duty without being injured (Bodden), a decent nickel back (Holly) and 2 question marks in Cutch and Minter. Looks to me like we need at least 1 quality starter and probably at least 1 backup.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
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Pool can't play CB... that's why it's a huge need, hehe. He can line up there... but he's not very good at it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I dunno, Holly did awful good when he got the chance. IMO good enough to have a chance to start. If Cutch comes back, then we have three legit starters? As you said, Minter is a question mark, but somehow another player on the team or an UDFA will step up. We could have three legit starters and two legit nickle backs. That, IMO, is depth. Clements can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. Opie may have another idea, however.IMO the DL is the worst unit on the team. Spend the defensive loot and draft picks there.
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Quote:
If Cutch comes back, then we have three legit starters?
Sorry, but a 30+ year old CB coming off a season-ending injury does not constitute a starting caliber NFL CB to me
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I'm not saying it's gospel, only that it's a possibility. I know for a FACT that Ted is 39 y.o. and Roye is 34 y.o. How old is Cutch again?
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time to put up or shut up. shell out the cash for Clements or pray that Minter or Holly improves. Also, look for a CB in the draft. I say it's time to shell out for Clements. Our D is not that far from being very good, even dominating. Improve the DL, sign Clements, and get 1 more LB and we should be there on D.
So to have a dominant defense of 11 players we only need to improve the DL (3), and a LB (1) and sign a top-tier CB (1). Great, only 5 of the 11 players (45%) need replaced!
are you saying that our Safeties, LB's and Bodden are crap? I'd say that we have a foundation to build on with the D side of the ball. When I said DL, I meant the entire DL, not just one Lineman.
So a new D Line, a replacement for Willie McG, and a CB to play opposite Bodden and I'd say the D is in very good shape, barring injury. Then it's a matter of having some solid depth but we need the starters first.
I think Samuel would have been the better fit and may have cost a bit less money than Clements will.
![[Linked Image from i89.photobucket.com]](http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k233/marctheshark1969/thrandelelisafaggot.jpg)
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I'm not saying it's gospel, only that it's a possibility. I know for a FACT that Ted is 39 y.o. and Roye is 34 y.o. How old is Cutch again?
Yeah, but their jobs are to push people around in the trenches so that the LBs can make tackles.
It's much different as a corner covering guys running sub-5 50-yard dashes on every play. Corners get old, fast. Especially ones coming off major injuries.
If Cutch is even our nickel this year, I'll be surprised.
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pray that Minter or Holly improves...
Holly, tied for 4th in the NFL in interceptions, is not good enough for you?
Clements
16 games, 56 solo tackles, 72 total, 3 interceptions, 1 TD, 0 Def TD
Holly
16 games, 54 solo tackles, 57 total, 5 interceptions, 1 TD, 2 Def TD
I guess you're right. Maybe someday Holly can only dream of putting up the numbers that Clements is, no matter how many more millions and millions we'd have to pay to get Clements...
Nate Clements Career Stats:
2001 Buffalo Bills 16 63 53.0 10 1 3 48 16.0 48 1 10
2002 Buffalo Bills 16 65 52.0 13 0 6 82 13.7 42 1 13
2003 Buffalo Bills 16 62 51.0 11 0 3 54 18.0 54 1 4
2004 Buffalo Bills 16 73 53.0 20 0.5 6 77 12.8 35 1 7
2005 Buffalo Bills 16 99 78.0 21 0 2 0 0.0 0 0 11
2006 Buffalo Bills 16 70 54.0 16 0 3 80 26.7 58 1 16
TOTAL 96 432 341.0 91 1.5 23 341 14.8 58 5 61
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235204
Daven Holly Career Stats:
2005 Chicago Bears 3 2 0.0 2 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2006 Cleveland Browns 14 57 54.0 3 0 5 127 25.4 57 1 5
TOTAL 17 59 54.0 5 0 5 127 25.4 57 1 5
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/413004
Not really comparable are they! 
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Just a general comment....I don't recall very many Championship teams that got to the S.B. with subpar players/talent. You either pay for the talent to get you where you want to be or linger in mediocrity like the Cards, Lions, Jags, Jets, Texans (tho they're a newer team.), Saints for so long, Seahawks for so long, Bengals of the 90's and The Browns for the last 17 years!
Now I know we can't get everybody all at once, so maybe we get a few players to upgrade the OL and put the rest into the D to try and make it dominating.
Last edited by Rabidfan; 02/17/07 10:39 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
pray that Minter or Holly improves...
Holly, tied for 4th in the NFL in interceptions, is not good enough for you?
Clements
16 games, 56 solo tackles, 72 total, 3 interceptions, 1 TD, 0 Def TD
Holly
16 games, 54 solo tackles, 57 total, 5 interceptions, 1 TD, 2 Def TD
I guess you're right. Maybe someday Holly can only dream of putting up the numbers that Clements is, no matter how many more millions and millions we'd have to pay to get Clements...
Nate Clements Career Stats:
2001 Buffalo Bills 16 63 53.0 10 1 3 48 16.0 48 1 10
2002 Buffalo Bills 16 65 52.0 13 0 6 82 13.7 42 1 13
2003 Buffalo Bills 16 62 51.0 11 0 3 54 18.0 54 1 4
2004 Buffalo Bills 16 73 53.0 20 0.5 6 77 12.8 35 1 7
2005 Buffalo Bills 16 99 78.0 21 0 2 0 0.0 0 0 11
2006 Buffalo Bills 16 70 54.0 16 0 3 80 26.7 58 1 16
TOTAL 96 432 341.0 91 1.5 23 341 14.8 58 5 61
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235204
Daven Holly Career Stats:
2005 Chicago Bears 3 2 0.0 2 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2006 Cleveland Browns 14 57 54.0 3 0 5 127 25.4 57 1 5
TOTAL 17 59 54.0 5 0 5 127 25.4 57 1 5
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/413004
Not really comparable are they!
well, you have to start somewhere... also I'd like to know how many times holly and clements was thrown to and how many passes were caught.
Just currious.. what defines a good CB then if it's not stats? Holly has shown dramatic improvement and also just b/c they are a 7th rounder doesn't mean anything at all... More then anything it means they probably arn't going to get a lot of PT their first year. Holly I believe is going to be a solid #2 guy after almost a full season under his belt learning our D. That will help him think less and react more. (as he showed at the end of last year) He really looked comfortable in the last couple games. To me he has shown that he can be a good starter in the NFL.
I believe that we need our DL to play a lot better. That will help the confidence of the whole D. We need to replace 2-3 DL maybe keep Roye as a starter if we must... If we can get another solid playing CB to play the #3 or #4 corner either thru our rooster the draft or FA our LB's corners and safties will be way better then average in the NFL. I think we will with out any doubt be in the top 10 of the NFL if our DL can stop the run.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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