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Dawg Talker
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I agree that it is a problem of enforcement. JMO, but I think things aren't being enforced b/c we have a huge deficit from reduced tax revenue from the recession. There are not enough funds to properly secure the border and rounding up and deporting illegals is pointless if the border isn't secure.
and yet we have money to hand out to those 14 million unemployed citizens? Make it harder for illegal aliens to be here and work here and they will go elsewhere or just stay home. Look when Arizona passed SB1070... A number of them where leaving Arizona even before the law takes effect. But then again, states are trying to help make it harder for illegals to live here and the Federal Gov't is trying to stop them.. We don't need to round up and deport every illegal immigrant. We only need to make it harder for them to live here and find jobs and they will deport themselves.. If we only get half of the illegal aliens to leave, then we would have enough jobs, and if the unemployed don't want those jobs, they can fend for themselves and we can give a working visa to those who do.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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I found real numbers, rather than quoting the earlier article. There are 3.1 million job openings, and 9.2 million unemployed. Not enough jobs. People can expand their search to any job out there anywhere in the country, but it still remains that there are not enough jobs for everyone.
The real question is.. If there are so many people out of work and LOOKING for work, why are there 3.1 million OPEN jobs still, shouldn't they be filled damn near immediately?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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and yet we have money to hand out to those 14 million unemployed citizens? Make it harder for illegal aliens to be here and work here and they will go elsewhere or just stay home. Look when Arizona passed SB1070... A number of them where leaving Arizona even before the law takes effect. But then again, states are trying to help make it harder for illegals to live here and the Federal Gov't is trying to stop them.. We don't need to round up and deport every illegal immigrant. We only need to make it harder for them to live here and find jobs and they will deport themselves.. If we only get half of the illegal aliens to leave, then we would have enough jobs, and if the unemployed don't want those jobs, they can fend for themselves and we can give a working visa to those who do.
A couple questions:
JMO, they'll be an initial group that goes out of fear, but once illegals realize that a stretched thin police force isn't really going to be able to enforce this, the exodus will stop. The last measure enacted in 2007 ultimately led to an estimated 20% of illegals leaving Arizona. Is that number enough to make a dent?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/29/national/main6442729.shtml
Second, if this is so effective at creating jobs for American workers, then why has Arizona's unemployment rate stayed the same, even though illegals are leaving the state?
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and yet we have money to hand out to those 14 million unemployed citizens? Make it harder for illegal aliens to be here and work here and they will go elsewhere or just stay home.
The fear factor of a law like this only works for so long, until people realize that it can't really be enforced effectively. Then people will stop leaving. At the point when illegals stop leaving, the only solution is active enforcement and border security. And IMO, sending out 14 million unemployment checks is much, much cheaper than actively deporting millions of illegals and securing the border. Not to mention that there is no guarantee that deporting them creates many jobs for Americans.
Maybe you're right, and maybe this law will lead to a bunch of illegals leaving Arizona (not necessarily going back to Mexico; but also possibly relocating within the US). And maybe those freed up jobs will now cut unemployment. But until that happens, I remain skeptical of this as a job creation mechanism.
Last edited by tjs7; 07/08/10 07:35 AM.
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These numbers are a snapshot in time. It could be that they were filled immediately, as the numbers are from April. There is always some level of job openings. My point only is that even if all 3.1 million were filled right this second, that still leaves 11 million unemployed and no job openings left.
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These numbers are a snapshot in time. It could be that they were filled immediately, as the numbers are from April. There is always some level of job openings. My point only is that even if all 3.1 million were filled right this second, that still leaves 11 million unemployed and no job openings left.
How'd you get from a snapshot of 3 mil open jobs and 9 million unemployed to 11 million unemployed and no jobs.
9 mil - 3mil = 6 mil. And I highly doubt 5 million more lost their jobs since April.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Yeah, I'm sorry. In a later post, I showed that 9 million was a misquote by me (that is the number on unemployment). 14 million is the number of unemployed.
So 14 - 3 = 11 million unemployed even if every single job opening were filled instantly. All the numbers are from April, as those are the most recent reports I could find.
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The GOP’s Vendetta Against the Jobless
by Rick Sloan, July 2, 2010
Last week, forty Republican Senators and one Democrat blocked action on extended unemployment benefits. This week, three GOP Senators were absent for the roll call but the end result was the same — no relief for the long-term unemployed. By the time those 41 lawmakers return from their Fourth of July recess, 2 million Americans will have spent their final unemployment check.
Republicans, however, will not shed crocodile tears over the pain inflicted on the jobless. Instead they will cheer every vote cast that diminishes, delays or denies help to the 31 million Americans idled by this Grave Recession.
During the Bush administration, those same Republicans supported policies that are the proximate causes of our economic turmoil — deficit financing of tax cuts for the wealthy, deregulation of the financial market place and the de-industrialization of America in the name of free trade. But rather than accept responsibility for their own disastrous policies, the GOP started a vendetta against the jobless.
Republican attacks on America’s jobless are neither random acts of meanness nor the ravings of a lunatic fringe. They are hostile acts in a partisan strategy. By attacking the powerless, Republican lawmakers hoped to align their party with the powerful, capture control of the next Congress and, ultimately, win back the White House.
Occasionally, Republican law makers telegraph their deep disdain for the unemployed. Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY) did so with his one-man filibuster against extended unemployment. Senator John Kyl (R-TX) suggested unemployment acted as “a disincentive for them to seek new work.” Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) felt the jobless should be drug tested in order to qualify for unemployment insurance. And Congressman Dean Heller (R-NV) used the word “hobos” to demean those on unemployment.
And yet, their actions speak louder than their words. In sixty-five roll call votes, GOP lawmakers announced their policy for the unemployed: Forgetaboutit!
Starting with their vehement opposition to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, House and Senate Republicans cast 1,477 votes against that jobs bill and 44 votes in support! Thirty-five of those 44 votes cast opposed motions to recommit. So, the single largest job creation bill in American history drew nine Republican votes — three each from Senators Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins and Arlen Specter. And that was it — only 9 votes in support of the jobless out of 1,521 votes cast by the Grand Old Party of Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover.
An identical pattern appears on the Commerce, Justice Appropriations bill for Fiscal Year 2010 which dealt, in part, with unemployment insurance and COBRA. Across 33 roll call votes conducted in both chambers, Republicans cast 4,191 votes in opposition and only 239 votes in support of the measure. The GOP’s vendetta was unrelenting.
And when Democrats sought a two-month extension of unemployment benefits and the COBRA subsidy in April, the GOP forced eight procedural votes in the Senate. Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) caused his caucus to cast 323 votes against helping the unemployed. Only three Republican Senators cast votes to aid the jobless.
Not surprisingly, when a five month extension of benefits to the unemployed moved through the Congress, the GOP assault grew even more vicious and lopsided. So far, the Tax Extender Act, which is theoretically still under consideration, drew 1,199 hundred GOP votes against helping the jobless. Just 35 GOP votes were recorded for the jobless.
On all four measures — each a vital lifeline for the unemployed — Republicans in both chambers cast 7,291 votes against the jobless and only 371 to help them. Democrats cast 10,440 votes to help the jobless and 568 votes to harm them. The contrast between the two parties could not be more striking.
Not once, but 65 times, did the Grand Old Party stick a stiletto in the back of America’s unemployed and underemployed. Those repeated thrusts, crimes not of passion but of cold-blooded revenge, were pay back for their having lost the White House and control of Congress.
Republican lawmakers knew that the surge voters of 2008 — blue collar workers without a high school diploma, African-Americans, Latinos, union members and college students — were experiencing the highest rates of unemployment. So with each vote they cast, the GOP gave that stiletto a sharp twist.
Then insults were added to injuries. And when the jobless did not respond with an eye for an eye, Republican lawmakers thought they were getting away with murder. They thought that the jobless were clueless, that no one noticed their fingerprints all over the Congressional Record. But they were dead wrong.
Starting a blood feud with the 31 million Americans idled in this Grave Recession was a strategic mistake by the GOP. True, the jobless are angry and frustrated. They are also survivors. And, even though many of them will go hungry tonight, they know this: revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Come Election Day, the GOP’s vendetta against the jobless could produce a blood bath, just not the one that Republican lawmakers expected.
web page
The game the GOP is playing could backfire, bigtime. Most Americans realize it was the GOP that created this mess, THE GREAT RECESSION, that lead to their layoffs and now when those laid off workers need help from an UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE PROGRAM, the GOP tells American workers to GO TO HELL.
The GOP loves to play "political games" with the lives of America's working class, preferring to put their foot on the heads of those in need and shoving them under. Why the GOP is anti-American worker, is beyond me...how they get away with it is even further beyond me.
We sure could use those 3 million manufacturing jobs Shrub and the GOP sent to China...ya think?
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Mac, why won;t you answer my questions?
You keep posting the same crap .... yet you are unwilling or (far, far more likely) unable to answer the simplest questions about an issue that you are so vehement about.
Why is that mac?
Why?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Mac, answer a question. I'll give you an easy one..What color is the sky?
#gmstrong
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Mac, why won;t you answer my questions?
You keep posting the same crap .... yet you are unwilling or (far, far more likely) unable to answer the simplest questions about an issue that you are so vehement about.
Why is that mac?
Why?
You know, on a MMA forum I frequent there was an account that would jump in and defend all UFC actions and would be very negative toward all other MMA organizations. This went on for years. In the end users on the board were able to piece together contradictions in the users posts and through an inside contact they found out it was in fact an account set up by people paid by the UFC to spread propaganda. And it wasn't just one person posting it was multiple persons hence the contradictions.
I'm beginning to fathom that mac is in fact a mole for the DNC. I mean think about it, he never answers questions, he only posts pro-DNC articles. If you happen to post a pro-GOP article he will immediately post a con-GOP article from a left leaning news source to counter your article.
Then lets take the fact that a few months back he claimed he was a member of the GOP two years ago but left because they weren't conservative enough only to join a party that is even less conservative than the one he left. And add into the fact that mac has been posting on this and the original dawgtalk for more than two years and I can't think of any point in time he was even remotely pro-GOP.
Some food for thought as he continues to ignore your questions but I dare you to post a Pro-GOP article and watch him come in and either post a rebuttal article or attack the credibility of the Pro-GOP article's source/writer without any merit to his accusations.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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Mac is no Coach B...He isn't bright enough.
#gmstrong
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I'm beginning to fathom that mac is in fact a mole for the DNC. I mean think about it, he never answers questions, he only posts pro-DNC articles. If you happen to post a pro-GOP article he will immediately post a con-GOP article from a left leaning news source to counter your article.
If he is, then he is the absolute worst mole in the history of the world. If his job is to try to spread understanding, compassion, and support for democratic causes then he is failing miserably because from what I've seen... all his abrasive and evasive style of posting has done is galvanize conservatives and republicans against him and what he stands for.
If mac is a mole, hopefully he is a mole for the GOP, because that is the group he is helping the most.
yebat' Putin
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What he does is pretty classic. He ignores your questions, wait until it is burried a few pages back and he comes right back with another article to try and reinforce his agenda. He isn't a champion for the cause and he doesn't wants to debate to show you how you are wrong and he is right. He just spreads DNC talking points and when you post a GOP article he will say things like "OMG, you really didn't post that from "FOX News" or "[insert article author here] is a Neocon lap dog".
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Not that I am any great fan of the GOP lately, but maybe we can get mac to take his show on the national stage.
he can post stuff, then run and hide when other people tear his posts and arguments into shreds. Then he can post another article.
Face it ... mac has followed the Democrat playbook to a T. Class warfare ..... Evil GOP doesn't care about people ..... War ...... "Bush's fault" no matter what ...... and so on. It's almost like reading a script for a liberal fantasy movie ... or a left leaning wet dream.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Mac, why won;t you answer my questions?
You keep posting the same crap .... yet you are unwilling or (far, far more likely) unable to answer the simplest questions about an issue that you are so vehement about.
Why is that mac?
Why?
He's a insipid flapjaw?
As I said yesterday, they now have welfare to support them.
What's the problem??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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mac, what have the dems done to create jobs?
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mac, what have the dems done to create jobs?
They probably increased their legal departments so they can sue the individual States. 
They have probably added a few more aides to the White House, hired more people at the IRS to help find the rich people not carrying their weight, and to the treasury to help figure out which friends to pass the tax dollars out to.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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J/C At this point I think Mac is honestly a republican working very hard to make democrats look bad. Think about it for a moment... 
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They probably increased their legal departments so they can sue the individual States.
Now that's funny!
#gmstrong
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J/C
At this point I think Mac is honestly a republican working very hard to make democrats look bad. Think about it for a moment...
That can be the only explanation ... that or labotomy. 
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Here is the other really freakin' amazing part.
The $109 billion bill would have extended through Nov. 30 unemployment benefits that were made available in the 2009 stimulus package. Without congressional action, the Department of Labor estimated payments will expire for 200,000 people a week. In Nevada, benefits will be exhausted for 1,600 people by this weekend.
This bill ..... which would cost $109 BILLION ...... would extend benefits for 200,000 people for 5 months.
Really?
so we need a $109 BILLION bill to pay for a total of 1 MILLION benefit checks? (200,000 X 5 months = 1,000,000 total checks for those Democrats playing along at home) How much are we giving the unemployed nowadays? 
More DemocraP math at work. 
ytown and the anti Obama boys....I just looked at the bill that the GOP shot down on their way out the door for their 4th of July vacation...YOU BOYS ARE SURE USING SOME FUZZY MATH.
Care to look up the Bill that all but 2 GOP Senators last voted down?
Had Senator Byrd not passed away, the Bill would have passed with two GOP Senators voting with the Dems.
Let me know when you get your facts and numbers straight...OK?
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Why don't you prove their facts aren't correct. Or don't they show you numbers over on the Huffington Post?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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mac hasd no numbers. I'd bet a million dollars that mac didn't even read the bill that was voted down.
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mac hasd no numbers. I'd bet a million dollars that mac didn't even read the bill that was voted down.
Thanks for the set up...This is even too easy for me.
#gmstrong
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Deflection: Come in, claim others are wrong, tell them to go look up facts that you yourself don't have. Make other accusations. Leave without answering a question that you don't want to answer.
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Mac, I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions.
If you are unable or unwilling to answer them, just say so. Don't beat around the bush.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c If I was his dad, I would have kicked him out of the house. and yet people complain there are no jobs out there for them.. Guy turns down a $40k a year job out of college GRAFTON, Mass. — After breakfast, his parents left for their jobs, and Scott Nicholson, alone in the house in this comfortable suburb west of Boston, went to his laptop in the living room. He had placed it on a small table that his mother had used for a vase of flowers until her unemployed son found himself reluctantly stuck at home. The daily routine seldom varied. Mr. Nicholson, 24, a graduate of Colgate University, winner of a dean’s award for academic excellence, spent his mornings searching corporate Web sites for suitable job openings. When he found one, he mailed off a résumé and cover letter — four or five a week, week after week. Over the last five months, only one job materialized. After several interviews, the Hanover Insurance Group in nearby Worcester offered to hire him as an associate claims adjuster, at $40,000 a year. But even before the formal offer, Mr. Nicholson had decided not to take the job. Rather than waste early years in dead-end work, he reasoned, he would hold out for a corporate position that would draw on his college training and put him, as he sees it, on the bottom rungs of a career ladder. “The conversation I’m going to have with my parents now that I’ve turned down this job is more of a concern to me than turning down the job,” he said. He was braced for the conversation with his father in particular. While Scott Nicholson viewed the Hanover job as likely to stunt his career, David Nicholson, 57, accustomed to better times and easier mobility, viewed it as an opportunity. Once in the door, the father has insisted to his son, opportunities will present themselves — as they did in the father’s rise over 35 years to general manager of a manufacturing company. “You maneuvered and you did not worry what the maneuvering would lead to,” the father said. “You knew it would lead to something good.”
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Mac, I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions.
If you are unable or unwilling to answer them, just say so. Don't beat around the bush.
ytow..I just looked at the bill that the GOP shot down on their way out the door for their 4th of July vacation...YOU BOYS ARE SURE USING SOME FUZZY MATH.
Care to look up the Bill that all but 2 GOP Senators last voted down?
When you look up the bill, then we can talk about your math..ok?
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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You could just post a link to the bill, show him the numbers and tell him where he is wrong. That is normally how a debate works.
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Mac has no idea how to debate. He has no idea how to answer questions. He will not examine anything in detail, rather preferring to rely upon written reports by favored left leaning blogs as his Bible.
It really is quite sad.
As far as the bill, I have gone through the bill. It is a combination of some tax cut extensions, and some other tax provisions. There is nothing in it about creating jobs. (Which, dummy me, I was expecting in a "Job" bill)
And mac cannot cite any job provisions .... because there is nothing that creates jobs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Or you could do what EVERY OTHER POSTER on this MB does and just tell us why you think we are wrong. But then that would be very much like you offering an opinion, which we all know ain't going to happen.
yebat' Putin
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More importantly, he would have to back up opinion with a factual basis ..... and that is light years beyond his ability.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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More importantly, he would have to back up opinion with a factual basis ..... and that is light years beyond his ability.
And that sums it up...the guy is incapable to form a opinion of his own and stand on his own two legs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You could just post a link to the bill, show him the numbers and tell him where he is wrong. That is normally how a debate works.
free...how hard is it for YTown to look up the bill?
I know it's easier to just pull bogus numbers out of his butt...
...but, as I said, his math is shrublike fuzzy to the point of being factually dishonest.
Bottom line...the GOP would rather give money to unemployed Iraqis for 7 yrs than help out American workers in need, due the GREAT RECESSION, that Bush and the GOP created....now that IS a fact.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I have looked at the bill mac.
Have you?
Be honest now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Come on mac.... specifics. No posts from blog sites ... no liberal garbage ...... look at the bill yourself ..... using your own 2 eyes ..... and pull something .... ANYTHING out of the bill that creates jobs.
Take a stand. Be a man. Actually THINK for a change rather than being a parrot.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,928
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,928 |
Quote:
I have looked at the bill mac.
Have you?
Be honest now.
Oops - you asked him a question. Next we'll get an article from the huffing and puffington post, or an "opinion" from a democrat.
Meanwhile, O is licking his chops waiting for the tax increases to come so he can kill more jobs. Hoping the VAT comes to pass so he can kill more jobs, hoping the cap and trade passes so EVERYONE will be on the public dole.
And mac's cheering his head off too.
Answer any questions lately mac?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061 |
You should really stick to something you know about like football. Nevermind, you don't know about football either.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
Quote:
You could just post a link to the bill, show him the numbers and tell him where he is wrong. That is normally how a debate works.
free...how hard is it for YTown to look up the bill?
I know it's easier to just pull bogus numbers out of his butt...
...but, as I said, his math is shrublike fuzzy to the point of being factually dishonest.
Bottom line...the GOP would rather give money to unemployed Iraqis for 7 yrs than help out American workers in need, due the GREAT RECESSION, that Bush and the GOP created....now that IS a fact.
Perhaps you need to start posting your proof to back up what you are saying than just continuing to pull opinions off of the web that you don't even back up. Perhaps if you feel that this issue is so important, why don't you form and state your own opinions rather than pressing CTRL-C and CTRL-V....
and since you want to play with facts.. where is your proof that where we are in the recession is all Bush's Fault? and why is it that we are 2 years into this new administration, that it is still Bush's fault we are still in it?
Furthermore, if you want to extend all these benefits.. where do you expect the money to come from?
Pennsylvania alone is in debt to the Federal Gov't for $3 Billion with a B to hand out to the unemployed... That is only 1 state... Where do we get the money? From the ever-growing debt that the Democrats harped on for being TOOOOO BIG??? That is where they are getting it from... We cannot continue at this pace.
Pennsylvania runs up $3Billion debt for unemployment compensation
People who have been unemployed for 2 years should have had plenty of chances by now to find some sort of work and a way to support themselves.. If you look around on forums, they are crying, not so much because they don't have a job, but because they aren't getting money from the gov't to allow them to keep their cars and houses.. and they cry about trying to make ends meet on a $9 an hour salary. But at some point, they are going to have to try making it at $9 an hour working 20 hours a week or working 2 jobs.. instead of feeling entitled that they need help. and if you read a story I posted further up here.. one kid declined a $40k job just because he didnt like it and felt it went nowhere.. Of course, there will be those who won't be able to find anything, but we simply cannot continue to support them time after time... If we continue this, we'll continue to be having this debate.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Republicans Thwart Bill With
Unemployment Aid, "AGAIN"
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