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http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/28/10/Co...amp;feedID=3724BEREA — The Browns finished on a four game winning streak to end the 2009 season and finish 5-11. The streak most likely saved the job of Eric Mangini. In those games the Browns completed a total of just 31 passes (6, 10, 8 and 7, respectively). Meanwhile, they rushed for 171-, 351-, 164- and 214 yards. Many NFL teams complete 31 passes in one game—let alone four. The rushing attack was so dominant in those games that the Browns were able to play the ball control style of offense that Mangini dreams about. It is no secret the Browns hope to carry on their late season rushing success. Here are the candidates as the Browns head to training camp. Jerome Harrison — (5-9, 205) - Harrison was the second coming of Adrian Peterson in the last three games. He totaled 561 yards in the three games with five touchdowns. He carried the ball 34 times for 286 yards and three touchdowns against the Chiefs and then had 39 carries for 148 yards and a score against the Raiders. He finished the season with 33 carries for 127 yards and a touchdown against the Jaguars. But can he do it for a whole season? Harrison finished the season with 862 yards on 194 carries and five touchdowns. He also tied for the team lead with 34 receptions for 220 yards and two touchdowns. A fifth-round draft choice in the 2006 NFL Draft, Harrison was never really given a chance to play on a regular basis in his first three seasons despite averaging 4.8 yards a carry and 7.1 per reception. The knock on him has been his lack of picking up the blitz on passing downs, but Mangini said he has improved immensely in the area. Most fans felt Harrison showed in the final stretch of the season he could be the feature back, but the Browns traded up in the second-round to draft Montario Hardesty. Montario Hardesty — (6-0, 225) - Hardesty has been used with the first team in the OTAs and the minicamps and seems to be a very real possibility to be the Browns feature running back this season. A second-round draft choice on a 5-11 team would usually start, but when a team trades up in the second-round to get a player, it means they really like the player a lot. The knock on Hardesty at Tennessee was that he was injury-prone, but Hardesty rushed the ball 282 times last season in college. The Browns are counting on Hardesty to be able to be a big contributor this season. Peyton Hillis — (6-1 250) - Hillis is in his third year from Arkansas. He was a seventh-round draft choice of the Broncos in 2008. He led the Broncos in rushing in 2008 in 12 games before a hamstring injury put him on injured reserve. He ended his rookie season with 343 yards and five touchdowns. He also caught 14 receptions for 179 yards with one touchdown. Hillis came over in the Brady Quinn trade and he’s the type of player that Mangini likes. He’s versatile as he can play running back, fullback, catch passes out of the backfield, play in goal line and short yardage situations. Lawrence Vickers was the only fullback on the roster in 2009 and Hillis can serve as a backup fullback if Vickers were to go down. He blocked for Darren McFadden and Felix Jones while at Arkansas. In 2010, Hillis only had 20 carries for 77 yards and one touchdown to go with five receptions and 57 yards. James Davis — (5-11, 218) - Davis was taken in the sixth-round of the 2008 NFL Draft. He had an outstanding preseason and looked as though he was might emerge as a feature back, but was shelved for the season after suffering a shoulder injury on Oct. 3 in an after practice ‘opportunity’ session. Davis had just nine carries for 15 yards and four receptions for five yards. The Clemson product exploded for an 80-yard run against the Lions in the preseason. Chris Jennings — (5-10, 218) - Jennings came out of nowhere as he was signed as a free agent after the Montreal Alouettes for the CFL released him. Jennings was able to take advantage of Davis’ injury and ended up with 220 yards on 63 carries with one touchdown. In addition, Jennings had nine receptions for 56 yards. Jennings biggest contribution was a 20 carry, 73-yard rushing game to help the Browns defeat the Steelers on Dec. 10. Lawrence Vickers — (6-0, 250) - Vickers is the only true fullback on the roster. During the final stretch of the season when the Browns were rushing so well, Vickers was blocking at a Pro Bowl level. He vowed during minicamp that he will make teams regret not voting him to the Pro Bowl last season. Vickers, along with Harrison, were late round finds by Phil Savage in the 2006 draft as Vickers was taken in the sixth-round. Vickers finished last season with no carries, but had eight receptions for 27 yards and a score. In his career, Vickers has carried the ball 28 times for 76 yards and has 37 receptions for 256 yards and three touchdowns. It will all depend on preseason production, but the running back position should be quite a battle. It seems that Harrison, Hardesty and Vickers are locks, but beyond that it’s hard to figure. It would seem that between Hillis, Davis and Jennings, there would only be two roster spots at the most and maybe just one. Hillis would have the inside track because of his versatility. It would appear that Davis would have an edge over Jennings. If the Browns were sold on Davis, I doubt they would have drafted Hardesty as highly as they did.
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There are so many errors in this article it's sad.
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The RB battle will be one to watch not just in the training camp/pre-season but during the regular season as well. The way I see it, Jerome Harrison is the present and Montario Hardesty is the future. This year we'll either see the continued boom of Harrison, or the emergence of Hardesty, maybe even a bit of both.
James Davis is a player I'd like to see around, if he gets a chance I hope he can make the most of it, last year he looked like he could've been the top back on the team but now its not so certain.
Hillis will play a more important role in the offense than Davis, but I also see Hillis as a more diverse threat as opposed to a straight running-back. He can play FB/RB, he can be a pass-catching threat out of the backfield as well. I would say that for Hillis he doesn't have to worry so much about producing big numbers on the run so much as he just needs to make big plays for us.
Regardless of who emerges as the main threat out of our backfield, Lawrence Vickers will play a pivotal role in that as one of the premier run-blocking FB's in the entire NFL. He was very crucial to the success of our running game last year and he will continue to be crucial to that success for our team in 2010.
Our RB/FB situation is one of the few aspects of our team I feel is "good" where it's at. As far as camp goes, I think its Davis vs Jennings as far as 'who will make the team?' My money is on Davis.
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Quote:
There are so many errors in this article it's sad.
Can you name a few just so we all know what you are talking about?
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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James Davis was drafted last year, not '08. That's the only thing that jumped out at me as I skimmed it.
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James Davis was drafted last year, not '08. That's the only thing that jumped out at me as I skimmed it.
Yeah, I was gonna say... didn't see that error filled to me... Oh well, to each his own I guess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
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There are so many errors in this article it's sad.
Can you name a few just so we all know what you are talking about?
"In 2010, Hillis only had 20 carries for 77 yards and one touchdown to go with five receptions and 57 yards."
I think this is incorrect. Not just the year, but the carries and yards etc too.
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According to both NFL.com and ESPN.com Hillis had 13 carries for 54 yards 1 TD and 4 receptions for 19 yards.
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The Browns usually get talent ...not the best but talent like Harrison. We just must develop our players and give them a chance. With our improved Oline Harrison was just the right back to carry us to four wins. Now can we continue?
Davis is very good along with Harrison we should be in good shape. I don't know about Hillis or Hardesty. I do know We have the Hs covered.
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I'm intrigued by Hardesty & I think he and Jerome will each get lots of touches, but I say keep giving JH the ball until he proves he is as fragile as everyone says he is.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I want to see Hillis and Hardesty.
I think both are total beasts who can bruise people.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Well that could be... but almost every time Jerome has been asked to produce, he has, and hasn't been carted off the field, either. Yeah I guess his blocking sucked until he got it through his head that he had to (i.e. he wasn't a willing blocker) but JH has made plays for us... and I'm not just talking about his three-game finish to 2009 - he'd shown flashes prior to that but wasn't ever the No.1 guy, even short-term.
gmstrong -----------------
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I want to see Hillis and Hardesty.
I think both are total beasts who can bruise people.
Everyone, myself included, seems to be forgetting James Davis.. Somehow, someway, I can't help feeling that we are gonna be able to run the the ball this year.. effectively
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I want to see Hillis and Hardesty.
I think both are total beasts who can bruise people.
Everyone, myself included, seems to be forgetting James Davis.. Somehow, someway, I can't help feeling that we are gonna be able to run the the ball this year.. effectively
13 touches for 20 yards is easily forgettable.
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Personally, I'm more concerned about 13 touches, out for the year.
I think that the kid has NFL talent ....... but may get lost in the pileup at RB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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I want to see Hillis and Hardesty.
I think both are total beasts who can bruise people.
Everyone, myself included, seems to be forgetting James Davis.. Somehow, someway, I can't help feeling that we are gonna be able to run the the ball this year.. effectively
13 touches for 20 yards is easily forgettable.
What's your point,, he was injured and missed the season.., But before that injury (and yes, it was preseason) he was doing a damn fine job.
I'm interested to see if there is really anything there or if that was a fluke!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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He was doing a "damn fine job"???? Really??? He had 9 carries for 15 yards, which is a 1.7 average. He had 4 receptions for 5 yards. Please elaborate on how this demonstrates that he was doing a "damn fine job." Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, you meant in AUGUST didn't you???? Yep, he did a damn fine job in August.  Odd man out in 2010, don't buy the jersey! 
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He was doing a "damn fine job"????
Really???
He had 9 carries for 15 yards, which is a 1.7 average.
He had 4 receptions for 5 yards.
Please elaborate on how this demonstrates that he was doing a "damn fine job."
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, you meant in AUGUST didn't you???? Yep, he did a damn fine job in August.
Odd man out in 2010, don't buy the jersey!
Yeah, I mean preseason,. I even said so in my post.. and you say I was dropped on my head 
Just so you know,, this is the kinda thing I was referring too.. and YES, it was preseason...
http://www.youtube.com/v/mL7LQgl07lE
It's up to you, but I think predictions of his demise are a tiny bit premature..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Yeah, I mean preseason,. I even said so in my post.. and you say I was dropped on my head
I was fully aware you said preseason, hence me alluding to it in my post. And yes, I am completely sure you were dropped on your head. Probably more than once.
Thanks, but I'm not viewing a video of a NFLers exploits in August.
With the additions of Hardesty and Hillis this makes J Davis the odd man out. The backs will be Harrison, Jennings, Hardesty, Hillis and Vickers.
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I agree. Hope we see a variety of skills. Better competition at RB is important. Barking up the same ol' tree; I think scheme is vital. Hope we gear a playbook to take advantage of some strengths, not just mold the player to a schematic. We draft deep people, and cannot and will not throw to them We have a powerback and run the middle behind a line that can't get the silly lack of variety whipped, as in middle, middle again, and drop, or sack or fumble.
I want a power run game, and I want a vertical passing attack that threaten people. Not much to prep for. The offense definitely lagged the defense most of last year. We need to do some things offensively to hurt some people. Got to have the bench "vision" thing and get after more people on O. Hardesty may be key.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Yeah, I mean preseason,. I even said so in my post.. and you say I was dropped on my head
I was fully aware you said preseason, hence me alluding to it in my post. And yes, I am completely sure you were dropped on your head. Probably more than once.
Thanks, but I'm not viewing a video of a NFLers exploits in August.
With the additions of Hardesty and Hillis this makes J Davis the odd man out. The backs will be Harrison, Jennings, Hardesty, Hillis and Vickers.
LOL You are wrong about me being dropped on my head.. if you don't want to watch a player make a great play,, that's your call..
And as far as who will remain at the end of camp, your guess is as good as anyones.. but then, according to you, August doesn't matter so Harrison, Hillis, Hardesty and Jennings could have spectacular Augusts and any one of them could be cut... That's if you are right at all about August.... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I just looked at Mangini's history as far as keeping RBs, and I think that if we are to keep more than 3, that 4th guy better be a special teams demon. He usually seems to stock up on WR/LB/DB for special teams.
In 2009 he kept 3 RB and 1 FB, and 3 TE
In 2008 (Jets) 2 RB, 1 FB, 3 TE
In 2007 (Jets) 2 RB, 2 FB/TE types, 2 TE
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The good news is that we may very well get some value out of whatever RB we choose not to keep. How's that for a change of pace? I'm pretty well convinced whoever we cut will get a look from someone else.
Competition is good. I don't care who makes the roster as long as they get us some competitive football and subsequent wins.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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The good news is that we may very well get some value out of whatever RB we choose not to keep. How's that for a change of pace? I'm pretty well convinced whoever we cut will get a look from someone else.
I'm confused, if we cut him, how do we get value from him?
yebat' Putin
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Unless we keep all of them beyond the cut down to the 53, we won't get a damned thing.
The lone possible exception is if we have multiple teams wanting to trade for the same guy.... other than that solitary scenario, everyone will just wait for cutdowns.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Well .. we have depth for the pre-season anyway. Who knows what happens. Maybe another team has their RB go down and we get calls for Davis or Jennings? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think James Davis has been Speegled a bit by the DawgTalkers community. Late round draft pick that looks the part and has all the talkers up in arms that he's a steal waiting to happen.
I dunno if Davis is legit or not but when I look at him. all I see is William Green. North-south hard charger with a little wiggle but not a sharp cut guy.
With the backs we have on the roster, I think it would be surprising if Davis beats out Hillis as really, that's what this amounts to. Hardisty, Harrison and Vickers are locks. I think Hillis gets the upper hand as he can play both RB and FB.
That being said, if Davis studs out all training camp and preseason, I'd be happy to see it!
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Davis should be very good...he was compared to Jamal Lewis in H.S. (actually beat his records). He definately looked good in preseason and should be better after working with Lewis. I think we are in very good shape at RB...we should be worried about depth at WR.
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Davis should be very good...he was compared to Jamal Lewis in H.S. (actually beat his records). He definately looked good in preseason and should be better after working with Lewis. I think we are in very good shape at RB...we should be worried about depth at WR.
What he did in high school means precisely jack squat to be perfectly honest. I'd like to see him comeback and be a wrecking ball but, right now, I think the odds are against him.
You're right about WR though.... The coaches may be confident but I'd feel better if we signed a vet. kevin Curtis is still out there isn't he? Is he still hurt?
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Hardesty has to stay healthy, AND keep his head on straight while busting his butt before we can consider him. Healthy....??? Head on straight...??? Busting his butt so far...
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Davis will be 3rd on the hb depth chart.. although he probably wont see much playing time b/c hillis is penciled in as FB, but will play like a hb.
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You're right about how Hillis will play. I'm a Hillis fan and have been for several years. I think he is a beast as a runner, but he is one outstanding receiver, too. I think I would like to see the Browns give him a look at tight end if the running back situation is as good as I am reading. But I sure would miss seeing him knock some db's out from under their helmets/
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I think James Davis has been Speegled a bit by the DawgTalkers community. Late round draft pick that looks the part and has all the talkers up in arms that he's a steal waiting to happen.
I dunno if Davis is legit or not but when I look at him. all I see is William Green. North-south hard charger with a little wiggle but not a sharp cut guy.
With the backs we have on the roster, I think it would be surprising if Davis beats out Hillis as really, that's what this amounts to. Hardisty, Harrison and Vickers are locks. I think Hillis gets the upper hand as he can play both RB and FB.
That being said, if Davis studs out all training camp and preseason, I'd be happy to see it!
Your analogy of Davis to William Green is quite strange, Canada as green was a tap dancer with no power and not a North south slasher. Davis showed some pop, my guess is he beats out the "ham sandwich" Hillis.
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"Davis should be very good...he was compared to Jamal Lewis in H.S."
I'm convinced now.
Yes,I was dropped on my head aas a baby,and have taken repeated blows since.So you want to take my views with a grain of salt.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I think James Davis has been Speegled a bit by the DawgTalkers community. Late round draft pick that looks the part and has all the talkers up in arms that he's a steal waiting to happen.
I dunno if Davis is legit or not but when I look at him. all I see is William Green. North-south hard charger with a little wiggle but not a sharp cut guy.
With the backs we have on the roster, I think it would be surprising if Davis beats out Hillis as really, that's what this amounts to. Hardisty, Harrison and Vickers are locks. I think Hillis gets the upper hand as he can play both RB and FB.
That being said, if Davis studs out all training camp and preseason, I'd be happy to see it!
Your analogy of Davis to William Green is quite strange, Canada as green was a tap dancer with no power and not a North south slasher. Davis showed some pop, my guess is he beats out the "ham sandwich" Hillis.
Green was a north-south runner....Unfortunately, he didn't make the transition to the pro game well and if the primary hole didn;t stay open, he got indecisive.
From what I've seen thus far, Davis is a similar player.... gives a quick burst to the hole but not great top end speed. Some wiggle but not a hard cut kinda guy.
Granted, we still haven't seen alot of Davis yet but what I have seen...William Green. JMHO.
I know you have a hate for Ham Sandwich Hillis, but looking at his performances, he's proven more than Davis to this point at HB and can also play FB. I think Davis will have to show up huge to bump Hillis from the roster.
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Maybe North-South is a confusing term...or hell, I may be misusing it. Call it "downhill" runner then.
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You have a pretty accurate assessment of how Hillis works, both as a RB and as an FB. He looks people up to hit and/or run over. Ironically, Hillis has never had a good FB to block for him. Shanahan brought in a guard on short yardage and goal line situations. Hillis and Vickers could create a real run on ibuprofin if they got the chance, because they will be delivering headaches!
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not sure if this has been posted yet.......... Quote:
Hardesty-Harrison battle includes awkward off-field dynamic
Posted by Mike Florio on July 12, 2010 3:32 PM ET
We pointed out earlier today that agent Mitch Frankel says that Browns running back Jerome Harrison doesn't plan to hold out of training camp, presumably due at least in part to the reality that his absence would give rookie second-rounder Montario Hardesty a crack at cracking the starting lineup.
Hardesty also is expected to be signed by the time training camp opens, according to his agent, Mitch Frankel.
And, no, there are not two NFL agents named Mitch Frankel.
Agents routinely steer clear of representing incoming draft picks who play the same position and who are believed to be in line to be picked at about the same time. The NFLPA places no such requirement on agents; as best we can tell, agents police themselves when it comes to these potential conflicts of interest, possibly because it would be very easy for other agents to swoop in and point out the obvious problems that will arise if, for example, the agent represents both Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf -- and the team with the first pick is wrestling with whether to take one or the other.
But the sensitivity to potential conflicts of interest has not spread beyond the phenomenon of players at the same position and in the same immediate expected draft range. For example, CAA has represented two of the top three picks in three straight drafts. In each draft, the players played different positions.
Potential conflicts of interest also arise after the dust of the draft settles. Last year, David Dunn had to tiptoe through the two-deep quarterback depth chart in New York, since he represented both Kellen Clemens and newcomer Mark Sanchez. But Sanchez wasn't selected No. 5 overall to sit the bench, making it easier for Clemens to accept the fact that his agent wouldn't be doing everything he could to press the team to give Clemens a chance to play.
It's much more of a toss-up at the tailback position, where more and more teams use multiple guys each game.
So how can Frankel effectively lobby for more touches for Harrison if that would result in fewer touches for Hardesty, and vice-versa? And how can Frankel push for incentives in Hardesty's rookie deal based on playing time and/or rushing yards if the pursuit of those numbers (which would result in a bigger fee for Frankel) would reduce Harrison's playing time and/or rushing yards?
Though some may react to the situation by shrugging and saying that the agent can't really influence the coaching staff, that doesn't change the fact that every player needs an agent who will try to influence the coaching staff. With Frankel representing both Harrison and Hardesty, there's nothing the agent can say to help one client that won't necessarily run counter to the interests of the other client.
(Also, we're not prepared to conclude that agents can't influence coaches. We've encountered more than a few agents who are great salespeople for their clients, raising excellent issues and sharing pertinent stats and otherwise making a great verbal case to supplement the often razor-thin differences presented by practice reps and game films.)
Bottom line? Harrison and Hardesty simply can't both be getting the best possible representation in this instance. Either their agent won't be doing enough to help them, or by helping one he'll be hurting the other.
Permalink 17 Comments Latest stories in: Cleveland Browns, Latest News and Rumors, NFL Mobile Exclusives - Rumors, Top Stories
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
run them both more.. and don't pass as much.. simple!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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