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Wasn't sure if this belonged here or in the draft thread... Browns hoping to again hit 13 Sunday, February 18, 2007 BROWNS BEAT STEVE DOERSCHUK The world is full of irony, including this NFL Draft contribution from 76 Lou Groza Boulevard: So miserably jinxed in first rounds, the Browns may have hit the jackpot with a No. 13 overall pick. Lucky No. 13 was Kamerion Wimbley. He is worth a winter review as the latest draft season heats up. Every other Round 1 pick the Browns have made in the new era inspires a cynical thought- association game: Tim Couch. Benched for, it turns out, Buffalo’s backup QB. Courtney Brown. M*A*S*H* Gerard Warren. “Wasted Money.†William Green. They cut Ben Gay for this? Jeff Faine. Not as good as the center New England got in Round 5. Kellen Winslow Jr. No Evel Knievel. Braylon Edwards. No Ted Ginn Jr. Then there’s Wimbley. Mr. No. 13 Overall tempted fate by wearing No. 95. Jamir Miller wore 95 to a Pro Bowl five Februarys ago, blew out an Achilles in the 2002 preseason and never played again. Wimbley, however: Played all 16 games. Made short work of the transition from college end to 3-4 linebacker. Delivered 11 sacks, matching Courtney Brown’s total through his first three seasons. Earned an “A†or close in the subjects of hustle, humility, heart and hope. Flashed entertaining moves and quickness. Winslow and Edwards might work out, too. At this point, though, who would trade Wimbley for either of them? Who knew a year ago that Wimbley would be a draft hit? As we prepare to meet this year’s Wimbley wannabes at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis, we recall how Wimbley presented himself at last year’s workout. We recall how perceptions can change. Where did he think he’d be picked? “Right now,†Wimbley said then, “the predictions are late first, early second round. Of course, I’d like to be selected in the first round.†That begs the question: Could Phil Savage have traded down to maybe No. 20 and still landed the guy? A reasonable answer: Just as well he didn’t try to find out. Savage traded out of the No. 12 spot to No. 13, grabbed Wimbley and said amen. This time, the trick for Savage is to score with a No. 3 or No. 4 pick as effectively as he did with Wimbley at 13. He knows now he has something in Wimbley. He plunges back into the unknown. What if Joe Thomas is another Robert Gallery? What if Adrian Peterson is as fragile as Courtney Brown? What if Brady Quinn is Rick Mirer? It’s far from guaranteed Savage is better off with a No. 3 pick than a 13. The 13th pick of the 2001 draft, Marcus Stroud, is having a better career than a fellow defensive lineman drafted the same year at No. 3, that Warren guy. In 1998, Arizona made its usual ill-fated pick, getting Andre Wadsworth at No. 3. An excellent defender, Takeo Spikes, was there for Cincinnati at No. 13. The 13 hole has produced Hall of Famers — inducted or sure to be — in 1997 (Tony Gonzalez), 1979 (Kellen Winslow Sr.), Franco Harris (1972) and Bob Lilly (1961). We’re not saying Wimbley is a Hall of Famer. We are saying he’s no Gerard Warren. THE BIG FLIP The Browns will know by week’s end whether they’re drafting at No. 3 or No. 4 in the first round. A reliable source said the coin flip between Cleveland and Tampa Bay to determine those spots will come off at the Combine. There’s no better illustration of the draft as a crapshoot than what has happened with the Nos. 3 and 4 picks. The No. 3 spot has produced six Hall of Famers, Bobby Layne, Doak Walker, Merlin Olsen, Charley Taylor, Dick Butkus and Barry Sanders. The No. 4 spot has produced eight Hall of Famers, Otto Graham, Gale Sayers, Bob Griese, Joe Greene, John Hannah, Walter Payton, Dan Hampton and Reggie White. There have been more busts in the No. 3 hole than in the No. 4. Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Andre Wadsworth, Heath Shuler and Cleveland’s anti-Otto, Mike Phipps, all were worse No. 3 picks than Gerard Warren. Peter Warrick and Art Schlichter were the worst No. 4 picks I found from a comparable span of years. Reach Repository sports writer Steve Doerschuk at (330) 580-8347 or e-mail: steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.comhttp://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=17&ID=336993&r=23&subCategoryID=
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2nd String
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2nd String
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I get sick of the "player x was drafted before player y, but player y is a probowler now and player x sucks." who can see the future
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Hall of Famer
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Edwards was a #3 sooo lol
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Man i don't know why ppl r so down on edwards....he is FAR from sucking....sure he doesn't have the most realiable hands....but he does NOT suck........
It's not even like he played with lack of motivation last year..... He is as motivated as they come...and that i think is one of the most important trait for a playmaker to have....to always stay hungry....i hope all this negative light doesn't humble him down TOO much....and he still has his mean streak...and channels his "attitude" in making plays...
I bet someone is going to bring up the whole INT thing...how he doesn't fight for the ball and bla hblah.....please...he was just in some bad spots last year...i don't think ANY WR can CAUSE that many INTs cuz of lack of effort....he is NO RANDY MOSS...
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Legend
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It is all about expectations....the 3rd OAP should play better than he has. If he was a 3rd rounder, he wouldn't suck. As a top of the first round pick, he does.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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Kellen Winslow Jr. No Evel Knievel.
What the hell does that mean,,,,, for crying out loud,,, so the kid can't ride a bike,,,, so what,,, he can catch the dang ball and block downfield,,, he's not afraid of taking hit and he's not afraid to fight for the ball,,,, what the heck else does this reporter want from a guy,,,, OK,,,so it took him two years to show his skills,,,,first year missed,,,I have no problem with,,,,the second,,yea,,,that was dumb.
But he's here now and I think the kid as All Pro written all over him...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hopefully the knee will get better and he will be able to go downfield.
Most of his catches last year were on crossing routes.
Unfortuantely, there is the possibility that his Evil Knevil stunt may have cost him a career as a truly elite player.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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Quote:
Quote:
Kellen Winslow Jr. No Evel Knievel.
What the hell does that mean,,,,, for crying out loud,,, so the kid can't ride a bike,,,, so what,,, he can catch the dang ball and block downfield,,, he's not afraid of taking hit and he's not afraid to fight for the ball,,,, what the heck else does this reporter want from a guy,,,, OK,,,so it took him two years to show his skills,,,,first year missed,,,I have no problem with,,,,the second,,yea,,,that was dumb.
But he's here now and I think the kid as All Pro written all over him...
Unfortunately, things like this will be like an albatross around Winslow's neck for awhile. I post on various sports related boards & if I had a dollar for every time Winslow's name is mentioned that some clown has to bring up " but he's a soulja". All he (Winslow) can do is try to be humble & shut them up with his performance on the field.
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Legend
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Quote:
Hopefully the knee will get better and he will be able to go downfield.
Most of his catches last year were on crossing routes.
Unfortuantely, there is the possibility that his Evil Knevil stunt may have cost him a career as a truly elite player.
I feel really bad for him and for us because of this.
I've really got my fingers crossed that this offseason is good to him, and that he can get back to close to what he could have been.
My hope is that the injury only cut a couple of years off of his career and very, very slight lowering of the ceiling on his abilities.
We'll know the story very early next year I believe. At worst case, he'll still be a Pro Bowler caliber player, I believe.
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I've really got my fingers crossed that this offseason is good to him, and that he can get back to close to what he could have been.
He led all TEs in receptions, and was easily the best reciever on this team. It kills me that so many Browns fans fail to realize what the Browns have in Winslow. Getting back to what he COULD HAVE BEEN? Open your eyes and see what he is, one of the best TEs in the league. It's a shame many can't appreciate it.
As for all the "soulja" crap, II wish every player on this team prepared and performed like a "soldier", maybe winning wouldn't be such a tough accomplishment.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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I've really got my fingers crossed that this offseason is good to him, and that he can get back to close to what he could have been.
He led all TEs in receptions, and was easily the best reciever on this team. It kills me that so many Browns fans fail to realize what the Browns have in Winslow. Getting back to what he COULD HAVE BEEN? Open your eyes and see what he is, one of the best TEs in the league. It's a shame many can't appreciate it.
I do appreciate it. I love his hard work and his attitude. I think he is a great player and will be for many years.
However, his knee limited him this year. I wish people like you could OPEN YOUR EYES and be realistic. 
His YPC were low. Some of that was a result of the play calling.
But a lot of that was because he couldn't run down field, couldn't separate from his defender, and couldn't break tackles after the catch.
I'm hoping he can do those things next year in addition to everything he did this year.
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interestingly enough..
he still broke tackles (ie Joey Porter), and was still able to get separation from defenders..
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Well, what I was trying to say and I clearly didn't do a good job,,,is that this reporter was trying to make a point about how bad our drafts have been in the past,,, he really can't say anything bad about Winslow,,,look at the record this year,, the kid was banged up and still broke or matched records for a TE,,, so what's he do,,,, Says he's no Evil Knievel,,,,,,,Geez,,,, What a dolt this reporter is,,,,
Wouldn't it have been better to say,,,
Kellen Winslow II - if he stays off bikes,,, could be all pro
But NOOOOOOOO,,,,,,,that wouldn't have made his point as well,,,,,, JERK REPORTER!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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interestingly enough..
he still broke tackles (ie Joey Porter), and was still able to get separation from defenders..
Come on HotB, you know what I'm saying.
I'm not saying he never did any of those things. He just didn't do them enough because of the knee.
I'm not sure why people are even debating this. Winslow himself said this to be the case.
I love Winslow and want him on the team for a long time.
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You're confusing me dude, I think you're saying that he wasn't as good as he could have been without the knee surgery because he couldn't seperate from defenders downfield and open up the routes for longer gains. If that's it, i agree. But yeah, Winslow was our only good player last year. I expect him only to get better. He's not a very old player, 23 years old. This is one of the reasons why i think he'll be even better next year. His receptions and yards might not be as high because our offense will hopefully have other elements to it, but he should be a little bit faster, crisper, and better as it is. Don't give up on the guy yet, he was our best player last year (and he wasn't given the credit he should have gotten in the NFL as he played in such a bad situation) and he's still really young. His knee will repair itself (he's not in his 30's or something, he's still growing) and you will see an even more productive player next year who seperates downfield from his defenders and continues to fight for and catch the ball with consistancy. Winslow's the man dude, and he hasn't peaked yet. We need some offensive playmaker to be excited about!!! 
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 02/19/07 11:07 AM.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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This reporter is just rolling around in his own pity... Our picks aren't really all that far off the average for the league.
Tim Couch. - Bust - Played like a third rounder/ hard to say if Frye is better or worse
Courtney Brown. - Talent was never the issue - just health. Was Bo Jackson a bust?
Gerard Warren. - I'm not a GW fan but if this guy had been picked #24 overall everyone would consider him a big success and good pick. For the right money he's a solid starter.
William Green. - Huge bust IMO BD's worst pick by far- though to be fair we urgently needed a RB and the only other RB taken in the first was Duckett who wasn't any better. Drafting for need is a good way to get burned.
Jeff Faine. - a solid starter for a team better than ours. How's that a bad pick for a #21 overall? The mistake was letting him go for almost nothing in return.
Kellen Winslow Jr.- Plenty of talent, just dumb as a rock. I have a tough time forgiving a player that can't get on the field due to "off field" issues. Still though a quality starter for most teams in the NFL.
Braylon Edwards. - showing the "Robiski effect" where lazy loose coaching yields lazy careless play on Sundays. If he can shut his mouth and practice hard he'll be very good.
Wimbley - Like Parcells said "let's not annoint him just yet". Looks like a good pick but we'll need a few more seasons to really know.
So overall there are two flat out busts in Couch and Green, a IR regular in CB, a 15-slot reach in GW, and four guys that could (or do) start on better teams than ours.
That's really not any worse than the average around the league.
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All Pro
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What a ridiculous article.
And the next head coach is ......
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Quote:
Kellen Winslow Jr. No Evel Knievel.
Braylon Edwards. No Ted Ginn Jr.
Winslow, may not be Evel Knieval, but he showed he can play TE in the NFL. and he is only starting.
Edwards...compare to Ginn? Who hasn't shown anything at all in the NFL yet, that's like comparing Lebron james when he was in 6th grade to Michael Jordan.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Maybe Something to this Lucky #13??? 
2005: Jammal Brown...after one year made the switch to Left Tackle - made the Pro Bowl!
2004: Lee Evans WR Bills...excellent WR and is maybe one of the most under rated WRs in the NFL.
2003: Ty Warren DR Pats...has had an excellent solid career progressively getting better with each season. 2006 was stellar.
2002: Dante Stallworth WR...ooops does the lucky trend start with 03 lets see further.
2001: Marcus Stroud DT Jags...nah back on track Great DT!!!
2000: John Abraham DE Jets/Falcons...first ??? Oft injured when not injured is a stud.
1999: Troy Edwards WR Steelers...hmmm maybe the trick is not to draft a WR...lol 
1998: Takeo Spikes LB Bengals/Bills...excellent LB.
So maybe we should trade down twice and pick up a couple of extra 1st day draft picks in the process and get there in 07 as well 
hmmm Okoye drops there? Lynch? 
Yeah maybe a draft thread???
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Well, what I was trying to say and I clearly didn't do a good job,,,is that this reporter was trying to make a point about how bad our drafts have been in the past,,, he really can't say anything bad about Winslow,,,look at the record this year,, the kid was banged up and still broke or matched records for a TE,,, so what's he do,,,, Says he's no Evil Knievel,,,,,,,Geez,,,, What a dolt this reporter is,,,,
Wouldn't it have been better to say,,,
Kellen Winslow II - if he stays off bikes,,, could be all pro
But NOOOOOOOO,,,,,,,that wouldn't have made his point as well,,,,,, JERK REPORTER!
Actually, the reporter was making a comment about maturity and attitude. The solja thing was immaturity. You expect immaturity out of a 22 year old college graduate making 25,000 dollars per year.... irresponsibility and immaturity doesn't hurt a yougster then, because his irresponsibility hurts no one but himself.
You expect some common sense, and a sense of responsibility out of a first round pick making MILLIONS, especially when he is the son of an NFL Hall of Famer. That is what the reporter is alluding to. The motorcycle stunt showed a lack of responsibility, that is expected in a first round draft pick....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Legend
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Quote:
Actually, the reporter was making a comment about maturity and attitude. The solja thing was immaturity. You expect immaturity out of a 22 year old college graduate making 25,000 dollars per year.... irresponsibility and immaturity doesn't hurt a yougster then, because his irresponsibility hurts no one but himself.
You expect some common sense, and a sense of responsibility out of a first round pick making MILLIONS, especially when he is the son of an NFL Hall of Famer. That is what the reporter is alluding to. The motorcycle stunt showed a lack of responsibility, that is expected in a first round draft pick....
When did financial status become the factor to determine maturity?
If you ask me, it would be the other way around...
the 22 yo out of college making 25k a year is struck with a reality brick, and matures quickly realizing the only way to get anywhere in life is through hard work and determination.
The 22 yo out of college handed a 5 mil check, is immature, because they haven't ever had to "work" for thier money, are set for life, and feel invincible.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 02/19/07 03:01 PM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually, the reporter was making a comment about maturity and attitude. The solja thing was immaturity. You expect immaturity out of a 22 year old college graduate making 25,000 dollars per year.... irresponsibility and immaturity doesn't hurt a yougster then, because his irresponsibility hurts no one but himself.
You expect some common sense, and a sense of responsibility out of a first round pick making MILLIONS, especially when he is the son of an NFL Hall of Famer. That is what the reporter is alluding to. The motorcycle stunt showed a lack of responsibility, that is expected in a first round draft pick....
When did financial status become the factor to determine maturity?
If you ask me, it would be the other way around...
the 22 yo out of college making 25k a year is struck with a reality brick, and matures quickly realizing the only way to get anywhere in life is through hard work and determination.
The 22 yo out of college handed a 5 mil check, is immature, because they haven't ever had to "work" for thier money, are set for life, and feel invincible.
Your very wise, especially for a long haired hippie. 
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually, the reporter was making a comment about maturity and attitude. The solja thing was immaturity. You expect immaturity out of a 22 year old college graduate making 25,000 dollars per year.... irresponsibility and immaturity doesn't hurt a yougster then, because his irresponsibility hurts no one but himself.
You expect some common sense, and a sense of responsibility out of a first round pick making MILLIONS, especially when he is the son of an NFL Hall of Famer. That is what the reporter is alluding to. The motorcycle stunt showed a lack of responsibility, that is expected in a first round draft pick....
When did financial status become the factor to determine maturity?
If you ask me, it would be the other way around...
the 22 yo out of college making 25k a year is struck with a reality brick, and matures quickly realizing the only way to get anywhere in life is through hard work and determination.
The 22 yo out of college handed a 5 mil check, is immature, because they haven't ever had to "work" for thier money, are set for life, and feel invincible.
A first round pick, making 5 million per year, holds the hopes of a team, a city, a state, or a region in his hands. As a result, more is expected of him due to his "Big Money." The thread is about # 1 Busts.... if a 4th rounder pulls a Knievil, and has to sit out a year, he's not thought of as a bust... If a 5 million dollar, 1st round top ten overall pick pulls a Knievil, and sits out a year due to immaturity, he's a bust because of the amount of money the team has invested in him....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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wasn't winslow a 20 y o rookie?
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