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Not just to you Charlie....
But we seem to be chasing fireflies.
Ever gone out with your daughter to catch fireflies? Or better yet - have 3 to 5 kids over - and catch fireflies? Right before, and after, you do hot dogs over an open fire? And then put the kids to bed, in a tent, in your backyard, with a jar of fireflies for a night light?
It's fun.
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no daughter, but did it with my son. Curiously, there are no fireflies in California.
I don't see how a private organization can be denied a permit for construction when the proposed facility does not violate any zoning laws.
It is a mindless distraction to the real issues of the time. Created by the right to propogate faux outrage at another minority... pick the week and the faux outrage will continue, 14th amendment, Shirley Sherrod, etc, etc. Yep, an election is a couple of months away, and we need to motivate the base.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Dawg Talker
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Will non muslims be able to enter this "cultural" center without permission from muslims?
I mean - in my cultural center - the cultural center I attend that is - everyone is welcome. The doors are unlocked at about 8 a.m., and they are locked at 11 p.m. - and otherwise - ANYONE can enter, at any time - they don't even need permission from the Christians.
It is open to all, as it says on the site that was linked earlier. So, Mosque? No. Cultural Center? Yes.
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Legend
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no daughter, but did it with my son. Curiously, there are no fireflies in California.
I don't see how a private organization can be denied a permit for construction when the proposed facility does not violate any zoning laws.
It is a mindless distraction to the real issues of the time. Created by the right to propogate faux outrage at another minority... pick the week and the faux outrage will continue, 14th amendment, Shirley Sherrod, etc, etc. Yep, an election is a couple of months away, and we need to motivate the base.
I don't know about all that - don't care to.
I got into this discussion because charlie said it's not a mosque, but my church - which does just as much if not more for the community as this "mosque/cultural center" is somehow still a church - and not a cultural center.
Funny how that works, isn't it? My church is a church - but a place in new york that does the same thing as my christian church, is called a cultural center. I don't get it.
Wanna build a mosque? There's about 120 acres of crap field behind me. Build one there. I wouldn't care. (as long as they don't build it my shooting range)
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Like most others I'm not arguing their right to build it, they have the right to build it.. but if they wanted the frenzy to die down, a simple gesture like removing a secondary function of the building (like the mosque part) would give them the high ground and they would get a lot more support...
All due respect, DC- but I'm not entirely certain that your assumption would play out as you described. It's possible, but at this point, I find myself rather doubtful.
As I've studied Humankind throughout history, I've seen a pattern of behavior that leads me to believe that the opposite might bear itself out. That pattern can best be described by a cliche that My Pops used to quote regularly: "The squeaky wheel is the one which gets greased." It's a cliche because of the truism it espouses.
You see it in everyday life... in a myriad of ways. Lobbyists who get legislation changed before a resolution becomes a bill. Angry parents who get a teacher fired 'for cause'... whatever the cause du jour may happen to be. I could go on and on, but you've probably seen your own instances of the kinds of things I'm describing.
Where this issue is concerned, I fear that the concessions you describe would only serve to embolden the opponents of this center/mosque/whatever it's called, until more and more concessions are required to appease them. Which begs the same kind of question you yourself asked in an earlier post. You asked, "How far away is far enough?" The current question would be: "How much of the original plan must be scuttled to make it acceptable?"
My guess is... all of it. Nothing less than total eradication of the project will satisfy those who are against it. Eliminate the worship floors, and the opponents will want the culinary school gone (Can't have falafel and hommus in here, can we?) Eliminate the cooking school, and the athletic facilities will be next... because we don't need good Americans playing roundball on the same courts as "those people'...). It sounds preposterous, but it's not, really. This is how it all starts.
And if it starts, we truly will have become guilty of the very things the Constitution protects us ALL from. If a small number of us are at risk of losing our rights (even by small degrees at a time), we ALL are at risk, over time.
We worship different faiths here... because we're free to do so.
We live where we choose... because we're free to do so.
We marry whom we choose... because we're free to do so.
We can purchase proerty, and dedicate it for specific (legal) uses... because we're free to do so.
We enjoy these rights because we're Americans, living on American soil. If we start drawing lines in the sand because some of us find others to be operating "in poor taste," we embark upon a slippery slope that seeks to take freedoms away from ALL of us, eventually... because "taste" is subjective- and none of us have more rights than others to be the arbiters of what "good taste" is. The minute we force another American to bend to our will, we become bullies, the likes of which can be easily seen in 1930's Germany. They began their movement in the social realm- long before their social views became legislated law.
Either we're all Americans.... or we aren't. And If we are all Americans, we must stand up for another's rights as if they were our own... whether it's easy to do or not. Americans have never taken the easy road or the convenient road, when it comes to civil liberties. If we start now, by forcing other Americans to change (just to make others more comfortable), it will never end... until America isn't America any more.
This has less to do with 51Park than it has to do with the heart and soul of what makes this Union unique in all of the world. NONE of us should be willing to risk that.
There has been a recent debate about the merits of "American Exceptionalism." I see no better way to express that exceptionalism than to do the right thing, when it's the hardest thing in the world to do.
Whether it was planned to be or not- this is a test of what it means to be an American citizen. Speaking only for myself, I believe we will have failed that test, if we ask, demand or require these people to compromise even one brick of the planned establishment in question.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Dawg Talker
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It is a mindless distraction to the real issues of the time. Created by the right to propogate faux outrage at another minority... pick the week and the faux outrage will continue, 14th amendment, Shirley Sherrod, etc, etc. Yep, an election is a couple of months away, and we need to motivate the base.
I agree 5000%.
This is a local issue in New York and even then, shouldn't be an issue. Yet, the right is making this into the "BIG DEAL" to run off of because the election is coming up. The bad news though, is they are identifying themselves with Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, and their Stop Islamization of America group.
If anything, that should scare people AWAY from the right rather than to it. But, then again, polls supposedly are saying that 25% of Americans believe Obama is a Muslim. Also, polls are saying that 6% of Americans believe the Moon Landing was a fake.
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Bloomberg Predicts End of Mosque Furor After Elections
August 26, 2010, 9:10 PM ET
Mayor Michael Bloomberg predicted that the controversy swirling around the proposal to build an Islamic center near Ground Zero will end after the midterm elections because it’s driven by politicians intent on polarizing voters.
“This whole issue, I think, will go away right after the next election,” Bloomberg said Thursday evening during an interview on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.”
“This is plain and simple people trying to stir up things to get publicity and trying to polarize people so that they can get some votes,” Bloomberg added. “And I don’t think that most of these people who are yelling and screaming really care one way or another.”
In his first appearance on the show in eight years, the mayor spent much of the interview earnestly defending the planned mosque and Islamic cultural center two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. “Whether you like the mosque or don’t like the mosque, you don’t have to go,” he said. “There’s already another mosque down there within four block of the World Trade Center. There’s porno places, there’s fast-food places. It’s a vibrant community. It’s New York.”
Stewart praised the mayor for his eloquent remarks but asked, “Why did you have to look at me when you said porno places?
Bloomberg replied, “I wanted to make it relevant.”
Stewart, thinking outside the box, floated a proposal of his own for a new religious institution. The funnyman said he wanted to build a reform synagogue inside St. Patrick’s Cathedral.
“If you talk to the archbishop he might be amenable to that,” Bloomberg said. “He said that he wants to bring people together.”
Stewart opened his questioning of the mayor with what he described as an “emotional super-charged issue that everyone in the city is talking about.”
The proposed mosque? Nope. The sliced bagel tax.
As The Wall Street Journal reported earlier this week, state officials have begun to ramp up enforcement of sales taxes on bagels. The tax is only applied to bagels that are sliced, prepared with toppings, or eaten in the store.
Stewart said the law is “anti-Semitic” and he suggested it unfairly penalizes downstate residents, who eat lots of bagels.
“You can’t even get a bagel upstate,” the mayor joked, before promising to move this issue involving bagels to the top of his third-term policy agenda.
The show is scheduled to air in New York at 11 p.m. Thursday. A video of the show will be available online at the Daily Show’s website early Friday morning.
In the meantime, here’s a rough transcript of Stewart’s interview with the mayor:
web page
This link is to the video of Bloomberg interview: web page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, what is fun to watch is all those DTers who have had their buttons pushed by those stirring the crap over the mosque, just to get a few votes.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Is a Salvation Army soup kitchen a church because it might have a place set aside for Bible teachings?
How about a place like Covenant House that cares for homeless youth?
Maybe the YMCA? (Young Men's Christian Association)
Just asking.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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This is not an "isolated event". Islamic buildings are being opposed in:
NYC (the one that this thread is about)
Murfeesboro, TN
Temecula, Cali
Wisconsin (all Mosque projects put on hold by state)
If your problem is about it being "too close to Ground Zero" how close is too close? Because right now, it looks like Tennessee, California, and the entire state of Wisconsin are too close as well.
You make the broad assumption, as you are known to do, that my opposition to the mosque (which I don't really have) and the people who oppose these other mosques have the same rationale behind it.
yebat' Putin
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All due respect, DC- but I'm not entirely certain that your assumption would play out as you described. It's possible, but at this point, I find myself rather doubtful.
Clem, I tend to operate on two levels.. there is the idealist in me that thinks of the way things should be.. then there is the pragmatist in me that thinks of the way things could be.
Would a concession embolden some? Probably.. would it pacify others? Probably... but what it would do is give the politicians, all of whom are handling this with kid gloves, the opportunity to come in and say.. "OK, they made X and Y concessions, let's go ahead with it." Is that ideal from either side? No, but it would allow both sides to claim some level of victory and it would help diffuse the whole situation...
But it's funny, as far as whether or not this is a "mosque".. I wonder what their application for tax exemption says since I assume they wish to be registered as a non-profit...
yebat' Putin
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JC.
If it had been called the "51 Park Place Cultural Center" from the beginning, no one would have even batted an eye.
Even then, Cordoba is nothing.
Cordoba is the old Roman village of Corduba. The Visogoths conquered Iberia and Corduba was included in their empire. Then, the Moors conquered Spain and interbred with the inhabitants. Eventually, the Moors were done in by civil strife amongst themselves. Something that the newly created Kingdoms of Leon and Castille capitalized on.
Leon and Castille were inspired by the life of El Cid. El Cid believed that the Moors were a blight on Europe and had to be eliminated. The Kingdoms of Leon and Castille believed it was their Christian duty to kill all the non-Christians in Spain.
Because of their new shock troops known as Conquestadores they succeeded. Jews and Muslims were eliminated in Spain by 1492. Many Moors tried to keep their homes in Spain by converting to Catholicism. These were known as Morisco. But, even they were not spared. By 1614 a new edict was passed in Spain which threatened all people of Muslim descent (even the Morisco) with death. So, even the Morisco were forced to flee into Morocco.
Thanks for the history lesson, I already knew that. But then that would deprive you of your all-knowing attitude you like to project. 
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Did you know, that even though I am an Atheist. I go to Church on Sundays? (I am an Atheist, and I do go to church on Sundays - at least I did untill I was 6)
So then are you atheist, absent in the belief of a deity, or agnostic, skeptical or questioning of the existence of a deity?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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All Pro
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It's not so much about swaying votes as it is having a safe ground for debate.
Neither party has any interest at all in discussing real issues or ideas. They'd much rather find lightning rod issues that don't matter, but get people talking and give them campaign fodder.
So you wind up with talking points that have no basis in the reality of the real issues our country faces -- mosques, gay marriage, socialism, etc.
It's much easier to say you're for or against a mosque than it is to get into real issues ... mainly because the two parties are pretty much identical in terms of action.
I just finished reading "All the King's Men." While I agree with your first and second statements here, I sometimes wonder if this is only b/c these relatively unimportant issues are what sells. In that (fictional) book, the main character can't win an election, and the voters' eyes glaze over when he talks about real issues like taxes, social spending, civil rights, etc. As soon as he makes the shift to spouting a populist agenda, he wins every election. So while the political parties have a role here, I think an underlying apathy by the voters also contributes to this.
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So then are you atheist, absent in the belief of a deity, or agnostic, skeptical or questioning of the existence of a deity?
I do not believe the Earth, the Universe, myself, or anyone else or any other living thing on this planet and not on this planet was created by an all-powerful invisible being.
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All Pro
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No, because the mosque is needed because the nearest mosque is too small to accomodate the Muslim populace that needs a place to worship. Mosques in New York have been forced to hold multiple events all day to cover the Muslim population.
So they are really in sore need of this mosque they are building that is being argued isn't a mosque?
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Legend
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No, because the mosque is needed because the nearest mosque is too small to accomodate the Muslim populace that needs a place to worship. Mosques in New York have been forced to hold multiple events all day to cover the Muslim population.
So they are really in sore need of this mosque they are building that is being argued isn't a mosque?
Excellent question. And I'm sure charlie will be around soon to answer it. Although - it will be tough for him to answer it, because on one hand, he says it's not a mosque, but on the other hand, he says it is a mosque.
Charlie?????????????????
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Excellent question. And I'm sure charlie will be around soon to answer it. Although - it will be tough for him to answer it, because on one hand, he says it's not a mosque, but on the other hand, he says it is a mosque.
Charlie?????????????????
It is not entirely a mosque. As I stated. It includes a prayer area for muslims but the building itself is not devoted solely to prayer. It is a community center. It will serve the several hundred thousand muslims in new york.
Even if it was completely a mosque I wouldn't care if they built it.
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Legend
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We're not talking about whether it should be built or not - we're talking about your double talk.
You insisted it was not a mosque when that fit your agenda, but apparently you also said New York needs another mosque to take care of all the muslims and their prayer needs.
Which is it charlie - is it a mosque? Or is it a cultural center.
You've claimed it is both - but at separate times.
Seems to me you argue whatever fits your fancy - but in the next post, you argue the opposite, while still thinking you have a point when the truth is, you don't.
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It is not a mosque. It wouldn't matter if it was. They still have a right to build it. This issue is being used by politicians (mostly Republican) to keep you from thinking about real issues that actually affect your life on a daily basis. After November, it will be built (remodeled) and no one will care. Glenn Beck will still be a self-aggrandizing idiot. (Just threw that one in - no charge  ) That about sums everything up, I think..... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Dawg Talker
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It is not a mosque.
It wouldn't matter if it was. They still have a right to build it.
This issue is being used by politicians (mostly Republican) to keep you from thinking about real issues that actually affect your life on a daily basis.
After November, it will be built (remodeled) and no one will care.
Glenn Beck will still be a self-aggrandizing idiot. (Just threw that one in - no charge )
That about sums everything up, I think.....
To paraphrase from religion.
Amen
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If there were ever 2 people I thought I would never agree with ......   Anyway ..... I agree. (about the Mosque anyway)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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They still have a right to build it.
And I don't believe I have said they don't have the right to build it. In fact, I've made no statement about it being built - the closest I've come to making any statement about the proposed mosque is "heck, I don't care if they build one right behind me".
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j/c
This whole debate is useless...anyone with ANY sense realizes that they have the RIGHT to build it there.
Also, anyone with ANY sense realizes that they simply should have chosen another spot.
While the useless debate rages on...people are not paying attention to the Imam who is heading the mosque/cultural center and who he is associated with and where is the money coming from?
Not to mention a King with a track record of shooting off at the mouth without knowing the facts...but who is now suddenly unwilling to comment about the tastelessness of this decision. Curious...for those actually paying attention.
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The story will not go away after November. I do agree with everything else you said.
#gmstrong
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They still have a right to build it.
And I don't believe I have said they don't have the right to build it. In fact, I've made no statement about it being built - the closest I've come to making any statement about the proposed mosque is "heck, I don't care if they build one right behind me".
I would care to a degree, but the good thing about freedom is, when the For Sale sign goes up -- and it would --, I figure I can sell it to a Moslem,....because you know most Americans wouldn't consider buying it.
We have a Pakistani family next door,...they're good hardworking citizens. Trying to sell the home though, and not having much luck.
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Dawg Talker
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people are not paying attention to the Imam who is heading the mosque/cultural center and who he is associated with and where is the money coming from?
The Imam works for the state department as an envoy to the Middle East. He has been an envoy for the Bush and Obama administration.
One of the financers is Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia. Why is this name important? Bin Talal owns 7% of News Corp. Bin Talal is one of the largest shareholders of News Corp. Why is News Corp important?
Well, News Corp is a media giant. News Corp owns various forms of media. Newspapers, Television Stations, Magazines and Books, you name it.
They own these forms of media in many different countries including the United States. They own:
Fox Filmed Entertainment: 20th Century Fox's parent company
20th Century Fox: a film production company
20th Century Fox Television - primetime television programming.
20th Television - television distribution (syndication).
Fox Searchlight Pictures - specialised films.
Fox 2000 Pictures - general audience feature films.
Fox Television Studios(productions)- market specific programming e.g. COPS.
Fox Television Studios International
Fox World Productions
Fox World Australia
Fox TV Studios France
Fox TV Studios India
Natural History New Zealand - natural world documentaries, non-fiction programming.
Fox Faith - Promotion and distribution of Christian and related "family friendly" movies on DVD and some theatrical release.
Fox Studios Australia, Sydney, New South Wales
Blue Sky Studios - production of CGI films e.g. Ice Age.
Fox Entertainment Group
New Regency Productions (20%) - general audience feature films.
Regency Enterprises (20%) - parent company of New Regency Productions (50%).
BSkyB Studios London, England
FOX Star Studios New Delhi,India
Hey, Fox, that sounds familiar. Who is the CEO of that company? Rupert Murdoch. That's why it sounds familiar. FOX News. So, FOX News second largest shareholder is one of the main sources for this so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" that everyone is up in arms about - especially on FOX News.
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Who is the CEO of that company? Rupert Murdoch. That's why it sounds familiar. FOX News. So, FOX News second largest shareholder is one of the main sources for this so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" that everyone is up in arms about - especially on FOX News.
So, you're saying that even though they stand to lose financially, FOX is willing to allow dissenting opinions regarding the mosque? The lefties at the other networks shoud be so fair and balanced.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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So, you're saying that even though they stand to lose financially, FOX is willing to allow dissenting opinions regarding the mosque? The lefties at the other networks shoud be so fair and balanced.
NO, I am saying that Faux News is responsible for building the mosque as they are a contributor to the funding behind the mosque.
So, this "issue" is created by Faux News because they believe they can gain politically by this. They give campaign cash to the Republican party - period. You cannot claim that MSNBC gives to the Democratic Party because MSNBC gave the same ammount to both the Republican and Democratic party. Faux gave solely to the Republican Party.
Faux is simply creating an issue where there is no issue for political gain and the issue was generated by them while they are the ones funding the "issue".
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So, if you label Fox as "Faux News", what do you label the rest of the media?
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They give campaign cash to the Republican party - period. You cannot claim that MSNBC gives to the Democratic Party because MSNBC gave the same ammount to both the Republican and Democratic party. Faux gave solely to the Republican Party.
I could eat Alpha Bits and crap out a more relevant response. Where in the sam hell did you get that out of what I said? I made no claims about campaign contributions. But since you brought up the subject, 88% of the employees of the major networks....including some big name supposedly unbiased reporters....contributed to the lefties.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...-101668063.html
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Did the Imam state at one point that the USA was responsible (in some ways) for the 9/11 attacks?
Why will the King NOT respond to the "appropriateness" of the chosen location?
At least give us a patented "they acted stupidly" comment...he can always retract it with a "beer summit".
Again, why will Obama not respond? (fully expecting you to dodge this question btw)
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Did the Imam state at one point that the USA was responsible (in some ways) for the 9/11 attacks?
Willie, did the Imam actually state that.. where can I see an article, I'd like to read the entire story? Help.....
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Why will the King NOT respond to the "appropriateness" of the chosen location?
I can't answer for the President but it seems to me that the folks that want to build that mosque are within thier rights to do so.. the wisdom is something that President Obama has already questioned. I'm not sure what else you want him to do.. they aren't breaking any laws by trying to build it there, Technically.
But you gotta admit, it's a dumb idea.. Amercans are a forgiving people but this is going a bit far... JMO however.
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Again, why will Obama not respond? (fully expecting you to dodge this question btw)
President Obama did indeed comment,, not sure whatelse you want...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It is not a mosque.
It wouldn't matter if it was. They still have a right to build it.
Ah so if we are going to debate them having the *right* to build it...are you saying that those that are against it don't have the *right* to say it shouldn't be built?
However the point isn't if it is a mosque or not. (I can put aside the fact that they are saying it is a mosque even though Charlie says it isnt.)
People think the "Muslims have rights!!!11" makes a great talking point, but in reality this happens in America quite often...to non-Muslims. Of course you may not know it because the flames aren't being fanned by the media and the sheeple aren't joining in, but it does.
Christian church gets resistance from residents
A mall that has been mostly vacant for +10 years and completely empty for over 5 is to be purchased by a local church. People do not want it in their 'neighborhood' so there is an argument going to see what happens to this unused 30 acres.
Church changes plan after opposition
Local church changes plans to buy school after neighborhood shows signs of opposition.
To play off Spiderman's uncle, "With great rights comes great responsibility". Do you think the same people claiming it is their "right" to put this up would support a group that wanted to put a museum next door detailing the atrocities committed in the name of religion? Most likely not...'rights' will mean a bit less for some in that scenario.
I wonder if they would gain more support if they added a big section distancing 'main stream' Muslims from 'radical' Muslims. Maybe they could discuss the 'misconception' that Muslims are against Sharia in the United States? Perhaps they can show that Muslims, like the ones in Dearborn, Michigan who imposed a 5 block "No Free Speech" zone violate people rights and aren't part of their faith?
Or maybe "Rights" today is just a talking point trotted out by people trying to prove a point on the internet and we have already lost...
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President Obama did indeed comment,, not sure whatelse you want...
D,
His "comment" was that they have the "right" to build it there...that such a right was the foundation upon which America was built. (As if the King gives a crap about the American constitution...somehow that is off topic here though.)
He then stated that he would not comment on the "appropriateness" of the decision. Really? Wow.
He commented to the point of their right at the Ramadan celebration he threw using taxpayer $$$...then he would not comment to other Americans as to his opinion of appropriateness. (Yet you believe he did? Or so I gather from your response.)
I believe I read where the Imam made such a comment on 9/11...I said above that I questioned IF he did so. You want to know for sure? YOU look it up...I don't really care.
I'm already convinced that this decision is wildly inappropriate...I am already convinced that the King approves-of and supports the decision.
Lord knows, if the King had an uninformed opinion to spew out there, he would have done so by now.
I've done enough research to conclude that this particular Imam is a snake. You want proof or disproof? Do your own research.
Back to your question posted above...What else do I want (him to comment on)?
I want to hear his opinion on the appropriateness of the location.,,but he won't or can't do so.
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His "comment" was that they have the "right" to build it there...
Was he incorrect.. do they NOT have the right to build there?
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that such a right was the foundation upon which America was built. (As if the King gives a crap about the American constitution...somehow that is off topic here though.)
Your personal commentary aside, is it not part of the foundation upon which America was built?
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He commented to the point of their right at the Ramadan celebration he threw using taxpayer $$$...then he would not comment to other Americans as to his opinion of appropriateness. (Yet you believe he did? Or so I gather from your response.)
So your saying the President of the United States of America threw a party for Ramadan using taxpayer dollars? I didn't know that,, can you please lead me to an article that verifies that for me.. That would be good to know. thanks in advance..
So basically because he didn't give the response you wanted, you don't think it was a response at all? Do I have that right?
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I believe I read where the Imam made such a comment on 9/11...I said above that I questioned IF he did so. You want to know for sure? YOU look it up...I don't really care.
well, you were asking if that was that case,, I was asking you if it was.. don't get your panties in a bunch.. Believe it or not,, aside from your useless slams to the President, we agree..
First off, you wrote in another comment on this thread the following:
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j/c
This whole debate is useless...anyone with ANY sense realizes that they have the RIGHT to build it there.
Also, anyone with ANY sense realizes that they simply should have chosen another spot.
I couldn't agree more.. It's a dumb idea and frankly, I can only think of one reason for them to even think it's right and that's to kinda Rub it in....
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Back to your question posted above...What else do I want (him to comment on)?
I want to hear his opinion on the appropriateness of the location.,,but he won't or can't do so.
Why should he do that. He's the president of the US.., as far as I"m concerned, He doesn't feel that putting a mosque there is appropriate,, I admit that that is my take..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hopfully this will help you.
We need to understand that there are those on the right that have been afflicted with conservaitis... it is a condition that occurs when a Democrat takes the White House.
Symptons of the disease include:
The propensitiy to create faux outrage in seemingly straight forward circumstances, and in advanced cases, the ability to manufacture faux outrage in order to demonstrate the loss of direction for the country. Andrew Breitbart has an advanced case of conservaitis.
A desire to "take back the country" or fondly remember "the America that I know." As with any memory, the "social sujects" are absent from the recall.
The inability to recall the prior republican adminsitrations shortcommings and failings.
The development of conspriacy theroies.
The projection of polical inflamtory "code words" unto the democratic president, and the demonizing of the government as a whole.
The develoment of economic theories so wild that have no proof and cannot be understood.
The application of logic or fact will only worsen the condition. The condition is highly contagous and those who encounter someone with the conditon of conservaitis are warned to carefully engage in any discussion, as they can be afflicted with the disease. This condition has a two year cycle. It gradually worsens during the even year summer and fall, coinciding with the November elections.
Obviously the "cure" is the election of a republican, at which time conservitis is replaced with progressivitis, which has its own symptoms.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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j/c This is related and interesting. Obama has much greater support among muslims than any other religion (including his own)....and is not losing support as he is with the others. (There's a table on the link showing the muslim love for O that's not pasting for some reason.) Gallup August 27, 2010 Muslims Give Obama Highest Job Approval; Mormons, Lowest Jews and those with no religious affiliation also give Obama above-average ratings by Frank Newport PRINCETON, NJ -- Muslim Americans continue to give President Barack Obama the highest job approval rating of any major religious group in the U.S., while Mormons give the president the lowest ratings. The differences in Obama's approval ratings across the religious groups included in this analysis have held fairly constant across time, even as Obama's overall rating has fallen by 15 percentage points between the first half of 2009 and the first seven months of this year. American Muslims -- in the news recently with the controversy over proposed plans to build an Islamic center and mosque near ground zero in New York City -- have given Obama his highest ratings in all three time periods: 86% in the first half of 2009, 83% in the second half of 2009, and 78% so far this year. Mormons have given Obama his lowest ratings across time, dropping from 43% in the first half of 2009 to 24% this year. In addition to Muslims, Obama receives above-average ratings among Jews, those who identify with other non-Christian religious groups, and those with no formal religious identity. Obama gets lower-than-average ratings among Protestants. Catholics have given Obama slightly higher-than-average ratings last year and so far this year. Obama has lost slightly more ground than average so far among Mormons, and has lost the least among Muslims. These findings are based on interviews with more than 275,000 adult Americans conducted as part of Gallup Daily tracking from Jan. 21, 2009, through July 31, 2010. Protestants and other non-Catholic/unaffiliated Christians are by far the largest religious group in America, representing about 55% of the adult population, followed by Catholics, at roughly 22%. About 13% of Americans do not have a formal religious identity or are explicitly atheists or agnostics. Jews, Mormons, and Muslims each represent no more than 2% of U.S. adults interviewed in Gallup's tracking. Bottom Line President Obama's job approval ratings have fallen significantly between his first six months in office and this year so far, and his ratings among major religious groups have fallen in rough lock step. The pattern that pertained when Obama first took office -- high ratings among Muslims, those with no religious identity, those identifying with non-Christian religions, and Jews; and lower ratings among Protestants and Mormons -- continues today. Although his standing has dropped among Americans in each of these groups, Obama has retained a little more strength among Muslims, the group giving him the highest ratings, and has lost a little more among Mormons, the group giving him the lowest ratings.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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/c This is related and interesting. Obama has much greater support among muslims than any other religion (including his own)....and is not losing support as he is with the others. (There's a table on the link showing the muslim love for O that's not pasting for some reason.)
jfan,, I didn't read the article,, don't see the need to be honest.. One question for ya. is there anyting particularly wrong with him receiving support from Muslims? Just wondering what the big deal is.. help me
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No. As I said, I thought it was interesting...especially by the margin shown in the table.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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So your saying the President of the United States of America threw a party for Ramadan using taxpayer dollars? I didn't know that,, can you please lead me to an article that verifies that for me.. That would be good to know. thanks in advance..
From 2009: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/09/02/Obama-hosts-Ramadan-dinner-at-White-House/UPI-13661251867599/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/15/obama-hosts-ramadan-dinne_n_682357.html Just a couple of weeks ago.
Now, granted, the iftar thing is a tradition among presidents - can't fault him there. However, he shunned the National day of Prayer - which is a Christian thing - just before this.
And yes - it it is hosted at the white house - it IS public money being spent.
He carries on the iftar dinner tradition - but shuns the national day of prayer - which is just as much, if not more of a tradition.
You are welcome in advance.
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How is this thread still going?
I thought that it was already established that this establishment isn't actually at ground zero but a few blocks away?
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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