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If you really want to rely on a 5'9" RB, more power to ya. But there is a reason the NFL is not full of undersized guys like Harrison.
There are 9 other teams with RBs no more than an inch taller and no more than 12 lbs heavier than Jerome Harrison.
Ray Rice, MJD, Frank Gore, Lesean McCoy, Javid Best, Deangelo Williams, all of SEA potential starters (Justin Forsett / Julius Jones / Leon Washington), CJ Spiller, Chris Johnson.
about 1/3rd of the league isn't 'full', but it ain't empty either.
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But there is a reason the NFL is not full of undersized guys like Harrison.
I think that is purely coach's preference. IMO, I would put five of those backs (Ray Rice, MJD, Frank Gore, Chris Johnson, Deangelo Williams) in the NFL's top 10.
Bottom Line - Harrison earned his shot. He ran against 15-20 in the box for a majority of his carries, and still produced. If he had one more carry in that KC game, he could have broken the single game record. I think we're 'replacing' him prematurely. Our running game wasn't broken - so what are we fixing with Hardesty? Hardesty should be a great insurance policy - nothing more / nothing less.
Edit - A friend pointed out Michael Turner is indeed a 'big back' so I removed him.
Last edited by invnobody; 07/27/10 12:01 AM.
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Good post. Mostly cuz I agree with you. 
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I love Harrison as a change of pace back but do not expect him to take massive amounts of carries because he is smallish. Relying on him to be a work horse of any kind would be foolish.
Harrison is 5'9 and 205lbs. Chris Johnson is 5'11 and 200lbs. Not saying that Harrison is as good as Johnson, but I am tired of the "he is too small to be a feature back" argument. Being 2 inches shorter and 5 lbs heavier means he is more compactly built.
Harrison had 116 carries over the final 3 games of the season. There is no reason that he couldn't get 250 - 300 carries in a season. With Hardesty here now, he may not need to get to that number, but Hardest hasn't proved anything while Harrison has 271 career carries with a 4.8 yard per carry average. Harrison should be the feature back until Hardesty proves he is better in practice and in real game situations.
There is a huge, huge difference between Harrison and Johnson. People cannot hit Johnson because he is so fast.
If you really want to rely on a 5'9" RB, more power to ya. But there is a reason the NFL is not full of undersized guys like Harrison. There is also a reason guys like Hardesty keep getting drafted, and drafted highly.
Johnson gets hits just like every other running back in the NFL. The key is how you take the hits and avoiding unnecessary hits.
Harrison is built very solid for someone who is 5'9, and has shown the ability to run inside and outside the tackles. Hardesty has shown the ability to get drafted, and show promise. That's it. If you want to rely on that, more power to you, but I'll take the 5'9 guy with a proven track record over a rookie anyday, until that rookie shows that he is better.
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There are 9 other teams with RBs no more than an inch taller and no more than 12 lbs heavier than Jerome Harrison.
Ray Rice, MJD, Frank Gore, Lesean McCoy, Javid Best, Deangelo Williams, all of SEA potential starters (Justin Forsett / Julius Jones / Leon Washington), CJ Spiller, Chris Johnson.
Out of those, I'd say MJD is the only exception to the rule. McCoy hasn't played a full season, Williams is a part of a duo, Best and Spiller haven't played, Rice is part time and Chris Johnson is the fastest player in the NFL. Oh and Gore has horrible injury problems, Seattle's rushing attack was just horrific. Leon Washington is coming off a bad injury as well.
So, I'd say that MJD and Rice are really the only ones you could, realistically use. Even Rice, though, has other players to help him out and MJD was at his best when he had Taylor with him.
I'm not saying Harrison is going to be useless, hardly used. But relying on him for 300+ carries is folly. He is definitely suited to be a part time, change of pace back. He's the guy you bring in after a battering ram has killed someone for 2 to 3 quarters. It'll also help extend his career and usefulness to us.
you had a good run Hank.
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Bottom Line - Harrison earned his shot. He ran against 15-20 in the box for a majority of his carries, and still produced. If he had one more carry in that KC game, he could have broken the single game record. I think we're 'replacing' him prematurely. Our running game wasn't broken - so what are we fixing with Hardesty? Hardesty should be a great insurance policy - nothing more / nothing less.
I'm confused with 15-20 in the box.......... The defense has 11 players, those are the players Harrison is against.
Otherwise, I agree that Harrison deserves his shot. And I would like to see what he can do with 15-20 per game every game. If his body can't hold up, so be it. But he deserves his chance.
While he may not be a good blocker, and he is not that much better than that at catching the ball, Harrison is a very good runner. He has shown us that by stepping up whenever given his opportunity.
He can run inside and outside. He's a huge reason we won those final games last year, so he should have the chance to show his stuff this year. So yeah, while I'd like there to be two feature backs; I do believe that Harrison should get the majority of the carries in the beginning of the game, before we start losing. Then Hardesty can spell him in the 3rd and 4th quarters after he's reached that 15-20 carry mark.
The guy is clearly a gamer. In college I believe he led the NCAA in rushing yards...... You don't do that without getting a lot of carries. If he gets injured, we have other RBs to replace him. I don't see why he shouldn't get the chance to show he can be a feature back. And if he continues to be successful, there will be more than enough carries for Hardesty to show his stuff too (because we're getting 1st downs and aren't throwing the ball because the running game is dead/we're way behind) I'm looking for Harrison to get up to may be 20 a game, and let's see how he does. Hardesty/Hillis can take the rest
And I like the addition of Hardesty, but Harrison should start our number one back this year. He proved that last year when he finally got the chance to replace Jamal Lewis on a team thats run blocking was meshing pretty well
Nobody knows if he can't be a starting RB until he gets the chance to show that he can't. So I don't see why we can't give him the chance to make himself a top NFL RB. He sure finished the season off well for us last year.......
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 07/27/10 01:29 AM.
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Out of those, I'd say MJD is the only exception to the rule. McCoy hasn't played a full season, Williams is a part of a duo, Best and Spiller haven't played, Rice is part time and Chris Johnson is the fastest player in the NFL. Oh and Gore has horrible injury problems, Seattle's rushing attack was just horrific. Leon Washington is coming off a bad injury as well.
So, I'd say that MJD and Rice are really the only ones you could, realistically use. Even Rice, though, has other players to help him out and MJD was at his best when he had Taylor with him.
Not sure where you're going with this. Every back in the NFL is one hit away from being injured. Smaller doesn't mean more injury prone. Bigger doesn't mean you'll get 300+ carries out of him.
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I'm not saying Harrison is going to be useless, hardly used. But relying on him for 300+ carries is folly. He is definitely suited to be a part time, change of pace back.
If you want to count carries, then only 6/32 teams have 'feature backs' with 300+ carries (AP, TJones, SJackson, CBenson, MJD, CJ). Again 1/3rd of them were 'smallish'. I never said Jerome Harrison needed to carry the ball 300 times a season. Nowadays, to rely on ANY back for 300+ carries is a folly. The era of the 300+ carry back died when teams started RB by committee. Cleveland should have a committee of Harrison then Hardesty.
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He's the guy you bring in after a battering ram has killed someone for 2 to 3 quarters. It'll also help extend his career and usefulness to us.
Clearly, last year the Browns saw more success with their battering ram (Chris Jennings/Jamal Lewis) in a backup role, than they did with Jerome Harrison sitting. No refuting that. Traditionally, the battering ram starts. Now teams are starting to switch the change of pace guy to the 'battering ram' back. In fact, its a new trend that 1/3rd of the teams in this copycat league are now following (by starting smallish backs).
Stats ARE for losers, but ypc of backs with more than 200 carries in order from highest to lowest:
C Johnson 5.9
Ray Rice 5.3
D Williams 5.2
J Stewart 5.1
F Gore 4.9
D Williams is the only back on that list that didn't lead his team in carries (aka - 'the feature back'). J Stewart is the only back on that list worth considering as a big back.
If I was Mangini and I saw that list, I would login to twitter and type #smallbackplease. 
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I'm confused with 15-20 in the box.......... The defense has 11 players, those are the players Harrison is against.
I forgot you have to add ::sarcasm:: and ::exaggeration:: on these boards. That was more a shot at inept QB play, than the actual rules of the game.
I agree with the rest of your post though. Its a little known fact that Harrison once led the NCAA in rushing with over 1900 yards. I have a feeling that most people who want Hardesty to start have watched his 9 min 22 sec highlight clip on youtube a million times, but haven't bothered to check out Jerome Harrison's college highlights which are equally if not more impressive.
Hardesty has run for exactly ZERO yards in the NFL - don't give him the keys just yet.
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Harrison will start the season strong, and I don't think he will mess up the opportunity for getting the bulk of the carries at the beginning of the season.. but Hardesty will get more carries as the season progresses, especially come those winter months.. ie Shonn Greene of 2009.
Also.. please don't forget about James Davis.. He will produce!! He won't get a lot of opportunity.. but we have THREE RB's who are all very talented. Spread the rock around.. Similar to how the cowgirls do with Barber, Jones, and that Georgia Tech guy.
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Hardesty has shown the ability to get drafted, and show promise. That's it
And there it is in a nutshell..
Why are so many willing to toss harrison to the curb because of the new shiny, UNPROVEN toy?
The truth will surface as camp and the season unfolds..
#GMSTRONG
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maybe we should view Jerome as a workhorse until he shows he isn't one?
amen lamp
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So, I'd say that MJD and Rice are really the only ones you could, realistically use. Even Rice, though, has other players to help him out and MJD was at his best when he had Taylor with him.
I'm not saying Harrison is going to be useless, hardly used. But relying on him for 300+ carries is folly. He is definitely suited to be a part time, change of pace back. He's the guy you bring in after a battering ram has killed someone for 2 to 3 quarters. It'll also help extend his career and usefulness to us.
 
Emmit Smith . . . . .
I rest my case
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Yup,, Emmet Smith,,, 5'9", 210 LBS..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Yup,, Emmet Smith,,, 5'9", 210 LBS..
And slow as molasses  compared to Harrison
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I like that comparison...
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Height on a RB is useless. Honestly, I think the shorter a running back is, the better.
However, I firmly believe that Harrison is not a feature back. But, for me, this has nothing to do with his size. It is about his abilities as a runner.
Harrison has great agility, quickness, and burst. My concern is his unwillingness to accept anything other than a huge run. He tends to go for the big play instead of taking the yards there. When you're holding a lead and trying to kill the clock, this is awful.
Also, Harrison is awful as a goalline back. He doesn't have the vision required there. In most situations, he is able to hit the hole because of his burst, but on the goalline, there is much less time for him to do so.
While his size in itself is not an issue for me, his durability and stamina both are. As those last three games came down to the wire, I believe Harrison was wearing down at the end of the game. He became much less affective and it was clear that he needed a break. Note that in 2009, he averaged only 3.9 YPC in the 4th quarter.
Honestly, Harrison's performance at the end of the season has been exaggerated as well. He dominated against KC; that can't be denied. But against the Raiders and Jaguars, he averaged only 3.8 yards per carry. Also notice that the teams he played against had the 31st, 29th, and 19th run defenses. He was hardly playing against stellar competition.
Lastly, I see people speaking of a "feature back". I think that with a few possible exceptions, the feature back is a thing of the past. For the most part, teams are going to be using running back committees to keep runners fresh and healthy. This is what the Browns will do this year, and it will work.
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#gmstrong
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I actually think it's completey unfair to judge him at this point. Except to say that when he's been called upon, he's produced..
But it's an opinion so that's cool.
The stuff about Hardesty taking the top spot,, Hey,, if he earns it, I'm good..
But he's yet to earn it. I'll wait.
#GMSTRONG
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Height on a RB is useless. Honestly, I think the shorter a running back is, the better.
However, I firmly believe that Harrison is not a feature back. But, for me, this has nothing to do with his size. It is about his abilities as a runner.
Harrison has great agility, quickness, and burst. My concern is his unwillingness to accept anything other than a huge run. He tends to go for the big play instead of taking the yards there. When you're holding a lead and trying to kill the clock, this is awful.
Also, Harrison is awful as a goalline back. He doesn't have the vision required there. In most situations, he is able to hit the hole because of his burst, but on the goalline, there is much less time for him to do so.
While his size in itself is not an issue for me, his durability and stamina both are. As those last three games came down to the wire, I believe Harrison was wearing down at the end of the game. He became much less affective and it was clear that he needed a break. Note that in 2009, he averaged only 3.9 YPC in the 4th quarter.
Honestly, Harrison's performance at the end of the season has been exaggerated as well. He dominated against KC; that can't be denied. But against the Raiders and Jaguars, he averaged only 3.8 yards per carry. Also notice that the teams he played against had the 31st, 29th, and 19th run defenses. He was hardly playing against stellar competition.
Lastly, I see people speaking of a "feature back". I think that with a few possible exceptions, the feature back is a thing of the past. For the most part, teams are going to be using running back committees to keep runners fresh and healthy. This is what the Browns will do this year, and it will work.
Statistics do not prove anything.
First..... I do not agree that Harrison has poor vision. I think it along with him being able to be at full speed quickly out of his cuts are his greatest assets.
Okay he is not a pile driver and may not be best suited to his abilities on the goal line, but not for lack of vision.
As far as Harrison running out of gas at the end of games......I did not see it that way at all, in fact he seemed to get stronger and was still exerting his will on the defense even after 30+ carries.
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Again, we'll see.
I've seen a lot more of Hardesty than probably most on here. He has all the abilities that Harrison has plus some. He is agile and has a good running style. He's neither a true batter ram or an overly agile player. He's just damn good and has a lot of skills to get the job done. His vision is also very, VERY good.
I have 100% confidence in Hardesty. He'll be "the guy" by the end of the year.
you had a good run Hank.
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Also.. please don't forget about James Davis.. He will produce!! He won't get a lot of opportunity.. but we have THREE RB's who are all very talented. Spread the rock around.. Similar to how the cowgirls do with Barber, Jones, and that Georgia Tech guy.
As much as I agree with you and loved the James Davis pick ... Im starting to wonder how we could possibly split carries in a backfield that could be considered crowded. Obviously big question marks with ALL of our backs (injury history or no proof of NFL success) ... but if you give out 10-15 carries a game to both harrison and hardesty ... then try to get hillis 5 to 10 and then try to get James davis in the fold as well ... as exciting as this can be come the cold winter months ... are we really gonna run the ball 40 to 50 times a game every game? I cant imagine our young defense would like that 
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You forgot to mention durability... he has yet to play a complete season. It'll be a two-back system because it needs to be a two-back system. Neither Hardesty or Harrison win the Work-Horse prize, but they'll both be able to produce if they can stay on the field. Working each with limited carries will help do that.
Who cares who's the so called "number 1 back"? Really. Play to their strengths, put up yards, get TD's, give Delhomme options and open up the WR's. That's what we need from these guys, not a useless, archaic designation. If anyone is confused they can buy two jerseys.
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Harrison's performance at the end of the '09 season was impressive and certainly was the focal point of the four-game winstreak. I don't think anybody could effectively maintain that number of carries per game (nearly 40 per game for the last 3 games) over a 16-game schedule and we are looking for games beyond the regular season.
But then again, why should he have to average that many carrries every game? He had high numbers of carries per game at the end of the season because: (1) there was no passing game; (2) the running game was not that great, either, until Harrison took over. In other words, he got his chance out of necessity -- and he responded.
But look at what has been added since then. Delhomme at qb is being counted on tio establish some type of passing game. IF he is successful -- which I expect him to be -- the rb's will not have as many carries per game. Hillis can carry the ball effectively. HIs NFL performance record includes a 100-yard rushing game and a 100-yard receiving game in the same season. Hardisty looks like he will be able to play well in the NFL. I think the only thing the Browns may require of their rb's is that their last names begin with H.
It's going to take someone special to be #4 on the rb depth chart -- or #3 if you carry Hillis as a fb.
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You forgot to mention durability... he has yet to play a complete season. It'll be a two-back system because it needs to be a two-back system. Neither Hardesty or Harrison win the Work-Horse prize, but they'll both be able to produce if they can stay on the field. Working each with limited carries will help do that.
Who cares who's the so called "number 1 back"? Really. Play to their strengths, put up yards, get TD's, give Delhomme options and open up the WR's. That's what we need from these guys, not a useless, archaic designation. If anyone is confused they can buy two jerseys.
BINGO.......
All winning franchises draft RB's even if they have the NFL rushing leader already on their team. You might even call it a winning attitude.
We have added another weapon to our offense
How can that be bad?
It's like some of you would just throw Harrison to the wolfs. When we are clearly stronger with both 
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I think calling someone "the feature back" or "#1 back" is more of a thing for fantasy football. The more successful teams the last few years have had multiple backs handle the workload.
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
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Stats can be useless, but in this case, they are not. I really don't see how these can be misinterpreted or manipulated at all.
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Stats can be useless, but in this case, they are not. I really don't see how these can be misinterpreted or manipulated at all.
After he had already carved the defense up for big runs in the 1st 3 quarters I think I can live with a less YPC average in the 4th so long as we still moved the chains and eat up the clock......
Now if he was to have an overall average that equaled less then 4 yards per carry then you could point to your stats and say he is not getting it done.
However this is now a moot point if we have another option in Hardesty.....most Coach's like to keep a RB's carry per game to 25 APG
Hmmm.......maybe the stats you mention did have credence after all with the FO. They knew that relying on 1 horse to pull the load was not a profitable venture because no team wants to rely on a RB to have 30+ APG.
That is in no way showing a lack of confidence in Harrison's abilities by drafting Hardesty imo.
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Agree on "the" feature back focus. we don't think Mack OR Byner.....we think Mack AND Byner.
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j/c...
I personally want a RB who is trying to get the big play EVERY snap... nothing wrong with that.
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