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NEVER...And I mean NEVER...Never install ANY type of flooring around kitchen cabinets or fixtures in a bathroom...NEVER...
Why???
10 years from now when new cabinets or fixtures are needed...If there are different sizes installed u will have GAPS and NEVER be able to match the existing flooring...
ALWAYS tile or floor the entire area UNDER all cabinets or fixtures...
Absolutely, Not sure why DC said to tile or laminate up to the cabinits but my Buddy did this a few years ago and last year when his dishwasher quit we had to just about tear down his house to get it out. I'mjust sayin.
I disagree.
Are you prepared to pull out all of your cabinets in order to tile or put laminate under them?
Also, if you change your cabinets in 10 years, it's probably time to re do the floors anyway, not?
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Dammit dawgtalkers, you have me freaked out.
I'm going to be installing engineered hardwood throughout a condo me and the gf bought. I was all set to do the whole thing and then I read this and now I'm paranoid.
At the end of the day, I'm still going to lay the floor first but all cabinetry will be on legs to allow the floor to expand and contract easier.
I think....
Ahh, european style cabinets,, nice.. if you get some good quality stuff, they are great looking.. almost like pieces of furniture..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm going to pay someone probably anyways..lol.
and me as well ... eventually.
Muni referenced the Trafficmaster Allure vinyl flooring and I recently put that down in my kitchen. I want tile and new cabinets and Dawg in Dayton's instruction to lay a complete floor with everything on top of it is dead on. I don't have the money this year for that type of improvement so Allure's plank flooring was a perfect fit. Imvho it is respectable for the price (I think it was around $2.50 a sq ft). Styles range from imitation wood plank to the 1' x 3' "tile" planks that I chose (simulates 1' x 1' tile). All you need is a utility knife and a square. It is a floating floor and each plank has a glue tab at an end and a side. The install was secure and it laid down nicely.
It looks to be durable and I plan to go with the tile floor and cabinets in 3 to 5 years (after the new privacy fence, repaved driveway and any unplanned expenses).
Allure should cut me a check for the plug. 
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I've installed one of those floors. *Extremely* easy to work with, and once you learn the basics of ensuring tight seams, it goes in really fast, too. Only one counter point, and that is the cost. For that same $2.50/sq.ft., I was able to install porcelain tile... so Trafficmaster is really a savings only in time and effort. The tile I used at Lowe's
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Dammit dawgtalkers, you have me freaked out.
I'm going to be installing engineered hardwood throughout a condo me and the gf bought. I was all set to do the whole thing and then I read this and now I'm paranoid.
At the end of the day, I'm still going to lay the floor first but all cabinetry will be on legs to allow the floor to expand and contract easier.
I think....
If this is a Floating engineered floor that clicks together you must make sure that the cabinets are not pinning it down at all. They must be up from it, an 1/8 th inch is enough. Its not about expansion or contraction, floating floors are like a big sheet of plywood when assembled, meaning if there is a slight high spot in the center of your floor, and the cabinets are holding it down to one side, the other end of the room will be like a springboard, boing boing boing every time you walk across. This is very important.
If its glue down you can go right under no problem, floating floors must be allowed to float.
Make sure to spend time leveling your subfloors carefully, because any furniture or appliances etc that weigh it down will also cause the same issue.
And I have to say, as a pro, for a kitchen refinish, I strongly recomend tile.
Your gonna have a waterleak somewhere, be it fridgeline, new sink, dishwasher whatever. Especially if your doing part of the work, ( no offense/ I dont do my own plumbing) The kitchen is a wet area, not the best place for wood overall, although I do a lot of naildown kitchens, I personally would not install a floating floor in the kitchen or anywhere but especially in the kitchen.
Last edited by RageDawg; 08/05/10 06:53 PM.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Dayton's instruction to lay a complete floor with everything on top of it is dead on.
No offense, but people that dont do something for a living should not give advice like this, There are many many types of materials, and many subfloor scenarios where this would be a costly mistake.
Fastened floors can go under pretty much safely, floating floors never. Fastened wood should not go under, its to susceptible to water damage.
Tile can safely go over, but good luck replacing the tiles later when your trying to chisel out that last one by hand.
Think of people you know, how many people change their cabinetry more than once in their ownership of a home. Now how many people do you know that have changed flooring more than once ?
Last edited by RageDawg; 08/05/10 06:51 PM.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
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NEVER...And I mean NEVER...Never install ANY type of flooring around kitchen cabinets or fixtures in a bathroom...NEVER...
Why???
10 years from now when new cabinets or fixtures are needed...If there are different sizes installed u will have GAPS and NEVER be able to match the existing flooring...
ALWAYS tile or floor the entire area UNDER all cabinets or fixtures...
Absolutely, Not sure why DC said to tile or laminate up to the cabinits but my Buddy did this a few years ago and last year when his dishwasher quit we had to just about tear down his house to get it out. I'mjust sayin.
I disagree.
Are you prepared to pull out all of your cabinets in order to tile or put laminate under them?
Also, if you change your cabinets in 10 years, it's probably time to re do the floors anyway, not?
Arch, He doesn't have his cabinets in yet. I redid a house in Florida that I own and ordered the floor from Home Depot and the Cabs from a shop down the road. The floor was suposed to be delivered in a week. The cabs in 2 weeks. The Cabs came on time and the floor took just short of 4 weeks to come .The wife was bitching non-stop about doing dishes in the bathtub ( is that gross ) . So yes I hung the cabs put in the sink and laid the floor up to the Cabs. My own fault for wrecking out the old Cabs before the floor arived.
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Legend
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 Here's our kitchen when we bought this house 10 1/2 years ago. The top picture is facing to the north, north east. Notice the wood burning stove. The second picture is facing to the north, north west........that's all the cabinetry there was. Notice the sliding glass door in the "middle" of each picture - for reference sake.  Here's part of the work I did - removing the wood burner, the bricks.....then I put on dry wall after..........  The finished kitchen - from 10 1/2 years ago. The first pic is taken at the same angle as the first pic in the first photo (does that make sense?). The second pic here is taken at the same angle as the second photo from above. Now, i did add a wall cabinet in the top picture here - it evened it out much better. Also, the wall paper is gone - wife tore that down a couple of years ago and painted in a totally different scheme/color. Now, all of these pictures were taken from the dining room. Notice we "had" blue carpet in the kitchen originally, when we bought the house. The linoleum was laid under everything - or more correctly, it was laid prior to me installing the cabinets. Just this week we had new vinyl put in - OVER the old, and up to the cabinets. There was no way in hell I was taking those things out to put the floor in so it could go under the cabinets. Nope. We also extended the vinyl to "this" side of the bar. The stools aren't in any of the pictures, but imagine the near side of the counter....the counter top extends out, and that's where we eat most of the time. The stools, until this week, sat on the carpet....as of now, we have about a 24 inch to 30 inch strip of vinyl on "this" side of the bar as well. And we put new carpet in the dining room.
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Legend
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Heck, as long as I'm posting pics, may as well show this one:  My wife was a Chief's fan prior to us meeting........she hand drew this for me one year, a long time ago, on poster board. Colored it with colored pencils. Then cut it out and put in on a black background, framed it, and gave it to me. It's still here - in my office, right behind me. (#4 was my number in high school) Anyway.......memory lane, right? 
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I've installed one of those floors. *Extremely* easy to work with, and once you learn the basics of ensuring tight seams, it goes in really fast, too.
Only one counter point, and that is the cost. For that same $2.50/sq.ft., I was able to install porcelain tile... so Trafficmaster is really a savings only in time and effort.
The tile I used at Lowe's
I agree. The trade off is the ease of installation. Lay, cut and replace the quarter round. Very simple and fast ..... perfect for my limited talents. 
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Dayton's instruction to lay a complete floor with everything on top of it is dead on.
No offense, but people that dont do something for a living should not give advice like this, There are many many types of materials, and many subfloor scenarios where this would be a costly mistake..
No offense taken Rage. I was only agreeing that installing a floor around existing cabinetry, etc. creates expense and more work during future remodeling. Perhaps I should have been more clear.
I own a modest Cape Cod and when I do replace the cabinets and the aforementioned vinyl floor it will likely be the last time for me. Certainly not going wall to wall would be less expensive. I'll listen to the trained professional who is going to do the work and decide from there. 
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Legend
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Dayton's instruction to lay a complete floor with everything on top of it is dead on.
No offense, but people that dont do something for a living should not give advice like this, There are many many types of materials, and many subfloor scenarios where this would be a costly mistake.
Fastened floors can go under pretty much safely, floating floors never. Fastened wood should not go under, its to susceptible to water damage.
Tile can safely go over, but good luck replacing the tiles later when your trying to chisel out that last one by hand.
Think of people you know, how many people change their cabinetry more than once in their ownership of a home. Now how many people do you know that have changed flooring more than once ?
So true. Replacing a cracked tile that is half way under a cabinet would be a PITA.
On the other hand, I wish tilers down here would tile to the wall, then the baseboard go over, but instead they tile to the baseboard and grout the gap which cracks.  Damn blow-and-go construction these days.
had a leak in the shower wall, had to pull the baseboard on the backside, it was tucked down 1/2 behind the tile, tore it apart getting it off and out, now to replace it, I'm most likely going to have to redo all the base in the room as I don't think I'll ever get it back down in the gap and set right. So I'm going to redo it all and set it atop the tile.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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I agree.. I got mentioned multiple times for not knowing what I was talking about with laying flooring under cabinetry.. what do I know, I've only been doing commercial and residential construction management for 17 years... 
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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never doubted you for a minute DC!
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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It's not click together, its glue together...but not glue down.
There's far too many differing schools of thought on this. I understand the point about weight not allowing things to float but under that logic, nothing could be placed on a floating floor.
That dog don;t hunt.
Going to call flooring manufacturer and just ask them flat out.
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Legend
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This is from Bruce Hardwood flooring's Hardwood/Engineered/Laminate flooring installation instructions. Quote:
IV. INSTALLING THE FLOOR
General Installation Tips
NOTE: When installing UNFINISHED engineered flooring, allow a minimum of 72 hours adhesive curing time before applying seals,
stains and finishes to unfinished flooring. Test the moisture content of the wood in accordance with the stain/finish manufacturer’s
recommendations.
• Do not staple or mechanically fasten products that exceed 5″ (13 cm) in width.
• Floor should be installed from several cartons at the same time to ensure good color and shade mixture.
• When possible, preselect and set aside boards that blend best with all horizontally mounted moldings used to assure a uniform
final appearance. Install these boards adjoining the moldings.
• Be attentive to staggering the ends of the boards at least 4″–6″ (10–15 cm), when
possible, in adjacent rows (Figure 4). This will help ensure a more favorable overall
appearance of the floor.
• When installing engineered products of uniform length, begin the rows with starter
boards cut to various lengths. Avoid staggering the rows uniformly to prevent
stair-stepping. Boards cut from the opposite end of the row may be used for the
next starter boards.
• Always allow a minimum 1/4″ (6 mm) expansion around all vertical obstructions.
Allow 1/2″ (13 mm) for floating floors.
"AROUND all vertical obstructions" ie: cabinets.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Called manufacturer and the cabinets first side wins. They say that it creates too much of a pinch point and, as such, the flooring should be laid around the cabinets, not on top of.
Makes my life a bit harder but hell, I'll figure it out.
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Legend
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the flooring should be laid around the cabinets, not on top of.
if you are laying flooring on top of your cabinetry, you may want to re-consult the professionals 
#gmstrong
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the flooring should be laid around the cabinets, not on top of.
if you are laying flooring on top of your cabinetry, you may want to re-consult the professionals
 As I said, I'm inexperienced..... good one no logo.
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Legend
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Actually it will make your life easier.. you won't have to worry about tearing up your new floor with the cabinets, you can now shim the cabinets as you need to so they are nice and level and the shims will be hidden by the flooring, you will need to buy less flooring, and the molding on the toe kick of the cabinets will still conceal the joint where the flooring meets the cabinet.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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and the molding on the toe kick of the cabinets will still conceal the joint where the flooring meets the cabinet.
Exactly why, when I have done windows, floors, cabinets, etc, I refuse to work if my wife is watching............she doesn't understand what trim is for.
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Amen brother. I will not let my wife see a project that is half done because I will get 8000 questions about how bad something looks when I know that stuff isn't done yet and still needs work..... drives me nuts.
yebat' Putin
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ROFL... I almost got a divorce over wainscoating and chair rail. She just couldn't understand what I was doing and was trying to instruct me on the proper way, complaining about the top edge of the wainscoat, and how it floated 1/2 off the floor(Which the base was intended to cover). Wow that was a day I think I barely survived. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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ROFL... I almost got a divorce over wainscoating and chair rail. She just couldn't understand what I was doing and was trying to instruct me on the proper way, complaining about the top edge of the wainscoat, and how it floated 1/2 off the floor(Which the base was intended to cover).
I've been there bud. Plenty of times. Now, painting is another story - and my wife is right in that story.
Wow that was a day I think I barely survived.
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I wont steer you wrong 4 advice. I am surprised they still make the glue together tongue style. I havent seen that type of Pergo for nearly 10 years.
It doesnt make the job harder really especially for floating, just think of it as a wall, no harder than anywhere else where you will have to make a rip cut.
Heres a couple general pointers for you to get started.
1 the longest outside wall of your house is typically the one that will be the most squre with the rest of your house. And therefore a good place to start.
Its where the framers made all their measurements from.
2 get the matching cabinet trim for the edges that will but against the sides of your cabinet. You wont be able to cut them perfectly, but behind trim you will never see. The fronts get either cove or a matching toe plate that covers the edge there.
3. Depending upon your layout and wether or not you have help, it is much quicker to start a Pergo job in the middle ( assuming you can square it up) and have each person go in different directions.
Im way far away, but feel free to ask any questions you have. B glad to give any advice I can.
1 more thing. Floating floors are very hollow and clicky sounding when you walk on them, espcially women in heels, the better the padding underlayment you get, the less hollow and clicky it will be.
Brands with the padding already stuck to the board are a very very good way to go, and will take a couple hours off a job even for me.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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I agree.. I got mentioned multiple times for not knowing what I was talking about with laying flooring under cabinetry.. what do I know, I've only been doing commercial and residential construction management for 17 years...
Most construction managers I know dont know much more about construction than the mexicans cutting the grass. There skill set usually is more homeowner smoothover, Not saying thats u, just a comment on the skillset of typical east coast big builder managers.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Legend
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You have a point. I've done everything from office fit up to $100 million airport renovations and more than once I've been yelled at for being out in the field observing and talking to the tradesmen when I should have been at my computer.. I love to learn the tricks of the trade from the pros and I'm darn good at most things at this point.. my shortcoming is the finish coat of drywall mud.. not sure I'll ever be good at that.
yebat' Putin
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I like working for guys like you. We have the random guy here or there that really puts forth the effort to understand whats going on from something other than the if I get it done on time I get a bonus angle.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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2nd String
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my shortcoming is the finish coat of drywall mud.. not sure I'll ever be good at that.
Not knocking you, but, I love hearing that. Kind of a job security thing. I've been finishing for 20+ years. I get to make a living doing two of my favorite childhood things, playing in mud and playing with knives.
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my shortcoming is the finish coat of drywall mud.. not sure I'll ever be good at that.
Not knocking you, but, I love hearing that. Kind of a job security thing. I've been finishing for 20+ years. I get to make a living doing two of my favorite childhood things, playing in mud and playing with knives.
I just do a ton of textured finishes on my walls .......
Both my dining room and the eat in part of my kitchen look like leather on the walls.
The hallway to the upstairs has a scratchcoat appearance to it.
My bedroom has a swirl texture on the walls.
I would love to be able to finish drywall nicely .... but that. along with plumbing, seem to be beyond my abilities.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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I can finish drywall...As long as I don't have to match anything existing. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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2nd String
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Both my dining room and the eat in part of my kitchen look like leather on the walls.
The hallway to the upstairs has a scratchcoat appearance to it.
I was wondering if that was by choice.
Then I read this,
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seem to be beyond my abilities
I believe I have an answer.
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Legend
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Actually, it was by choice, and it does look good .....
However, I did start out with the intention of having everything nice and smooth ...... but after way too much time screwing around and failing to get everything right, I went with the various textures instead.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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