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We'll see. I have my doubts about Jake as well. However, considering our QB play last year would have had to improve just to merely suck this year, the standard for Jake won't be all that high, IMO. In a way, that could be a good thing because the pressure on the QB won't be as high and he can play a more relaxed game which will help. He was CLEARLY pressing last season and his performance really suffered as a result. If we get "Average Jake" this year, we'll still be ahead of where we were last year.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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If we can keep Jake in good situations with our running game, special teams and defense where he doesn't feel like he has to throw for 350 and 3 TDs every week for us to have a chance then I think he'll be fine. By "fine" I mean serviceable.
yebat' Putin
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This move screams Dilfer to me, and he was about the worst QB I have see play for us (not counting DA here).
It pretty much took Delhomme having the worst year of his career to approach sinking to Dilfer's level of play.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The way I see it, it doesn't take an all-star quarterback to hand the ball off almost every play (which is what I see happening for most of the year). It'll be ugly if Jake has to air it out, but the game will already have been ugly if he's put into that situation.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I don't see it as ugly if he has to air it out... he did quite Ok for many, many years in Carolina when he pretty much had only Steve Smith to throw to.
With our OLine and what is looking to be a Top 5 running game, and we've got two good pass catching TE's - as long as our receivers continue to make the strides they've been making - he's going to be just fine even if we have to air it out.
The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that we're going to have a pretty effective offense this season. We won't be Top 10 or anything, but I could see a Top 16, middle-of-the-pack Offense happening. That's quite an improvement over what we endured last season.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Preface: I'm no football guru. I don't know about those rankings. I think once the season starts, and the bodies start flying we'll see where this offense really is (slightly worse than average with the running game dragging the passing game through each Sunday). I think we'll be significantly improved from last year, but it will look the same, as in the running game pulling most of the weight. I think the passing game will have signs of life, as opposed to totally dead like last year. Much has been made of the Wallace-Cribbs-Harrison trickery package being put together, but I really wonder how much of that we'll see on Sundays. In fear of being called the wet blanket, I have to say I'm REALLY excited for this season. I'm excited to have Rogers back on the D-line and getting moved around (Rogers is one of my favorite players). I'm excited to see one of our "long-shots" get upgraded to "head-turner"  I'm excited for our secondary. An upgrade of that magnitude will not go unnoticed. I'm excited for our defense, and cautiously optimistic for our offense.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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With our OLine and what is looking to be a Top 5 running game
Let's not get ahead of ourselves...
Carolina
New York
New York
Baltimore
Miami
Tennessee
Dallas
Minnesota
These are all pretty good running teams. Baltimore and Dallas have a couple question marks on the O-Line right now, but we have a way to go before we call ourselves top-5.
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I don't see it as ugly if he has to air it out... he did quite Ok for many, many years in Carolina when he pretty much had only Steve Smith to throw to.
Muhsin Muhammad as well as multiple receiving RBs and FBs over the years not withstanding, of course.
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I'm sort of in agreement with you, the thought of Jake throwing it a little doesn't scare me at all. If we are down by a bunch and trying to comeback and he's throwing it all over the field, then bad things are likely to happen but that is the case for most QBs...
yebat' Putin
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I don't see it as ugly if he has to air it out... he did quite Ok for many, many years in Carolina when he pretty much had only Steve Smith to throw to.
Muhsin Muhammad as well as multiple receiving RBs and FBs over the years not withstanding, of course.
And I would counter that aside from Steve Smith, anything that he had - including Muhsin - is nothing that we don't have here, and I believe that we've got more of it. Muhsin is good, but not great.
I'm fairly certain that he's never had a pair of very good pass catching TE's, nor as many receiving options... nor a Cribbs.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. There isn't a WR on the roster right now that is close to what Muhammed was when Jake played with him.
And who are our pair of pass catching TE's? The one that NE let get away and a guy that is still a bit of an unknown in Moore?
Your excitement is getting the better of you.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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No, I don't think so. I think I'm actually quite level headed in my statements.
Watson is extremely solid, and by himself better than most any, if not every, TE that Delhomme ever had. Moore has clearly shown himself to be an above average receiving target at TE, his lone question appears to be blocking and that is more of a "lets wait and see" and less of a "he can't/won't do it" thing.
Muhsin - I would say that MoMass equates to him right now. The only difference is that Muhsin has done it, while MoMass is getting ready to do it. Considering what he did last year with the most anemic passing offense that I've ever even heard of, he's going to be at minimum as good as Muhsin. If you want to get picky and compare rookie seasons, however, then it's hands down MoMass as the winner... but I think we both know the folly in that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think Jake is going to be solid! Thats all we want, if you notice if we had any kinda QB last year and I mean, not throwing 10 feet over guys heads & or at someone's ankles. We would have been allot better. Jake is allot better. I am excited 
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With our OLine and what is looking to be a Top 5 running game
Let's not get ahead of ourselves...
Carolina
New York
New York
Baltimore
Miami
Tennessee
Dallas
Minnesota
These are all pretty good running teams. Baltimore and Dallas have a couple question marks on the O-Line right now, but we have a way to go before we call ourselves top-5.
we were a top8 running team last year with Jamal Lewis starting over half the year and defenses having zero respect for our passing game.
i can see Baltimore and Dallas spending more time passing to their new toys, which might allow them to drop in running rankings a tad.
tennessee is a chris johnson injury away from a plummet.
et cetera
it's not likely, but it certainly is feasible for things to break our way and have a top5 rushing attack.
#gmstrong
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A lot of it is going to come down to this, quite simply, can we stay in games and keep running the football or will we be abandoning the run and throwing the ball all over the field because we're down by 3 scores... if we can stay in a lot of games, I don't see any reason we couldn't be top... top... top 8.. 
yebat' Putin
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I know it sounds horrible of me, but I really hope Wallace beats Delhomme out.
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Muhsin - I would say that MoMass equates to him right now. The only difference is that Muhsin has done it, while MoMass is getting ready to do it. Considering what he did last year with the most anemic passing offense that I've ever even heard of, he's going to be at minimum as good as Muhsin. If you want to get picky and compare rookie seasons, however, then it's hands down MoMass as the winner... but I think we both know the folly in that.
I think you need to keep the Nike's in the box and step away from the koolaid.
Muhsin Muhammed was a stud in his day. A physical force with decent speed who could box out a CB at a level just under Michael Irvin.
He's caught more than a 100 balls in a season. He's also had a 1400 yard season and he had 16 TDs that year.
He was voted First Team All-Pro.
Muhsin Muhammed was a stud and was a very good WR in this league for a decade.
MoMass had 34 catches for 624 yards and 3 TDs last year. He's not even in the same area code right now as an athlete or a player no matter how much I want him to be.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
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But Muhammed as he relates to Delhomme didn't get to Carolina until he was 35, well on the downside of his career. Its not like he spent his prime years there.
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I know it sounds horrible of me, but I really hope Wallace beats Delhomme out.
Why?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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But Muhammed as he relates to Delhomme didn't get to Carolina until he was 35, well on the downside of his career. Its not like he spent his prime years there.
Ok. You got me there. 
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But Muhammed as he relates to Delhomme didn't get to Carolina until he was 35, well on the downside of his career. Its not like he spent his prime years there.
Ok. You got me there.
No, he doesn't have you there.
Delhomme and Muhammad played together in Carolina when Muhammad was 30 years old (in 2003) and he caught 54 passes. Stephen Davis and Deshaun Foster caught 40 passes combined out of the backfield. FB Nick Goings caught another 12 and wideout Ricky Proehl caught 27, while S Smith caught 88.
They had weapons and won the NFC.
In 2004, when Muhammad was 31 years old he caught 93 passes from Delhomme. (his 2nd best career year in receptions and first in rec yards)Backs caught over 70 passes out of the backfield and Proehl had 34 receptions and Keary Colbert had 47. And Smith had 103.......
In 2005, Muhammad went to Chicago......then came back to Carolina in 2008 when he was 35 years old.....blah blah blah, blah blah blah.......
web page
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it's funny how some folks forget that Mohammad spent time with Carolina.. He had a great career there and that's why he got the big bucks to go to Chicago.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The Browns running game was deceptive last year.....yes it racked up some yards in the last half of the season,but how many rushing TDS did the running game produce?
The Browns running game was not that efficent inside the 20's.....
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The Browns running game was deceptive last year.....yes it racked up some yards in the last half of the season
Deceptive or not, it still produced good yardage and we won 4 of those games.
It was old fashion football,,, run and run...and if all else fails, Run again.
I actually enjoyed what we did at the end of last year. I'd have no objection if we had 2 backs getting 2000 yards each in one year.. and another getting some more..
As long as it leads to wins,, I'm good to go.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The Browns running game was deceptive last year.....yes it racked up some yards in the last half of the season,but how many rushing TDS did the running game produce?
The Browns running game was not that efficent inside the 20's.....
We didn't get our 1st rushing TD until December against the Steelers. We ended up with 10.
#gmstrong
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Frank that was one my big concerns over the last so many years even when people started feeling better about our ground game. We still couldn't line up, needing 2 yards, and plow for 2 yards.. we couldn't do it. Toward the end of last season we ran in all situations, even when teams knew we were going to run, and we did it successfully, hopefully that is a good trend.
yebat' Putin
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Not to mention we now have a "jumbo" package with Hillis and Vickers that looks like it has the potential to get toughest yards when they are needed. (Hey add in Shaun Rogers to make a "super jumbo" package as has ben rumoured...LOL)
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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The Browns running game was deceptive last year.....yes it racked up some yards in the last half of the season
Deceptive or not, it still produced good yardage and we won 4 of those games.
It was old fashion football,,, run and run...and if all else fails, Run again.
Here we go again. We ran against the bottom teams against the run. They sucked.
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I actually enjoyed what we did at the end of last year. I'd have no objection if we had 2 backs getting 2000 yards each in one year.. and another getting some more..
As long as it leads to wins,, I'm good to go.
2 backs for 4000 yards........ 
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I actually enjoyed what we did at the end of last year. I'd have no objection if we had 2 backs getting 2000 yards each in one year.. and another getting some more..
As long as it leads to wins,, I'm good to go.
2 backs for 4000 yards........
Hey, I'd have no objection to that either. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think the 1st 2 weeks will tell alot about the Browns running game..
I know there is a strech where the Browns play some good stout run defenses..I think it starts in week 3...
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Here we go again. We ran against the bottom teams against the run. They sucked.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?a...e&Submit=Go
KC and Oakland had bad rushing defenses. near the bottom in the NFL.
JAX was mediocre. Pitt was stellar (no, it wasn't Harrison that game).
But, we put up FAR more rushing yards per game than any of these teams were giving up (well, not that many more vs. Pitt, but again, they were an elite rushing defense).
so, we were still doing better than MOST (or in KC's game all) other NFL teams did rushing against these teams.
Or let's put it this way. Denver and SD each got to face these terrible KC and OAK rush defenses 4 times last season. We finished well ahead of both teams in rushing rankings.
#gmstrong
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The Browns running game was deceptive last year.....yes it racked up some yards in the last half of the season
Deceptive or not, it still produced good yardage and we won 4 of those games.
It was old fashion football,,, run and run...and if all else fails, Run again.
Here we go again. We ran against the bottom teams against the run. They sucked.
So what's your point,, they put up the yards didn't they? They found a way to win didn't they.
I don't mind people being skeptical, that's fine I guess. But to just automatically dismiss an achievement such as that seems petty. But think what you wish.
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I actually enjoyed what we did at the end of last year. I'd have no objection if we had 2 backs getting 2000 yards each in one year.. and another getting some more..
As long as it leads to wins,, I'm good to go.
2 backs for 4000 yards........
Did you see me write that I thought it was possible, did you see me say it was likely.. NO, you didn't.. I merely commented that I'd be ok with it..IF IT LEAD TO WINS. are you saying you wouldn't be ok with it
It occurs to me that you are only beating on my comments because it's me saying it.., If that's the case,, be my guest, I can take it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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is probably closer to what the Browns run
You mean closer to what they ran LAST YEAR! You don't have any idea what the O will look like this season.
While we still have Daboll, we are missing the QB's from last year that appear to have had limited ability to perform,, otherwise one or both would still be here.
So, because of a lack of a good QB, do we really know what Daboll's offense really can do., Add in Gil Haskell and maybe a little touch of Holmgren and some new running backs, and the whole thing could be completely different than what we saw last year.
Since the premise for your post relies on the thought that we will run the same offense this year that we ran last year, I'd say the rest of your post has little to no value..
just sayin 
I agree you believe my post has no value yet you fail to get the meat of my post. I compare our offense we ran in 09 with the type of disciplined offense Jake had trouble adjusting to. Jake was formerly used to( it sounds like) going on the fly as he had a lot of lattitude to call plays and make adjustments because his OC in 08 trusted jake. When told to go a mores disciplined route Jake had trouble.
While I agree with your point I have and niether do you, for that matter Daman, have any idea what style of offense we will run I can be sure it will not allow Jake the freelance opportunities his 08 OC allowed. My entire post was Jake did poorly with a more scripted controlled OC and that is what he would more likely encounter here vs the kind of OC style he formerly thrived in. i stand by my logic to say jake may encounter similar problems. While i HOPE I may be wrong, to out of hand blame Rip Shearer former Cleveland QB coach for all of Jake's problems is well, scapegoating and poor logic yet you are free to do so and dismiss any opinion out of hand you do not agree with.
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You crack me up Joe,,, most every one of your post starts out with "I Agree" but truth be told, you don't agree at all... No No, I get what your saying about the Offense.. but I can't see how credible your thinking is given that we don't have the Same QB's, we are without the starting running back that opened the season last year, we aren't starting a Rookie Center this year, we aren't putting a primadonna WR out there. And so far we aren't starting two rookie WRs. So outside of JT, Stieny, Harrison and Cribbs and Vickers,, we are almost a completely different offense.. Was it the system Daboll wanted to run or the players he had to live with that caused the awful performance? Now,, having said all of that, I still can't guarantee Delhomme will be successful.. so sure, he could flop badly,, But Holmgren isn't an idiot. He knows he doesn't have 5 years to turn thing around. Do you think he and Heckert would go for a guy that is completely done? I don't.. further, do you think they'd have cut Anderson and traded Quinn if they thought either one had any real value? I don't. We'll begin the journey soon enough,, then we'll know for sure.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Here is to a fun year, I Hope!
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Here is to a fun year, I Hope!
absolutly,,, as always, I'm looking forward to seeing some football..
Hey,, why do they call it football,, you can't play it with one foot.. you need two feet,, so why not call it Feetball? just wondering
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You crack me up Joe,,, most every one of your post starts out with "I Agree" but truth be told, you don't agree at all...
I agree. Everything else you said is wrong. 
yebat' Putin
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You crack me up Joe,,, most every one of your post starts out with "I Agree" but truth be told, you don't agree at all...
I agree. Everything else you said is wrong.
Exactly correct,, in an incorrect kinda way 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Here we go again. We ran against the bottom teams against the run. They sucked.
But, we never even did that before!
We're World beaters now.
#gmstrong
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Jake was formerly used to( it sounds like) going on the fly as he had a lot of lattitude to call plays and make adjustments because his OC in 08 trusted jake. When told to go a mores disciplined route Jake had trouble.
That's not the way I read it.
Quote:
When Scherer took over as Panthers quarterbacks coach in 2009, he and offensive coordinator Jeff Davidson, a former Browns assistant, decided to implement a more structured approach to the passing game, with specific rules for where to throw the ball against certain coverages.
It sounded more to me like Jake was used to throwing to the open guy as he read the defense, but the new "specific rules for where to throw the ball against certain coverages" is where he had his trouble. It sounded to me like coach needed to know, for his own security, exactly where the ball was going vs. certain coverages rather than just letting Jake read the open man and throw it to him.
I could see Jake, or any QB not brought up in a system like that, having problems with it. It could create a hell of a lot of indecision when when what is needed is split-second decisions.
When the throw that the rule says he is to make is not open when it is supposed it would be, it may be too late now to throw to the guy who was open, the guy Jake would have thrown to in the first place had it not been for the "rule", and then the play breaks down or hasty throw for a pick may ensue.
It seems to me that it would be handcuffing the QB quite a bit. Especially one who has had plenty of success reading the defense and finding the open man with such "specific rules".
All I know is that Jake had some very good seasons. Even '08 was good until their last playoff game when he screwed that up. Then his entire '09 season sucked. Did something happen the morning of that bad playoff game that caused him to go bad for the rest of his career? Or is Shearer on to something when he says he tried to change Jake's style of play in '09 and that is what screwed up that season?
I don't know.
But damn near anything has to be better than what we trotted out there last season at the QB position. If Jake can't do it then Wallace is right behind him and Colt behind that. At least it's not the same two ineffective QB's we've been arguing about for the past couple of years. At least, at this point in time, unlike previous years, we don't have a QB controversy.
Yeah, our main man might be controversial in his own right as to whether or not he can cut it. But at this point in time we don't have two "wannabees-but-never-wills" to argue over.
That alone is a relief and something to look forward to.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jake Delhomme unlikely to have
repeat of disastrous 2009 season
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