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The real issue at quarterback is whether or not Mangini decides to keep Brett Ratliff as well as McCoy. "We have kept four in the past,'' said Mangini. "Quarterbacks are really valuable. Someone is always looking for one at some point. If you have an abundance of them, usually you can get real value for them if you are willing to move on from them. I've kept four and I've been on teams that have kept two.''
Thanks for posting, D-shot. I think Mangini let his true motives slip here. They're hoping to get something for Ratliff.
(like I mentioned earlier in the thread  )
When was EM in Indy,... 
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The real issue at quarterback is whether or not Mangini decides to keep Brett Ratliff as well as McCoy. "We have kept four in the past,'' said Mangini. "Quarterbacks are really valuable. Someone is always looking for one at some point. If you have an abundance of them, usually you can get real value for them if you are willing to move on from them. I've kept four and I've been on teams that have kept two.''
Thanks for posting, D-shot. I think Mangini let his true motives slip here. They're hoping to get something for Ratliff.
(like I mentioned earlier in the thread )
What if it's Wallace they think they can get something of value for?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Man, I would be bummed. I really like Wallace and would much rather have him than a 5th round pick.  Definitely seems like a possibility though... especially if Delhomme seems to have shaken his problems from last year.
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I still would not be the least surprised if they keep 4 QBs given that Wallace is expected to get regular snaps in every game.
If Delhomme and Wallace both play in every game (or almost every game) they run a greater risk of injury. If McCoy is not ready to be the legitimate backup in that event, then a 4th QB makes a great deal of sense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Man, I would be bummed. I really like Wallace and would much rather have him than a 5th round pick. Definitely seems like a possibility though... especially if Delhomme seems to have shaken his problems from last year.
As would I.. Maybe it's just me, but Wallace seems more than capable to start. I'd hate to see them ship him off.
For the first time in maybe 10 years, we have two qualified QB's.. Either of which I think we can win with.
We also have a young man that can improve and grow into a job. Either as a 1 or 2. And the luxury of time to grow him right,
It's almost a perfect storm.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I still would not be the least surprised if they keep 4 QBs given that Wallace is expected to get regular snaps in every game.
If Delhomme and Wallace both play in every game (or almost every game) they run a greater risk of injury. If McCoy is not ready to be the legitimate backup in that event, then a 4th QB makes a great deal of sense.
An extremely sensible outlook,... 
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I still would not be the least surprised if they keep 4 QBs given that Wallace is expected to get regular snaps in every game.
If Delhomme and Wallace both play in every game (or almost every game) they run a greater risk of injury. If McCoy is not ready to be the legitimate backup in that event, then a 4th QB makes a great deal of sense.
A 4th QB only makes a great deal of sense if he is better than McCoy.... Is Ratliff better than McCoy? If Wallace goes down and Delhomme goes down, and McCoy isn't ready.. is Ratliff ready?
But let's be honest and look at the long term facts as I understand them..
1. We aren't expecting to win anything serious this year.
2. If Delhomme AND Wallace go down, we will expect to win even less.. I don't care if we have McCoy, Ratliff or some other 4th string QB, we aren't going to win with him.
3. We have RBs and LBs that stand a better chance of making an impact and becoming part of our future that we are looking at possibly cutting and would be a better use of that roster spot.
So I can't really find any compelling reason to keep a 4th QB.
yebat' Putin
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What if it's Wallace they think they can get something of value for?
U think for a second Walrus who traded for Wallace would let Genius talk him into trading a guy who could start if need be ?
Nope..Ratliff would be the one to go..actually his butt should have been cut last year.
Bartell outplayed Quinn/Anderson/Ratliff in preseason but they didn't try to keep him.
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Bartell outplayed Quinn/Anderson/Ratliff in preseason but they didn't try to keep him.
Which tells you something.. is he even on a roster or in a camp right now?
yebat' Putin
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If Delhomme AND Wallace go down, we will expect to win even less.. I don't care if we have McCoy, Ratliff or some other 4th string QB, we aren't going to win with him.
Yet we had two duds at QB last year and still managed to win 4 in a row with a running game.
So it's not likely, but it is possible..
Putting that aside, I tend to think your right about not expecting much anyway, even less if wallace and Delhomme go down.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Bartel is on the Redskins.
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Yet we had two duds at QB last year and still managed to win 4 in a row with a running game.
So it's not likely, but it is possible..
Which is sort of my point.. if we can win by running the ball 35 times for 200 yards then either McCoy or Ratliff can do that.. if we need to win by throwing it 35 times for 350 yards then it's likely that NEITHER McCoy nor Ratliff can do that... so why keep them both?
yebat' Putin
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Also saves a roster spot somewhere else where it is needed, assuming Delhomme and Wallace stay healthy. You can always pick up a Ratliff or Bartel type if things go south.
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What if it's Wallace they think they can get something of value for?
U think for a second Walrus who traded for Wallace would let Genius talk him into trading a guy who could start if need be ?
Nope..Ratliff would be the one to go..actually his butt should have been cut last year.
Bartell outplayed Quinn/Anderson/Ratliff in preseason but they didn't try to keep him.
I said WHAT IF! No I don't think that Wallace is on the trading block... not at all.. I was posing a what if only.
I also think Ratliff is the one to go.
As for Bartel,,, he's either 3rd or 4th on the Redskins team that, according to Shanahan, may only carry two QB's.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/donovan-mcnabb/grossman-the-front-runner-to-b.html
He may get picked up and he may not. It might be that both Ratliff and Bartel both are on the street as Preseason comes to an end.
So keeping Bartel may have been meaningless..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Who's Shanahan fooling ? He's got his 1st stringer hurt,...he almost has to keep Bartel.
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What if it's Wallace they think they can get something of value for?
U think for a second Walrus who traded for Wallace would let Genius talk him into trading a guy who could start if need be ?
Nope..Ratliff would be the one to go..actually his butt should have been cut last year.
Bartell outplayed Quinn/Anderson/Ratliff in preseason but they didn't try to keep him.
Why do you always read things like it is Mangini's bad idea??
First, I haven't seen anything that even remotely says something like this is possible.....but let's say it is.....I could just as easily say Heckert is the guy with the idea....he is the GM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Who's Shanahan fooling ? He's got his 1st stringer hurt,...he almost has to keep Bartel.
Last I read, it's not a serious injury and he should be ready to go. Was there something more to his injury?
Keep in mind, that article was written on July 31st.. so it's a few weeks old now..
Last edited by Damanshot; 08/26/10 12:05 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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That's true, but I thought he was in one of those "boot casts" even last week. Doesn't mean it is serious though; they could just be playing "the injury game."
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Why do you always read things like it is Mangini's bad idea??
Why are U generalizing?
It's foolish to think Wallace would be let go unless a better QB option came up.
Oh and Genius hasn't had too many great ideas since he came here.
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Why do you always read things like it is Mangini's bad idea??
Why are U generalizing?
It's foolish to think Wallace would be let go unless a better QB option came up.
Oh and Genius hasn't had too many great ideas since he came here.
It's also foolish to misrepresent what was said..
As for whether or not Mangini has had any good ideas is left to interpretation.
You don't agree with some of or all of his moves, you think he hasn't made sound decisons.. That's not fact, it's your opinion.
On the other hand, some of us have put aside our personal misgivings and will allow for things to develop.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No,you're just afraid to evaluate what you see and then make a decision..I'm not..
I know what I see on the field ..if it sucks ..it sucks..if it's good ,it's good... ..therefore I can make a strong reasonable judgement..and some of these same people who you're lumping in with yourself have been vocal when they don't like something..
So I sure ain't concerned with any negative response that comes back.. color]
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No,you're just afraid to evaluate what you see and then make a decision..I'm not..
I know what I see on the field ..if it sucks ..it sucks..if it's good ,it's good... ..therefore I can make a strong reasonable judgement..and some of these same people who you're lumping in with yourself have been vocal when they don't like something..
So I sure ain't concerned with any negative response that comes back.. color]
Whatever.. you have obviously made your mind up,, you hate Mangini and every move he's made.. you don't take a moment to think beyond your knowledge base to understand that there could be other reasons.. you allow for no other thought to be accurate but yours..
Enjoy yourself
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c Colt not making the team, yeah right.  I would be shocked beyond belief if he is cut. He's Holmgren's pet project. And no way Wallace is on the trading block- too much time invested into the wildcat. That would be idiotic. And trading Ratliff- again, not going to happen, who would take him even for a late round pick? Maybe he makes it as the fourth QB, but i doubt they keep 4 guys when they have two competent QB's. There will be several QB's on the wire that could be picked up in a pinch. It would be a wasted roster spot to carry 4 QB's.
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Ding Ding, Big chicken dinner !
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j/c
Colt not making the team, yeah right.
I would be shocked beyond belief if he is cut. He's Holmgren's pet project.
And no way Wallace is on the trading block- too much time invested into the wildcat. That would be idiotic.
And trading Ratliff- again, not going to happen, who would take him even for a late round pick? Maybe he makes it as the fourth QB, but i doubt they keep 4 guys when they have two competent QB's. There will be several QB's on the wire that could be picked up in a pinch. It would be a wasted roster spot to carry 4 QB's.
I absolutely agree with you 100%..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm going to second the request to block this thread. It's nothing more than another Grossi attempt to create a story where there is none.....one of his worst attempts at that. How can someone who spends every day with this team not get a decent TRUE story? He should give up and write for the National Star.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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this is one of the worst articles i have read in a long time
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I'm going to second the request to block this thread. It's nothing more than another Grossi attempt to create a story where there is none.....one of his worst attempts at that. How can someone who spends every day with this team not get a decent TRUE story? He should give up and write for the National Star.
It's his job to create controversy......controversy sells news papers and Grossi is very good at what he does.
I am always amazed that so many take his rumors as fact.
He sells news papers and imo has a very low football IQ, because he sees everything in black & white 
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Whatever.. you have obviously made your mind up,, you hate Mangini and every move he's made  I don't hate anyone..but when it comes to sports and the Browns when whoever is in charge makes blunders and bad moves I point it out.
I don't pull any punches after I've given someone some time..I don't hate everything Gini has done but I certainly don't like everything..and he's made some blunders.
Plus like I said last year I don't feel he can truely evaluate talent and and take a football team to the next level.. you don't take a moment to think beyond your knowledge base to understand that there could be other reasons. My knowledge is pretty extensive and I use it ..and it's from sources be it inside info or others in different places who give me information...plus from just being around football for over a extended period of time.
I don't waffle back and forth ..I believe someone said a year ago some of us are capable of evaluating things and forming solid opinions and facts..if it bothers U ..oh well..
One of the main problems in here for years is that when someone has a strong opinon and stands by it ,even shows facts or evidence to support it ..some tend to get intimidated by it..if all the old posters(who left ) were still here right now,there would be huge battles,which I miss..and some of U woud be running for cover..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 08/27/10 08:17 AM.
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FL_Dawg, I agree it's his job to sell papers, which he does. But, he only gets it right about 60% of the time at best. That said however, he's more than half right on this one. I've been at more than 6 camps and taped the pre-games, so far he shows me about the same or less than Quinn did at this stage of the game. There were better players of need available on the boad at that pick and time.  I don't think they will release him though, to much ego at stake there. MH himself called that shot, over what I understand to be more than a couple of objections from everyone else in the room. They can't put him on the taxie/ps because he would have to pass waivers and you don't just let a 3rd rounded possibly get away.  What I see happening is McCoy makes the team as the #3 and Ratliff goes to the taxi/ps, if he passes waivers, which might not happen and we keep another OL/DL instead. If not, we just keep 4 Qb's and let it go at that.  If we do go the 4QB route, then that indicates to me that Colt was definetly the wrong pick at the #3 spot and might have not been taken until the 4th or 5th round or later. 
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FL_Dawg, I agree it's his job to sell papers, which he does. But, he only gets it right about 60% of the time at best. That said however, he's more than half right on this one. I've been at more than 6 camps and taped the pre-games, so far he shows me about the same or less than Quinn did at this stage of the game.
No doubt..... The game only comes to you when you can slow it down in your head, so yes at this juncture it's natural that you would see similarities.
MH, has stated that McCoy will not play this year unless in an emergency.
I will take him for his word there.
The proper development to go a long with the proper environment.
BQ never had the proper environment here and I think that the game has never slowed down for him in his head.
Development is the Key word here and I think MH feels confident he can develop Colt into a serviceable QB as he has done with Wallace.
I do not think he thinks he has drafted the next franchise QB.
If we keep 3 QB's then I think we try to pick a veteran from the ranks of the unemployed, if either Delhomme or Wallace is injured an will need to be put on the IR.
Ratliff I do not think is eligible for the PS.
There were better players of need available on the boad at that pick and time.
I don't think they will release him though, to much ego at stake there. MH himself called that shot, over what I understand to be more than a couple of objections from everyone else in the room. They can't put him on the taxie/ps because he would have to pass waivers and you don't just let a 3rd rounded possibly get away.
What I see happening is McCoy makes the team as the #3 and Ratliff goes to the taxi/ps, if he passes waivers, which might not happen and we keep another OL/DL instead. If not, we just keep 4 Qb's and let it go at that.
If we do go the 4QB route, then that indicates to me that Colt was definetly the wrong pick at the #3 spot and might have not been taken until the 4th or 5th round or later.
If we keep 4 QB's it will only mean that we will be carring 3 veteran QB's & one developmental.
I do not think that this will be the case unless Ratliff really turns it up and even then it would be doubtful, because you will be taking from another position.
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If we keep 4 QB's it will only mean that we will be carring 3 veteran QB's & one developmental.
I do not think that this will be the case unless Ratliff really turns it up and even then it would be doubtful, because you will be taking from another position.
From Mangini's press conference 8/25:
"Really, I work off of a sheet that I’ve had since I’ve been a head coach. It’s kind of a worksheet based on how many you keep by position, a miscellaneous category and then you have the ones that are in the far left and those are the ones that are going to be here, and then the next row are the ones pushing and the next row are the ones that are a second level then you have got a third level. As you go through OTAs, mandatory minicamp and training camp, you just keep slotting guys around. Different things pop up, so I’m always working off of the 53 and then there’s also an area for the 45. It’s not really just happening this week, it’s something that I look at every day or every other day and say, ‘Okay, with this injury, this changes. He has to go here, he has to go here. You put somebody in the miscellaneous category and now you have to take somebody out.’ It’s a way to take a lot of guys and put them in a very manageable way of looking at it and also projecting forward to the 45, not just 53.”
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Yeah, I can all most bet that Mangini or any other Coach for that matter does not want to carrier 4 QB's, even if it does not directly effect the 45 man active roster.
It can indirectly effect it.
Besides if you carry 4 QB's into the season it usually means you do not have a clear cut #1 QB or have players who you might be able to get something in return threw a trade.
I do not think other teams are talking to us about Ratliff.
If we do happen to retain 4 QB's it will only be due to an injury to one or both of are top 2 QB's.
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My main point was that keeping a 4th QB doesn't necessarily take away from another position as there is a Miscellaneous category.
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j/c
I sense a pending finger issue with McCoy that sends him to IR.
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Quote:
My main point was that keeping a 4th QB doesn't necessarily take away from another position as there is a Miscellaneous category.
My point is that a 4th QB is not a miscellaneous position. Those are reseved for ST players and someone you put on the 45 man active roster.
Like a 5th RB or a 6th CB or Safety for example.
I don't see how you can have a miscellaneous postion for a QB unless he plays on ST's.
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Ratciliff will be waived and either picked up bye another club, Good for him or reclaimed and put on our scout team.
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Colt wont make it if we cut him, someone will pick him up.
Brett wont be picked up, so he will be cut.
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I don't have confidence that Colt McCoy is going to be our future starter even sitting a few years. I just don't think he has what it takes. Will he be cut? IMO no, but if he was no one should be surprised.
Yes Holmgren picked him, but if the kid is really that bad (I'm not saying he is) and can't hit the broad side of the barn in games and/or practice then they would cut him.
In his last College game he was injured where he could not come back into the game. Has that injury fully healed? Did he lose some arm strength from that injury? If the answer is yes then I would not blame MH for picking the kid based on potential and then find out the potential isn't there once they got him in camp. It was a third round pick, not a first.
I don't think he will be cut this year. They will let him hold a clip board and re-evaluate him next year in camp. IMO, he will never be our starter unless there are injuries. Even though he had a scrub line in front of him he doesn't show the arm strength. Like others have said, he looks like another Frye/Quinn type quarterback and I don't think they are any teams long term solutions as well.
Based on how this season ends (which depends on the first two games IMO) will depend a lot on Colt's future. If we are not 2-0 to start the season then we are in trouble. If we can not beat Tampa and Kansas City then the next six games of CIN, BAL, ATL, PIT, NO, and NE are all going to be big L's. If we start the season 1-7 or 0-8 then forget about Colt, we will be drafting 1 or 2 and we will be drafting a Franchise QB in a rich QB draft next year.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
You think McCoy doesn't have it based on a few passes in Preseason playing with and against scrubs...
Look, you may be right, afterall a 3rd round pick QB is a long shot anyway.. so yeah, he may not make it in the league..
But a word of caution,, I remember Matt Hasslebeck playing poorly in GB in preseason. I can't find the stats, but I seem to remember he wasn't any better.
He was also handpicked by Holmgren to come to Seattle.
I guess what I'm saying is, the McCoy we see today isn't even remotely close to a finished product..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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