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a word of caution,, I remember Matt Hasslebeck playing poorly in GB in preseason. I can't find the stats, but I seem to remember he wasn't any better.
And I remember Charlie Frye looking like a stud in Cleveland in the preseason.  Just taking your analogy in a different direction.
I'm not saying Colt will Pan out, but man has he been forced to try and prove himself w/ crappy supoort. Pure crap. I'd like to see 2 possessions of him w/ the first stringers. Not gonna happen . . .
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I'm not a believer in McCoy, more based on what he did in all his years in Texas than what he's done in Cleveland, but you're absolutely right when you say he's had ZERO help in the little time he's been in the games. He's been assaulted in ways that would be considered criminal on the streets. Can't judge too much based on that, though just like with QUINN last year when he threw his deep balls out of bounds, there aren't any excuses for that bit of pathetic. And now Quinn is backing up Tebow, and in that game, he showed why. He held onto the ball way too long. Sure sounds familiar.
Thanks for Hillis, Denver! 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Difference being Charley had RAC, Matt had Holmgren 
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Colt wont make it if we cut him, someone will pick him up.
Brett wont be picked up, so he will be cut.
Has Colt earned the right to get snaps with the 1st team offense?
Will he be cut?
Will Mangini like it if he has to keep McCoy over his pet Ratliff?
If Mangini had control over this past draft would he have drafted McCoy?
Would his draft had looked anything like what we drafted?
Is Mangini a QB guru?
If MH was not hired to be the President of the Browns would we have Wallace as our #2 QB?
The answer to all of these questions is NO.
Would he had pulled the trigger on the trade with Denver that brought us Hillis? [Speculation] NO.
Would he had gone after Delhomme? [Speculation]
NO.
I think Mangini is still sulking over some of the picks we made last April.
McCoy will be getting Coaching, but not from the head Coach.
He doesn't seam to be as high on most of the picks as most of us fans are.
Except for Lauvao and Hardest, who I believe were probably guys he liked from our draft.
He is on record as stating he wanted Wilson [btw has looked good thus far in pre-season] over Haden @ CB and has been critical of Hadens play thus far.
I'm pretty confident he was not at all happy about drafting McCoy.
He needs to get over it and Coach the players that are provided to him.
This has been my pev with Mangini threw TC.
I think Mangini is still maturing as a Coach and do not believe he is a finished product as a Coach yet.
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I'm not a believer in McCoy, more based on what he did in all his years in Texas than what he's done in Cleveland, but you're absolutely right when you say he's had ZERO help in the little time he's been in the games. He's been assaulted in ways that would be considered criminal on the streets. Can't judge too much based on that, though just like with QUINN last year when he threw his deep balls out of bounds, there aren't any excuses for that bit of pathetic. And now Quinn is backing up Tebow, and in that game, he showed why. He held onto the ball way too long. Sure sounds familiar.
Thanks for Hillis, Denver!
Not for nothing,, But isn't McCoy the all time winningest QB in College history? I keep hearing that bantered about,, wondering if it's true and if so, what was it you didn't see?
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I watched the Broncos last game, and it was amazing the difference between Orton and Quinn.
Orton had a couple of plays where he got massive pressure, and used his legs to move around, buy time, and got the pass away.
Quinn came in for the play after Orton got crumpled on the sideline after the INT that wasn't ...... and went down like a sack of flour from pressure up the middle. No roll out ... just ..... confusion in the pocket, and sacked.
He had a total of 4 dropbacks, and was sacked twice .. and was 1-2 for 2 yards. Wow. I could do that.
I am so happy that we don't have to watch him doing that in a Browns uniform anymore.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm not a believer in McCoy, more based on what he did in all his years in Texas than what he's done in Cleveland, but you're absolutely right when you say he's had ZERO help in the little time he's been in the games. He's been assaulted in ways that would be considered criminal on the streets. Can't judge too much based on that, though just like with QUINN last year when he threw his deep balls out of bounds, there aren't any excuses for that bit of pathetic. And now Quinn is backing up Tebow, and in that game, he showed why. He held onto the ball way too long. Sure sounds familiar.
Thanks for Hillis, Denver!
Not for nothing,, But isn't McCoy the all time winningest QB in College history? I keep hearing that bantered about,, wondering if it's true and if so, what was it you didn't see?
And Archie Griffin is a two time Heisman winner. How was his pro career? Troy Smith...Eric Crouch anyone?? Good College Career doesn't mean a good Pro Career. And to answer your question to me in your other post about how I make my opinion of Colt on a few preseason games:
No, It's based off his College career playing in a gimmick offense and his camp/preseason play. I don't think he is NFL make up. But I'm not an NFL scout. However, why did he fall so far and get past so many teams that need a QB if he is such a great NFL prospect?
Mark it down, if we are drafting top 3 next year we will be drafting a QB.
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Yeah, D, he is the winning'est QB in college history, but that title does so much more harm than good because it sounds so grand yet is so meaningless in terms of the NFL.
Care to know who he passed to get the title? David Greene, the guy who was a mid-round pick of the Seahawks out of Georgia who played two years for them then one year for KC before he was out of the league. He never took an NFL snap.
Another example of how that kind of stat does more damage than good can be found with our former punching bag Ken Dorsey. For a time, he was THE winning'est QB in college football history in terms of winning percentage, yet clearly.....CLEARLY.....he didn't have the game to make it in the NFL.
Then there's the fact that in order to rack up the most wins in college history, you have to play the most games. McCoy started as a freshman and stayed through his senior year, which is something some of the best QB's in college.....and NFL......history never did.
So really, while those college wins are impressive on paper, they don't mean much in the NFL.
I'd rather not go into dissecting McCoy's game. What I will say is that living here in Austin allowed me to see him play more than I've ever seen any QB play on a weekly basis. I've seen how Mack Brown tailored the offense to fit what McCoy can do well while simultaneously hiding everything he cannot do. The best way to describe it is to say the situation was identical to all of the college QB's who've come into the NFL from places like Hawai'i and Texas Tech. Those offenses allowed limited QB's such as Timmy Chang and Graham Harrell to become college greats, but once they got to the NFL, they couldn't hide their weaknesses anymore.
Really, McCoy is just a more polished version of Frye. Their ceilings coming into the league were identical.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't think that we'll be drafting in the top 3 ...... but I do think we'll be taking a QB anyway.
Many of the teams who might draft ahead of us have a QB in place. (Rams, Bucs, Chefs, Carolina, Philly, etc.) Many other have traded for a guy to be "the guy". (Seattle, Oakland, Washington)
Buffalo, Washington, Miami, Chicago, and us are the teams I see right now as most likely to look at QB with their first pick. I can see us finishing with a worse record than Miami and Washington. Chicago could be OK, or not, depending on Mr INT. (Cutler)
I believe that there are a coupld of really good pro prospects coming out this year. We could see one just fall right into our laps.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't think that we'll be drafting in the top 3 ...... but I do think we'll be taking a QB anyway.
I hope we are not but as I said before we start with:
Tampa - Very Winnable
Kansas City - Very Winnable
After that we have:
BAL
CIN
ATL
PIT
NO
Bye
NE
NYJ
If we can't win against Tampa and KC then pretty much mark all of those games as L's. We might pick up a surprise win but all of those teams are play-off contenders, we are not.
On the flip side, we start off 2-0 then we can steal a few games here and there. I believe winning breeds winning and starting off 2-0 will help build confidence on this team. We go this route I see us as a 6-10/7-9 team.
So I see this season going two ways and the fork is the first two games of the season.
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I have us down for 7-9 to 8-8.
I think that we'll steal a game here or there that we shouldn't win.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm hoping for that but again if we can't beat KC and Tampa I think the chances of stealing a few games from teams that are better than us are pretty slim.
We have a very tough schedule. With this schedule a 7-9 season would be great because we would have beating a few playoff caliber teams to get to that record. But first and foremost we must beat the bad teams and we start the season with two bad teams. The only other bad team on the schedule IMO is Buffalo. The rest are decent to playoff teams.
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And Archie Griffin is a two time Heisman winner. How was his pro career? Troy Smith...Eric Crouch anyone?? Good College Career doesn't mean a good Pro Career.
Ahh, but you failed to look at what Toad said.. he said that he's not confident in McCoy NOT because of the Preseason games, but because of his College career.. That's what I was questioning.. What about his college career should come into question?
Yes, I'm more than well aware that many of the GREATEST college players don't have skills that transfer to the Pros.. Happens all the time.. by the same token, you have guys like Cribbs that nobody thought enough of to even draft that end up having a HUGE impact in the NFL.
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Yes, I'm more than well aware that many of the GREATEST college players don't have skills that transfer to the Pros.. Happens all the time.. by the same token, you have guys like Cribbs that nobody thought enough of to even draft that end up having a HUGE impact in the NFL.
You're right about that, I never even heard of Joe Flacco until he was drafted. Hell, I live in Ohio and I really didn't hear much about Big Ben until draft day. And guys like Willie Parker and Lehigh Bodden both were excellent players and were UDFA's.
But I've seen McCoy in NCAA and what I've seen of him in preseason I don't think he is that good. I hope he proves me wrong and we won't need to draft another QB and can use that pick on another area. Trust me I am wishing for McCoy to be the answer. I just won't bet a penny on him being it.
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But isn't McCoy the all time winningest QB in College history? I keep hearing that bantered about,, wondering if it's true
I keep hearing that he threw less passes over 10 yards than ANY QB in college last year. Anybody know if thats true? I believe Chris Spielman was harping on it one day on the radio.
If thats true, I know why he got passed on so many times before Holmgren, I mean we , took him.
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I have us down for 7-9 to 8-8.
I think that we'll steal a game here or there that we shouldn't win.
I think we can win 7 games this year any more would be a plus this year.
I highly doubt any of our opponents will go 16 and 0.
Who knows if all will have their starting QB when we play them.
A lot can happen from the start to finish of the season.
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Yes, I'm more than well aware that many of the GREATEST college players don't have skills that transfer to the Pros.. Happens all the time.. by the same token, you have guys like Cribbs that nobody thought enough of to even draft that end up having a HUGE impact in the NFL.
You're right about that, I never even heard of Joe Flacco until he was drafted. Hell, I live in Ohio and I really didn't hear much about Big Ben until draft day. And guys like Willie Parker and Lehigh Bodden both were excellent players and were UDFA's.
But I've seen McCoy in NCAA and what I've seen of him in preseason I don't think he is that good. I hope he proves me wrong and we won't need to draft another QB and can use that pick on another area. Trust me I am wishing for McCoy to be the answer. I just won't bet a penny on him being it.
Again, not for nothin, but pro scouts saw Cribbs in college and passed on him... My point is, what you see isn't always what you get.
The kid has a winning spirit. He's a winner.. He's a gamer and he is an athlete. He's got as good a chance as anyone..
But I'll admit, thus far,, all I see is THUD....LOL
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With that said, it's hard to see him getting cut.
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But isn't McCoy the all time winningest QB in College history? I keep hearing that bantered about,, wondering if it's true
I keep hearing that he threw less passes over 10 yards than ANY QB in college last year. Anybody know if thats true? I believe Chris Spielman was harping on it one day on the radio.
If thats true, I know why he got passed on so many times before Holmgren, I mean we , took him.
brownohlic...without breaking down every pass thrown, the best stat to determine how many passes McCoy completed over 10 yds would be to looking up the yards per attempt and yds per competition.
So I looked up some of the top QBs coming out of college...and one Pro QB...
Tebow......yds/comp-13.6...yds/att-9.2
Clauson....yds/comp-12.8...yds/att-8.8
Bradford....yds/comp-14.4...yds/att-8.1
LeFevour...yds/comp-10.8...yds/att-7.6
Pike..........yds/comp-11.9...yds/att-7.5
McCoy......yds/comp-10.6...yds/att-7.5
J.Brown.....yds/comp-11.4...yds/att-7.2
P. Manning..yds/comp-11.4...yds/att-7.9 (career avg-7.7)
Though "technically" Speilman might be correct but I'm not sure it matters when we compare stats with the other college QBs. McCoy threw more passes than any of the above and completed more than any of the above...470 att./332 comp. (3521 yds).
LeFevour was just behind McCoy with 455 att/318 comp (3438 yds) followed by Clauson with 425 att/289 comp. (3722yds).
The QBs do not draw up the pass patterns or develop the play book...they run the offense they are given. Just like in the pros, these college game plans are designed to move the chains, thus less passes deep down field.
Trying to draw any conclusion about McCoy based on his brief performances in preseason and practice is way premature, IMO.
I don't know what it is about Browns fans, "these days" ... but they just love to beat up/beat down on Browns QBs. If fans can't find something to beech about Delhomme or Wallace's game, they pick on the rookie. It just seems as if some Browns fans are not happy if they can't bad mouth a QB.
McCoy is very green and needs time to mature physically and mentally...he has 2 years to develop under Holmgren's tutelage, then fans can judge the final product...give the kid a break...try to be realistic when judging our rookie QB.
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brownohlic...without breaking down every pass thrown, the best stat to determine how many passes McCoy completed over 10 yds would be to looking up the yards per attempt and yds per competition.
I'm pretty sure that stat includes YAC. So if he threw it 4yds and the receiver runs 6yds after the catch it would say he threw it 10yds.
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The QBs do not draw up the pass patterns or develop the play book...they run the offense they are given. Just like in the pros, these college game plans are designed to move the chains, thus less passes deep down field.
No offense but I don't think anyone was arguing differently. But in College the talent pool is greatly watered down so you can get away with a lot more. When is the last time a dink and dunk passer won the Superbowl?? Probably the closest you could come to that is Kurt Warner. But Kurt has precision type accuracy and he could throw the long ball if nessesary.
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Trying to draw any conclusion about McCoy based on his brief performances in preseason and practice is way premature, IMO.
Again, I've seen him play in College and I didn't think he was NFL caliber type QB then.
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I don't know what it is about Browns fans, "these days" ... but they just love to beat up/beat down on Browns QBs. If fans can't find something to beech about Delhomme or Wallace's game, they pick on the rookie. It just seems as if some Browns fans are not happy if they can't bad mouth a QB.
When a play performs bad they get picked on. Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, they all got picked on because they all played poor. Our team is very thin so I'll give him a pass but it wasn't like he was facing other teams #1 Defenses either. He hasn't looked good in games nor has he torched it up in practice.
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McCoy is very green and needs time to mature physically and mentally...he has 2 years to develop under Holmgren's tutelage, then fans can judge the final product...give the kid a break...try to be realistic when judging our rookie QB.
And now were down to the jist of it. Project QB's comming out of college don't usually pan out to well. He was a starter for a two seasons at Texas. Took them to a National Title game, yet he needs to sit on the bench a few years.
Well Joe Flacco came from Deleware, no where near the stature of Texas. Started right away.
Mark Sanchez started one year at USC and he started right away.
Matt Ryan drafted out of Boston College, started right away.
Matt Stafford drafted out of Georgia, started 10 games his first year.
Ben Roethlisberger drated out of Miami of OH, started 14 games his first year.
Now there are others to start that didn't do well like David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch but do you honestly think that a few years on the bench would of greatly improved thier skill set?
So Colt McCoy was a starting QB in HS, goes to Texas sits a year behind Vince Young, Starts two years after that now is soo green he needs two more years under Mike Holmgren* before he can evolve into an elite QB??
Sorry if I'm not counting on that. If he turns into the next Steve Young, Tom Brady, Joe Montana I will gladly eat my crow. Hell I'll eat everyone else's as well. I wish the kid well and I hope he leads this team to the promise land. I'm just not in a hurry to bet my house on it.
*just wanted to put this in here. I keep hearing that MH is tutoring Colt. Is this actually happening?? The last I heard was Mike wasn't doing anything but if any of the QB's want to come and pick his brain his door is always open. Just curious as to what involvement Mike has actually had with Colt thus far.
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Now there are others to start that didn't do well like David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch but do you honestly think that a few years on the bench would of greatly improved thier skill set?
Depends. Would they still be starting for atrocious teams?
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And now were down to the jist of it. Project QB's comming out of college don't usually pan out to well. He was a starter for a two seasons at Texas. Took them to a National Title game, yet he needs to sit on the bench a few years.
Well Joe Flacco came from Deleware, no where near the stature of Texas. Started right away.
Mark Sanchez started one year at USC and he started right away.
Matt Ryan drafted out of Boston College, started right away.
Matt Stafford drafted out of Georgia, started 10 games his first year.
Ben Roethlisberger drated out of Miami of OH, started 14 games his first year.
free...none of the QBs listed above could beat out Jake Delhomme the way his is playing this preseason.
In Cleveland, we have two QBs that can play the position better than any of the rookie QBs above. I don't believe anyone expected the Browns to upgrade our weakest position on the team, as well as we have with Delhomme and Wallace.
On this Cleveland Browns team, McCoy is playing the role of #3 QB, getting fewer snaps than any time in QB career. He is not being force fed or hurried into a starting role, thus he is being forced to take a go slow approach.
When Holmgren brought in Wallace, then added Delhomme, then drafted McCoy, the "best" the Browns could hope for would be that Delhomme was not washed up and would rebound and Wallace would be pushing for the starting job, proving to be a very capable backup, "at the very least"...and McCoy would be able to learn the pro game at a much slower pace than most imagined.
I'll be darned if it doesn't look like it's working out exactly like "someone" planned. I love it when a plan comes together like this one.
Those of you attempting to disparage McCoy's ability and potential because he can't beat out the veterans ahead of him need to realize, this is a good thing for McCoy and the Browns.
All of us realize how quickly the QB situation can change and I have little doubt that Holmgren is preparing McCoy for the possibility that he could be needed if Delhomme and Wallace would go down due to injury.
McCoy's job is to prepare himself to play should the opportunity present itself. Learn the position as a backup...not the starter. If Delhomme and Wallace stay healthy, McCoy will have to "earn" the starting position, which is not likely to happen this year.
...just like "someone" planned.
As for the idea that McCoy is not going to make the team...someone is smoking too much wacky weed.
The media has to make something up to feed to the hungry wolves who are looking to feed on McCoy's bones. Someone writes "McCoy might not make the team"...and look what happens...
...the wolves come out in force.
...just like the media planned.
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I don't believe anyone is saying that McCoy should be beating out Delhomme or Wallace, but we do all wonder if he can beat out Ratliffe. That is where the bubble comes from.. Is McCoy good enough to make the team...
We all took for granted that he was good enough to do that... but by what he has shown us in preseason, I am not so sure he has performed well enough to win a spot. I do love the fact that we have the depth at QB that it is possible that a third round draft pick may not make the team...
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Neither Ratliff or McCoy needs to see the field this year.  However we know Ratliff isn't going to suddenly become a competent QB, McCoy there is still questions, so if that's the choice, I roll the dice on McCoy. What I've seen so far in preseason though, I just can't get past that feeling that he's Quinn II...
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Is this still a thread ? Somebody please call me when Holmgren says McCoy is "bubbling." No offense to anyone posting,.... 
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When someone calls you to let you know, do me a favor and then call me.
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Early reville today,.... 
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I don't believe anyone is saying that McCoy should be beating out Delhomme or Wallace, but we do all wonder if he can beat out Ratliffe. That is where the bubble comes from.. Is McCoy good enough to make the team...
We all took for granted that he was good enough to do that... but by what he has shown us in preseason, I am not so sure he has performed well enough to win a spot. I do love the fact that we have the depth at QB that it is possible that a third round draft pick may not make the team...
half.back....your response is a perfect example of what I'm talking about...someone in the media writes something "stupid" like McCoy is on the bubble...and folks like you just run like hell with it.
WHO SAID McCOY IS ON THE BUBBLE?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I have little doubt that Holmgren is preparing McCoy for the possibility that he could be needed if Delhomme and Wallace would go down due to injury.
Like I said before is Holmgren doing that? Last I heard he wasn't involved with coaching but if the QB's wanted to pick his brain his door would be open.
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McCoy's job is to prepare himself to play should the opportunity present itself. Learn the position as a backup...not the starter. If Delhomme and Wallace stay healthy, McCoy will have to "earn" the starting position, which is not likely to happen this year.
...just like "someone" planned.
That's fine. You believe what you want. I'll believe what I want. I'll be the first to tell anyone that I'm not an NFL scout. But with my own two eyes I've seen enough of Colt in his College career to make an opinion that he just doesn't have the skill set. And if we did not have Delhomme or Wallace I don't think McCoy would be able to beat out Ratliffe.
He is not ready to start in the NFL this year, period. Yes its a good thing he has to sit because he NEEDS to sit. He is a project QB. In the history of the NFL there have been a few projects to work out but the majority of them bust.
This is the last comment on the subject I will make:
I hope I am wrong, won't be the first or last time. Because I'd rather if we are picking top ten again next year to get a big stud D-Lineman, Linebacker or at worst the best WR on the board instead of a QB.
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Hey, we can't really argue about the first, or even second, QB so McCoy and Ratliff are it.
I though McCoy showed some improvement this last game and is just about where I would expect a third-round third-string third-game rookie QB to be.
He has one proven, talented winner to learn from and another experienced QB as well. He also has time.
One more OL, WR, DL, and 2 LB and we may very well have a team that could win with somebody just a little bit better than Charlie Frye. McCoy may be that guy, or we just draft another one.
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FreeAgent: Mark it down, if we are drafting top 3 next year we will be drafting a QB.
Ytown: I don't think that we'll be drafting in the top 3 ...... but I do think we'll be taking a QB anyway.
No way Mike Holmgren Drafts a QB in the first rd, let alone a Top 10 pick..not happening...the rest was smokes screens before the draft...
Holmgren does not have a history of drafting QB high..he is not going to do that..holmgren will draft Qb in the later rds and develop them.
Face it...if we are drafting in the Top 10 next year..Cartman is out of here...and either Holmgren will take over as coach OR Jon Gruden will be our new Head coach (I like Gruden as much as Holmgren..the guy can coach)
Gruden and Holmgren both run WCO systems where you don't "need" to draft a QB high to get results....WCO QB are a dime a dozen...Holmgren proved it with:
Farve - 2nd rd pick 91 Falcons
Hasselbeck = Rd 6 1998 NFL draft, Green Bay, pick 184
Joe Montana = Rd 3, pick 82, 1979 NFL draft
Steve Young = Supplemental Draft
sure these guys are good and some great, however it was the WCO system employed by Walsh/Holmgren that was a big part of making these guys as good as they were.
Look what Jon Gruden's system did for Rich Gannon(4th rd pick 1997 NFL draft) in Oakland
there are 5 recent examples of Holmgren or 1 of Holmgren's understudies turning a late rd Qb into a very good QB with the Walsh WCO system....it is very unlikely Holmgren spends a high 1st rd pick on a QB..I just don't see it happening...its not his way..instead he stockpiles later rd QB and develops one..its Holmgren's way of doing it...always has been.
If Holmgren don't want to coach after this year then Hopefully he brings in Gruden....Gruden is a great coach, and the guy runs the same WCO system Holmgren has ran in his tenure in the NFL...I could live with Gruden.
I don't however see us drafting a QB high next year..Holmgren has just never done that, its not his way of doing things....I do see him taking another Qb in the 2nd or 3rd rounds however....just like he always does...1st rd picks will be more focused on skill positions (WR, TE, DB, DL, RB or OL) Remember Holmgren took Shaun Alexander in the 1st rd with seattle in 2000....so him drafting RB that high is not out of the question.....
however for as long as Holmgren has been in the NFL(from 1986 until 2010) Holmgren has never drafted a 1st rd QB..so its pretty much just not going to happen....barring a diaster...I just don't see it...the only way he takes one is if there is no one else there and were stuck with him...
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I think that the notion that there is "no way" someone does something because of what they've done in the past is silly.
IF we were drafting in that spot, and IF there is a QB available that they'd feel is worth the pick more then another player at a different position, then I see absolutely zero reason why they wouldn't draft that QB that high.
You are right that Holmgren has never drafted a 1st round QB.... but he also hasn't needed to. He's had a Montana, a Young, a Hasselbeck and a Favre - all in the prime of their careers.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think that the notion that there is "no way" someone does something because of what they've done in the past is silly.
IF we were drafting in that spot, and IF there is a QB available that they'd feel is worth the pick more then another player at a different position, then I see absolutely zero reason why they wouldn't draft that QB that high.
You are right that Holmgren has never drafted a 1st round QB.... but he also hasn't needed to. He's had a Montana, a Young, a Hasselbeck and a Favre - all in the prime of their careers.
You wrote pretty much what I was going to say and I'll just add two question:
Has Holmgren ever been in a position to draft a #1 QB in the First Round? If so who has he passed on?
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Hey, we can't really argue about the first, or even second, QB so McCoy and Ratliff are it.
I though McCoy showed some improvement this last game and is just about where I would expect a third-round third-string third-game rookie QB to be.
He has one proven, talented winner to learn from and another experienced QB as well. He also has time.
One more OL, WR, DL, and 2 LB and we may very well have a team that could win with somebody just a little bit better than Charlie Frye. McCoy may be that guy, or we just draft another one.
 I think that's the point,....are we "really" bubbling ? Ratliff didn't even get in Saturday,...(why ?),....Are the Browns keeping four QB's (what for ?) Or is Ratliff a goner (for sure ?) Only Mikey knows, so my opinion on this is worthless. 
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j/c
Just heard on the ESPN radio sportcenter that both Delhomme & Wallace will be rested for the Bears game Thursday night. Therefore . . .
However, I can't find an article / link to post.
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I hope our first string O-Line gets at least a quarter to a half of play. They need more time as a unit IMO and it will be good for both Ratliff and Colt to play behind a better line.
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I agree with most (at least I hope it's most) of the people on here when I say that I'm reserving judgment on Colt until next year's training camp. The guy is a rook, which is hard enough on a QB all by itself.
Plus, the guy is a 3rd rounder (not really expected to light the field on fire in his first preseason). I mean, if we drafted him #1 overall (hey wait, there's a QB that was drafted #1 and has looked pretty bad...) I could see why media people would be writing articles about how someone might be cut.
Plus, the guy has been playing with a terrible line. I know, I know, that's a weak excuse. But COME ON! That Bender guy is AWFUL. Kooistra is AWFUL. I don't know where these guys are from, or their status (Vet, rookie/prospect) and if they are being groomed and a large jump in performance is expected, but all I can see is that they are getting slapped around pretty good out there.
The system that Colt played in at Texas is also working against him right now. The guy is playing in a totally different system, and at a much faster/better level. I understand why he's looking a little lost right now.
The thing that I like is that his main selling point is his accuracy. Supposedly he's an accurate QB. He's got plenty of other stuff to work on, but that's something you can build off of. I'm really hoping he goes away for a while, and next preseason we see the new and improved "NFL" Colt McCoy.
Just sayin'...
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe anyone is saying that McCoy should be beating out Delhomme or Wallace, but we do all wonder if he can beat out Ratliffe. That is where the bubble comes from.. Is McCoy good enough to make the team...
We all took for granted that he was good enough to do that... but by what he has shown us in preseason, I am not so sure he has performed well enough to win a spot. I do love the fact that we have the depth at QB that it is possible that a third round draft pick may not make the team...
half.back....your response is a perfect example of what I'm talking about...someone in the media writes something "stupid" like McCoy is on the bubble...and folks like you just run like hell with it.
WHO SAID McCOY IS ON THE BUBBLE?
yahoo sports said the PD said he was on the bubble....but not knowing what yahoo used, it is hard to say if the PD said that or not.
It may have been a question.....Is McCoy on the bubble? Or Could McCoy be on the bubble.
At any rate, I seriously doubt the guy gets cut. It's rare when a top 3 round player gets cut his first year. It rare for them to get cut in year two for that matter.
I don't think McCoy is more than a back-up, but I don't think he needs to worry about getting cut unless he is a flat out egg head or just goofing off in practice.
The odds of keeping 4 rostered QB's is better than McCoy getting cut this year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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j/c
Just heard on the ESPN radio sportcenter that both Delhomme & Wallace will be rested for the Bears game Thursday night. Therefore . . .
However, I can't find an article / link to post.
Now if that's true, then who starts Thursday,...hmmn, that'll say a lot,...and then it might not,...it might say we're keeping all four.
I'd rather keep a quality ST'er or OLineman (or whatever.)
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I agree with most (at least I hope it's most) of the people on here when I say that I'm reserving judgment on Colt until next year's training camp. The guy is a rook, which is hard enough on a QB all by itself.
Plus, the guy is a 3rd rounder (not really expected to light the field on fire in his first preseason). I mean, if we drafted him #1 overall (hey wait, there's a QB that was drafted #1 and has looked pretty bad...) I could see why media people would be writing articles about how someone might be cut.
Plus, the guy has been playing with a terrible line. I know, I know, that's a weak excuse. But COME ON! That Bender guy is AWFUL. Kooistra is AWFUL. I don't know where these guys are from, or their status (Vet, rookie/prospect) and if they are being groomed and a large jump in performance is expected, but all I can see is that they are getting slapped around pretty good out there.
The system that Colt played in at Texas is also working against him right now. The guy is playing in a totally different system, and at a much faster/better level. I understand why he's looking a little lost right now.
The thing that I like is that his main selling point is his accuracy. Supposedly he's an accurate QB. He's got plenty of other stuff to work on, but that's something you can build off of. I'm really hoping he goes away for a while, and next preseason we see the new and improved "NFL" Colt McCoy.
Just sayin'...
This is what some posters do not get [FA]. Some QB's are going to make a faster transition to the League, simply because their adjustment is not so big, because they played in a pro set offense in College.
Like Ryan and Flacco.
Players like McCoy and Tebow did not come from a pro set, so it is only natural that there will be a bigger adjustment period
I don't know what's wrong with this younger generation, that they expect so much from rookies. Back in the day very few rookies ever saw the playing field let a lone start their rookie years.
I used to work for Ed Lothamer DT KC Chiefs 64-72 he was a career backup to Buck Buchanan. Back then there was not substitutions like we have today, so if you were a rookie back then you would be lucky to ever see the field by your 3rd season. The point is that too much is expected of young prospects today and I don't feel it is realistic to expect so much so soon.
As mac said it's far to premature to judge Colt McCoy.
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