DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum McCoy on the bubble?

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This is what some posters do not get [FA].

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I know I said I was done with Colt but if you're going to take a shot at me I'll respond.

I get what he wrote very well. I actually said the same thing. But what part don't you get that these type of QB's have not panned out well. There is a history of "project QB's" on the scrap heap of the NFL.

I'm sorry if I don't buy and hope that a guy is going to completely change at the NFL level. I think that is a huge transition and trying to learn it at this level on a practice squad/scout team is asking a lot.

I don't know what is wrong with you older generation guys that bring up past generation of players into an argument that they don't belong in.

I never said Colt should be starting, I was pointing out the other QB's are starting despite most of them played at a much lower level of competition and prestige than did Colt. Yes they played in a Pro Offense and that was my entire point that seems to have jumped over your head.

Now since he played in a gimmick offense at Texas he needs to learn a Pro Offense while sitting on the bench. And people like you think all Holmgren has to do is speak in his ear and he will be the next Tom Brady.

Now is it impossible? No, he might be the next {insert mid-late round pick turned superstar}. But forgive me if I don't bet my house on it in Vegas.

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FA,.....I don't no what History you are referring to.
For every QB who has failed to make it at the next level there is another player who has made it.
Most of the College QB's haven't come from a team that runs a pro set offense in the history of the League.
Yes there are many today that do, but there were far less QB's in the history of the league who did not have the benefit of playing in a pro set at College.

The point I was trying to make and why I
mentioned Ed Lothamer is because there are starters and there are jobs for backups even then.
To say from what little you have seen from Colt, that he is not NFL caliber is very premature.
There is no way someone should be speculating that he is the next BQ either.
That's just BS imo.
To say that you have already came to the conclusion that he is not NFL caliber says it all.

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FL,
For every Mid-Late round pick QB that has won a Superbowl there are dozens that never took a snap. And the majority of ones that did make it came from a Pro Offense.

I've seen this over and over and over and over where people get up in arms that someone doesn't like a guy. They cry foul and claim we don't know anything, give the guy a chance. blah blah blah.

I have my opinion and I'm entitled to it. We are both on the same line of argument form different ends. You want to sit and wait, I want to wait and see. I've already said that I'm no NFL scout and I would gladly eat some crow.

But for you to act like it's a simple transition and all you need to do is sit a year or two learning a pro offense in practice and not on the field says all I need to know. Right back at you!

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For every QB who has failed to make it at the next level there is another player who has made it.

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For every QB who has failed to make it at the next level there is another player who has made it.

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I would say it is more like one out of every seven or eight that makes a name for himself in the NFL even as a journeyman back-up.

I bet 7 or 8 QBs are taken each year and I bet you end up with 1 starter, 1 long term back-up and 6 guys that are out of the league within 2 years..

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So, in a 2 year span 24 QBs were drafted and only 3 (4 at best) can be considered definitive starters for their teams going forward.

with another 5 being solid backup options.

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So I said of 7 draft picks 2 would end up as starters or solid back ups.. that's 28%.

After your research you concluded that in those two years combined, you have 8 of 24 as starters or solid back-ups.. which is 33%...

So my percentages really aren't THAT pessimistic..

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So, in a 2 year span 24 QBs were drafted and only 3 (4 at best) can be considered definitive starters for their teams going forward.

with another 5 being solid backup options.

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So I said of 7 draft picks 2 would end up as starters or solid back ups.. that's 28%.

After your research you concluded that in those two years combined, you have 8 of 24 as starters or solid back-ups.. which is 33%...

So my percentages really aren't THAT pessimistic..

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You misread. That would be 9/24, which is 37.5%

and, you said 7or8, if i take the more pessimistic number, that means 2/8 = 25% which equates to 6/24. So, 3 less QBs making it every 2 drafts

actually the main thing I thought you were too pessimistic on was the out of the NFL after 2 years, but it's more fun to argue these minute details and keep this thread going anyway

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You are right that Holmgren has never drafted a 1st round QB.... but he also hasn't needed to. He's had a Montana, a Young, a Hasselbeck and a Favre - all in the prime of their careers.

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You misread. That would be 9/24, which is 37.5%

and, you said 7or8, if i take the more pessimistic number, that means 2/8 = 25% which equates to 6/24. So, 3 less QBs making it every 2 drafts

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So if you cherry pick my worst numbers and your best numbers then it looks worse? sheesh..

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actually the main thing I thought you were too pessimistic on was the out of the NFL after 2 years,

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Clearly I was exaggerating.. I didn't mean that some of them weren't still on a roster.. just that they were buried on a depth chart, on a practice squad or somewhere never to be heard from again... and I'm pretty sure that that applies to at least 78.4% of all QBs not taken in the first or second round by teams that were under .500 the year before.

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He was damn near ready to give up this year's entire draft to do so.

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He was damn near ready to give up this year's entire draft to do so.

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I didn't get that impression at all.. I remember him saying that he thought Bradford was the real deal and was going good... But I doubt that Holmgren would EVER pull a Ditka..

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as for Colt, I just wish he would make a petition to the league for #45.

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You can't give him Ernie Davis' retired number!!!!!!

I don't care how cool it would sound

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as for Colt, I just wish he would make a petition to the league for #45.

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You can't give him Ernie Davis' retired number!!!!!!

I don't care how cool it would sound

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and I'm pretty sure that that applies to at least 78.4% of all QBs not taken in the first or second round by teams that were under .500 the year before.

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it's actually 78.375%. let's not get hasty with the estimations here

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If Jake plays all season like he has in pre-season, then McCoy isn't touching this team until Jake retires.

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Most of his passes were dump offs underneath but if they are going to basically give you a short toss and run for 12-13 yards per play.. why would we be hoping he zings some into coverage down the field? Just so we can see it?

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in preseason game4 that basically means nothing and we aren't going to see him until preseason next year (hopefully )....

yes, just so we can see it. i think Daboll should have drawn something up that forced him to make a tough pass a bit deeper just to see how he reads downfield progressions and his mechanics. Preseason is for testing/teaching afterall.

that said, I suspect he was playing within the gameplan and I am not going to complain too much about a QB going 13/13. Better he does that than go for the underneath stuff and end up 5/13 or worse as we have had here before.

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Most of his passes were dump offs underneath but if they are going to basically give you a short toss and run for 12-13 yards per play.. why would we be hoping he zings some into coverage down the field? Just so we can see it?

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I don't see why that's even a problem.. someone on the gameday thread was calling him the second coming of Captain Checkdown..

Again, to me it's, whatever works.. that's what they gave him, that's what he took and the kid was accurate.. nothing behind or to far in front of or over the head of his receivers.. he was pretty much on target.

Think about how well Joe Montana made that look.... think about who his QB coach was.... Then think about who the president of the Browns is...

Coincidence? I don't think so

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I am not going to complain too much about a QB going 13/13

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That's ok.. somebody will.

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Yeah, I think we can put the rumors of McCoy being on the bubble to rest..

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I just find it hilarious that people think there is even enough to grade beyond identifying a few things the kid needs to work on...

In his first preseason, after going, 20/37 (54%) for 172 yards (4.6 ypa) with 1 td, and 2 ints.. was Aaron Rodgers on the bubble? No, he was a first round pick.. McCoy was a third round pick and he outplayed him through their first preseason with a much better completion percentage and a better ypa.. so you know what that tells me? Nothing, which is what we can get from one preseason.

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