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Kinda interesting. I just don't know if I could see Mangini letting go of both of them. I would not be opposed to cutting both and keeping some of the younger guys. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_browns_linebacker_da_1.htmlThe cruel cut: Veteran LB Bowens uncertain of fate as final Browns cuts loom on Saturday Published: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 6:55 PM Updated: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 7:01 PM BEREA, Ohio -- David Bowens, the inspirational leader of the Browns' defense last season, thinks he could get cut Saturday in the final trim to 53. "I'm uncertain," the Browns' linebacker said. "Sometimes you get a sense of what's going on by what you're doing. I mean, in eight years I don't think I've played in the fourth quarter." Bowens, a 12-year veteran, was referring to being on the field in Detroit all the way into the fourth quarter, when most of the backups were playing. He admitted it was tough to take. "Yes, considering what I've done and what I've tried to do for this team and my teammates," he said. "It was surprising. But I went out there and did it. I'm never going to cry about anything. I played the best I could." Bowens, 33, said it was particularly disconcerting because he missed the first two preseason games and has been limited in practice with a sore left knee, one that bothered him all last season. "In the condition I've been in, and with the limited amount of reps I've been getting in practice, I just didn't expect [to be playing in the fourth quarter]," he said. Bowens said he's been missing time all preseason because of swelling in the knee. "I can't get the doggone thing to go down," he said. "Every day. It's the same problem I had last year. But last year we monitored it. The practice week wasn't so heavy and then I was able to perform on Sundays pretty well." Bowens, who signed as an unrestricted free agent after playing for Eric Mangini for two seasons in New York, isn't the only former Jet believed to be on the bubble. Fellow linebacker and 12-year vet Eric Barton, who spent five seasons in New York, might also be in jeopardy. "All I can do is play," said Barton. "It's up to them. It's not something I worry about." When Barton went down midway through the season with a neck injury that required surgery, Bowens moved inside and made the defensive calls. He was also voted a team captain to replace the injured D'Qwell Jackson. Bowens, a leader in the locker room, took his new responsibility seriously and played some of the best ball of his career. Over the final eight games, he made 38 tackles, five sacks (second on the team), one forced fumble and one interception. On Dec. 10 against Pittsburgh, he played in the 150th game of his career, and celebrated by knocking down a fourth-down Ben Roethlisberger pass on the Steelers' final play to preserve a 13-6 victory. He also had five tackles and a sack. Bowens was a key to the defensive resurgence that helped the Browns win their final four games. "Last year was last year," said Bowens. "Eric knows me and my ability, but the new regime doesn't. That's why I'm uncertain." Bowens watched the Browns acquire linebackers Scott Fujita and Chris Gocong in the off-season and insert them into the starting lineup, with Gocong inside and Fujita outside. Matt Roth has been the other starter outside, with Barton the other top man inside. Jackson, who started camp as one of the top four, is currently recovering from a partially-torn pectoral muscle. "I really think they're trying to look at other people, which is fine with me," Bowens said. Bowens spent two weeks of camp helping to coach the linebackers while position coach Matt Eberflus was recovering from an appendectomy, but he's not ready for the clipboard yet. "No, because I know I can still play," he said. "At this time last year, I had to sit out the whole preseason. I was really worried about my quad strength. This year wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I felt fine [in Detroit], was able to move around a little bit. It was a little shaky because everyone else had three games, including the Brown and White game. As the game went on, I got more comfortable." He said if he's here after Saturday, "I'll continue to be the same person. If not, I'll have to look at other options. I feel like I still have a lot of football left in me."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think it's 50/50 with both of them. I don't think it would hurt us to let them go because they're basically garbage. But, something tells me at least one of them will be here.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Is it Mangini or Heckert that makes the call on the final roster? I thought it was Heckert.
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Bowens stays, Barton goes.
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It's Heckert.
I have no doubt at all that Mangini gets full input, but it is Heckert's call.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Bowens stays, Barton goes.
I hope you're right. Both of them have been getting owned this preseason. Unfotunately, Barton is ahead on the depth chart (this year and even last year for some strange reason) and Bowens was getting owned by 2nd and 3rd stringers. I was hoping that Bowens was shaking the rust off of his sore knee, but in the article he said he was fine. I want him to stick because I believe he made our LBs look better than they actually were during our late season tear last year, but it's not looking good for him.
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Eric Barton shouldn't have been signed last year. Missing gaps, can't shed and just is slower than molasses in December.
The Browns organization since 99 at the LB position have always used
stop gaps and no long answers other than Wimbley,whos atheletism is being missed off the defense.
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j/c
There is a reason we went out and signed Gocong and Fujita...we were/are old and injured at LB.
Barton, Bowens, DQ...all on the bubble IMO.
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This is good news, in that we're trying to get younger & better at the position... the next major upgrades should be at RT, DL, LB and safety.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I've been hoping we cut Barton since we signed him, but I'd be a little sad to see Bowens go after how well he played in our run last year. In my book if it were my call, that would have earned him a roster spot this year at least as depth.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Sounds like he's been hurt and hasn't been able to play full speed.
I'd be in favor of putting him on IR to at least keep him around the team as he seems like he is a great leader and a great example for the younger players.
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Quote:
j/c
There is a reason we went out and signed Gocong and Fujita...we were/are old and injured at LB.
Barton, Bowens, DQ...all on the bubble IMO.
There's also a reason why we're getting gashed up the middle and we have one sack in the preseason. That also isn't the reason you trade Kam. Our LBs look slower and weaker now than they did last year. I haven't seen any 'upgrades' thus far. IMO - last year Bowens was one of our best LBers. Guys like Veikune, Adams, and Barton should be on the bubble.
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Bowens has too much value to be let go.
As they said, last year he made the calls and was voted captain...As for why he was playing into the 4th quarter of the Detroit game was most likely a way to get him into the flow...as he said he hasnt had a lot of reps and began to feel more comfortable...it was undoubtedly a way to get him back into the flow...
As for Barton...he's like Dra Davis...I'd accept him as a backup...but id much rather have youth back there...guys like Trusnik, Veikune, Maiava...theres no reason to have a 12 year veteran with limited ability around when you already have a 33 year old who has more on the ball...
Keep Bowens...dump Barton.
I dont see Bowens leaving...especially if he helped coach the LBs in camp...that wouldnt make any sense...you dont do that with a guy you dont want on the team
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I agree with your logic here...and it is yet another reason why I have been so "down" on DQ.
I think we keep Bowens around until he gets healthy...he was a great leader last year.
DQ is dinged up again and we did not miss him...and he is not the best fit...although possibly our most athletic LB.
Two LB spots for guys presently injured? One veteran guy not even able to practice right now and one old guy working his way back.
I dunno...if it comes down to either Bowens/DQ or Davis...I'm keeping Davis.
(Barton is long gone...that...or we have a problem evaluating talent.)
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Getting Dont'a Hightower next spring will fix our middle.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I soooooo concur with this.
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Quote:
It's Heckert.
I have no doubt at all that Mangini gets full input, but it is Heckert's call.
I agree.
Eric has his say, and it is a big say. Enough he might get his way, but by and large Heck has the most say on the shape of the roster.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I only saw one game but I'm less than impressed with the LB play.
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Getting Dont'a Hightower next spring will fix our middle.
If our middle consisted of Rey Malaluga and Ralondo McClain, we wouldn't have to wait till next year...
Nothing against Haden.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Getting Dont'a Hightower next spring will fix our middle.
If our middle consisted of Rey Malaluga and Ralondo McClain, we wouldn't have to wait till next year...
Nothing against Haden.
Yes, if we had an average two down player and a guy who has never played a down of football, the entire LB'er core would be fixed. 
I'm so sick of hearing about that average piece of trash Rey Malaluga
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Getting Dont'a Hightower next spring will fix our middle.
If our middle consisted of Rey Malaluga and Ralondo McClain, we wouldn't have to wait till next year...
Nothing against Haden.
Yes, if we had an average two down player and a guy who has never played a down of football, the entire LB'er core would be fixed.
I'm so sick of hearing about that average piece of trash Rey Malaluga
Way to take things out of context.
1. Your opinion of Rey is different then mine, lets say he's only average, but I feel his presense, size, and ability to get to people with the ball, something our LBers always have a problem doing.. would be nice...
2. I didn't say the Whole LB core would be fixed... did I?
3. Just because you don't like a player doesn't mean he isn't good. I don't like Tom Brady, but yet, my dislike for him for some reason hasn't stopped him from being good...
Everyones allowed to have an opinion and all, but you don't need to be so mean about it...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Bowens stays, Barton goes.
+1
I don't think Bowens will be cut, I can't say the same for Barton.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Gets to the ball...you mean makes tackles, right? So you're excited by a linebacker who ranked 141st in total tackles last season, and 234th in solo tackles? Tied for 241st with 1.0 sacks?
Sorry, can't get excited about Rey.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Getting Dont'a Hightower next spring will fix our middle.
If our middle consisted of Rey Malaluga and Ralondo McClain, we wouldn't have to wait till next year...
Nothing against Haden.
Yes, if we had an average two down player and a guy who has never played a down of football, the entire LB'er core would be fixed.
I'm so sick of hearing about that average piece of trash Rey Malaluga
Way to take things out of context.
1. Your opinion of Rey is different then mine, lets say he's only average, but I feel his presense, size, and ability to get to people with the ball, something our LBers always have a problem doing.. would be nice...
2. I didn't say the Whole LB core would be fixed... did I?
3. Just because you don't like a player doesn't mean he isn't good. I don't like Tom Brady, but yet, my dislike for him for some reason hasn't stopped him from being good...
Everyones allowed to have an opinion and all, but you don't need to be so mean about it...
All we have heard about for a year is how the Browns should have taken Rey Malaluga, so excuse me if I seem a little testy about it.
However, all you have provided me is that he is a bad guy who gets to the ball, which really isn't true unless they run up the middle. Rey Malaluga is not better than either Scott Fujita nor DQ Jackson. He's also a piece of trash human being that I would want nowhere near my team.
You like him, good for you, but he does not fit on this team nor does he make plays at the amount that you think he does.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Gets to the ball...you mean makes tackles, right? So you're excited by a linebacker who ranked 141st in total tackles last season, and 234th in solo tackles? Tied for 241st with 1.0 sacks?
Sorry, can't get excited about Rey.
Compared to what Veikune has done? Sure.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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+2
Barton before Bowens, hands down IMHO
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Quote:
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Gets to the ball...you mean makes tackles, right? So you're excited by a linebacker who ranked 141st in total tackles last season, and 234th in solo tackles? Tied for 241st with 1.0 sacks?
Sorry, can't get excited about Rey.
Compared to what Veikune has done? Sure.
Got nothing to do with Veikune.
If we'd drafted Rey, he'd have taken the place of one of our starting LBers. All four Week 1 starting LBers (Jackson, Wimbley, Barton, Bowens) outplayed Rey. After Barton and Jackson went on IR they were replaced by Maiava, Trusnick, and Roth, all of whom also outplayed Rey. After one season, Rey has so far not proven that he would be an improvement over any LBer we put on the field last season, and was definitely the most underwhelming of the four USC backers drafted last year, despite being far and away the most hyped. Maybe he'll explode this season. I'm not holding my breath.
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Not to mention that he was also arrested for drunk driving, and hit a parking meter and 2 parked cars.
That could qualify him for a trip to the substance abuse suspension list if it happens again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Barton is my pick to go---after that neck injury last year, I thought he would've been gone by now. I was very underwhelmed with his play last season anyways. The guy is showing some moxie by giving it another go--but I just don't think its in the cards for him this year.
Bowens on the other hand is a big backer that can really lay the wood when he comes up to make a hit. He also seemed to have a knack for being in the right spot at the right time, or getting pressure on the QB when he needed too. His performance in the win against Pittsburgh was impressive. I like him as a spot starter inside this year assuming he can keep his knee right from week to week.
As far as our linebacking corps go...I think that DQ is definitely the speed guy if he can get back on the field by week one. Him in the middle with a rotation of Gocung, Bowens, and even Fujita, Maiava, or Veikune would satisfy me. Out on the ends I think that Roth has a side locked up and I would be happy to see Benard, Trusnick, and Fujita rotating in opposite of him.
DQ's return is key to getting some speed back in our LB's.
Another thing that has really caught my attention is the amount of guys we have rotating in at the position. I think that we will look much better once the regular season gets here and we start running our "real" defenses and putting our best-suited guys in the best situations we can---instead of just mix-and-matching while trying to evaluate certain guys in certain situations.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Gets to the ball...you mean makes tackles, right? So you're excited by a linebacker who ranked 141st in total tackles last season, and 234th in solo tackles? Tied for 241st with 1.0 sacks?
Sorry, can't get excited about Rey.
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Compared to what Veikune has done? Sure.
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Got nothing to do with Veikune.
If we'd drafted Rey, he'd have taken the place of one of our starting LBers. All four Week 1 starting LBers (Jackson, Wimbley, Barton, Bowens) outplayed Rey. After Barton and Jackson went on IR they were replaced by Maiava, Trusnick, and Roth, all of whom also outplayed Rey. After one season, Rey has so far not proven that he would be an improvement over any LBer we put on the field last season, and was definitely the most underwhelming of the four USC backers drafted last year, despite being far and away the most hyped. Maybe he'll explode this season. I'm not holding my breath.
also.....I beleive Ray was off the board by the time we picked Viekune.
You would have to compare Ray with Robo or maybe MoMass but even with Mass I think Ray was gone already. We Needed a WR bad in my opinion. Britt and Nicks had just come off the board at the end of the 1st. Robo was pretty much consensus next best WR and suposedly ready to play at this level. Hard to complain about taking a good character kid like that over Ray.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Quote:
Bowens stays, Barton goes.
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Rey was taken off our board before the draft ever began. The Browns were super high on him before the interview and after he came to Cleveland the Browns had zero interest. Same with Crabtree.
Mangini wants a team of high character, physically and mentally tough football players. You know as much as i dislike Mangini, you cant really fault him for what he wants in a player.
Now as for Bowens and barton, Bowen's leadership could be an asset but do you keep either of these guys over a Titus Brown or Benard. Do you keep either over a Constanza or a Trusnik? Honestly I would have to keep Maiva and Veikune over them and I like Bowens but man he makes Rubin look fast.
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Quote:
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Getting Dont'a Hightower next spring will fix our middle.
If our middle consisted of Rey Malaluga and Ralondo McClain, we wouldn't have to wait till next year...
Nothing against Haden.
I love Haden and was high on McClain going into the draft. That said, if we really wanted a LB this past draft, Weatherspoon looks like he may have been the best. Dang is that kid fast and strong with amazing instincts. (Atlanta)
#gmstrong
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Mangini wants a team of high character, physically and mentally tough football players. You know as much as i dislike Mangini, you cant really fault him for what he wants in a player.
You can if he is passing up talented players for choir boys. I want high character guys too but there are a lot of great NFL football players who came out of college with a reputation as being a troublemaker or a malcontent and it just never materialized...
So I'm not saying character shouldn't be considered but it needs to be one of many factors and it shouldn't be a deal breaker unless you have some pretty solid evidence that the guy is a schmuck..
yebat' Putin
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Wait a minute here... if we get all choir boys,, wouldn't they make a better Music Video about our run to the Superbowl? (ala the superbowl shuffle of the Bears) 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Another thing that has really caught my attention is the amount of guys we have rotating in at the position. I think that we will look much better once the regular season gets here and we start running our "real" defenses and putting our best-suited guys in the best situations we can---instead of just mix-and-matching while trying to evaluate certain guys in certain situations.
Thats the only reason I still have my sanity being a former linebacker and watching this abortion of a linebacking corps play this preseason. I keep telling myself that its just them playing a vanilla scheme and trying different things out, they aren't really that terrible...
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I keep telling myself that its just them playing a vanilla scheme and trying different things out, they aren't really that terrible...
I keep trying to convince myself of that as well. I'm hoping that the "newness" of these guys is why they're not clicking very well together. I'm also wondering if because there really isn't one true leader on D right now and that a real pecking order has not been established that that is somewhat of a distraction.
I don't think we're going to start the season looking much different than we do now but I feel we'll start coming together a bit more as the season progressess. I just have too much faith in Rob Ryan to think that won't happen.
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Quote:
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Another thing that has really caught my attention is the amount of guys we have rotating in at the position. I think that we will look much better once the regular season gets here and we start running our "real" defenses and putting our best-suited guys in the best situations we can---instead of just mix-and-matching while trying to evaluate certain guys in certain situations.
Thats the only reason I still have my sanity being a former linebacker and watching this abortion of a linebacking corps play this preseason. I keep telling myself that its just them playing a vanilla scheme and trying different things out, they aren't really that terrible...
I hope that this is the case. :
If Mangini is anything like Belichick and I think he is, then pre-season is more for evaluating players to find what their strengths and weaknesses are.
I hope that our real LB'ing
Will be with players who are at their positions of strength. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,409 Likes: 461
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,409 Likes: 461 |
Remember also that we have a rookie Safety (and often a rookie CB) working with the #1s ..... along with a CB and 2 LB who are new to our system.
Our best DL is out with an injury.
There is going to be some adjustment in he first few pre-season games .... especially when we don't really gameplan.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 113
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 113 |
when your defense is ranked in the Top 7, you must have a front 7 making plays.
Too many guys measure a defensive players success based on tackles...which in fact it goes deeper than that.
If a guy is starting and his tackle count is low..8 times out of 10,that concludes the defense is getting off the field on 3rd down.
That was Rey's case and also he was moved to OLB...a new position for him.
He was removed on 3rd down for Brandon Johnson.
I bet Rey Maualuga had a better average than any Browns LB as far as how many yards downfield he made a tackle..
Profootballfocus has a stat on that.
Too many Browns LB'ers make tackles upfield and lack a mean streak when they play....
How many Browns LB'er on this roster does a OC have to give extra attention to when it comes time to gameplan?
None.
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