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This is obviously a position that I feel most people know as more of a gut feeling... but just thought I would put this up as some evidence of how bad our drafting has been ...
Players remaining on the current active roster from the following draft years:
2001: zero
2002: none
2003: 1 - the Pontbriand
2004: none
2005: not one
2006: 3 - Jackson, Harrison, Vickers
2007: 2 - Thomas, Wright
2008: 1 - Rubin
2009: 6 - Mack, Robiski, Veikune, Maiva, Massaquoi, Davis
While we cant expect to keep multiple players drafted almost a decade ago ... some players can last that long (heck I think we have 6 players on the roster of 53 that have 10 years or more ... so its not like it cant be done) .. it's rediculous to think that we have 7 players from before mangini's time 13 from before holmgrens time ...
heck, we had 8 players picked this past draft and we are already at 6 as part of our team ... that leaves us with 19 out of 53 as our "own" (I know we could get asante and geathers on the practice squad ... but we also might waive veikune or maiva as well as be looking to trade jackson in the near future ...?)
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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That happens when you change FO and coaches every 3 years or so.
Davis came in and swept away the Clark stuff.
Savage came in a threw away all of the Davis stuff.
Mangini came in and dumped most of the Savage stuff.
Now we have Mangini working with Heckert and Holmgren .... and hopefully we'll wind up with some continuity so we can build for 5-10 years instead of rebuilding 3 or 4 times in 10 years .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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don't forget the switch to the 3-4 when we had to change the type of players.
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The only thing I can take from these cuts is Heckert has no backbone when it comes down to disagreeing with Mangini. Why else would Veikune and Barton make the team??? 
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No one has "made the team" yet .....
They have survived the final cut .... but there are often several moves after that final cuts. I suspect that we will make a few more moves before we open the season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
This is obviously a position that I feel most people know as more of a gut feeling... but just thought I would put this up as some evidence of how bad our drafting has been ...
Players remaining on the current active roster from the following draft years:
2001: zero
2002: none
2003: 1 - the Pontbriand
2004: none
2005: not one
2006: 3 - Jackson, Harrison, Vickers
2007: 2 - Thomas, Wright
2008: 1 - Rubin
2009: 6 - Mack, Robiski, Veikune, Maiva, Massaquoi, Davis
PStu...It is true that the Browns drafting record has been very poor, no doubt...but their is another part of the equation that needs to be considered...changes at the head coaching position and front office.
Every time the Browns made a change at HC/front office, it's more likely the new regime is going to keep the players they draft and cut those they did not draft. Also, contracts enter into the equation as those 5-6-7 yr contracts enter their option period when a team has to make up their mind to resign, trade or cut.
Keep in mind, some of the players from 2001 to 2004 are still in the NFL, just not with the Browns.
From 2001 to 2004, we had Butch Davis and his front office running the show and as you show, all we have remaining is the special teams long snapper.
From 2005 to 2008, we had Crennel and his front office...they kept the players they drafted and cut or traded the player Butch Davis drafted.
In 2009, Mangini/Kokinis took over and did the same, keeping the players they drafted while cutting the players from the Browns previous HCs/front offices. Also, Mangini was very active at signing players he had prior experience with, many from the Jets.
This year, the Browns brought in Holmgren and he made changes in the front office and he too will voice his opinion on some of the players to be kept or cut.
Bottom line, continued change in the HC/front office results in change in the roster.
It would be an interesting study to see how many NFL teams resign their 1st and 2nd round draft picks after the original 5-6-7 yr contracts run out.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Has there been anyone that we actually DRAFTED, and gave a contract extension to?
Sad.
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Phil Dawson Ryan Pontbriand We didn't draft Cribbs, so he wouldn't count as a drafted extension I suppose All STers  Guess that's what happens when you have so many front office changes....
#gmstrong
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Contract Status: The Browns picked up a four year option on Tim Couch's contract early in 2002. The option included an $8.75 million signing bonus, which is pro-rated over the four-years of the contract. Couch's base salary for 2003 was $6.2 million.  http://hskentucky.scout.com/a.z?s=391&p=8&c=1&nid=602135
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Practice Squad
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Phil Dawson was signed as a free agent in 99, so he wouldn't be a drafted extension either.
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Thanks for the correction; didn't realize the Raiders picked him up in '98 as an UDFA.
#gmstrong
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It's just sad to think about all the YEARS of wasted (high) draft picks and then looking at what else was out there that year. Yes, I realize that those picks may not have done here what they did elsewhere but just makes you think...
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I agree that we cant expect to have every single player form years or regimes prior ... plus with the turnover of the league I cant even say Id expect to have anyone from more than 5 years or so ... the NFL is .. not for long afterall
But whether it was Phil savage, butch davis, carmen policy, or bill belicheck who drafted them ... some players you keep regardless of their "style" I would think. If we go through 3 more coaching changes in the next few years ... I would probably check into a mental hospital ... but I would expect that we still had Thomas, Haden, mack, (possibly) wright, (possibly) harrison, (too early to tell on) lauvao .. and so on through only a few more ...
yeah the bottom of the roster is filled out with ventrones constanzas sorensons and hank poteats ... but you cant afford to miss at the top and bring in guys noone else would want either if we draft tomlinson, seymour .. etc instead of some of the bonehead moves, those guys dont get cut with a new coach IMO. They stay and help make the rebuilding or turnover process that much easier
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Quote:
It's just sad to think about all the YEARS of wasted (high) draft picks and then looking at what else was out there that year. Yes, I realize that those picks may not have done here what they did elsewhere but just makes you think...
Indeed. This is still what makes me wonder if we are going to reget passing on C.j Spiller RB...the dude has all the makings of a franchise back...when you got a Rb like Peterson, Tomlinson, etc..your team has a realistic chance to win every sunday....Rb like that make an immediate impact.
i look at things more "long term" and in "overall rating" Spiller was the top rated player available at our spot "overall" at the 7th spot..im not talking about rating guys by position I am talking about best player available across the entire board.
Bradford. Suh, McCoy, Willaims, Berry, and Okung were really the only players rated higher then him across the board.
the Raiders passed on Spiller because they have McFadden whom they drafted high a year or two before...the Raiders are also loaded at RB
The Bills infact couldn't believe we passed on him...they did not expect him to be there or to get past us...thats why it took the Bills all but what 45 seconds to turn in their draft card?
The Bills really didn't expect us to pass on him considering we don't have a big time back on our roster.
Haden was the best Defensive player at that pick, but he was not the BPA best overall player on the board Spiller was...
i am a big guy for BPA even though I think Haden will pan out for us, i don't see Haden as an impact player..Spiller is....
We finally have one of the better OL in the league now, we as a team were in the perfect position to draft that franchise back and that back would have a better chance of success then failure. Spiller is a guy that breaks the game wide open...he is the dude you see scampering 86 yards for a TD against the Steelers breking the game wide open.
This is not to mention the kid is a 3 down back...he can block and has nice soft hands to catch.
i hate RB by commitee because it telegrapghs your plays.
If Hillis comes in on 3rd and short its a run guranteed....if Harrison comes in on 1st and 10 its run almost 9 out of 10 times...
with spiller we could pass or run on any of those downs. It gives the ability to mix and match our plays without changing RB personell all the time...it gives us the ability to mask our Offensive play calling. We would be able to run or pass out of the same formations making the opposing d unsure of what were really going to do every play.
Emmit Smith and Thurman Thomas both had this effect for the teams they played for...it made it much harder to defend them when you have aback like that.
i see Spiller more as a Thurman Thomas type of RB...even though Thomas was a 2nd rd pick everyone knows people make mistakes sometimes..Levy couldn't beleive Thomas was still on the board when their 2nd came up and he snatched him up....
I know there is more then one way to make a competitive team, however McCoy would have a much better chance of being successful with a franchise back behind him...
i personally would have thought it would have been better to get Spiller + McCoy this year, and then focu more on Defense in the draft next year..i think that is a faster way to playoffs and would get us in there a year or two earlier then what they are doing right now.
just my opinion, but i think passing on Spiller will have the same effect passing on tomlinson did for us a few years ago...why we let Frachise backs pass us by I will never understand.
there is a very real possibility that Spiller becomes a LT type of back...lord knows he has the skill set, tools, and game breaking speed.
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Spiller is said to have a lot of potential but we needed secondary help in a major way. Perhaps you've forgotten our back 7 getting toasted all season long in 2009???
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Better shop around. Some names will be coming available now; I like some of what we got rid of. The FO history starts with this class. Still flushing some leftovers; regime changes do trhis. I think we are deeper and more competitive going into season now than the past RAC years. JMO. But as a trend? It is upwards.
I see little to gain from bashing the past failures. Documented by our records. But nothing here as proved anything better yet. Hope I want to cheer this very year.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
I see little to gain from bashing the past failures. Documented by our records. But nothing here as proved anything better yet. Hope I want to cheer this very year.
Check the title of the thread and initial post.
This thread is very much about looking at our past draft failures. That's the topic of discussion.
Much can be learned of our past failures.
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When you're on the Couch, Faine-ing interest in the latest Brown's draft picks. Let me Warren you.... The GM doesn't know Jack-son. They Pool their collective opinions and it amounts to nothing more than playing with their Johnson's. Every player they draft will be northCutt and out of the league in a few years.
Years later you may be Jonesing or Green with envy for another team's picks.
I recommend a glass of Captain Morgan's.
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All Pro
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These weren't Jamarcus Russell type busts.
Too early to tell, but in this category I don't think we are the worst in the league (but we sure aren't the best) unlike our passing game last year. They may not all be with us, but a lot are still in the league, and we got something in exchange.
We have a pretty solid o-line, thanks to some good picks. It's not all bad.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Quote:
Indeed. This is still what makes me wonder if we are going to reget passing on C.j Spiller RB
Again with Spiller  let it go dude 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
When you're on the Couch, Faine-ing interest in the latest Brown's draft picks. Let me Warren you.... The GM doesn't know Jack-son. They Pool their collective opinions and it amounts to nothing more than playing with their Johnson's. Every player they draft will be northCutt and out of the league in a few years.
Years later you may be Jonesing or Green with envy for another team's picks.
I recommend a glass of Captain Morgan's.
OUT FREAKNG STANDING 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
When you're on the Couch, Faine-ing interest in the latest Brown's draft picks. Let me Warren you.... The GM doesn't know Jack-son. They Pool their collective opinions and it amounts to nothing more than playing with their Johnson's. Every player they draft will be northCutt and out of the league in a few years.
Years later you may be Jonesing or Green with envy for another team's picks.
I recommend a glass of Captain Morgan's.
....or "don't cry over Spillered milk". 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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It would be Dumervil to cry over Spiller'ed milk. To Arr-ington is human; Hindsight may Seymour clearly, but Ngata single one of you is capable of changing the past, Norwood you be able to do any better.. Don't be a Crab-tree and Don't demand Justice... (who else have people wanted?  )
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you guys are taking this thing way too favre...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Quote:
you guys are taking this thing way too favre...
Be Merri-man, we're on A. Rolle.
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Wimbley coming around the mountain this year, and its all because we decided to move Edwards and Win (slow). 
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Quote:
When you're on the Couch, Faine-ing interest in the latest Brown's draft picks. Let me Warren you.... The GM doesn't know Jack-son. They Pool their collective opinions and it amounts to nothing more than playing with their Johnson's. Every player they draft will be northCutt and out of the league in a few years.
Years later you may be Jonesing or Green with envy for another team's picks.
I recommend a glass of Captain Morgan's.
Ohhhh... you didn't!!!
I applaud you, good job.
gmstrong -----------------
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so clifton geathers is NOT a brown anymore.. they are reporting he is a dolphin now.
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Quote:
so clifton geathers is NOT a brown anymore.. they are reporting he is a dolphin now.
Just saw that...
http://www.kffl.com/team/22/nfl 
<><
#gmstrong
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Quote:
When you're on the Couch, Faine-ing interest in the latest Brown's draft picks. Let me Warren you.... The GM doesn't know Jack-son. They Pool their collective opinions and it amounts to nothing more than playing with their Johnson's. Every player they draft will be northCutt and out of the league in a few years.
Years later you may be Jonesing or Green with envy for another team's picks.
I recommend a glass of Captain Morgan's.
Best post I've seen in a long while.
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2005: UDFA Cribbs still here 
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Look back at other teams and you will probably find that a lot of clubs struggle to keep players from past drafts as well. I just looked back over the Eagles drafts and they too are absent pretty much all their picks from 2001-2006 I believe. It was kind of a have-hazard looksy, cuz I am tired and not trying to do all the research---but it seems like this is pretty common this day in age with FA, and the like.
Plus, of the 7 rounds---its pretty rare to find second-day guys that can carve out a role 5 years into the future with the same club.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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2nd String
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When I first read this I thought, eh that isn't TOO bad considering the time span. Then I checked out the drafts from the same time period from teams in our division  : Steelers- 2001: 1 - Casey Hampton 2002: 3 - Antwan Randle-El, Larry Foote, Brett Keisel 2003: 2 - Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, 2004: 2 - Ben Roethlisberger, Max Starks 2005: 4 - Heath Miller, Bryant McFadden, Trai Essex, Chris Kemoeatu 2006: 1 - Willie Colon 2007: 5 - Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Matt Spaeth, Daniel Sepulveda, William Gay 2008: 5 - Rashard Mendenhall, Limas Sweed, Tony Hillis, Dennis Dixon, Ryan Mundy 2009: 6 - Ziggy Hood, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, Ra'Shon Harris, A.Q. Shipley, David Johnson Ravens- 2001: 1 - Todd Heap 2002: 1 - Ed Reed 2003: 2 - Terrell Suggs, Jarret Johnson 2004: None 2005: None 2006: 4 - Haloti Ngata, Chris Chester, Dawan Landry, Sam Koch, 2007: 5 - Ben Grubbs, Marshal Yanda, Le'Ron McClain, Prescott Burgess, Jared Gaither 2008: 9 - Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Tavares Gooden, Tom Zbikowski, Oniel Cousins, Marcus Smith, David Hale, Haruki Nakamura, Justin Harper, 2009: 5 - Michael Oher, Paul Kruger, Ladarius Webb, Jason Philips, Davon Drew Bengals- 2001: 1 - Chad Johnson 2002: None 2003: 1 - Carson Palmer 2004: 1 - Robert Geathers 2005: 1 - Jonathan Fanene 2006: 4 - Johnathan Joseph, Andrew Whitworth, Frostee Rucker, Domata Peko 2007: 4 - Leon Hall, Marvin White, Matt Toeaina, Chinedum Ndukwe 2008: 7 - Keith Rivers, Jerome Simpson, Pat Sims, Andre Caldwell, Anthony Collins, Jason Shirley, Matt Sherry 2009: 9- Andre Smith, Rey Maualuga, Michael Johnson, Chase Coffman, Kevin Huber, Morgan Trent, Bernard Scott, Fui Vakapuna, Clinton McDonald Granted these teams have had a little more FO stability in comparison to us, but it's still sad either way you look at it.
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Quote:
With the cuts today our draft history looks ... terrible
Looked just as terrible before the cuts . . . 
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Thank you for that,...   What a grisly reminder of how bad it has been for a decade.
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I tend to think that if we hadn't changed regimes so many times since our return that we'd have more of our drafted players still with us and be a hell of a lot better team than we are now.
As has been our way, no one gets the chance to build anything before yet another regime change and roster tear down. Many of our drafted players didn't even get a chance for the "light to come on" in their third year before a coaching and scheme change.
Some of the players who did stick went through 3 different scheme changes. OC's and DC's get changed as often as underwear around here. It's been one step forward and two back for a long, long time.
You bust your ass to make a certain scheme become second nature to you but just before it does somebody else is telling you to do the same thing with yet another scheme. In some cases you just about get that one down and it changes again. It puts the above-average player in a spiral of confusion trying to solidify one mindset after another until before he knows it he's been playing 7 years but has never really caught up with the next new thing. He finishes he career noted as a below-average player.
Going through two or three changes here, and then struggling through another change for a year or two after moving on to another team, and then they're out of the league. This "proves" they were not talented enough in the first place. Closer to the truth is that they never had a chance.
I'm willing to bet that players who enjoy consistency in the organization also enjoy more success in their individual careers. Being tossed this way and that cannot be productive for a player's chance of success.
I feel sorry for a lot of players who's NFL careers were ruined without ever having the luxury of some consistency in their playing years.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
That happens when you change FO and coaches every 3 years or so.
Davis came in and swept away the Clark stuff.
Savage came in a threw away all of the Davis stuff.
Mangini came in and dumped most of the Savage stuff.
Now we have Mangini working with Heckert and Holmgren .... and hopefully we'll wind up with some continuity so we can build for 5-10 years instead of rebuilding 3 or 4 times in 10 years .....
Thats only part of it..the real part is that when U draft garbage it gets swept away along with the crappy FO people.
If those FO people had drafted quality players and then the next group got rid of them I'd have a bigger problem with that..
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Quote:
Quote:
That happens when you change FO and coaches every 3 years or so.
Davis came in and swept away the Clark stuff.
Savage came in a threw away all of the Davis stuff.
Mangini came in and dumped most of the Savage stuff.
Now we have Mangini working with Heckert and Holmgren .... and hopefully we'll wind up with some continuity so we can build for 5-10 years instead of rebuilding 3 or 4 times in 10 years .....
Thats only part of it..the real part is that when U draft garbage it gets swept away along with the crappy FO people.
If those FO people had drafted quality players and then the next group got rid of them I'd have a bigger problem with that..
Gotta agree with that AD,,, no way does Davis, Savage and Mangini get rid of guys if they perform and fit thier system...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The Big Tuna's drafts from the last couple years are looking pretty bad now too.. a couple second rounders gone, third rounders gone.. all in less that 3 years.. that's not good when 2nd and 3rd round guys aren't getting to the end of their rookie contracts before being cut.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
The Big Tuna's drafts from the last couple years are looking pretty bad now too.. a couple second rounders gone, third rounders gone.. all in less that 3 years.. that's not good when 2nd and 3rd round guys aren't getting to the end of their rookie contracts before being cut.
It's not good at all,, But it shows something.. anyone,, even one of the best football minds alive today, can have bad picks... Which is exactly why I get such a kick out of guys that wanted Mangini gone when he picked guys like Miava and Veikune
all the greats have had bad draft picks.. Bound to happen the longer you stay in the business..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum With the cuts today our draft
history looks ... terrible
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