Trump has offered them 25% more than what they paid for the land - with a stipulation that any new mosque would be built at least 5 blocks further away.
A 25% return on your investment, for doing nothing - yet they refuse.
Is this Trump looking for press? Absolutely. But the offer was made. And the mosque people refused. Why would they refuse? If someone offered me 25% more for my house than I paid (10 years ago, mind you - let alone a few months ago for the land for the mosque), I'd be packing my stuff up and moving out.
Why are the mosque wannabe builders not taking this offer?
Or it could be because they feel that if they sell this land, with all this angry rhetoric being thrown around, they wouldn't be able to get another suitable piece of land in a good location.
Either way, it doesn't matter, they have a right to build it and I believe they should.
On 9/11, Islamic terrorists didn't attack Christians. They attacked America, and last I checked American meant that you could be any religion - and many Muslims died that day so I don't understand this "building an Islamic victory mosque" rhetoric many(not you) are professing.
GAINESVILLE, Fla. – A Florida minister who had created an international furor with his plan to burn the Quran on the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks canceled the event under intense pressure Thursday, saying he agreed to back off after reaching a deal to move the location of a controversial mosque near New York's ground zero.
The Rev. Terry Jones announced his decision Thursday afternoon, standing outside his small church alongside Imam Muhammad Musri, the president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida. However, Musri and the imam planning the New York mosque disputed Jones' contention that a deal had been cut.
After the news conference, Musri told The Associated Press there was an agreement for him and Jones to travel to New York and meet Saturday — on the actual anniversary of the 9/11 attacks — with the imam overseeing plans to build a mosque near ground zero.
"I told the pastor that I personally believe the mosque should not be there, and I will do everything in my power to make sure it is moved," Musri said. "But there is not any offer from there (New York) that it will be moved. All we have agreed to is a meeting, and I think we would all like to see a peaceful resolution."
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said he was surprised by the announcement and that he would not barter.
Jones, the pastor of a Florida Pentecostal church of 50 members, has said that he believes the Quran is evil because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.
Jones on Thursday said he prayed about the decision and that if the site of the mosque was moved, it would be a sign from God to call off the Quran burning.
"We are, of course, now against any other group burning Qurans," Jones said during the news conference. We would right now ask no one to burn Qurans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it."
His decision comes after a firestorm of criticism from leaders around the world. President Barack Obama, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and several Christian leaders had urged Jones to reconsider his plans. They said his actions would endanger U.S. soldiers and provide a strong recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Jones' protest also drew criticism from religious and political leaders from across the Muslim world.
They warned that the plan would put Americans in danger around the world. In Afghanistan, hundreds of angry Afghans burned an American flag and chanted "Death to the Christians" to protest the planned Quran burning.
Musri thanked Jones and his church members "for making the decision today to defuse the situation and bring to a positive end what has become the world over a spectacle that no one would benefit from except extremists and terrorists" who would use it to recruit future radicals.
Russ Blackburn, Gainesville city manager: "It's very good news for Gainesville and good news for everyone involved."
Jones' neighbors in Gainesville, a city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, also have said they disapprove. At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in the city have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services.
Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. It follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.
Go figure...
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I don't know - the imam in new york has also recently said that NOT building it there - the mosque - would lead to terrorism. Basically he was saying "if we don't build it here, it will lead to even more terrorism against the u.s."
His "stipulation" that Mosques not be built within a five block radius of the WTC is also ridiculous. What does he say about the mosque that is four blocks away and already in existence? Should that be torn down Mr. Trump? What about the Catholic churches and Protestant churches nearby? Should they also be gone. Under the equal protection clause, shouldn't the rules for one religion also hold true to the other religions?
So, Mr. Trump, how do you feel about that, no churches, synagogues, mosques, buddhist shrines, or any religion whatsoever within a five block radius of the WTC. Heck, how about a five block radius from anything "traumatic". Nothing within a five block radius of Columbine High School. Nothing within a five block radius of Virginia Tech. Nothing within a five block radius of where the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was in Oklahoma City.
It is a lie made by somebody who just wants to be in the news. Tomorrow, or Saturday he will call another press conference saying that they aren't complying and that he'll go ahead with the burning. Why? Because he is lying about contacting them. He wants to play this for attention and this is him trying to hold a religion hostage.
It is a lie made by somebody who just wants to be in the news. Tomorrow, or Saturday he will call another press conference saying that they aren't complying and that he'll go ahead with the burning. Why? Because he is lying about contacting them. He wants to play this for attention and this is him trying to hold a religion hostage.
The only reason they are insisting on building it there is to make us look weak. Sure it is legal but anybody who is not an idiot knows Islam is not our friend. Go over to one of those dust bowls they livein and try to build a Christian church next to some sacred site.
GAINESVILLE, Fla. — The leader of a tiny church on Thursday backed off his threat to burn the Quran, saying he gave up the plan in exchange for a deal to move a planned Islamic center and mosque away from New York's ground zero. The imam planning the center, however, quickly denied any such deal.
The Rev. Terry Jones had been under intense pressure to back off, including a statement from President Barack Obama and a personal call from U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates. Jones made his announcement outside his church alongside Imam Muhammad Musri, the president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida.
After the news conference, Musri told The Associated Press there was an agreement for him and Jones to travel to New York and meet Saturday — on the actual anniversary of the 9/11 attacks — with the imam overseeing plans to build a mosque near ground zero.
"I told the pastor that I personally believe the mosque should not be there, and I will do everything in my power to make sure it is moved," Musri said. "But there is not any offer from there (New York) that it will be moved. All we have agreed to is a meeting, and I think we would all like to see a peaceful resolution."
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said he was surprised by the announcement and that he would not barter.
Speaking to reporters later, Jones was adamant that he was promised that the Islamic center would be moved, and said he would be "very, very disappointed" if it were not.
Jones, the pastor of a Florida Pentecostal church of 50 members, has said that he believes the Quran is evil because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.
Jones on Thursday said he prayed about the decision and that if the site of the mosque was moved, it would be a sign from God to call off the Quran burning.
"We are, of course, now against any other group burning Qurans," Jones said during the news conference. We would right now ask no one to burn Qurans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it."
His decision comes after a firestorm of criticism from leaders around the world. President Barack Obama, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and several Christian leaders had urged Jones to reconsider his plans. They said his actions would endanger U.S. soldiers and provide a strong recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Jones' protest also drew criticism from religious and political leaders from across the Muslim world.
They warned that the plan would put Americans in danger around the world. In Afghanistan, hundreds of angry Afghans burned an American flag and chanted "Death to the Christians" to protest the planned Quran burning.
Musri thanked Jones and his church members "for making the decision today to defuse the situation and bring to a positive end what has become the world over a spectacle that no one would benefit from except extremists and terrorists" who would use it to recruit future radicals.
Russ Blackburn, Gainesville city manager: "It's very good news for Gainesville and good news for everyone involved."
Jones' neighbors in Gainesville, a city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, also have said they disapprove. At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in the city have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services.
Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. It follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.
His "stipulation" that Mosques not be built within a five block radius of the WTC is also ridiculous. What does he say about the mosque that is four blocks away and already in existence? Should that be torn down Mr. Trump? What about the Catholic churches and Protestant churches nearby? Should they also be gone. Under the equal protection clause, shouldn't the rules for one religion also hold true to the other religions?
If there is a mosque 4 blocks away - why the insistence on building this one - especially if you can make a 25% profit and build a bigger, better one somewhere else?
If there is a mosque 4 blocks away, why is this one needed?
As for the rest of your post - churches, synagogues, budhist shrines........any other religion - they didn't blow up the building that killed 2800 Americans.
Now, I know you're tempermental - so let me type this slow for you - they have a right to build it. No doubt. No question.
But if you're talking about anything I own, and you're giving me a 25% profit right off the bat - boy, you own it.
Why is it so important to have a mosque next to ground zero? Why will they not budge?
Quote: The only reason they are insisting on building it there is to make us look weak.
Not true. Building it there is a sign that Muslims are American Citizens. It is a Cultural Center, not a Mosque. It simply includes an area devoted to prayer.
Quote: Sure it is legal but anybody who is not an idiot knows Islam is not our friend. Go over to one of those dust bowls they livein and try to build a Christian church next to some sacred site.
I see, so, you simply hate Muslims. As you put it "build a christian chuch in the dust bowl they live in". This is not about Muslim countries. This is about Muslim citizens in the United States. The laws in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, or any other Muslim nation are not the topic here. The topic here is whether you want to deny a specific religion the freedom to worship in this nation. Do you feel it is "Un-American" for a citizen in this country to call their god "Allah"? Reading many of your posts you are of the mindset that the only religion that should be allowed in this country is Christianity.
Quote: As for the rest of your post - churches, synagogues, budhist shrines........any other religion - they didn't blow up the building that killed 2800 Americans.
Do you really want to go there? Ever heard of the IRA? Basque seperatists in Spain and France? The Maronites of Lebanon? You simply put have a thing against Islam. You breathe hate. Just replace all your posts about Muslims with "Jews" instead and you are a dead ringer for Hitler.
Quote: Why is it so important to have a mosque next to ground zero? Why will they not budge?
Because it is already there. It predates the WTC. The Cultural Center that this is replacing is a basement in a building right now. It is too small to accomodate the people that use it. So, what do you do when something is too small? You relocate to a larger place. That is what this is about. You simply want to discriminate against a specific religion - Islam because you hold them personally responsible for a terrorist attack. Let me ask you, were you this judgemental about McVeigh? Did you give up Christianity because of him? Did you hold Right-Wing Christians responsible for his terrorist act?
Then, why do you hold Islam responsible? I think I know why you blame them. Because they speak a different language than you and their skin color is darker than yours.
Quote: Doesn't much matter, as it won't ever get built.
Quote: The only reason they are insisting on building it there is to make us look weak.
Not true. Building it there is a sign that Muslims are American Citizens. It is a Cultural Center, not a Mosque. It simply includes an area devoted to prayer.
Quote: Sure it is legal but anybody who is not an idiot knows Islam is not our friend. Go over to one of those dust bowls they livein and try to build a Christian church next to some sacred site.
I see, so, you simply hate Muslims. As you put it "build a christian chuch in the dust bowl they live in". This is not about Muslim countries. This is about Muslim citizens in the United States. The laws in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, or any other Muslim nation are not the topic here. The topic here is whether you want to deny a specific religion the freedom to worship in this nation. Do you feel it is "Un-American" for a citizen in this country to call their god "Allah"? Reading many of your posts you are of the mindset that the only religion that should be allowed in this country is Christianity.
Charlie sure is silly.
The Muslims have a right to build their center even though it will aggravate the situation with US citizens. US citizens don't have the right to burn the Muslim holy book though, because it will upset Muslims. Come on Charlie, you can't even argue the same point the same way...
The Muslims have a right to build their center even though it will aggravate the situation with US citizens. US citizens don't have the right to burn the Muslim holy book though, because it will upset Muslims. Come on Charlie, you can't even argue the same point the same way..
So, simply, you want to deny rights to one group of people because you do not like their religion.
Quote: The only reason they are insisting on building it there is to make us look weak.
Not true. Building it there is a sign that Muslims are American Citizens. It is a Cultural Center, not a Mosque. It simply includes an area devoted to prayer.
Quote: Sure it is legal but anybody who is not an idiot knows Islam is not our friend. Go over to one of those dust bowls they livein and try to build a Christian church next to some sacred site.
I see, so, you simply hate Muslims. As you put it "build a christian chuch in the dust bowl they live in". This is not about Muslim countries. This is about Muslim citizens in the United States. The laws in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, or any other Muslim nation are not the topic here. The topic here is whether you want to deny a specific religion the freedom to worship in this nation. Do you feel it is "Un-American" for a citizen in this country to call their god "Allah"? Reading many of your posts you are of the mindset that the only religion that should be allowed in this country is Christianity.
Are you aware of some of the things they are pulling. If they are such good Americans why are they demanding they be governed under Shiria law. If the people who lost loved one on 9/11 don't want a mosque there why are they insisting. I said it was legal but why cause more heartache for the survivers? Its what radical Islam does , they come to a free country and use our own freedoms against us.Would 'nt the decent thing be to not build it there. Ask England how they are getting along with your sweetheart Muslims.
Quote: Are you aware of some of the things they are pulling. If they are such good Americans why are they demanding they be governed under Shiria law. If the people who lost loved one on 9/11 don't want a mosque there why are they insisting. I said it was legal but why cause more heartache for the survivers? Its what radical Islam does , they come to a free country and use our own freedoms against us.Would 'nt the decent thing be to not build it there. Ask England how they are getting along with your sweetheart Muslims.
The "families of 9/11 victims" are not against it. Pamela Geller and her group SIOA (Stop Islamization of America) are behind this. They are pulling out extremists to back them. Simply put, this is what extremist Christianity does. They believe that this nation is a "Christian" nation and that their goal in life is to eliminate "Islam". It is simply a religion trying to flex its muscles against a different religion.
So, Christians in this country are denying Muslims their rights under the Bill of Rights. Freedom of Religion. Mosques are being protested in Tennessee, Wisconsin, California, Florida, and Michigan. Hate Crimes again Muslims are increasing. Why? Because Christian fundamentalists want to create a "Holy War" against Islam. Muslims are not trying to create Sharia law in this nation. They are trying to get the rights they are guaranteed. If a person has a religious holiday or such that interferes with work, businesses are required to accomodate them. The thing is though, that since these are Muslims they don't want to. Why? Because they consider Muslims to be "outsiders" and "foreigners". It is the same thing over and over again. Whether the Chinese, Africans, Jews, Catholics, etc... now it is Muslims. All of them have been persecuted in the history of this country and now that Muslims are a growing segment of the population of the country the old ways are coming back.
This country was founded on the belief of Freedom of Religion. So, we are at a crossroads, do we want to continue to have freedom of religion. Or do we not? It is highly recommended that the GOP, Tea Partiers, and all other right wingers pay attention to that question. Do they want this country to have freedom of religion or not?
If we have Freedom of Religion then Muslims are to be tolerated and given equal rights. If not, if you want to continue to persecute them. You had better change the Bill of Rights. Get rid of Freedom of Religion and replace it with "Christianity" as being named your state religion. Because right now, that is the way all you right-wingers, Tea-Partiers, and Republicans are acting.
The Muslims have a right to build their center even though it will aggravate the situation with US citizens. US citizens don't have the right to burn the Muslim holy book though, because it will upset Muslims. Come on Charlie, you can't even argue the same point the same way..
So, simply, you want to deny rights to one group of people because you do not like their religion.
Charlie, do you realize how stupid your talking point is? Seriously as you go on and on about "Rights" I have to laugh...because you sound so silly.
People can object to things that people have the right to do for a variety of reasons. Ever heard of an intervention for alcoholics? Do alcoholics have a right to drink themselves to death? Sure. People can be against it anyways.
Do Muslims have a right to build where they want in our country? Sure, even if it enrages people. Do Americans have a right to burn the Quran...or any book for that matter? Sure, even if it enrages people.
I do not have to like or agree with either of them...even though they both are Constitutionally protected. I got a big chuckle out of the article I read that talked about us being sensitive to the feelings of Muslims regarding the book...as it was accompanied by a picture of Muslims standing on the American flag. If it isn't a two way street I don't feel the need to work so hard to coddle people.
Two issues with different arguments to benefit the same side. If they can't build the mosque it will enrage Muslims...if some stupid church burns some books it will enrage Muslims. The only way is THEIR way and you are deluded to believe otherwise.
Do you really want to go there? Ever heard of the IRA? Basque seperatists in Spain and France? The Maronites of Lebanon?
I've heard of some of them. I'm pretty sure they didn't build temples, churches, or mosques on ground they blew up.
Quote:
You simply put have a thing against Islam. You breathe hate. Just replace all your posts about Muslims with "Jews" instead and you are a dead ringer for Hitler.
I will refrain from saying what I'm thinking. But I will say I think you are stupid for constantly attempting to say I hate islam, or muslims. Attempting to put stupid words in my mouth - when what I have said is public knowledge - well, it just makes you look stupid.
Quote: Why is it so important to have a mosque next to ground zero? Why will they not budge?
Because it is already there. It predates the WTC. The Cultural Center that this is replacing is a basement in a building right now. It is too small to accomodate the people that use it. So, what do you do when something is too small? You relocate to a larger place. That is what this is about. You simply want to discriminate against a specific religion - Islam because you hold them personally responsible for a terrorist attack. Let me ask you, were you this judgemental about McVeigh? Did you give up Christianity because of him? Did you hold Right-Wing Christians responsible for his terrorist act?
Then, why do you hold Islam responsible? I think I know why you blame them. Because they speak a different language than you and their skin color is darker than yours.
Quote: Doesn't much matter, as it won't ever get built.
It will be built.
Honestly, I won't waste much time with you. Your ignorant insistence that I hate muslims, or islam - just stupid. Flat out stupid.
Quote: So, Christians in this country are denying Muslims their rights under the Bill of Rights. Freedom of Religion. Mosques are being protested in Tennessee, Wisconsin, California, Florida, and Michigan. Hate Crimes again Muslims are increasing. Why? Because Christian fundamentalists want to create a "Holy War" against Islam. Muslims are not trying to create Sharia law in this nation.
A Virginia man at the heart of a court battle involving free speech, religion and public safety issues is confident he'll beat the charges against him.
"I have faith in our system. I have faith in our nation. I have no worries at all," said Nabeel Qureshi, 27, one of four arrested for disturbing the peace at the June 18 Arab International Festival. City officials and police say Qureshi, along with Negeen Mayel, 18, of California, and Paul Rezkalla, 18, and David Wood, 34, both of New York, were arrested after what police said was a public safety issue.
(These were the guys arrested for handing out Christian leaflets outside an Arabic festival...on a public street.)
Well ..... evidently Strip clubs are fine on "hallowed ground" .....but a Muslim Center and/or Mosque cannot be allowed on such a "sacred site".
This entire incident has been an embarassment from the very beginning. Frankly, I am ashamed that so many Americans could treat other Americans with such distain and even flat out hatred because of their religion.
As far as the nutjob down in Florida ..... he was probably paid off. He got what he wanted .... lots of attention, and probably lots of money.
I am also surprised that so many in the Muslim world are unable or unwilling to see that burning the American flag is seen as being just as offensive as burning a Koran would be to them. They do not consider that we hold our collective temper over such an offensive act.
Frankly, I am disgusted by a really large portion of humanity right now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Why are the mosque wannabe builders not taking this offer?
well, this kinda proves what I was wondering about. I had a feeling that the idea behind this mosque in that location had little to do with religoin but instead, more to do with enraging America..
While I understand and will defend thier right to put that mosque there, I, just like the President, question the wisdom.
Them turning down Trumps offer says, this isn't about money, this isn't about right or wrong, this is a slap to the face of Americans....
JMO
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If you put yourself in their shoes ..... and are called miserable excuses for human beings who do not deserve to be on "hallowed ground" among the strip clubs in the neighborhood where they purchased land to build .... how would you react?
Be completely honest.
You are called a terrorist for wanting to build in the same 5 block area as the worst terrorist attack in American history merely because you share a religion (whether or not you believe in the way the terrorists interpret your religion) with the terrorists who killed 3000 US citizens ..... including others of your very religion.
It is a shameful display by many who call themselves Americans. The people who should apologize are not the American citizens who want to build a Mosque and/or community center ...... but those who would stand in their way based on nothing more than the religion practiced by those being opposed.
Of course .... I guess that it's OK to say and do anything you want against other citizens of this country as long as it's "them" and not "us".
I am ashamed of many of my fellow citizens.
I would also add ...... what if those who ran planes into the WTC building were Black or Hispanic? Would we be justified in saying that we don't want any of "those people" on "sacred ground"? I would hope not ..... but anymore ..... I wonder ......
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 09/09/1009:07 PM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
A pastor is facing a court date after sharing the gospel with Muslims -- in Kansas.
Sharing? Sharing is a preacher showing up at a Mosque after being invited by the Imam to share passages from the Bible. Sharing is not a Preacher going to a mosque and passing out pamphlets for his religion without permission. That is one hell of a spin job you did there to try and make it seem like something else. Buddhists are not permitted to go to Catholic Churches and preach that Buddhism is the way to go. Why? Because it is disrespectful. Yet, you expect Christians to get a free pass to do it wherever the hell they want. That is BULL. Further proof of the America you want.
A Christian country where all other religions are persecuted. Where laws exist to appease Christianity and demean other religions - especially Islam.
Dearborn is your defense? Dearborn where Christians went to a Muslim festival to preach how Islam is a false religion. If a Muslim shows up at a Christian festival denouncing Christianity, they will be arrested. Why? Public disturbance. But, the second a Christian is arrested for the same thing, you say it is unfair to Christians? Double standard yet again, I suppose. You want Christians to be allowed to do whatever they want. But, the second it is a different religion you want them locked up.
That is the only thing I ever get from Christianity. Hypocricy. They want a country where they have Freedom to Worship. Yet, they want a country where you do not have the Freedom to Worship a religion other than Christianity.
If you put yourself in their shoes ..... and are called miserable excuses for human beings who do not deserve to be on "hallowed ground" among the strip clubs in the neighborhood where they purchased land to build .... how would you react?
Be completely honest.
You are called a terrorist for wanting to build in the same 5 block area as the worst terrorist attack in American history merely because you share a religion (whether or not you believe in the way the terrorists interpret your religion) with the terrorists who killed 3000 US citizens ..... including others of your very religion.
It is a shameful display by many who call themselves Americans. The people who should apologize are not the American citizens who want to build a Mosque and/or community center ...... but those who would stand in their way based on nothing more than the religion practiced by those being opposed.
Of course .... I guess that it's OK to say and do anything you want against other citizens of this country as long as it's "them" and not "us".
I am ashamed of many of my fellow citizens.
YTown this happens all over our country to people who are not Muslim though. Businesses, Churches, Schools...they have all been asked to build/move elsewhere.
When we were at war we were prohibited from firing on Muslims firing on us from Mosques because it was a holy site...so our troops would have to skirt around it. The Muslims have no problem making us change our rules and customs...we can be made to give in. But when they are asked to do so we become 'shameful'?
It is even more silly when you compare scenarios with the wacko church in Florida.
If the Muslims aren't allowed to do as they want and are allowed to do by the Constitution then Muslims will probably kill people.
If the 'wacko' Church in Florida does what they want and are allowed to do by the Constitution then the Muslims will probably kill people.
How do you think it would have been received if those at the center of the Mosque issue said that they were going to have a Bible burning ...... with thousands of Bibles to be burned on their site ....?
How do you think that would have been received? Would there have been threats of violence? Actual violence? Would people have died?
I think we both know the answer to those questions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Sharing? Sharing is a preacher showing up at a Mosque after being invited by the Imam to share passages from the Bible. Sharing is not a Preacher going to a mosque and passing out pamphlets for his religion without permission. That is one hell of a spin job you did there to try and make it seem like something else. Buddhists are not permitted to go to Catholic Churches and preach that Buddhism is the way to go. Why? Because it is disrespectful. Yet, you expect Christians to get a free pass to do it wherever the hell they want. That is BULL. Further proof of the America you want.
A Christian country where all other religions are persecuted. Where laws exist to appease Christianity and demean other religions - especially Islam.
A PUBLIC SIDEWALK, spinmaster. Not in a mosque...a PUBLIC SIDEWALK.
The pastor says it was very disconcerting to see the gospel squelched -- especially on a public sidewalk in a country with a constitutional guarantee of free speech. Holick believes police are suggesting that he was blocking traffic on the driveway.
If he were IN the mosque he wouldnt be charged with loitering and failure to disperse...that would be a trespassing charge at the very least.
Your lies show your true colors...
Quote:
Dearborn is your defense? Dearborn where Christians went to a Muslim festival to preach how Islam is a false religion. If a Muslim shows up at a Christian festival denouncing Christianity, they will be arrested. Why? Public disturbance. But, the second a Christian is arrested for the same thing, you say it is unfair to Christians? Double standard yet again, I suppose. You want Christians to be allowed to do whatever they want. But, the second it is a different religion you want them locked up.
That is the only thing I ever get from Christianity. Hypocricy. They want a country where they have Freedom to Worship. Yet, they want a country where you do not have the Freedom to Worship a religion other than Christianity.
They were not in a Muslim festival...again you are evaded by the truth. They were standing outside of a festival...and informed they had to be AT LEAST FIVE BLOCKS AWAY or they would be arrested. Now you do realize that they can distribute documents even in a Muslim festival on PUBLIC PROPERTY...but they werent even in it.
Now what happens when Muslims want to distribute leaflets...Public disturbance arrests you say?
Quote: How do you think it would have been received if those at the center of the Mosque issue said that they were going to have a Bible burning ...... with thousands of Bibles to be burned on their site ....?
How do you think that would have been received? Would there have been threats of violence? Actual violence? Would people have died?
I think we both know the answer to those questions.
Do you think mainstream Christians would have shrugged their shoulders and said "Hey, them extremists...what ya gonna do?". Or...wait, didn't the Pope come out against the burning of the Quran? Isn't he like high in the Christian church? Wait, if I remember my Kevin Smith movies right doesn't what he say go...oh wait, just the Catholics I think. Oh well....
Quote: If he were IN the mosque he wouldnt be charged with loitering and failure to disperse...that would be a trespassing charge at the very least.
So, he wasn't invited there! BINGO
He was not welcome there. He went there to cause a scene. He went there to provoke. Such an innocent Christian ... all he did was go stand outside a mosque ... and provoke Muslims. Hey, an innocent Christian would be somebody walking by a mosque with a cross necklace being beaten. An innocent Christian is not a person who goes to intentionally PROVOKE somebody. The truth shows your true colors.
Quote: They were not in a Muslim festival...again you are evaded by the truth. They were standing outside of a festival...and informed they had to be AT LEAST FIVE BLOCKS AWAY or they would be arrested. Now you do realize that they can distribute documents even in a Muslim festival on PUBLIC PROPERTY...but they werent even in it.
No, I am not evading the truth. The vast majority of Arabs are .... guess what religion? Christian? NO. Buddhist? Buddhist? HELL NO. I know, Shinto, right? NO, not Shinto. What religion could the vast majority of Arabs possibly be. That is such a good question, go look it up why don't you?
Quote: Know what happens when Muslims want to distribute leaflets...Public disturbance arrests you say?
Charlie I do not have a problem with Muslims...I have a problem with people that want it their way and only their way. Like you Charlie...
No, that is something entirely different. Did they go to a Christian festival or just a community festival? They went to a community festival. Not a festival for a specific group. But rather, the community as a whole. If that was a Jesus is the lord festival, they would be locked up.
I'm not talking about the Pope ..... I'm not talking about the highest levels of Christianity ..... I am talking about the entirety of those who profess to be Christians throughout every level and layer of society and economic status.
Do you think that there would have been any members of Christian churches who would threaten or commit acts of violence if the Muslim Community Center would have said that they were going to burn Bibles?
I bet there would have been.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Although Ytown I am beginning to see why people are against mosques going up in their area...
Kansas shows us that the Constitution doesn't apply on public property in front of a mosque and Dearborn teaches us that the Constitution doesn't apply within 5 blocks of any Muslim gathering. Now I don't know about you and Charlie but many people won't want to roll the dice to see how big the distance and what isn't allowed near where they live. And this is just from the 'mainstream' apparently...
Quote: Although Ytown I am beginning to see why people are against mosques going up in their area...
Kansas shows us that the Constitution doesn't apply on public property in front of a mosque and Dearborn teaches us that the Constitution doesn't apply within 5 blocks of any Muslim gathering. Now I don't know about you and Charlie but many people won't want to roll the dice to see how big the distance and what isn't allowed near where they live. And this is just from the 'mainstream' apparently...
The only thing that those things should teach you is that WASPS in this country are extremely racist and will always be racist. These events make one lose faith in humanity. It is disgusting to know that in today's world, not 1950, not 1805, but 2010 people want to deny a group of people the freedom to worship.
He was not welcome there. He went there to cause a scene. He went there to provoke. Such an innocent Christian ... all he did was go stand outside a mosque ... and provoke Muslims. Hey, an innocent Christian would be somebody walking by a mosque with a cross necklace being beaten. An innocent Christian is not a person who goes to intentionally PROVOKE somebody. The truth shows your true colors.
So we must be invited onto public property around mosques? Muslims handing stuff out is not provocative but Christians are...actually, Im done spoon feeding you Charlie. Here it is...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Regardless of the fact that Muslims didn't like him there he had a right to be there.
Your other rambling reply didn't even make it on the "Worth Replying-ometer". Your argument appears to be that public property stops being public property because people of a religious nature are somewhere nearby...which simply isn't true.
Quote: Although Ytown I am beginning to see why people are against mosques going up in their area...
Kansas shows us that the Constitution doesn't apply on public property in front of a mosque and Dearborn teaches us that the Constitution doesn't apply within 5 blocks of any Muslim gathering. Now I don't know about you and Charlie but many people won't want to roll the dice to see how big the distance and what isn't allowed near where they live. And this is just from the 'mainstream' apparently...
The only thing that those things should teach you is that WASPS in this country are extremely racist and will always be racist. These events make one lose faith in humanity. It is disgusting to know that in today's world, not 1950, not 1805, but 2010 people want to deny a group of people the freedom to worship.
Sorry were you referring to the Christians arrested on public property?
Quote: So we must be invited onto public property around mosques? Muslims handing stuff out is not provocative but Christians are...actually, Im done spoon feeding you Charlie. Here it is...
Regardless of the fact that Muslims didn't like him there he had a right to be there.
Your other rambling reply didn't even make it on the "Worth Replying-ometer". Your argument appears to be that public property stops being public property because people of a religious nature are somewhere nearby...which simply isn't true.
Freedom of Religion does not mean that you can go to a religious building that differs from yours with the sole intention of provoking them. I don't know what country you think you live in. But, you do not have the freedom to instigate violence. A Muslim going and standing outside a Christian cathedral preaching Islam to the "non-converted" is provoking Christians. Just as a Christian standing outside a Mosque preaching to the "heathens" is provoking Muslims.
You can preach Christianity. But you cannot preach Christianity at a Synagogue. You cannot preach Christianity at a Buddhist temple. You cannot preach Christianity at an Atheist convention. To do so is an act of provocation.
Quote: So we must be invited onto public property around mosques? Muslims handing stuff out is not provocative but Christians are...actually, Im done spoon feeding you Charlie. Here it is...
Regardless of the fact that Muslims didn't like him there he had a right to be there.
Your other rambling reply didn't even make it on the "Worth Replying-ometer". Your argument appears to be that public property stops being public property because people of a religious nature are somewhere nearby...which simply isn't true.
Freedom of Religion does not mean that you can go to a religious building that differs from yours with the sole intention of provoking them. I don't know what country you think you live in. But, you do not have the freedom to instigate violence. A Muslim going and standing outside a Christian cathedral preaching Islam to the "non-converted" is provoking Christians. Just as a Christian standing outside a Mosque preaching to the "heathens" is provoking Muslims.
You can preach Christianity. But you cannot preach Christianity at a Synagogue. You cannot preach Christianity at a Buddhist temple. You cannot preach Christianity at an Atheist convention. To do so is an act of provocation.
Very good Charlie!! Except that the public property around a building or the 5 block radius around a gathering are not "a religious building"...apparently unless you are Muslim. A Muslim standing on a sidewalk outside of a Church is no more breaking the laws than the reciprocal...can you find a case of an arrested Muslim on public property outside a church to back up your claim or is this mere fantasy?
If you did find it would that make it right?? I am pretty sure that would be against the Constitution as well. Is it that way in Charlieworld?
Quote: Very good Charlie!! Except that the public property around a building or the 5 block radius around a gathering are not "a religious building"...apparently unless you are Muslim. A Muslim standing on a sidewalk outside of a Church is no more breaking the laws than the reciprocal...can you find a case of an arrested Muslim on public property outside a church to back up your claim or is this mere fantasy?
If you did find it would that make it right?? I am pretty sure that would be against the Constitution as well. Is it that way in Charlieworld?
You people make me sick.
In one thread, somebody is talking about mass-murdering Muslims. Here, you are talking about how Muslims should allow Christians to tell them how their religion is false and that they are going to burn because they don't accept "Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour".
I am an Atheist. I don't believe in religion. I cannot stand religion. Yet, here I am in the middle of a pissing contest initiated by Christians against Muslims. Christians won't be happy unless they live in a theocracy. A theocracy in which only Christianity is tolerated (but even then they would fight amongst themselves because of the different branches of Christianity). People came to this country because it has religious freedom. Yet, here you are denying them of that. You believe Muslims shouldn't be allowed to have a Mosque, unless that Mosque allows Christians to go in there and preach Christianity to them.
Sure, there are radical Muslims. But, that it is just that. A few radical Muslims. Whereas, there is only one type of Christian - Radical Christianity. That is the only thing that you get day in and day out. The line that seperated radical Christianity from simple Christians. It's gone. Long gone.
In one thread, somebody is talking about mass-murdering Muslims. Here, you are talking about how Muslims should allow Christians to tell them how their religion is false and that they are going to burn because they don't accept "Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour".
Pssst, we make you look silly too. Muslims don't believe Jesus is God. Which in essence is the Muslims telling the Christians their religion is false. They both kinda do that...I am pretty sure a lot of religions are out there contradicting themselves. It is how they handle it that makes all the difference in the world. Just like you have ignored the facts in front of your face because you *want* to be right. Just because they have religion doesn't make them right or wrong.
Quote: I am an Atheist. I don't believe in religion. I cannot stand religion. Yet, here I am in the middle of a pissing contest initiated by Christians against Muslims. Christians won't be happy unless they live in a theocracy. A theocracy in which only Christianity is tolerated (but even then they would fight amongst themselves because of the different branches of Christianity). People came to this country because it has religious freedom. Yet, here you are denying them of that. You believe Muslims shouldn't be allowed to have a Mosque, unless that Mosque allows Christians to go in there and preach Christianity to them.
Ahhhh poor Charlie. You decided to jump into the water and are upset because you are wet. And it is everyone else's fault. Even if you have to lie to do it. Consumed by the dark side I guess...
Quote: Sure, there are radical Muslims. But, that it is just that. A few radical Muslims. Whereas, there is only one type of Christian - Radical Christianity. That is the only thing that you get day in and day out. The line that seperated radical Christianity from simple Christians. It's gone. Long gone.
I am sure Christians appreciate you speaking for them and making their decisions for them! Don't let reality get in the way buddy...you know better!
Quote: It is how they handle it that makes all the difference in the world.
Exactly, glad you finally see the truth. Christians going off and provoking Muslims is not a good idea and as you said, "how they handle it makes all the difference in the world."
This "Pastor" in Florida. This "outcry" in New York, Florida, Tennessee, California, Michigan, and Wisconsin is really ridiculous. Muslims have the right to worship. Denying them of that basic right, plays right into Al Qaeda and the terrorists hands. Al-Qaeda doesn't need propaganda. You are doing it for them.
Quote: I am sure Christians appreciate you speaking for them and making their decisions for them! Don't let reality get in the way buddy...you know better!
It is really clear to everyone, aside from Christians who think too highly of themselves and their "peaceful ways". "Peaceful" ways like denying Muslims the right to worship, peaceful ways like declaring that Muslims need to be mass-murdered (in the other thread), peaceful ways like protesting Mosques in Tennessee, Wisconsin, California, Florida, and Michigan.
In one thread, somebody is talking about mass-murdering Muslims. Here, you are talking about how Muslims should allow Christians to tell them how their religion is false and that they are going to burn because they don't accept "Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour".
I am an Atheist. I don't believe in religion. I cannot stand religion. Yet, here I am in the middle of a pissing contest initiated by Christians against Muslims. Christians won't be happy unless they live in a theocracy. A theocracy in which only Christianity is tolerated (but even then they would fight amongst themselves because of the different branches of Christianity). People came to this country because it has religious freedom. Yet, here you are denying them of that. You believe Muslims shouldn't be allowed to have a Mosque, unless that Mosque allows Christians to go in there and preach Christianity to them.
Sure, there are radical Muslims. But, that it is just that. A few radical Muslims. Whereas, there is only one type of Christian - Radical Christianity. That is the only thing that you get day in and day out. The line that seperated radical Christianity from simple Christians. It's gone. Long gone.
Do you see any of the irony in your post here? Once again - it makes you appear ignorant.
, you are talking about how Muslims should allow Christians to tell them how their religion is false and that they are going to burn because they don't accept "Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour".
I missed that part. Can you show it to me? Quote the post that said that? Thanks in advance. I just missed it.
Quote:
I am an Atheist. I don't believe in religion. I cannot stand religion.
I believe a better quote would be you can't stand Christianity. But, you still attend church - according to what you said in a different thread.
Quote:
Yet, here I am in the middle of a pissing contest initiated by Christians against Muslims. Christians won't be happy unless they live in a theocracy. A theocracy in which only Christianity is tolerated (but even then they would fight amongst themselves because of the different branches of Christianity).
Ah. And muslims don't do that, do they? And further more, this isn't about christians antagonizing muslims. Not at all.
Quote:
People came to this country because it has religious freedom. Yet, here you are denying them of that. You believe Muslims shouldn't be allowed to have a Mosque, unless that Mosque allows Christians to go in there and preach Christianity to them.
Wow. I must have missed alot. Who said muslims can't have a mosque? I missed that. Thanks for showing me the quote about that.
Quote:
Sure, there are radical Muslims. But, that it is just that. A few radical Muslims. Whereas, there is only one type of Christian - Radical Christianity. That is the only thing that you get day in and day out. The line that seperated radical Christianity from simple Christians. It's gone. Long gone.
You just showed your true colors. As you have in other threads where you recommend socialism.
Radical Christianity is the only christianity there is??????????
Yet only a "few" muslims are radical.
Got it.
Muslims should be allowed to incite Christians, but christians can't incite muslims. Got it.
Muslims can swear to kill Americans and that's fine, but christians can't say anything about muslims.
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
Even if you have to lie to do it. Consumed by the dark side I guess...