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I mentioned Haden and Ward in another thread but I thought after the amount of disappointment most of us are feeling, maybe we could discuss these 2 draft picks b/c IMO they are at least showing some promise.
HADEN
Obviously this pick will be critiqued quite a bit since it was our #1 pick and it wasn't the pick many thought we would take. With that said, I think the kid is showing some great promise/potential.
COVERAGES - he's had some rookie moments, but he appears to an untrained eye to be keeping with his WR coverages.
SPEED - he's got some serious on the field speed.
SPECIAL TEAMS - I think this could be a huge contribution this year on this team. Against KC he lit up their blocker(s) often and was first at the returner many times. Since Cribbs is no longer gunning, looks like Haden could fill that role nicely.
WARD
All I can say about this guy at this point is that he's not afraid to get in there and hit someone. He seems to be around the ball and has a nose for it. He'll lower his helmet and pads against anyone. He's also contributed to the special teams effort.
With that said, they are both rookies and will make those mistakes that look easy to us in hindsight. But given the draft record of this franchise, these 2 picks so far are at the very least showing some real potential (unlike other picks from previous years no longer on the team or still waiting to see something). They still have a long way to go but 2 weeks in to the regular season, I think we at least have something to look forward to.
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Ward was a home run. Guy was our best defender in week 1 and one of our best three or four in week 2 (with Benard, Rubin, Roth.) Only bad thing you can possibly say about the pick is that Clausen was still on the board and we still don't have a QB. Great player, great pick, though. Best safety on our squad from the first game and provides good coverage on kickoffs as well.
Haden's got some work to do to justify #7 overall but has definitely shown some really good ability. I agree, his punt coverage makes me feel a lot better about Cribbs being taken of that unit. Shown a good ability to plant and drive to the ball for the deflection on short and intermediate routes. Can't afford to get beat on the early move on a deep ball though. As far as his corner play goes, right now he seems a lot like Brandon McDonald with very good tackling willingness and ability... which actually is pretty good.
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Quote:
say about the pick is that Clausen was still on the board and we still don't have a QB.
Don't worry, if we'd have taken Claussen we still wouldn't have a QB and we'd be without a top-flight Safety 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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yeah, they look above average right now in my opinion. but that will only last until they become ingratiated into the Browns system and become worn down by losses. at that point, they will be going through the motions like the rest of them. sunday = payday. nothing more, nothing less.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
yeah, they look above average right now in my opinion. but that will only last until they become ingratiated into the Browns system and become worn down by losses. at that point, they will be going through the motions like the rest of them. sunday = payday. nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah, I really hope that the team turns the corner so guys that are hungry don't lose that hunger. But you bring up an excellent point - right now this is all new and they are ready to play in the big time. Losing seasons however can quickly tear that down.
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I doubt that anyone thinks that either of these guys are finished products.. But Haden seems to have a lot of skill,,, has made rookie mistakes but that's to be expected..
Ward was a homerun..
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I doubt that anyone thinks that either of these guys are finished products.. But Haden seems to have a lot of skill,,, has made rookie mistakes but that's to be expected..
Ward was a homerun..
Right daman - far from a finished pro product for sure. I didn't mean to imply that these guys were pro-ready after 2 weeks. Just that they both look like good picks at this point.
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Ward is exactly what I expected.
Haden is actually showing a lot more than I thought he would. I'm very impressed that he has played so well, as corner is probably the hardest position outside of QB to play in the NFL.
you had a good run Hank.
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I'll say that the thing I like best about Haden and Ward are that they are sure tacklers.
How many times in the past did our DBs not wrap someone up. It seems like when Haden and Ward make the tackle, the guy isn't going much farther.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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 Gotta agree, I don't see how that weakness can't be evaluated /eliminated during the supposedly scrutinous scouting process of college ball. These two are better than 30 of the DB's we've had since '99.
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I think both are very solid and combined with Wright I think our secondary is in good shape for a long time.. now if Asante can come along and be good.. wow, we will have turned arguably our greatest weakness from last year into one of our biggest strengths.. Then we can focus a couple high picks on the pass rush and the run stuffing LB that will make them look even better.
yebat' Putin
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I don't have a issue with either player..the secondary needed a upgrade and I repeatedly said anything that gets Brandon McDonald off the field is a addition..and it worked..
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Quote:
I'll say that the thing I like best about Haden and Ward are that they are sure tacklers.
How many times in the past did our DBs not wrap someone up. It seems like when Haden and Ward make the tackle, the guy isn't going much farther.
Didn't even think of that - so true. Seems like they make the tackle stick. And Ward even puts a little extra 'tap' into it. 
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I'm excited about Haden. I'm really looking forward to him continuing to improve. I think you can already see some improvement in these few games.
Ward is making everyone forget about Berry. I don't think it's a big secret that he was the guy we really coveted with our #7 pick. I tip my hat to Ward. As several have already said, guy looks to be a home run.
People are mentioning the "Browns Effect", or them just settling into a groove after they get enough losses under their belt. This is where our new front office comes in. They get another good draft in the books, maybe another Sheldon Brown-esque signing in the near future and pick up a couple more winners.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I'm pretty happy with both guys. It is nice to see DBs who both are excellent tacklers and play aggressively. We haven't had that for a while around.
Having said that, man I wish Berry had fallen to us. Watching him play yesterday was a treat (even though he was our opponent). Excellent instincts, great speed and aggressiveness and sure tackling. Ward is a very good player and I'm glad we have him. However, Berry is a complete player in every possible way. The Chiefs got a real gem with him.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Did you watch the game? Berry was outplayed by Ward.
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I was there and I completely disagree. Berry made several plays in run support that were nothing short of amazing. I had no problems at all with Ward's play, but Berry is, easily, a more complete player at this point in their respective careers and it showed yesterday.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Berry gave up that TD on Cribbs because he bit on the Play Action. Ward was in on run support all day. Not sure How Berry outplayed him, granted he had a couple aggressive plays but he looked like a rookie, Ward didn't.
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i wanted Berry, still wouldn't have minded getting Berry.. but if you ask me would I rather have Berry and some second rounder to be named later.. or Haden and Ward, right now I'm thinking I'm pretty happy with Haden and Ward.. If Ward is in the discussion with Berry then we win because we got a safety of that caliber AND a top notch cornerback..
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That's your opinion and your welcome to it.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Agreed. As I said in my initial post, I'm pretty happy with both Haden and Ward.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Berry did get smoked on that play...
Doesn't change my opinion that he is and is going to be a great safety. But, at this point, I think it's a wash between Ward and Haden vs. Berry and someone else (would we still have taken Ward? I'm not so sure.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Good picks, will only get better.....We need a pass rush in the first round next year more than we need a rookie QB.
2nd round a Olineman
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I thought you was a first round OLineman guy ?  ,....or was it first or second OLineman every year ? (Just as good for me,....)
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1st or 2nd round.....perferbly the 1st but I realize we have other glaring needs we might have to address in the first round....LOL
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Both get TWO Thumbs
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Quote:
Both get TWO Thumbs
How do you not give them thumbs up?? They are both playing great.
We don't have to worry about them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I've been impressed. Both have not looked too overwhelmed. Now if we can just get Lauvao back. I think Hardesty could potentially develop [rehab] and also be a core contributor from this draft class. What position (#) we pick will go along way in determining witch positions will have the value at that point in the draft. Someone made mention of Berry being their choice with the 1st pick last April. Mine too..... as well as countless others who had us taking him in the draft, before thrown a spit ball by KC. Berry wasn't available and as it turned out..... There were no top CB's left by the time we picked again in the 2nd round. They way I see it......It was serendipitous, because we ended up filling needs at both of those positions. I have a strong feeling there will be a flood of under class men coming out for next Aprils Draft. I think we have a big need for a pass rushing DE. That position is at a premium and I don't think you will find one after the 1st round even with the possibility of a Jr boom. OL appears to be a little deeper, maybe not as deep as last Aprils Draft, but still some good talent coming out there. Wisconsin alone might have 3 OL prospects drafted. In random order the top 10 OT prospects could be. [Preliminary] Matt Reynolds, BYU (Jr.). Blake DeChristopher, Virginia Tech (Jr.). Antony Castonzo, Boston College. Gabe Carimi*, Wisconsin. Nate Solder, Colorado. Nate Potter, Boise State (Jr.). Clint Boling, Georgia Mike Adams, Ohio State (Jr.). Marcus Cannon, TCU Josh Oglesby, Wisconsin (Jr.). Who did I forget
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I didn't like the ward pick but after watching berry, I think he was a great pick cause Berry makes to many mistakes even for a rookie.
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Barring injuries both will be at least average to good starters for years in this league....thankfully we at least have 1 competent guy in the org with Heckert, who got to pick Haden over Mangini's Wilson, who got picked on a lot and looked horrible in week 1....Wilson's also 2 years older than Haden Ward is a Bob Sanders clone and could land on IR a lot playing the way he is, but gotta love it....maybe we get lucky for once BTW, I picked both those guys and N.Allen, starting FS with already 2 INTs, in my mock....along with TE Moeaki...that's already 4 rookie starters, along with 2-3 who have a pretty good shot endinf up starters.....just hire me already
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
I didn't like the ward pick but after watching berry, I think he was a great pick cause Berry makes to many mistakes even for a rookie.
I felt the same way about Berry - was tremendous on run support but so far has been getting burned on play actions/passes.
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All of these guys are rookies..some catch on faster than others..I wouldn't criticze Berry and any others(unless they suck) too hatrd ..they have to gain experience ..
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Quote:
All of these guys are rookies..some catch on faster than others..I wouldn't criticze Berry and any others(unless they suck) too hatrd ..they have to gain experience ..
Yep, but we are talking about how they look right now.
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I didn't mean to imply that these guys were pro-ready after 2 weeks.
I would. They're starting over vets (on an admittedly poor team). Are they all pro yet? No. But they're definitely good enough to start on half the teams in the league.
There are no sacred cows.
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Quote:
Quote:
I didn't mean to imply that these guys were pro-ready after 2 weeks.
I would. They're starting over vets (on an admittedly poor team). Are they all pro yet? No. But they're definitely good enough to start on half the teams in the league.
Yeah, I guess that's a way to look at it, good point. They did earn starting spots on a professional team right away.
I suppose it's all relative to the talent they are up against, but they are starting.
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They don't look bad right now after 2 freaking games.  ..the area they all will be weak at is coverage..they have no NFL experience to draw on..they've never seen these QB's/WR's before..their responsibilites are greater now.They have to learn the nuances of the game..U should be able to see how all of them are very easy to fall for fakes, double moves,etc..once they gain experience watch their game elevate.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/21/10 10:58 AM.
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True. The QB's and WR haven't seen them yet either though
There are no sacred cows.
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Yeah but the pros at least have worked against other rookies. And I'm sure that there's things that all rookies (no matter the learning curve/talent ability) always fall for.
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Quote:
They don't look bad right now after 2 freaking games. ..the area they all will be weak at is coverage..they have no NFL experience to draw on..they've never seen these QB's/WR's before..their responsibilites are greater now.They have to learn the nuances of the game..U should be able to see how all of them are very easy to fall for fakes, double moves,etc..once they gain experience watch their game elevate.
In other words,, Rookie mistakes that if they are real, they'll learn from and get better...
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DB's are usually very easy to see if they have it or not...and a lot of the DB's in this draft have it..they just have to get experience..and getting burned early on will teach them better techniques.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 2 Weeks Done - Thoughts on Haden
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