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I think it would be a shocker if we got him for any less than a first.
If this organization gives up a 1st rd pick for Kolb then Heckert and Holmgren should be fired...Kolb is not worth a first not even close....however I am not worried, no way no how Heckert or Holmgren give up a 1st for Kolb...
in fact I am "slightly" concerned as to "why" Reid gave up on Kolb so soon.
This has more to do with Kolb then Vick..the Fact Reid said "he can't guarantee Kolb will be on the roster by the trade deadline" in in fact throwing Kolb under the bus
I very highly doubt they could keep the kid now if they wanted to...Kolb is damaged goods as long as he is in Philly....so we should have the leverage here because they are the ones who want to get rid of him...
Why did Reid give up on Kolb so soon?
If Kolb was Reids "QB of the future, his franchise man" why has Reid given up on him after less then 1 game?
something stinks here...I am not saying kolb is a bad player, but those questions make it where if this team offers anything higher then a 4th for this kid I will vomit..a 4th and a player sure..a 1st rder...it better not eve enter the conversation.
there is a reason Reid gave up on this kid so soon, and it wasn't because of Vick...Vick is what 30? he don't have too many years left running like he does...why would you get rid of Kolb for that without a good back up?
The Browns would be smart to put their money on Matt Flynn...they should be on the phone with the Packers inquiring about Flynn..seeing if there is someway we could work out a deal for him...Reid giving up on Kolb(which is exactly what he said in a nice way) worries me big time...now if we give up a late rd pick for Kolb..fine...but the pick better not be higher then a 4th or we will be getting jobbed...
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I don't know. Maybe Vick is the new Favre. last time a team traded good picks for Vick's backup was Schaub in Houston. I'd take those results 
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agreed!
I am just not ready to give up a first for Kolb..
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agreed!
I am just not ready to give up a first for Kolb..
agree there too. especially where we might be picking.
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Kolb was the starter so said Andy Reid. now he is Not. Philly is taking calls and reid gave kolb a vote of confidence, Uhm yeah.
Now for the flip side. Why did we call?
1) after the interception I saw on the face of Jake Delhomme a look I have not seen in a QBs eyes since Charlie frye was decimated by the Steelers and cut the next day...a look of I am in over my head. has Delhomme LOST IT? He looked REALLY shaken, and yet Mangini left him in injured and shaken. I wonder if Jake has lost it: he was interacting VERY LITTLE with his teammates vs the chiefs..from Team captain to what?
We made that call for a reason. I am only speculating . We took a huge risk with Delhomme, a QB who had lost all his confidence in 09. After the INT vs tampa he looked bad and he was looking to the sideline for the hook and for some reason our coach would not.
The person that said Kolb was more ready than Matt Schaub at the time of his trade to the Texans is very mistaken. before Schaub was traded from the Falcons he had many starts subbing for Mike Vick and was STARTER ready. Kolb , on the other hand, was handed the Philly job on the (merit?)of one start( bad move).
Andy Reid will be a scapegoat as I thought in Philly and he could be the next Browns Coach(I hope) due to the Philly connection of our GM.( pure speculation)
So what is the bigger story after TWO games we are making calls about QBs or that Philly is listening. Don't you think the fact WE prompted the call is a bigger one for Browns fans? I hoped the best for the Browns in the Delhomme trade and should he be dumped while I would not be at all surprised I would be personally sad for Jake. We made that call to Philly and that is the ONLY TRUTH we know at this moment. All I have said is pure speculation yet the fact that we made it does say something to all our QBs and how team management feels about our QB situation. To me it infers something is afoot and it is NOT good.
Mike Vick is a Tease. Always has been. Maybe there is a new chapter for Vick in Philly, Yet my bet is to go with how that horse has shown in past races. I Always thought Atlanta made a horrible move when they traded Scahaub and told local sports show in Vick they had a souped up kodell Stewart( fine athlete poor QB defense recognition) he showed better composure and ability to READ DEFENSES. Vick is the better athlete than Schaub. Kolb has shown me nothing. Do NOT make that trade, it smacks of the same desperation that brought us Jake. And Mangini may already be feeling some desperation.
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The person that said Kolb was more ready than Matt Schaub at the time of his trade to the Texans is very mistaken. before Schaub was traded from the Falcons he had many starts subbing for Mike Vick and was STARTER ready. Kolb , on the other hand, was handed the Philly job on the (merit?)of one start( bad move).
umm....first, I did not say Kolb was more ready only that he had more starts. i thought it was 2 (NO, KC for Kolb last year) to 1 (NE in '05 for Schaub).
turns out I forgot an '04 start in week16 for Schaub vs. NO.
so, they both had 2 career starts in the role as a primary backup (and Kolb added a 3rd start this year before his injury vs. GB).
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Yea, at first I thought that. But, why would the Eagles release this info?
My thought is they are at least throwing out feelers to see if they can start a bidding war.
The Vikings, Cardinals, us...
Maybe they are just seeing what's out there. When you look at the teams that might love to have Kolb all of them look like they may have a really attractive 1st rounder next spring.
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I think it would be a shocker if we got him for any less than a first.
unfortunately, I agree which is why despite liking him as a prospect, I don't think it would be worth it for us to obtain.
i liked the guy coming out of college and have seen his 4 games in the pros so I guess I'm as qualified to answer these questions as anybody on here (1/2 against Bal 2 years ago, 2 games last year, his half this year against GB).
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What kind of arm does the guy have?
not great, but good enough to make all the throws.
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Does he stay in the pocket? Step into his throws?
yes to both. he is the prototypical pocket QB and he has good mechanics.
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How's his decision making? Can he make reads quickly?
currently, his biggest weakness. in 3 of his games (Bal, NO, GB) he has had relentless pressure and struggled to get through any of his progressions and I'm not sure he was making the proper hot reads on blitzes. against NO he was able to somewhat overcome this by making really good throws in the face of pressure, but I think it was also a function of that pressure not getting to him quite as quickly.
now, he's a young QB. Rodgers had the same flaw initially. Some QBs learn to read and adjust, some don't. I do not know if he will or not and really, noone else does either (though you would think the Philly coaches would have a pulse on it)
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How's his footwork?
as mentioned, good. he has a good 3-step and 5-step drop. he doesn't dance around with his feet either when he has time to throw.
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Accurate?
yes. 64% last season when he actually got to start 2 games, but like all of these, still incomplete until he shows what he can do for a season. but, he at least demonstrated touch on long balls, some zip on the intermediate and doesn't rifle the ball on short throws.
Thanks.
Most of the stuff here tells why he has been hyped.
He sounds like a major upgrade and, as some have mentioned, if we can get him for a 2nd (which you guys know its going to take at the very least), it will free us up with our first next spring.
If the Eagles really are interested in moving him, my gut tells me it will take a second and third. Maybe second and forth. Or, we may do something with Colt (but I suspect the words out and he doesn't have much value right now). With our luck, the Cardinals, Vikings, Raiders, or ??? give up a first and the guy becomes the next Aaron Rodgers.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
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(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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I think this is a lot simpler than you're saying.
We showed big interest in Kolb this past offseason (or was that just the board, I don't remember anymore). Now Vick seems to be grabbing onto the starting spot. Whether it's with the Iggles or not, Vick is going to be a starting quarterback somewhere in the NFL next year. The Eagles have to move someone sometime between now and the beginning of next season.
Again, we showed interest in one or all of these quarterbacks, and the situation over there has only become more interesting in terms of picking someone up.
We are just poking to see what's going on.
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1) after the interception I saw on the face of Jake Delhomme a look I have not seen in a QBs eyes since Charlie frye was decimated by the Steelers and cut the next day
Bull,, Delhomme didn't even flinch..... Charlie wasn't cut, he was traded...
I read that and realized it was you Joe,,, so i pretty much stopped reading right there 
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Wowee. Kolb, huh? At any price, a consideration. Any chance Delhomme might be worse than thought? If this is the franchise guy through the back door, Colt is here. Not sure he is all that we need and a bago' chips. Does open up draft flexibility maybe. And Kolb under multi-year now may be good. Some special teamers, LB, and a second at least.
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I would take Kolb for anything less than a first. He is a good YOUNG QB. He has the tools, and has shown he can play. The Eagles had a dilemma before the season with him and Vick, now that Vick has showed he can produce, Kolb is good trade bait. The guy has value, and I believe they are going to see what kind. IMO he is a starter in this league, and I feel all the negative talk here about him is crap.
I heard this stuff before when John Lynch was available and we needed safety help bad. The know it alls on this board bashed him, then he went to two more pro bowls. Kolb is a good move for this franchise. He and Jake could be a nice duo. If they get him, he would not start for a while, seeing that he doesn't know the offense, so Jake wouldn't be getting stiffed.
If they have the chance to get him and pass for any reason except them wanting a first rounder, they are fools. This team needs solid QB play, and even if they would draft a Luck or Locker next year, that player would still need time to adjust.
Make the move I say, the QB position is hurting us right now, Kolb could help stabilize it.
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But what is cheap? What would you give up?
Considering McNabb was traded for a 2nd this year and either a 3rd or 4th next year, and that Kolb lasted 1 game (yes I know he was injured), we have a ceiling.
If Philly was willing, I'd give up a 2nd - 4th round conditional pick (based on plays and performance) and Delhomme.
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There is no way i would be talking first round pick, heck with the way we started and the remaining schedule -that might be the first overall pick. I'm not even sure i would be talking 2nd round pick either- that is still one of the top 40 players (assuming we are picking top ten).
I'm on board with KOB- Flynn is a heck of a prospect as well, and should come at a cheaper price.
And call me crazy- but Vick is freeagent after this year. I think he could be a long term stop gap the way he is playing right now. IF Philly signs him long term, they would have big money tied up into two QB's. Doesn't make alot of sense.
Again, who is leaking this info to the radio? Is this a planned move to undermine the "starting" QB. It just doesn't make sense and i bet Andy is furious.
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You gotta be fricken kidding me.....we are a total joke... 
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You gotta be fricken kidding me.....we are a total joke...
Then what were we last year?
Statistically, we're better both on offense and defense this year.
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I think getting Kolb would require our 2011 first round pick, plus more. It's a moot point though because Philly isn't going to trade him. They were high enough on him in the off-season to ship off McNabb to a division rival; they aren't giving up on him after 2 quarters and a concussion.
Really, with the concussion and the way Vick has played the last couple weeks, it makes perfect sense to give him the start. Having 2 quality quarterbacks is not a problem. Having none, that's a big problem.
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As of now, we are 0 - 2. I'm not in the mood to give away picks.
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As of now, we are 0 - 2. I'm not in the mood to give away picks.
I agree.....at the rate we are going we might be in the running for Mallett or Luck if we wanted to go in that direction.
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something stinks here...I am not saying kolb is a bad player...
I'll say it, he looked like total & utter crap against Green Bay, (5 of 10 for 24 yards) then he was knocked out of the game, and out of Philly. No thanks. 
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Kolb on the block? According to ESPN's Sal Paolantonio, a reliable scoop on Eagles news for years, the team fielded "numerous calls" from "several teams" inquiring about a potential deal for Kevin Kolb following coach Andy Reid's press conference Tuesday night. Radio station 610-WIP in Philly reported that the Browns were one of those teams, which seems reasonable considering Cleveland GM Tom Heckert actually drafted Kolb when he held the same position with the Eagles. The Cleveland Plain Dealer and the Philadelphia Inquirer went on to emphatically deny the report. Whether or not the phone call was placed Tuesday night, there's no question the Browns would be interested if the Eagles are, in fact, making Kolb available. Heckert and Browns president Mike Holmgren, a close friend of Reid, engaged in Kolb trade talks with the Eagles last March. Just how highly does Heckert regard Kolb's talent? Three years ago, when he was considering an invitation to join the Falcons' front office, Heckert would have given Reid "whatever he wanted" for the opportunity to bring Kolb along with him to Atlanta. "A one (draft pick), a two ... two ones," said Heckert. "No joke. Kolb is legit." Reid's initial comments on the subject Wednesday didn't exactly throw water on the fire. Asked if he could guarantee that Kolb would remain with the Eagles beyond the Oct. 19 trade deadline, Reid responded, "I can't predict anything down that far, nobody in this league can do that, that's ridiculous. The future, we'll just have to see." Queried again later in the day, Reid was singing a different tune: "No, I want Kevin Kolb on this football team." Frankly, I don't believe a word Reid says anymore, not even "hello." He insisted early this past offseason that Donovan McNabb would be his 2010 starting quarterback. Just four days ago, he adamantly maintained that Kolb was sending Michael Vick back to the bench. If Reid truly believes that Vick is "playing out of his mind" as "one of the best quarterbacks in the league right now," then a Kolb trade certainly makes sense closer to the deadline. The Eagles may want to hold onto their highly paid backup for the next few weeks as insurance for a smooth Vick transition, but you can bet their ears will be wide open to trade offers. This regime is one of the most aggressive in the league. Expect to hear a host of Kolb-to-Cleveland rumors leading up to the deadline. http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/column.aspx?sport=NFL&columnid=77&articleid=36298
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"A one (draft pick), a two ... two ones," said Heckert. "No joke. Kolb is legit."
Well thats a bit scary.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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I'm gonna repeat this..I'm rarely wrong about these types of things(including the draft)..the Eagles are not trading Kolb..not right now..he hasn't played a full game yet.
The problem is that Kolb hasn't looked like Aaron Rodgers when he took over,so the Birds are disillusioned right now..but dude has a concussion and Vick is playing..well like he does..but even he has warts and it'll rear it's ugly head soon..
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Philly has given up 12 sacks in 2 games.
From what I have seen, Kolb appears to be a traditional drop back QB. Playing that style of QB behind a horrid OL isn't a recipe for success.
Could be that Reid thinks that Vick is the answer .. or it could be that he feels that he would rather have a mobile guy back there while the OL, hopefully, develops.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Could be that Reid thinks that Vick is the SHORT TERM answer .. and it could be that he feels that he would rather have a mobile guy back there while the OL, and Kolb hopefully, develops.
Fixed...
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As of now, we are 0 - 2. I'm not in the mood to give away picks.
I agree.....at the rate we are going we might be in the running for Mallett or Luck if we wanted to go in that direction.
Exactly.. what has Kolb done in his 4 years for anybody to believe that he is as close to a lock as a franchise QB as you can get? That is basically what you are saying by giving up what will almost certainly be a top 5 pick and could be the #1 overall.. I wouldn't give up a first rounder for him.. I wouldn't give up a second rounder for him since that pick is going to be in the 30s...
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That is basically what you are saying by giving up what will almost certainly be a top 5 pick and could be the #1 overall.. I wouldn't give up a first rounder for him.. I wouldn't give up a second rounder for him since that pick is going to be in the 30s...
My thoughts exactly. Heckert giving away a second, let alone two 1's, is monumentally absurd for someone as unproven as Kolb.
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"A one (draft pick), a two ... two ones," said Heckert. "No joke. Kolb is legit."
Well thats a bit scary.
Good thing Holmgren would step in and in the words of Lee Corso say "Not so fast, my friend" 
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I hope so! 
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The person that said Kolb was more ready than Matt Schaub at the time of his trade to the Texans is very mistaken. before Schaub was traded from the Falcons he had many starts subbing for Mike Vick and was STARTER ready. Kolb , on the other hand, was handed the Philly job on the (merit?)of one start( bad move).
Schaub had two starts (as many as Kolb).
I don't want Kolb, but don't make things up to suit your opinion.
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Could be that Reid thinks that Vick is the SHORT TERM answer .. and it could be that he feels that he would rather have a mobile guy back there while the OL, and Kolb hopefully, develops.
Fixed...
That was the implication.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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"A one (draft pick), a two ... two ones," said Heckert. "No joke. Kolb is legit."
Well thats a bit scary.
Good thing Holmgren would step in and in the words of Lee Corso say "Not so fast, my friend"
Hopefully that was his opinion 3 years ago and not necessarily today... Kolb may become a servicable NFL starter but history tells us that he has a much greater chance of being Scott Mitchell than he does of being Brett Favre....
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As of now, we are 0 - 2. I'm not in the mood to give away picks.
Agreed, I don't want to trade for Kolb, but I do think that the price would start at a first round pick if he were available.
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Reid denied that McNabb was available
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I pretty much expect that kind of response yet the FACT(if this story is true and we contacted the Eagles) my impression that Delhomme folded his tents and was totally ineffective after the INT says that maybe our coaches are concerned as well. I also noticed our team captain often was spotted by cameras STANDING alone on the sideline.
Hey Daman why are we calling about a QB if we already have THREE. Why are we calling if Holmgren likes Wallace and hand picked the draftee....whom does that leave out. Snicker and sneer but we would not have made the call if all was sweet with Jake. trading a QB for a #7 pick is almost as good as cutting him. Frye was shell shocked and my point was Jake was looking to the sidelines for the hook and Mangini left him out to hang himself. What was that about, the QB was limping and about begging to be pulled and the coach does not send out the back up.
But hey we did not call the eagles, Jake is fine , I am not trying to convince you, just floating the possibility that our front office has shown some concern calling about the availability of another QB after only week 2. but believe all is fine Damon and refuse even the possibility it is not.
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I pretty much expect that kind of response yet the FACT(if this story is true and we contacted the Eagles) my impression that Delhomme folded his tents and was totally ineffective after the INT says that maybe our coaches are concerned as well.
So, your saying that INT wrecked his brain but you are forgetting that that was the play he was injured on so according to you, that couldn't have anything to do with it..
Geesh Joe,,
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while i'm open to a kolb trade, i have to ask why the eagles might be willing to do it. vick is a free agent next year (unless reid plans on resigning vick) so is trading kolb an indictment? i don't know. on the other side, heckert was part of the scouting/drafting team that took him in the 2nd so i could have confidence in the move if that's what we did as well. i'm torn. he won't come cheap though, that's for sure. at least a 3rd.
Why you might ask? Perhaps the difference between the ring or illusion of truth and well, the TRUTH. Reid gives McNabb his vote of confidence in January: he was NOT going to be traded: the TRUTH...he is shipped to Washington. So waht do the Mcnabb friends in the clubhouse think? What Is Donavon saying about Reid to his former teammates?
Reid pronounce kolb the starter even after his injury, he says he is the Eagles QB and is behind him. Days later it is Vick: what does Kolb and his friends think now of Andy Reid.
Here is My Theory. Reid was pressured by the front office after the playoff loss to win this year or else yet had given his vote of confidence to mcnabb, whom I think maybe he wanted to keep. was it a Lie that Reid wanted McNabb or were other forces at work influencing the choice to move on.
Reid backs Kolb as he sees how vital the bond of trust between a young QB and his coach is yet when Andy changes his tune in days are others influencing that choice. How does Reid so easily cast aside Kolb whom he gave his assurances just days earlier? Coach has to know this makes him look horrible to the press, the players, and the fans, not to mention his young QB so why Reid do a 180 degree turn? I have to wonder others are telling Coach Reid to go with the hot hand( whom Reid was sure to say and give assurances it was HE and HE only making that decision to go with Vick( which makes me wonder the opposite is true. The Eagles will finish LAST and Reid will be the scapegoat
I think the Eagles have TRASHED( maybe front office) the relationship of head coach and starting QB and Reid is flip flopping so much I wonder if HE is getting flipped. I would vote a big YES.
Before the season i said i thought Reid would be scapegoated if the Kolb handoff from McNabb flopped. Now that the ball has been quickly handed off to Vick, Reid is on an Island. I have seen Vick here in Atlanta many years and he is a great athlete and a mediocre QB that has trouble reading defenses. Wait a few weeks for some film on the guy and Vick will be UNABLE to adjust his game. I think perhaps the front office has put Reid in an untenable situation and Kolb may have to go. When the Eagles tank to 6-10 Reid will follow( to Cleveland perhaps/)
Before the season I had strong reservations about the psyche of Jake whom I think dissolved after the INT vs Tampa. The fact we are even calling the eagles gives me cause to think there is some fire behind this smoke. Wait and see. I think the eagles may have to Move Kolb, but I do NOT think Reid would be for it. he is a fine coach that wants to win yet i think he is down the totem pole as far as the GM who has run out of patience with mcnabb, now kolb and soon Andy Reid.
CAUTION: I thought Quinn would do well in Denver so all my tarot cards sometimes go awry in the reading.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814 |
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As of now, we are 0 - 2. I'm not in the mood to give away picks.
Especially since we are going to be picking so high once more.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,048
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,048 |
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CAUTION: I thought Quinn would do well in Denver so all my tarot cards sometimes go awry in the reading.
And I thought that Quinn would flop badly anywhere he wound up. 
I am certainly not willing to give up on the season after 2 games, nor am I willing to give up on Delhomme after 1 healthy half of 1 football game.
I do think that this may have reinforced that Delhomme is a 35 year old QB ..... and they might not heal as quickly as younger QBs. Also, we drafted McCoy ..... but he's probably destined for long term development/backup duty ..... so if we have the chance to grab a guy who could be a legitimate long term starter, I think the FO has to check the situation out.
If they believe that Kolb is a legitimate franchise guy ... and he could be had to 1 or 2 mid round picks and/or a player .... I think you make that trade and never look back. If you don't believe that, then you ask to see if you could steal a guy with potential on the cheap, and if not, you move on.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,563
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,563 |
It's wierd but one of my biggest fears is that McCoy is forced into playing too soon..
I would hope that if that happens, he doesn't get beat on to badly from the fans.. He certainly didn't seem ready during preseason and if he gets thrown in early, I hope everyone gives him some time...
LOL I remember Favre coming in (not that I'm even close to suggesting McCoy and Favre are similar) But he was picked on horribly.. it wasn't until he figured out things in his head that people stopped doubting him.. Took time for the players to trust him also...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns contacted Eagles about
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