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A year or so ago I made a quick facebook post that read "It occurs to me that political discourse generally divides along one highest water shed.... You believe either truth is basically black and white, it's most important to stand by a basic core of principles and never compromise OR truth in reality is rarely black and white and it's important to adjust to circumstances. The rest of one's particular positions usually fall in line behind this first position." Then a bunch of friends of mine began a lengthly debate which actually just solidified my original posit. I happened across this today which I found very interesting. Maybe we can perform a very unscientific test with anyone who wants to participate.


Why So Many People Can't Make Decisions
By SHIRLEY S. ...

Some people meet, fall in love and get married right away. Others can spend hours in the sock aisle at the department store, weighing the pros and cons of buying a pair of wool argyles instead of cotton striped.

Seeing the world as black and white, in which choices seem clear, or shades of gray can affect people's path in life, from jobs and relationships to which political candidate they vote for, researchers say. People who often have conflicting feelings about situations—the shades-of-gray thinkers—have more of what psychologists call ambivalence, while those who tend toward unequivocal views have less ambivalence.

High ambivalence may be useful in some situations, and low ambivalence in others, researchers say. And although people don't fall neatly into one camp or the other, in general, individuals who tend toward ambivalence do so fairly consistently across different areas of their lives.

For decades psychologists largely ignored ambivalence because they didn't think it was meaningful. The way researchers studied attitudes—by asking participants where they fell on a scale ranging from positive to negative—also made it difficult to tease apart who held conflicting opinions from those who were neutral, according to Mark Zanna, a University of Waterloo professor who studies ambivalence. (Similarly, psychologists long believed it wasn't necessary to examine men and women separately when studying the way people think.)

Different Strokes

PEOPLE WHO SEE THE WORLD AS BLACK AND WHITE TEND TO...

Speak their mind or make quick decisions.
Be more predictable in making decisions (e.g., who they vote for).
Be less anxious about making wrong choices.
Have relationship conflicts that are less drawn out.
Be less likely to consider others' points of view.

PEOPLE WHO SEE THE WORLD IN SHADES OF GRAY TEND TO....

Procrastinate or avoid making decisions if possible.
Feel more regret after making decisions.
Be thoughtful about making the right choice.
Stay longer in unhappy relationships.
Appreciate multiple points of view.

Now, researchers have been investigating how ambivalence, or lack of it, affects people's lives, and how they might be able to make better decisions. Overall, thinking in shades of gray is a sign of maturity, enabling people to see the world as it really is. It's a "coming to grips with the complexity of the world," says Jeff Larsen, a psychology professor who studies ambivalence at Texas Tech University in Lubbock.

In a recent study, college students were asked to write an essay coming down on one side or another of a contentious issue, regarding a new labor law affecting young adults, while other groups of students were allowed to write about both sides of the issue. The students forced to choose a side reported feeling more uncomfortable, even physically sweating more, says Frenk van Harreveld , a social psychologist at the University of Amsterdam who studies how people deal with ambivalence.

Quiz: How Do You See the World?

Psychologists use various tests to tell if a person sees the world as black and white or shades of gray, or somewhere in between. Click to take two such quizzes:


If there isn't an easy answer, ambivalent people, more than black-and-white thinkers, are likely to procrastinate and avoid making a choice, for instance about whether to take a new job, says Dr. Harreveld. But if after careful consideration an individual still can't decide, one's gut reaction may be the way to go. Dr. van Harreveld says in these situations he flips a coin, and if his immediate reaction when the coin lands on heads is negative, then he knows what he should do.

Researchers can't say for sure why some people tend towards greater ambivalence. Certain personality traits play a role—people with a strong need to reach a conclusion in a given situation tend to black-and-white thinking, while ambivalent people tend to be more comfortable with uncertainty. Individuals who are raised in environments where their parents are ambivalent or unstable may grow to experience anxiety and ambivalence in future relationships, according to some developmental psychologists.

Culture may also play a role. In western cultures, simultaneously seeing both good and bad "violates our world view, our need to put things in boxes," says Dr. Larsen. But in eastern philosophies, it may be less problematic because there is a recognition of dualism, that something can be one thing as well as another.

One of the most widely studied aspects of ambivalence is how it affects thinking. Because of their strongly positive or strongly negative views, black-and-white thinkers tend to be quicker at making decisions than highly ambivalent people. But if they get mired in one point of view and can't see others, black-and-white thinking may prompt conflict with others or unhealthy thoughts or behaviors.

People with clinical depression, for instance, often get mired in a negative view of the world. They may interpret a neutral action like a friend not waving to them as meaning that their friend is mad at them, and have trouble thinking about alternative explanations.

Ambivalent people, on the other hand, tend to systematically evaluate all sides of an argument before coming to a decision. They scrutinize carefully the evidence that is presented to them, making lists of pros and cons, and rejecting overly simplified information.

Ambivalent individuals' ability to see all sides of an argument and feel mixed emotions appears to have some benefits. They may be better able to empathize with others' points of view, for one thing. And when people are able to feel mixed emotions, such as hope and sadness, they tend to have healthier coping strategies, such as when a spouse passes away, according to Dr. Larsen. They may also be more creative because the different emotions lead them to consider different ideas that they might otherwise have dismissed.

People waffling over a decision may benefit from paring down the number of details they are weighing and instead selecting one or a few important values to use in basing their decision, says Richard Boyatzis , a professor in organizational behavior, psychology and cognitive science at Case Western Reserve University.

For example, in making a decision about whether to buy a costly piece of new medical equipment, a hospital executive may weigh the expense, expertise needed to operate it and space requirements against its effectiveness. But ultimately, Dr. Boyatzis says, in order to avoid getting mired in a prolonged debate, the executive may decide on a core value—say, how well the equipment works for taking care of patients—that can be used to help make the decision.

In the workplace, employees who are highly ambivalent about their jobs are more erratic in job performance; they may perform particularly well some days and poorly other times, says René Ziegler, a professor of social and organizational psychology at the University of Tübingen in Germany whose study of the subject is scheduled for publication in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology. Positive feedback for a highly ambivalent person, such as a pay raise, will boost their job performance more than for someone who isn't ambivalent about the job, he says.

Every job has good and bad elements. But people who aren't ambivalent about their job perform well if they like their work and poorly if they don't. Dr. Ziegler suggests that black-and-white thinkers tend to focus on key aspects of their job, such as how much they are getting paid or how much they like their boss, and not the total picture in determining whether they are happy at work.

Black-and-white thinkers similarly may recognize that there are positive and negative aspects to a significant relationship. But they generally choose to focus only on some qualities that are particularly important to them.

By contrast, people who are truly ambivalent in a relationship can't put the negative out of their mind. They may worry about being hurt or abandoned even in moments when their partner is doing something nice, says Mario Mikulincer, dean of the New School of Psychology at the Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya in Israel.

Such shades-of-gray people tend to have trouble in relationships. They stay in relationships longer, even abusive ones, and experience more fighting. They are also more likely to get divorced, says Dr. Mikulincer.

Recognizing that a partner has strengths and weaknesses is normal, says Dr. Mikulincer. "A certain degree of ambivalence is a sign of maturity," he says.

Write to Shirley S. ... at shirley....@wsj.com Linkipoo




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Well, according to most of that criteria - I see myself as 50% black/white, and 50% gray. (or would that be 25% black, 25% white, and 50% gray?)

It would be interesting to hear how others view me, although I have an inkling I know what people on here would say. Wouldn't bother me much though.

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I would say your self assessment seems pretty accurate to me. Maybe 60/40 at most


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Personally, I think that people become more black and white on certain specific issues as they get older, because they have a greater volume of experiences in those areas.

People can be uncertain over things that they are unfamiliar with, however the things that they are familiar with become ingrained as part of their character.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't think its as black and white as that

I think you're right about becoming more black and white as you get older because you have experience to draw from. If I see the same scenario play out over and over again, I'll be conditioned to expect that same response to happen in the future as well. The longer we're here on earth the more things we see play out, the more black and white opinions we form.

Take a guy like Jim Brown for example, since it was recently in the news locally. He has a black and white opinion on racism (no pun intended) because of the era he was from and the way things were during his formative years. To this day he still sees things as being the same because of his experiences molding him that way. Doesn't matter if the reality has changed because it has become ingrained in him.

But at the same time, as I've gotten older I've also started to shift my priorities and I definitely can say I care more about the happenings and issues of the world. The more I care, the more I look into things, and the more I look into things the more I see how complex they really are compared to what they look like from a distance. In this regard I've started to look at things much more in shades of gray than before.


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I think people just become more of who they are as they get older. I'm not sure most people change all that much. Some do open up more and force them selves to look deeper into things as they get older but I think they're the vast minority. That, after all, takes active mental effort, and people, especially in this culture, are not particularly inclined to seek out the contrary argument of their own and really try to impartially weigh it's merits. I think the majority of people think they pretty much have a grasp of things once they have even a small percentage of the total info available and feel they can accurately come to a conclusion. It's called smart man's disease: being able to take very little info and quickly assess and answer the problem. Of course the downside of that is that pertinent info might not have been considered before the conclusion is already reached. In fact the name "smart man's disease" is a bit of misnomer. Same with young "grey" thinkers. I don't think most then end up with a super rigid world view as they get older. Most end up just a little better at actually getting off the fence but they remain life long "shoppers" and weighers.

I think it's common that the older people get the more they fall into the same patterns of thinking more deeply. They either believe more deeply in the black and white system and their thinking will naturally seek out evidence to support it and disregard or attack evidence that challenges it. Or they regularly seek out more angles, feeling like they can't reach a conclusion about something unless they really weigh the widest field available. People of course are complex and have varying degrees of black/white vs gray thinking depending on the subject (what Arch was humorously getting at I guess) but I suspect few people vary too widely from one thing to another. Am I wrong?

And of course both systems have their merits and shortcomings. I don't want a Black and White judge on the Supreme Court. I don't want ambivalent gray thinking soldier leading the charge into battle.

But I think true gray thinkers as a group are the minority and shrinking. They're sometimes attacked for being "morally relative", wishy washy or weak. The tendency to seek compromise is seen as weakness when in reality the opposite is probably the truth. I think it's easier in this day and age to dig your heals in, demonize the other side and surround yourself with supporters


.

What I'm getting at the root of is... where have all the intellectual moderates gone? There used to be a lot of us and we used to be able, as a group, to stand up to the polemic extemes of the other parties AND our own party. We used to be able to hold the sane middle ground and work on dynamic solutions with people we didn't always agree with on most topics. Point out when the other side had a good point or maybe even admitted when a long held belief of our own no longer held water under scrutiny. A hand across the isle was always a bit risky but rarely in history has it been riskier than now. The black and white thinkers on both sides carry the bats and chains these days. I think takes a LOT of courage for any politician to remain steadfastly middle ground in this climate and fact is, in the short run, much of the middle is going to continue to get swept out. Yes, sometimes we need the status-quo to get swept out. But anyone who's witnessed the climate devolve in the last 15 years think that things will actually settle down again? There's variables that exist now that have never before.. the internet being the single greatest. The climate is starting to resemble Israel vs The Palestinians. Tit for tat for tit for tat... endlessly pushing the poles out further and stranding the "weak" middle. Of course, we need the middle if we want things to, you know, actually work.

I kind of got to the point a little quicker than I wanted to in this thread. I wanted to chat about the systems of thinking and how people view the world and how it's changed the last few years but there you have it.




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Quote:

For decades psychologists largely ignored ambivalence ...



So they were ambivalent toward it?

I think it depends... If I had to grade myself the way arch did, I'm probably 75% black and white, 25% shades of gray... and here is why, based on their criteria...

Quote:

B&W - Speak their mind or make quick decisions.
Gray - Procrastinate or avoid making decisions if possible.




Depends on the decision.. if it's a "moral" decision then I will make that decision quickly because my mind, for better or worse, is probably already made up... if it's a more practical decision like where to go to eat or what color to paint the bedroom then I will procrastinate and leave the decision up to my wife because in the end, I don't really care.

Quote:

B&W - Be more predictable in making decisions (e.g., who they vote for).
Gray - Feel more regret after making decisions.




My decision making is fairly predictable and I very seldom feel regret unless I get new information. If I buy a car I stop shopping and looking at cars and deals and sales because my decision is done and there is nothing I can do about it..

Quote:

B&W - Be less anxious about making wrong choices.
Gray - Be thoughtful about making the right choice.




Depends on who is affected by my decision. If I'm the only person really affected then there is little anxiety.. if others are affected then I tend to want to worry more about making the right decision for them. Also depends on the permanence of the decision.. if it is something that can be undone if I'm wrong, then no big deal..

Quote:

B&W - Have relationship conflicts that are less drawn out.
Gray - Stay longer in unhappy relationships.




I can get over a fight in about 20 minutes... I hate drawn out fights.... I do tend to think I can fix anything, even bad relationships and I will work harder and longer than I probably should to do it.. but once I make up my mind.. there isn't much going to change it. For example in my first marriage when I was stupid and in my early 20s my exwife threatened to leave constantly, she threatened divorce all the time.. and I would patiently work things out.. this went on for a couple years during which I had never once even used the word "divorce".. then one day I had enough and I said I'm done.. she fought like heck to save it but I was done.. my mind was made up, I had done all that I could do.. it was over and there was no reconsidering on my part.. still don't regret that decision. I worked as hard as I could to save it until I thought it couldn't be saved then like a switch my mind said, it's over.. there wasn't a whole lot of waffling.... should I stay or should I go.. none of that..

Quote:

B&W - Be less likely to consider others' points of view.
Gray - Appreciate multiple points of view.




As I said, some decisions of a "moral" nature I'm going to be pretty inflexible. I can discuss and appreciate others points of view but when it comes to making the decision that I need to make I'm going to make the one that is in line with my values.. those values move like a glacier too.. they can be moved but they aren't going to move based on one discussion or one new pop culture study or one new American Psychological Association article.. But for all other decisions, I think everybody affected by it should have input and I will gladly listen and often just take a backseat and go with the flow... however I have to admit, I hate "group decisions" where nobody will make a decision and if that starts to happen then I will step in (assuming I have the authority to do so) and just make the stupid decision...

That's my $.02 based on their criteria.


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Quote:

Personally, I think that people become more black and white on certain specific issues as they get older, because they have a greater volume of experiences in those areas.




True. As they get older, they get set in their ways and thinking due to the quality and quantity of reinforcement experienced during those events. This leads to personal decisions that result in less cognitive dissonance, and therefore, less mental stress. It's one of those nature and nurture balances that make and remake us over the years.


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Quote:

if it's a more practical decision like where to go to eat or what color to paint the bedroom then I will procrastinate and leave the decision up to my wife because in the end, she doesn't really care what I think.




Fixed it.

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Quote:

Quote:

if it's a more practical decision like where to go to eat or what color to paint the bedroom then I will procrastinate and leave the decision up to my wife because in the end, she doesn't really care what I think.




Fixed it.



Not so fast my friend... The way things work in my house is this.. if we are going to out to dinner my wife wants me to make the decision... but I have to decide to go where she wants to go... See she'll say she doesn't care where we go then I'll start naming places and she'll shoot them down until I get to the one she wants to go to.. then she will reluctantly agree.. then we go there and if its awful, she will blame me for picking the restaurant but if its good, she will credit herself for shooting down my other ideas.. It's a fun little game we play...


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Your wife only restricts that game to restaurants!? Lucky you! I usually have to play that everytime my wife wants to "Lets go out and do something".

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Well no it's not JUST restaurants, but that was the thing we were talking about.. Then there is the... what if its too crowded? what if there is no parking? what if there is a line? what if it rains? what if we are attacked by a flesh eating virus? she will ask those questions all the way out so if something does go wrong she can say.."See, I told you."

And last but certainly not least, we went to the beach a couple weekends ago and about 45 minutes out of town she asks.. "Did you lock the front door?"


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Quote:

And last but certainly not least, we went to the beach a couple weekends ago and about 45 minutes out of town she asks.. "Did you lock the front door?"




Hehe ... I always answer those questions with answers I KNOW she doesn't want to hear ... like, 'No ... I left the door wide open with a sign that says 'women's underwear upstairs, please take'."

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Quote:

Quote:

And last but certainly not least, we went to the beach a couple weekends ago and about 45 minutes out of town she asks.. "Did you lock the front door?"




Hehe ... I always answer those questions with answers I KNOW she doesn't want to hear ... like, 'No ... I left the door wide open with a sign that says 'women's underwear upstairs, please take'."




LOL.. my answer last time was.. "I sure did lock the front door. But I only had enough time for that so I left the iron on."


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100% gray. That shouldn't shock anybody.
Nice read btw.

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That isn't restricted to marriage


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Well, looking at that I am mostly in the Black and White with a few in the Grey.

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