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I know there is various WR talk on the boards so I thought I'd take this a different direction and get some ideas on how you would define a #1 WR.
Do our Browns possess a real #1 or do we just have one by default based on playcalling and position?
How do you define a #1 WR?
Size and speed? We know players like a Randy Moss and Andre Johnson are big, fast WRs. On the flip side, Marvin Harrison wasn't really big and Jerry Rice was never "blazing fast".
Or is it instead route running, hands, smarts and other intangibles that are not directly related to natural God-given physical traits?
So I guess where I'm going with this: Do we have anyone on the roster that could be a #1 WR?
Or is there someone you have an eye on in the upcoming draft (or FA period) next year and why do you think so?
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*In Baker we trust*
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I think that you have to start with 3 outcomes to determine whether or not a guy is a #1 type.
1) He can get off the line, and get open, on damn near every play.
2) He can catch the ball, even when tightly covered, and even when the ball is off target.
3) He can make plays after the catch.
Most #1s are not necessarily the biggest, fastest, and strongest guys on their team. They do have a unique combination of abilities that allow them to do the above 3 things consistently.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He must be a focal point of other teams preperation. He must draw double teams. He must open up other aspects of offense just by stepping on the field.
"The Browns are a club contenders probably don't want to face right now. Their physicality cannot be questioned."
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we had a number 1 but we traded him to the Jets!
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we had a number 1 but we traded him to the Jets!
In your opinion.
A number 1 receiver is a guy you can count on, at all times, to get open, catch the ball, and move the chains/make the big play.
you had a good run Hank.
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No matter how you slice it, dice it or define it, we lack a receiving target that demands the focused attention of a Defense.
We have nobody in a receiving role that is a significant threat on every play.
There is nobody that a defense is going to cheat help over to to help ensure that they are covered, thus giving lighter help elsewhere, or potentially pulling help back away from the LOS in the run game.
Call it a #1 or a #3 or whatever, the name doesn't matter - the impact is what we are lacking.
As for which attributes I feel are most important?
1.) Hands - if you are a WR that can't catch, you're just a DB standing on the wrong side of the ball.
2.) Routes - If you aren't precisely where you need to be when you need to be there, if you and the QB aren't on the same page when it comes to sight adjustments, if you aren't scrambling the way the QB expects when he needs to be bailed out... then you aren't helping the offense and you aren't doing your job.
3.) Smarts - It's better to be lucky than good... and the smart ones can create their own luck. They're savvy enough to know how to use the different techniques to put themselves in the best position to present a good target
After that is Size & Speed... the things that take a good player with 1 thru 3 and turns them into a dangerous freakshow.
Realistically, however, no player is going to have all of the above... but if you start with Hands and then find a guy with at least 2 of the other 4 attriutes, there's a better than average chance that he's going to play a role for you.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
we had a number 1 but we traded him to the Jets!
No.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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we had a number 1 but we traded him to the Jets!
No.
Actually, Braylon was the only one who thought he was,... 
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To me, a number 1 is a guy like Marvin Harrison.
He wasn't the fastest or the biggest. He didn't have the freak abilities like Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson.
But the guy ran beautiful routes. He caught everything that came his way. And he was able to make big plays when the team needed it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Run proper routes, create separation, catch the ball.....make other teams respect him enough that other receivers become more open.
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Quote:
we had a number 1 but we traded him to the Jets!
I always thought Braylon was more like #2 (lots of poop jokes today)
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Man, I knew that Braylon one wasn't going to be allowed to stand.
I looked #1 Wide Receiver up in the dictionary and all there was is a picture of Jerry Rice.
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Some people might get more technical but a #1 WR in my opinion... oops, forgot to answer the question.. no, we do not currently have one and I don't think we have anybody that is going to turn into one... back to my definition..
A #1 WR in the NFL is a guy who makes plays, a guy who, if you try to run your base defense, he tears you apart and even if you double team him he still makes some plays while opening up things for other guys.. It has nothing to do with how fast or tall or strong he is.. it's about whether or not he makes plays..
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Quote:
we had a number 1 but we traded him to the Jets!
And the thread has already taken that BAD turn . . .
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You mean Jerry Rice,..et al,.. 
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You mean Jerry Rice,..et al,..
Oh I don't think it is any coincidence at all that when you think of the great #1 WRs of the last 20 years you also generally think of the great QBs they played with too..
yebat' Putin
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I looked #1 Wide Receiver up in the dictionary and all there was is a picture of Jerry Rice.
Which is why I wear my Jerry Rice jersey around town with pride. It's the only non-Browns NFL jersey I own. When I hear a Joe Montana vs. Steve Young debate in a bar.....I always say Jerry Rice was better.
We don't need a #1 to win a Super Bowl either. I'll take a bunch of #2's and #3's, a great line, a good RB, and a game manager for a QB. Oh ya, and a wicked defense  .
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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for you guys who are jumping my butt about what i said, answer me this...when did MoMass have his big game? its when the other team had to double cover Edwards. You can say what you want about him off the field, but he did what we needed him to do other than catch the ball...but he demanded double coverage every play...guys like MoMass could get open...thats what you want in a number one...a guy who demands double coverage.....of course if he would of caught the ball, and keep his head in the game it would of worked out for him here...but truthfully we had a number one
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Edwards was very good at getting into space and being a deep threat, there is no denying that.
HOWEVER, that single attribute does not make him a number 1. I know you feel very strongly about the guy, for reasons unknown to me *maybe you have that same New York essence* but the guy is way too inconsistent to be a number one.
The only thing he did with any consistency was:
1) Get open deep
2) Drop the Ball
3) Block very well
4) Bitch and moan about how the Browns fans hate him because he went to Michigan.
Braylon is a number 2 receiver in pretty much every definition available. He's till a number 2 as well.
you had a good run Hank.
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Sorry Tubb, it's not personal. The boy might have been the #1 designate, but he was far from anybody's definition of a real #1. Just getting past the fact that he couldn't catch everything is enough for me to D'Q' him.
Besides, if he WAS an actual, real, bonafide #1 in ALL aspects -- especially being a good teammate and organizational representative -- wouldn't we have kept him ?
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on this team though he was a number one! he took the coverages, he got guys open....he has just as good of hands as TO who torched us yesterday.
the guy has proven he is a idiot time and time again, however you cant take away from the fact that when he was on the field the D cheated coverage his way! almost every single time.....
and I thought that is what this thread is about...almost all of the replys say a guy who demands double coverage....then i say we had that guy but traded him and get dog piled like always...one of the reasons i hardly ever post here! one of the main reason's alot of folks dont post here anymore.....you cant discuss football around here anymore without fighting for your life just to give your opinion
#brownsgoodkarma
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on this team though he was a number one! he took the coverages, he got guys open....he has just as good of hands as TO who torched us yesterday.
the guy has proven he is a idiot time and time again, however you cant take away from the fact that when he was on the field the D cheated coverage his way! almost every single time.....
and I thought that is what this thread is about...almost all of the replys say a guy who demands double coverage....then i say we had that guy but traded him and get dog piled like always...one of the reasons i hardly ever post here! one of the main reason's alot of folks dont post here anymore.....you cant discuss football around here anymore without fighting for your life just to give your opinion
No, being a number one is not all about getting double coverages. It is a part.
Braylon has a ton of physical skills and a lot of them are found in number one receivers. However, Braylon does not have good route running, a attribute of a number one receiver. Braylon does not have good hands, an attribute of a number one receiver. Braylon also has a giant ego for no reason other than the fact that he loves himself, a lot. His ego makes him think of himself to be a much better player than he actually is and does not work hard enough on his route running and ability to catch the ball with any consistency.
When Braylon actually caught the ball with consistency, he could make up for that horrible route running with the ability to destroy teams deep. Unfortunately, he never was the guy you could go to for a first down. Thus, for us and every team in the NFL, he was nothing more than a #2 receiver. That doesn't mean that he wasn't a threat down the field, just that he did not have the skills of a number one.
you had a good run Hank.
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There may be two different arguments going on here then.......the team's #1 WR (best option) and being a #1 WR compared to the league. Trust me, he's not the latter.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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You forgot jumping in stride to catch a pass to the chest.
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Well Kevin Johnson , lets see what did Kevin Johnson do? I'd settle for a Kevin Johnson clone.
Braylon Edwards was better than Kevin Johnson. Michael Jackson 1991-94, and much on other rosters, was a text book player that had to be accounted for.
Lets see, apparently the reason Terelle Owens had such a a big day, (according to Mangini's post game conference) was the Browns were double teaming OchoCinco, all day.
** " His momma call him Clay, I'm calling him Clay!" **
You have to have somebody oppisite, somebody who is oppisite the somebody you had oppisite in the first place!
That's why Houshmanzadeh was open in Cincinnati
That's why Alvin Harper was so good oppisite whats his name from the 91 cowboys.
That's why in 94 the Browns had Derrick Alexander, oppisite Michael Jackson who was oppisite Andre Rison, who was oppisite Keenan McCardell, who was only in for the Rb/Wr/Kr, Eric Metcalf.
That's why in 2001 , when you had 4 deuces, ( 4 2nd round picks) Kevin Johnson wasn't always double teamed because they had Northcutt! Quincy Morgan! and Andre Davis! and could have still had JuJuan Dawson.
The Browns don't have a CURRENT wide receiver that is to wide receivers, as the Worst starting offensive lineman on the Browns in the last 3 years is to offensive linemen.
They got nothin. Nothing at wide receiver, except Evan Moore, and Josh Cribbs, neither of which is a wide receiver.
The Browns best wide receiver, Mohamed Massiquoi, Needs like 3 players of his caliber out there to play off of, oppisite wise.
Then you have Chansi Stuckey!
I don't know what you can say about Stuckey? His play says he is not a #1 Wr but he is not like nothing either.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
for you guys who are jumping my butt about what i said, answer me this...when did MoMass have his big game? its when the other team had to double cover Edwards
By NFL standards, BE is not a very good #1 WR for a few reasons but I will give you that he is the closest thing we have had in quite a while.... and I suppose on the rest we agree, go read my post about what I think we need.. we need a #1, it would make MoMass a lot better.. I think he could be a very good #2..
yebat' Putin
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for you guys who are jumping my butt about what i said, answer me this...when did MoMass have his big game? its when the other team had to double cover Edwards.
Why was it only one game????
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You can say what you want about him off the field, but he did what we needed him to do other than catch the ball...but he demanded double coverage every play...guys like MoMass could get open...thats what you want in a number one...a guy who demands double coverage.....
That is one of the desired traits, most definitely IMO.
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of course if he would of caught the ball, and keep his head in the game it would of worked out for him here...but truthfully we had a number one
You derail your own argument when you write that he catch the ball. LOL
ANY receiver, whether it be a #1, a #2, a slot.....job one is catching the ball when it comes to you.
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Usually found on someone else's team. Usually used in a game regularly and extensively throughout the season. Reliable hands. Academic given what we have and the plays we call. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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The Jets just cut Cloney I bet we are at least considering him
Joe Thomas #73
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Justice Potter Stewart said,"I know it when I see it." That works for me. I'm pretty sure he was talking about something else though.
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IMO the easy answer is a WR who is enough of a threat that the other team has to put 2 guys on him. No, we don't have one of those.
Cribbs has at least some of the needed qualities, and is a proven threat with the ball. What skills or technique is he lacking to become a true #1? Can he improve to that level?
Carlton Mitchell may have potential, but needs development time.
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Quote:
IMO the easy answer is a WR who is enough of a threat that the other team has to put 2 guys on him. No, we don't have one of those.
It cracks me up when 95% of the answers in this thread are all close to the above statement, and I say we had one of these but traded it away. I guess as long as your dont mention Edwards you can keep saying the same thing over and over......face it guys he is the closest thing we have had to having a number 1 since 99! If we would of had a QB for all those years, and a coach to bust thru his diva attitude he would still be here and be a every year top 5 WR.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
Quote:
IMO the easy answer is a WR who is enough of a threat that the other team has to put 2 guys on him. No, we don't have one of those.
It cracks me up when 95% of the answers in this thread are all close to the above statement, and I say we had one of these but traded it away. I guess as long as your dont mention Edwards you can keep saying the same thing over and over......face it guys he is the closest thing we have had to having a number 1 since 99! If we would of had a QB for all those years, and a coach to bust thru his diva attitude he would still be here and be a every year top 5 WR.
You are correct that BE is a #1 receiver. No doubt about it. But he was also a cancer and was hindering the development of the team. He also has been arrested twice now, once for DUI, which will undoubtedly result in a suspension. He also has a tendency to drop routine passes.
Perhaps the right coach will help him, but his problems run pretty deep in his psyche. Based on the quotes from his parents, you can see that he has been taught to deflect responsibility for his mistakes. Mangini had enough of a mess to deal with. BE on this team wouldn't have made enough of a difference before he left in FA, which he was going to do. This team plays better because of it, imho, I truly belive that. We have a lot of UDFA making big contributions in part because Mangini doesn't pander to first round picks. In the long run, it was definitely the right move, even if it hurt us in the short.
We'll get ourselves a number one eventually, and it'll be someone with character, if not the same level of talent as BE, it'll be close enough and Momass will flourish as a number 2.
Robo will flourish as a security guard.
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1. should beat just about anyone short of revis 1on1, no questions asked.
2. doesn't drop passes in clutch situations
3. should get open in the red zone, the great ones just find a way.
you can talk size and speed and all that but i'm an on-the-field guy, get the job done, move the chains, know the situations.
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Quote:
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IMO the easy answer is a WR who is enough of a threat that the other team has to put 2 guys on him. No, we don't have one of those.
It cracks me up when 95% of the answers in this thread are all close to the above statement, and I say we had one of these but traded it away. I guess as long as your dont mention Edwards you can keep saying the same thing over and over......face it guys he is the closest thing we have had to having a number 1 since 99! If we would of had a QB for all those years, and a coach to bust thru his diva attitude he would still be here and be a every year top 5 WR.
Closest thing, perhaps...but as I said (and you ignored) you derailed your own argument for Edwards. And you just did it again here. 
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from your earlier post: "then i say we had that guy but traded him and get dog piled like always...one of the reasons i hardly ever post here! one of the main reason's alot of folks dont post here anymore.....you cant discuss football around here anymore without fighting for your life just to give your opinion"
And WTF does Braylon Edwards matter now? He is gone.....and per your own words he wasn't a number one receiver. There is football being discussed but you are contradicting yourself, and I don't see where you are getting "dogpiled"??? Fighting for your life?? C'mon dude..... 
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and a coach to bust thru his diva attitude he would still be here and be a every year top 5 WR.
I don't think you'll ever really see this happen.
Add to that the suspicion that the guy has an alcohol problem that may only get worse and you can see why he's gone.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I agree we made the right decision to get rid of him, but the truth is he did demand double coverage...i would of liked to have waited until we secured another number 1 before we just traded him away.
now look at how pathetic our WR core is....our current number 1 sure is setting the world on fire! I would have been happy to play hit or miss with edwards then have a WR that cant even attempt to make a catch because he cant get open.
and i am discussing football genius, your opinion differs from mine...thats life!
Braylon proved to the world not just the Cleveland fan base that he is a moron, and selfish. I stood up for him here because i liked the skill set that he brought to the table, size, speed, hands(i know), He will obviously be a wasted pick for us but he is doing good things in NY (besides DWI), but we was right in getting rid of him, my only problem with this whole mess is we didnt have a number one waiting in the wings. MoMass I really like the kid, but he isnt a number one, he is a average number 2 and needs to have that legit threat on the other side of the field to take the pressure off of him.
now that the vikings got Moss, we should be knocking down the door to try and get sydney rice. i know he is hurt, but when he comes back he would be a good WR to line up and demand some coverage.
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I think maybe we felt that straightening out the locker room had precedence over a true #1 (if you can really call him that) at the time.
The attitude of the team right now shows to me it was a good move.
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and i am discussing football genius, your opinion differs from mine...thats life!
LMAO
Exactly.....genius. 
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How do you define a #1 WR?
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