Ok Damon, I sent an email to the address your good friend provided...
I have read rumors on the internet that T.J. Ward of the Cleveland Browns will be fined $15,000 for his hit on the bengals wide receiver Shipley. Although I agree that the hit was against the rules, a $15,000 fine is not in line with previous fines levied for the same penalty, to wit: Ndamukong Suh of Detroit grabbing Jake Delhomme’s face mask from behind, twisting his head around, and then grabbing him by the helmet/head and using that body part to spin him into the ground. If I’m not mistaken Suh was fined $7,500 which would be merely half of Ward’s fine.
With the NFL’s valid rules to protect the quarterbacks of the league I am curious as to why our quarterback can be so blatantly and violently manhandled for a mere 15 yard penalty and a $7,500 fine. Hell, if the chips are down just grap a quarterback by the head and use it for a handle to throw him down. It doesn’t cost much.
Suh’s entire play was intentionally flagrant in every aspect of it.
Ward, however, was moving too fast to pull up as the ball fell incomplete and he did turn his head so that he was not leading with his helmet. Yes, he hit helmet to helmet but that contact with that body part was incidental as it’s plain to see on the replay that he was aiming for a shoulder to chest hit to dislodge the ball, but Shipley was slightly bending down just at that point and more brought his helmet into Ward’s hit than Ward brought his hit to Shipley’s helmet.
If T.J. Ward does indeed receive a $15,000 fine vs. Ndamukong Suh’s $7,500 fine I will be highly disappointed in the NFL for that oversight, will not be able to justify it in my own mind and would like to hear a full and complete justification from the NFL in comparing those two plays, and players, and why the fines were so lopsided.
T.J. Ward was playing football; Ndamukong Suh was playing dirty.
Nobody ever listens to me. But at least I was able to send it off like a letter to Santa. Just like my old letters to Santa, I don't know if anyone that matters is going to read it, or if anyone is going to read it, but at least I said my piece.
" Y'know... we can nitpick about this particular play until this time next season, and it won't change what's already happened. I for one am just happy to finally see some Browns players who aren't afraid to haul out the hickory on Sundays. It was demoralizing to see "men" in O&B get beat up and pushed around on the playground year after year.
I don't want TJ Ward to change a thing about his style of play. I know he's not a dirty player, so if he gets flagged every once in awhile, so be it. I want opposing players to have Ward in the back of their heads every time they're on the field... kinda like swimming in the ocean, you know? -it's safe, for the most part, and the odds are astronomical against, but still, you know the shark's out there.
Make an opponent play puss football, and you own him for 60 full minutes.
Ward served notice. Bet they noticed. "
The AFCN has always been the most smashmouth division in the league. Pits and Balto have dominated the NFL for years by having aggressive, physical D's... and that's why they win in Dec and Jan...when it really counts.
Now, we have guys in Baltimore limping around after meeting the inestimable Mr. Hillis and his trusty wingman, Sir Lawrence of Vickers We have seasoned old vets like TO whining about Ward hiting too hard...
...and everybody limping off the field after playing us, whether they win or not.
'Bout friggin' time.
NOW, we have opposing WR's skittish about crossing the middle. Opposing LB's like Ray Lewis are dreading the 4th quarter, when they see the Vickers/Hillis express rolling their way. And opposing linemen have to work their asses off against guys like Rubin, Joe T and Big Baby. QB's have to account for guys like Matt Roth and Marcus Benard, lest they get drilled into the turf.
I love it.
I see this team FINALLY being built to compete in the AFCN, and it's being built with guys like TJ Ward. Here's hoping we continue to load up on hardasses...
" Y'know... we can nitpick about this particular play until this time next season, and it won't change what's already happened. I for one am just happy to finally see some Browns players who aren't afraid to haul out the hickory on Sundays. It was demoralizing to see "men" in O&B get beat up and pushed around on the playground year after year.
I don't want TJ Ward to change a thing about his style of play. I know he's not a dirty player, so if he gets flagged every once in awhile, so be it. I want opposing players to have Ward in the back of their heads every time they're on the field... kinda like swimming in the ocean, you know? -it's safe, for the most part, and the odds are astronomical against, but still, you know the shark's out there.
Make an opponent play puss football, and you own him for 60 full minutes.
Ward served notice. Bet they noticed. "
The AFCN has always been the most smashmouth division in the league. Pits and Balto have dominated the NFL for years by having aggressive, physical D's... and that's why they win in Dec and Jan...when it really counts.
Now, we have guys in Baltimore limping around after meeting the inestimable Mr. Hillis and his trusty wingman, Sir Lawrence of Vickers We have seasoned old vets like TO whining about Ward hiting too hard...
...and everybody limping off the field after playing us, whether they win or not.
'Bout friggin' time.
NOW, we have opposing WR's skittish about crossing the middle. Opposing LB's like Ray Lewis are dreading the 4th quarter, when they see the Vickers/Hillis express rolling their way. And opposing linemen have to work their asses off against guys like Rubin, Joe T and Big Baby. QB's have to account for guys like Matt Roth and Marcus Benard, lest they get drilled into the turf.
I love it.
I see this team FINALLY being built to compete in the AFCN, and it's being built with guys like TJ Ward. Here's hoping we continue to load up on hardasses...
.02
Bout time we clear house and start all over again then, right?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Since I'm off work today but awake, I watched this back again on my DVR. I stepped framed it from the beginning of the play.
At 10:55 the ball is snapped to Palmer - TJ starts backing up into the end zone watching mostly Brown on TO to his right.
At 10:53 Brown is blocking out TO fairly well about the 3 yard line and Shippley is cutting across the middle and with Wright tailing him as Wright was following him when he went into motion.
At 10:52 the ball is released by Palmer and TJ flips his hips and gets into position, moving forward slightly, Wright reaches out with his left hand and either bats the ball away or it's simply dropped, hard to tell exactly at this point and his right hand is at his side, not around Shippley. As the ball hits the ground TJ stops his forward momentum and plants his right foot. TJ is at this point is just bracing for the impact, not moving to hit Shippley.
At 10:51 Shippley's momentum is carrying him into TJ and it's Shippley who lowers his head while TJ is lowering his shoulder and impact occurs.
At 10:50 Shippley's head make contact with the ground.
It wasn't even really a hit as TJ had only 1 second to do something and bracing for the impact is the natural thing to do. He didn't hit a defenseless receiver and had Shippley not lowered his head the impact would have been in his pads.
Penalty - Okay the refs are only human and I too thought that when I saw it. I can live with that one.
Cheap Shot - Hardly and Pereira should be castrated for his remarks.
NFL Fine - The NFL has better equipment than I do to watch this back and to hit him for 15K is way out of line. Especially considering this incident and what we saw Suh do to Delhomme with full intent.
I'd post another series of pics but I'm not sure what good it would do at this point and to do it justice the pics would have to be bigger than is allowed here.
Quote: Ward did come up though w/ his shoulder.. He meant to hit him.. lol. that is obvious and no one (not even him) will deny that..
Good hit though.. Just find ways to hit them hard in a better way..
I totally agree, TJ did come up and through with his shoulder, while he stood his ground. So would you or I or anyone else that is getting run over. He didn't have an opportunity to get out of the way and that leaves only one option, protect yourself.
Ok, so he hit him a second late. What was to do, pull up as he didn't see the ball was dropped. NO. I am glad that this happened cause other teams have and will see this and the WR will think alittle about where he is. I hope he keeps it up as I hate to say this but some of the biggest cheap shot artist, as other teams call them, are the most successful safetys in the NFL. There is such a fine line now in the NFL between great hit and cheap shot that some hits will be cheap shots but TJ still has to deliver the blows and keep moving forward. If he delivers more great hits by far from cheap shots then he will be getting attention from the media and watch the love flow Guys. I for one know this was going to be flagged and was OK with it. TJ please, OH PLEASE, keep bringing the wood as I like seeing the Browns be the hunters and not the hunted. BTW, wish there was a way to take up a collection to help him pay this fine.
Quote: It wasn't even really a hit as TJ had only 1 second to do something
He had less than a second, more like a tenth of a second. It's great to break it down frame by frame, but the hit happened in real time. Watch it that way 10 or twenty times, it's the same result every time: Ward had no time to do anything but slam Shipley and attempt to prevent a TD. That's what he did, that's all he did, the ref threw the flag based on what he saw from behind them. Not saying it's a bad call, he called it like he saw it, and because his helmet made contact with Ward's shoulder, maybe even the correct call, but the fine is B-freakin'-S. The fifteen yards and the first down was the penalty. That's why they're called penalties. This was not a malicious hit by any stretch of the imagination. The League pussed out from political pressure from whinny bitches, and their incessant need to "clean up" the sport. Total B.S., and a completely incompetent move.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
Ward hit him with his shoulder in the head. It's a penalty.
Nothing else matters. Ward has already forgotten it.
You should, too.
I agree in toto, and already have,...but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to think/state that the fine was too high. We also have NO statement from the NFL in regard to their logic,....i.e. did they think the hit was "dirty" and "cheap" -- is that why the fine is $15K ? I am a whole lot more worried about TJ's rep than I am that he won't hit someone this way again because of some fine.
In short, the size of the fine is saying things that are not true. And that's B'effin'S.
Quote: Wow,, how bout that.. he responded to me.. this is what my contact wrote in respone to my request for contact info.
Quote:
Rick,
Unnecessary roughness was correctly called on that hit. Ward made helmet-to-helmet contact with a defenseless receiver, a clear violation of our playing rules.
As for Mike Pereira’s comments, he’s no longer an NFL employee. Those feelings should be shared with FOX.
and then of course he signed it with his name which I don't feel comfortable revealing in an open forum..
If anyone questions that I received this from an official of the NFL, I'd be happy to send it to the private email of Purp or GM or someone else for thier verification....
FYI, this is the same guy that gave me the info on Minority Hiring for the League (rooney rule) that's posted in the info section of this site.
I tried to use the address given and it doesn't work thru my server. Have you, or anyone else, actually used it successfully?
I did prepare a note asking about consistency vis-a-vis Suh & Ward's treatment, which I'll be happy to post if I can send it somewhere.
thanks for the correction about the . ending the address
I sent this note: I agree T.J. Ward's unnecessary roughness hit warranted a fine in the Cincinnati/Cleveland game.
What I would love to know is what kind of thinking went into the fine levied for Ndamukong Suh's multiple infraction actions in the pre-season Detroit/Cleveland game, particularly considering his comments which followed, contrasted and compared to T.J. Ward's.
Appearances clearly indicate the NFL hierarchy doesn't maintain a continuum of rationale, nor a reasonable level of judgement, rather it seems these decisions are playing to the media reaction.
I believe Suh should have been given a significant penalty equated to his bush-league/cheap-shot actions (plural). Since he wasn't, the message to T.J. Ward seems to be 'let's make-up for not handling the earlier Suh incident properly'.
Care to comment on the contrast?
Jim
Seems like many of us have the same concern regarding consistency and equity
Quote: thanks for the correction about the . ending the address
I sent this note: I agree T.J. Ward's unnecessary roughness hit warranted a fine in the Cincinnati/Cleveland game.
What I would love to know is what kind of thinking went into the fine levied for Ndamukong Suh's multiple infraction actions in the pre-season Detroit/Cleveland game, particularly considering his comments which followed, contrasted and compared to T.J. Ward's.
Appearances clearly indicate the NFL hierarchy doesn't maintain a continuum of rationale, nor a reasonable level of judgement, rather it seems these decisions are playing to the media reaction.
I believe Suh should have been given a significant penalty equated to his bush-league/cheap-shot actions (plural). Since he wasn't, the message to T.J. Ward seems to be 'let's make-up for not handling the earlier Suh incident properly'.
Care to comment on the contrast?
Jim
Seems like many of us have the same concern regarding consistency and equity
I also sent a similar note, receiving only the standard "Thank you for your interest" auto-reply.
By Sean McClelland | Saturday, October 9, 2010, 02:41 AM
If the Browns-Bengals rivalry ever regains its luster, we might have Rob Ryan to thank.
The Browns’ defensive coordinator’s picture can be found in the dictionary next to “loose cannon.”
Asked about Sunday’s devastating hit on Bengals receiver Jordan Shipley by rookie safety T.J. Ward at his weekly press conference Friday, Ryan reacted just as you hoped he might.
“I know the kid (Ward) is disappointed they called a penalty on that play,” Ryan said. “We saw it as a bang-bang play. He made a great read. He went to knock the hell out of the guy on third down in the red zone and that’s how we teach. You teach to hit properly. The young man didn’t lead with his head. He’s hitting him the way we teach them.
“Then there’s a big hullabaloo about this penalty. Those guys need to shut up. This is our team. They don’t coach our team. We do.”
Priceless. And let’s pause a moment, shall we, to thank the NFL for mandating that coordinators be made available to the media on a weekly basis.
[color]He just kept going. And, according to witnesses, he even brought notes.
“If they want to worry about a cheap shot, they ought to look at — oh, let me see (glancing at a piece of paper) — first-and-10 on the 35, third quarter, 4:24 left, and watch their guard, Nate Livings."
“Our kid played great the whole game and they want to (complain) about him because he hit a guy in the face. This kid (Livings) hits our guy (Scott Fujita) in the back after he got a sack and forced fumble and a blocked field goal over him. This kid dives and hits (Fujita) in the back of the legs. So you want to talk about cheap, talk about this (expletive). Excuse me, Nate Livings.”
If nothing else, it should make for an interesting rematch in Cincinnati in December, no matter what might be at stake.
Added Ryan, who might still be talking had a Browns staffer not wrapped it up:
“We teach a hard, tough brand of football. People think we’re out to hurt them. We’re out to hit them. We’re not out to hurt or maim anybody. We’re out to hit them and they’re going to get hit. I think we took Cincinnati’s best shot and we won. That’s the facts.”
Quote: Man, this whole board is amazing to me. We have watched years of sorry tackling, non-hitting, no repercussion Browns Defensive players line up and play tag with opponents and WE FINALLY have someone that wants to hit.. and Browns fans are debating hitting. PLEASE...
Those Browns fans who are complaining must not have seen Felix Wright, Dixon and Minnefield play. One time, they knocked out C. Collinsworth, in Cincinnati, stood over him and barked!! Man, please, if that hit would have been laid by T.Polamalu, everyone would have been praising the hit!!! If you look at the pattern that was run, it led the receiver RIGHT TO WARD. Hell, if the receiver catches the ball, most people would have been questioning why he didn't hit him!
Like the players say, this is a collision sport, not a contact sport. And next time, the rest of the Browns should SMACK Carson Palmer for coming into Wards face and saying anything!
THANK YOU!! Finally someone gets it. When a team plays aggressive then penalties happen on occassion. If anyone is going to complain about the hit, then please do not complain if the Browns end up playing like a bunch of pansies. As mentioned, if Polomalu laid that hit on a Brown, too many on here would be gushing over how they wish the Browns had a guy like that. Are some people just never happy?? My gosh, back the Browns or go root for someone else. It's about time the Browns have someone who might just have an intimidation factor. Ugh!!!
(On if he thinks receivers are going to be looking out for T.J. Ward after his hit last week)- “If they’re smart they would. I saw the kid in college and he would fire them up like that every week. It’s unfortunate, I know the kid’s disappointed that they called a penalty on that play because we saw it as a bang bang play the kid drops the ball. He made a great read, he was in double coverage away from the ball, the man went outside and came back inside and went to knock the (heck) out of the guy on third down in the red zone and that’s how we teach. You teach to hit them properly, the young man didn’t lead with his head, he’s hitting him the way we teach him and then there’s a big hullabaloo about this penalty but (heck) those guys need to shut up. This is our team, they don’t coach our team. We do. (Heck) if they want to worry about a cheap shot they ought to look at first and 10 on the 35, third quarter, 4:24 left, make sure you get that down and watch their guard Nate Livings. Our kids played great the whole game. They want to (complain) about him and he hit a guy in the face. This kid hits our guy in the back after he got a sack for a forced fumble, (Scott) Fujita, and a blocked field goal over him. Then this kid dives and hits him in the back of the legs. If you want to talk about cheap, talk about this (guy). Excuse me, Nate Livings. We are the least penalized defense in football. If we aren’t, we are always one of the tops. That’s how we teach. We teach a hard, tough, smart brand of football. We don’t give away yardage. People think we are out to hurt them, we are out to hit them. We are not out to hurt anybody or maim anybody, we are out to hit them and they are going to get hit. To be honest with you, I think we took Cincinnati’s best shot, and we won. That’s the facts.”
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Is anyone able to confirm what Ryan said about their Guard?
The "(expletive)" no. But "expletive" usually means a cuss word, so backside-hole is my guess. That's a dirty/cheap way to hit a guy, in the back of his legs when he's moving forward. Otherwise, the article I posted and the transcript Damon posted is the whole thing (as published, there could have been more that was not published).
On the main site they edited that whole rant out of the video. I'd have loved to hear him lay that down.
I re-watched the play he's talking about. Dude couldn't get a block on Fugita so he did in fact cheap shot/dive into the back of his legs. Upon getting up but still on the ground Fugita immediately turned his head toward Livings like he may have said something to him but the camera panned toward the main action and away from them. Coaches film will show a it better. Ryan made his point.
I love that Ryan stood up for Ward and the rest of his guys. We've been waiting forever for a big hitter on our defense and as soon as we get one the league cries "foul!".
Palmer, TO and any other bengal, including their coaches, who had anything to whine about it are simply crying. Par for them.
*Suh intentionally uses Delhomme's head for a handle to throw him down. meh *Steelers intentionally pile drive the Titan's QB head-first into the ground. meh *The bengals guard intentionally cheap shots Fujita. meh *Ward intentionally turns his head away and leads with his shoulder on a bang-bang hit in the end zone on a possible scoring play and accidentally hits a short guy's face mask and he's labeled a criminal. ??
The Browns are getting physical and tough just when the league was settled-in on them being push-overs. Tough poop. Get used to it. Ryan's comments in his presser just elevated the physical toughness of his guys attitude. Buy it.
I can't tell you, (after TO made the comment, "Hit ME like that"), how much I hope Ward, or any Browns player, gets a perfectly legal, brain jarring, bloody-lip-making shot on him that dislodges the ball and punks his ass totally.
Quote: Is anyone able to confirm what Ryan said about their Guard?
Actually his time is off. The play starts with 4:02 on the game clock and the hit takes place at 3:58.
It was Nate Livings #62, the right G. Fujita beats him and as he starts around him towards Paulmer, Nate topedoes himself into the back of Fujita's legs knoking him down.
That is a "Cheap" shot in my opinion.
Oh well guess we need to let it go. We got the win now let's carry that on over to today.
GO BROWNS!!
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
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