A Tennessee man watched in horror last week as flames consumed his house. Also watching? The local subscription-based fire department. The man had not paid his $75 firefighting fee, so the firemen would not lift a finger or a hose.
Only after the fire spread to his neighbor's field would the firemen even respond to his 911 calls. Once there, they only put out the field fire as his house continued to burn to a crisp. His neighbor had paid his firefighting fee.
"I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong," the hapless homeowner told reporters.
The man offered to pay them the fee right then and there, or however much it took to get them to put out the fire, but was refused. The man lives in a county that has no fire protection. The nearby town offers fire protection to non-residents on a per-contract basis.
"Anybody that's not in the city of South Fulton, it's a service we offer, either they accept it or they don't," the mayor told WPSD.
Later someone went to the fire station and assaulted one of the fire fighters.
What we want is fiscal restraint, not community negligence. There is a huge difference.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Oh .. and evidently, this policy has been around for 20 years ..... so it's hardly a "Tea Party" idea ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
As ThinkProgress reported yesterday, last week South Fulton Fire Department firefighters from Obion, Tennessee, stood by and watched as the Cranick family’s home burned down — which also led to the death of the family’s three dogs and a cat — because their fire-fighting services were available by subscription only, and the family had not paid the $75 fee. Immediately, right-wing writers at the conservative movement’s bulkhead magazine, The National Review, defended the county and argued that firefighting should not be a public service available to all, regardless of ability to pay.
Now, yet another major conservative has joined the defense. On his radio show this afternoon, leading right-wing talker Glenn Beck and his producer Pat Gray openly mocked the Cranick family. After playing a news clip explaining the situation, Gray adopted a southern drawl and began to mock Gene Cranick’s explanation of how the county’s firefighters refused to help his family.
Beck then went on to complain that “those who are just on raw feeling are not going to understand” that the county’s actions in refusing to assist the Cranicks were justified. He explained that America will be having the “argument” about the case of the Cranicks and that it will go “nowhere if you go onto ‘compassion, compassion, compassion, compassion’ or well, ‘they should’ve put it out, what is the fire department for?’” Beck then went on to say that the Cranicks would be “spongeing off their neighbors” if the fire department had helped them put out their fire. The radio host concluded his rant by saying “this is the kind of stuff that’s going to have to happen, we are going to have to have these kinds of things”:
GRAY: (mocking Cranick’s accent) Even tho’ I hadn’t paid mah seventy five dollahs I thought dey’d put it out. [...] I wanted ‘em to put it out, but dey didn’t put it out.
BECK: Here’s the thing. Those that are just on raw feeling are not going to understand. [...]
GRAY: But I thought they was gonna put the fire out anyway, but it burned down. Dat ain’t right! [...] What’s the Fire Department for if you don’t put out the fire?! [...] I thought they’d put out mah fire even if I didn’t pay seventy five dollars.
BECK: This is the sort of argument that Americans are going to have.
GRAY: It is.
BECK: And it goes nowhere if you go onto “compassion, compassion, compassion, compassion” or well, “they should’ve put it out, what is the fire department for?” [...] If you don’t pay the 75 dollars then that hurts the fire department. They can’t use those resources, and you’d be spongeing off your neighbor’s resources. [...] It’s important for America to have this debate. This is the kind of stuff that’s going to have to happen, we are going to have to have these kinds of things.
It appears that Beck believes that events like what transpired in Obion County should teach Americans lessons about personal responsibility. But where does Beck draw the line when it comes to opposing public services for those who have not paid fees? Would he oppose subscription-based police officers refusing to help a rape victim? How about subscription-based military personnel refusing to repel a terrorist attack on a community that hasn’t paid up? One has to wonder just how far Beck is willing to go.
I was a city worker for 3 years. Here was my average workday:
7:00 am show up for work
7:40 am leave the garage and look for something to do
9:30 am after patching a few holes, or sucking a few leaf piles, it was time for coffee break.
9:30 -10:15 am coffee break
10:15 am -11:30 am find a few more holes to patch, drive around aimlessly looking for something to do, go for walks in the woods acting like we were doing something.
11:30 am -12:30 am - Lunch
12:30 am - 3:00 am - more driving around aimlessly looking for little holes in the road to patch, or leaf piles to suck up.
- Except for the winter, this is all we did all year, and I was the lowest paid guy there - my wage? 22.50 an hour. - Oh, and in the winter, when it wasn't snowing, all we did was drive around, no hole patching, no other work, just simply driving around.
- The absolute most unnaccountable, ridiculous, wasteful, stupid job in America. - And the same can be said for almost every government job.
So unnaccountable because nobody's job is at stake for lack of efficiency.
City workers, Police, and Fire, should all be privatized so that things actually get done. - "Mr. City worker, what did you get done today?" "Well, gee, I patched a few holes and nothing else" "Okay, I'll give you 5 bucks for every hole that you patched, if you want more money, do something more productive with your time" "Gee, ok sir" - That's how it needs to go down.
Before any of you start calling me lazy and all that garbage, understand that I was working with a crew of 17 other guys who have all been working at this city for an extensive period of time. - No joke, these guys once got mad at me for sucking too many leaf piles because they figured they would be expected to do the same. - They actually encouraged me to work less.
- Wasteful government job, and responsible taxpayers are the ones who are left cutting the checks.
Get rid of almost all state, and city jobs, and most federal jobs and our tax dollars will be used much more efficiently.
Mind you, the other guys that I worked with were old, fat, and retired from other cities and had this job because they were friends with the service director. - Yeah, see, the service director can hire his fat old friends because there is no real work that needs to be done, and he isn't accountable for anything. - He makes 90,000 a year. - He has a great job - Show up for work 3 days a week in the summer and go golfing the other two.
- In the meantime, taxpayers are paying for retirement for these guys. - Complete bs.
- I'll tell you the best part, I worked their for three years and didn't put a dime into a savings account, yet, I have a 9,000 public employees retirement system check waiting for me. - I'm going to cash it in January and pay off my truck.
Thank you taxpayers for paying me 22.50 an hour for 3 years and also for giving me another 9,000 on the side that I'm going to use to pay off my truck.
The sick thing about all this is, now that there are fewer homeowners, and fewer taxpayers, these pigs are trying to get legislation passed so that they can have automated street cameras to issue speeding tickets, and they are also trying to impose a tax on garbage collection. - Rather than pay themselves less, or force people into retirement, these pigs try to trick honest people into paying more taxes.
As for me, in case you care, I quit the city job on account of boredom and what I foresaw in my future. - I didn't want to end up fat, lazy, and out of shape like almost every other guy there, so I decided to go full time in the private sector working for a mainstream corporation. - Yeah, I get paid less, and I work more, but I'm not bored and I'll live longer because I'm actually doing things and not living off of taxpayers.
Quote: City workers, Police, and Fire, should all be privatized so that things actually get done.
As this story points out - for a price. This guy didn't pay his $75 dollars, so, they let his house burn down. Yet, you want to run the POLICE the same way?
911 Caller: Somebody is trying to break into my house ... please send help .. he has a gun.
911 Operator: Sir, we detect that you haven't paid your subscription to our services. You just have to deal with it yourself, sir.
911 Caller: Please ... help ... he's coming in.
911 Operator: I'm sorry sir, you should have paid the subscription fee.
911 Caller: What about common dignity?! This man is armed and is coming into my home! I'm going to have to defend for myself...
(Struggle ... gunshots)
Unknown Person: (male voice) Sorry, my brother forgot to take his meds. Goodbye...
Neighbors find the person dead in the home and all valuables gone... Too bad he didn't pay his 911 Subscription...
Quote: responsible taxpayers are the ones who are left cutting the checks.
No, all taxpayers are the ones paying for the services. You may sit here and badmouth them. But, they get the job done and EVERYONE gets their services. You have a fire, you call, they come. You need to report a crime? You call, they come. Sewage Leaking? You call, they come and fix it.
Quote: Get rid of almost all state, and city jobs, and most federal jobs and our tax dollars will be used much more efficiently.
No, they won't be "more efficient". Instead you will live in a country that practices Social Darwinism. Where those that have the money to subscribe to a "special" service get help and those that can't afford it, they are left to die.
Quote: taxpayers are paying for retirement for these guys. - Complete bs.
No, not complete 'BS'. These people provide a public service. You need anything, it is just a phone call away. That is how it is with everyone. You privitize it, not everybody gets the service. Those that have it, get it. Those that don't, they are left to die. Social Darwinism all over again...
In cities, property taxes pay your "subscription" to police, fire, EMT, etc... Where these folks lived, they did not pay taxes to the city where the FD was located.
I did some reading up on this story, apprently this "subscription" is not unheardof in rural areas. The FD in question is funded by a local city and it's tax payers. In order to provide service to the surrounding rural areas, a modest $75/Yr. subscription is offered. Take it or leave it. Well, they left it.
Just think, for the price of an extra value meal a month, they could've prevented their home from burning down. Sorry, I support the FD here. They expected something for nothing (sounds like a lot of America these days) and they got exactly what they paid for. They knew what they were getting into and in the end, it didn't work out in their favor.
What's it say to other people who pay the $75 and then this non-payer's house catches fire and they come out and put it out anyway? Why should anyone else bother paying the $75?
It comes down to being a responsible home owner. If I had a house in the country and I had to pay $75 for fire service, you can be sure that I would pony up that $75 in a heartbeat.
As they say, play with fire and you might get burned. And that's what happened.
Seems pretty stupid to gamble with your house over $75. I bet they pay next time and anyone else who thought they could get something for nothing.
So it's kind of like a home owners insurance policy against fire for those outside of the city?
That makes some sense.
And, as heartless as it sounds ... why would anyone pay the tax (or fee) if they knew that the fire department would put out the fire anyway?
I still don't like it ..... but I can understand it anyway.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
What they should have in place is a provision where if someone who's not payed the fee, upon services rendered will pay an hourly rate for those services.
The guy was an idiot for not paying the $75, to just stand there and let someones home burn to the ground his abhorrent.
Yeah, I would have a hell of a time standing there and watching someone's home burn to the ground too.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: So it's kind of like a home owners insurance policy against fire for those outside of the city?
Rather than letting someone's home burn down (which I am totally against), those that don't pay the 75 should be billed for the entire cost of the response call.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: So it's kind of like a home owners insurance policy against fire for those outside of the city?
Rather than letting someone's home burn down (which I am totally against), those that don't pay the 75 should be billed for the entire cost of the response call.
That's a reasonable solution.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Kind of like doctors not helping accident victims at the scene for fear of lawsuits. I understand the economics but the total lack of humanity befuddles me. As for the Tea Party... who cares. But this story is a shame.
Charlie, First, Beck does not speak for the Tea Party, it is a very, very diverse movement. You might need to look up that word, socialist teachings do not allow for much diversity or individualism.
Second, "for Profit" is a concept totally unrelated to this story. A firetruck costs a lot of money, uses a lot of gas, requires a lot of maintenance. The funds to cover these costs do not fall out of a clear blue sky. As the coverage area increases, costs rise. Additional trucks must be purchased, more manpower, more training. SOMEBODY has to pay. No "rich" folks in the area to blame this on. Just a group of average folks who have made a decision that their resources will extend only so far, and no farther.
This is a classic case of someone who contributed nothing to the communal dinner pot yet they still expect to be served a meal.
Charlie, it is people like YOU who have helped lead this man to believe there was no requirement to contribute to the group effort, while still expecting to benefit from other people's hard work.
What exactly does this have to do with the Tea Party movement? Nothing. You can't cite something idiotic Beck says and paint the Tea Party with it. Beck is a political commentator/entertainer. He doesn't speak for the Tea Party as far as I know.
Having said that, it is hard for me to image being a firefighter and watching a house burn to the ground when there was a chance to save it. To allow that to happen for the lack of a $75 dollar payment is absurd. I agree with jfanent. Put the damn fire out and charge the guy for the full cost of the call. Unbelievable.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Quote: What exactly does this have to do with the Tea Party movement? Nothing. You can't cite something idiotic Beck says and paint the Tea Party with it. Beck is a political commentator/entertainer. He doesn't speak for the Tea Party as far as I know.
Having said that, it is hard for me to image being a firefighter and watching a house burn to the ground when there was a chance to save it. To allow that to happen for the lack of a $75 dollar payment is absurd. I agree with jfanent. Put the damn fire out and charge the guy for the full cost of the call. Unbelievable.
I agree with you and Jfan. However, the problem is the guy knew about the $75 payment, didn't/wouldn't pay it. How are you going to get $10,000 from him after the fact? Especially if the firemen couldn't save the house.
Bill his insurance company? I know what they'll say: "Nope, not in the policy."
The fire company would have to put a lien against his property or something.... which may mean that they'd need to get a signature at some point authorizing them to put the fire out - otherwise, they'd be performing and billing for a service that they would have no proof that they were hired for. That would mean that they would have no claim to demand payment.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
One other thing not touched on - this is a town fire department offering to provide, for a fee, protection to non residents.
Now, I know some think that is the way it should be - something for nothing - but there's a good chance this guy hasn't ever paid a cent of tax into the town for protection anyway (unless he worked in the town, or if the town pays for fire service through property tax, etc).
Quote: Editor's Note: This post contributed by Lauren Frayer originally appeared on October 6 on AOLNews.com.
A small rural community in western Tennessee is outraged and the fire chief is nursing a black eye after firefighters stood by and watched a mobile home burn to the ground because the homeowner hadn't paid a $75 municipal fee.
South Fulton city firefighters -- equipped with trucks, hoses and other firefighting equipment -- didn't intervene to save Gene Cranick's doublewide trailer home when it caught fire last week. But they did arrive on the scene to protect the house of a neighbor, who had paid his fire subscription fee.
"I just forgot to pay my $75," Cranick told ABC News. "I did it last year, the year before. ... It slipped my mind."
Later that day, Cranick's son Timothy went to the fire station to complain, and punched the fire chief in the face. "He just cold-cocked him," Police Chief Andy Crocker told the Union City Daily Messenger. The younger Cranick was arrested and charged with felony aggravated assault, and South Fulton Fire Chief David Wilds was treated and released from a hospital, Crocker said.
Firefighters in South Fulton city are under orders to respond only to fire calls within their city limits, as well as to surrounding Obion County, but only to homes there where people have signed up for a fire subscription service.
Because Cranick hadn't paid his fee, firefighters doused the border of his neighbor's property to protect that house in case the flames spread, but wouldn't help him. He lost all his possessions, plus three dogs and a cat.
"They could have been saved if they had put water on it, but they didn't do it," Cranick told MSNBC.The fire began when Cranick's grandson set fire to some trash near the house, and the flames leapt up. Cranick said he told the 911 operator that he'd pay whatever fee was necessary, but it was too late.
"I have no problem with the way any of my people handled the situation. They did what they were supposed to do," South Fulton City Manager Jeff Vowell told the Messenger. "It's a regrettable situation any time something like this happens."
But one firefighting expert said the fee system isn't fair to homeowners or firefighters.
"Professional, career firefighters shouldn't be forced to check a list before running out the door to see which homeowners have paid up," Harold Schatisberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, said in statement excerpted by MSNBC. "They get in their trucks and go." LINK
Wonder if some lawyer will take it and run with animal cruelty that firefighters willingly let 4 animals perish? What if it was people inside?
Can't believe they didn't think out this situation when implementing this system, and have a "contract" form available in case of emergency.
Like SeaTow, it's like $100-200 for the membership. But if you call them without the membership it will cost you 3-4x that to tow your boat, but they will do it.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
A local community here tried to privatize the Fire Department a few years back. But the city was paying the bill with the taxes collected for Fire service as usual. The difference was that Wackenhut would run the departments at a quoted price annually.
It created a huge community backlash when Wackenhut fired all the current fire fighters and bring in their own crews from out of the area.
In the end, like 5-6 months, Wackenhut got released and the community went back to the old system. Not sure what it ended up costing in the long run for that fopaw.
--edit-- found some info on the story
Quote: Slow growth continued and by the mid-1990’s Estero Fire and Rescue employed 11 full-time firefighters, a training officer, a secretary and a new Fire Chief. Although the entire operation still worked out of a single building on US41, the building had expanded from a 2-bay garage to a 5-bay complex, housing two fire engines, a brush truck and a few support vehicles.
But there was trouble brewing in the day-to-day operations of Estero Fire and Rescue. Jimmy Wright, the new Fire Chief, was having relationship issues with the union firefighters. Still, the firefighters were shocked one evening in January, 1997, when they came back from a training exercise and discovered they had all been fired! Chief Wright had convinced the Board to bring in Wackenhut, a private company, to staff Estero Fire and Rescue, on the grounds that it would save the District money.
The incident became front page news in Southwest Florida. Firefighters came from around the state to picket in front of the fire station. Board members were charged with violations of the Sunshine Law, and several resigned. Tragedy struck on Tuesday, July 15th, 1997 when a Wackenhut firefighter was killed fighting a brush fire. Several weeks later, the Fire Chief was arrested for stealing the picket signs of the protesting union firefighters. Estero Fire and Rescue had reached a low point in its 23 year existence.
The old adage says that it is often darkest just before the dawn, and so it was with Estero Fire and Rescue. In August, 1997, the remaining 3 board members, Tim Higgins, Connie Kelley and Josephine Bigelow, voted to dismiss Wackenhut and reinstate the firefighters. Josephine Bigelow resigned from the Board at that time and Dick Schweers was appointed to the Board by Governor Chiles a few days later, just to keep a quorum. In October, Larry Westin and Gayle Sassano were added to fill the Board. The five commissioners had a daunting task. They needed to find a new Fire Chief, deal with a sizeable debt and rebuild a department in shambles. San Carlos Fire Chief Nat Ippolito and Assistant Chief Ray Delo oversaw the day-to-day operations of the District for 6 months, while the Board looked for solutions.
Can't believe they didn't think out this situation when implementing this system, and have a "contract" form available in case of emergency.
Like SeaTow, it's like $100-200 for the membership. But if you call them without the membership it will cost you 3-4x that to tow your boat, but they will do it.
Exactly.
Also, since they decided to let his house burn down. Where do they draw the line? If the next 5 houses didn't pay, would they let them burn down as well? What if half the town didn't pay? Let half the town burn? What about if an entire county didn't pay? Will they let that entire county burn? What if half the state didn't pay? Would they let half the state burn?
That is why this is nothing but an example of Right-Wing Sponsored Social Darwinism.
Quote: We have this now; called income tax and property tax. Try not paying either of them and see if you even have a house left to burn.
Key word there, TAX.
Everyone pays into it and get the benefits. But, the TEA Party wants to do away with Taxes. Instead, they want Subscriptions. Why subscriptions? Because, they want everything to be Privatized.
That is why this is nothing but an example of Right-Wing Sponsored Social Darwinism.
Or maybe it's an example of "Why should I put forth any effort when other people will and I can just benefit while I sit on my duff and enjoy a meager existence for free"?
I'm not saying the "fee" portion is wrong, but they should have had a plan in place for this type of situation. Can't believe they just said "Ok, you pay $75 annually and we provide fire service, if you don't pay we just watch your house burn, we might even bring marshmallows."
In this case, guy claims to have forgotten to pay the fee, but had in years past.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 10/06/1012:40 PM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: Or maybe it's an example of "Why should I put forth any effort when other people will and I can just benefit while I sit on my duff and enjoy a meager existence for free"?
Not at all. You put in, I put in. Everyone puts in and everyone gets the benefits.
Privatizing = Subscriptions
Like a Magazine, if you want "Playboy" you subscribe to it. You get Playboy. You don't subscribe to it, probably because you either don't have the extra cash, you forgot to "renew", or because you just don't want it = you don't get it.
But, I just love how you use the term "meager" meaning lesser.
You and the others are hinting that you believe that there are "lesser" human beings out there that you don't want to "pay" for and that you don't want to "pay your share for" = Social Darwinism. That is, the belief that economic standing = the fittest. That those of the better economic standing should serve their own self-interests and all the others "be damned".
Quote: What if half the town didn't pay? Let half the town burn?
Perhaps you missed it, but the town is covered. By the taxes they pay in. The rural areas are not covered by any fire dept., so the town has said basically "since you don't pay taxes for the town, we will cover you, but you need to pay something each year to make it fair to the town people that DO pay each year."
Can't believe they didn't think out this situation when implementing this system, and have a "contract" form available in case of emergency.
Like SeaTow, it's like $100-200 for the membership. But if you call them without the membership it will cost you 3-4x that to tow your boat, but they will do it.
Exactly.
Also, since they decided to let his house burn down. Where do they draw the line? If the next 5 houses didn't pay, would they let them burn down as well? What if half the town didn't pay? Let half the town burn? What about if an entire county didn't pay? Will they let that entire county burn? What if half the state didn't pay? Would they let half the state burn?
That is why this is nothing but an example of Right-Wing Sponsored Social Darwinism.
Charlie, you have still failed to prove that this was a right wing/tea party sponsored thing. More fruitless efforts to pin everything wrong with the country on the republicans...just like mac I bet you blame the tea party for every sock you ever lost.
What you fail to realize is the fire department is not free. It is paid for by tax payers. If half the state didn't pay taxes, there wouldn't be a fire department in business to put out the fire.
And, like you squires, I still haven't seen any link to the Tea Party, but I guess that fact is lost on charlie cause it doesn't suit his agenda apparently.
One last thing - the Tea Party is not against taxes - it IS against gov't. waste. The Tea Party happens to think tax rates are high enough, or too high. They want accountability in gov't.
I never said my "meager" comment was in relation to this story.
And I never said there was anything wrong or right about the pay service.
Like it or not, you pay, well in your case your parents probably pay, for the Fire and Police service.
This town does not have their own service, so they get it from the next town over, and it has to get payed for somehow. My guess if the few residents thought it would be easier to just pay an annual bill.
If you don't pay your mortgage or your rent, they will take away the privilege to have a roof over your head.
But again, since you are slow at getting this, I don't agree with the concept of just letting it burn, but I have no problem with the $75 fee.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
![[Linked Image from ps3gc.com]](http://www.ps3gc.com/pics/Bigswoll61.png)
I bet you blame the tea party for every sock you ever lost.