|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
This past game was the second game where we committed to the run and the Bengals game was the first game we've won all season.
We could also dissect the running game a bit also..first lemmie say the Browns had never known how to utilize small backs since their return.
They are going to run Hillis into the ground ,they need the change of pace back to run other plays to open things up.
Harrison is and has been a ? mark and there have to be things behind the scenes that have happened,ie the fact that he doesn't know his role..
What about Davis?
Another back that we hardly see..yet is languishing on the bench..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Now, maybe I read this the wrong way. But if you're saying he stripped the roster just to see who the "character" guys who didn't let getting crushed bother them were then that has to be the dumbest coaching move I've ever heard of and should get any coach fired on the spot
Hehe, reminds me of Cameron's 1 year gig in Miami where he labeled it "failing forward"....Miami fans and owner didn't fall for the rhetoric and fired him...we should have done the same but I'll give Mangini some credit over Cameron: at least the term "process" rhetorically is smarter than "failing forward"  Good job at PR Eric
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
I personally think IF Mangini can win 8 games this year, he will keep his job..if not he is gone...that will be a tall order for him.
I do believe the main reason he will be gone though comes from philosphy
Look at the end of last year, I am sure Holmgren probably wanted to get rid of Mangini, however he was in a position where Mangini came thorough late last year, and he didn't want to fire the guy after just one year. Parcells Fired Cam Cameron after a 1-15 season...Mangini had a better record then 1-15 and a streak..Holmgren "had no choice" but to give Mangini another year under those circumstances. You must remember, Holmgren has a reputation of his own to protect as well...he doesn't want to to be made out as an unfair man.
I do think Philosophy will be the reason Mangini will be gone at the end of the year barring an 8 win or more turn around.
Mangini is too conservative, and his play callers are too conservative. Bellichik is conservative also...It doesn't fit Holmgren's style...Holmgren style is attacking, attacking attacking, especially on Offense...going for the jugular at anytime possible...Mangini plays "not to lose" too much, especially late in games and that is NOT Holmgren's vision of successful football.
If Holmgren doesn't take over himself, I would love to have Gruden here. chuckie is an in your face type of coach, guys rally around him.
Gruden had 3 losing seasons in 11 seasons. He turned around Oakland..Gruden NEVER posted a record below 8-8 in his 4 years with Oakland.
He always folled up a subpar season with a winning season the following year in Tampa (You can't win them all) they were NEVER losers in Tampa...they didn;t have a environment of back to back or more losing seasons.
also, Gruden will actually work the Referees ALA Bill Cowher, and he fights for his guys...Gruden may be hard on QB, but the guy knows a good QB when he sees one...he know what he wants out of his QB and is outspoken about it....He turned Rich Gannon's career around pretty good.
Gruden also runs the same O system that Holmgren ran for years, the two guys see eye to eye on everything and Gruden and Haskill are friends so Haskill will most likely be OC its a match made in heaven if Holmgren doesn't take over himself....
So yeah if Mangini wins atleast 8 games, he stays, otherwise he is out I think...holmgren wants a team built in his image (WCO) and that's not happening as long as Mangini is coaching...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
I finally have it figured out why some fans like to fire coaches when teams lose.
They understand so little about the game and even less about the nuts and bolts of what it takes to build a successful organization they always reach for the most convenient target the HC. There’s no shame in being vocal about what you view as being the source of losing, but there is/has to be more to it then just the HC. I mean it’s not like we haven’t been there tried that, and the results speak for themselves! It doesn’t work. Why doesn’t it work? Because the problem isn’t always as easy as fire the HC and were good to go. You would think that after having hired and fired every GM team president and HC we have hired in the past 11 years people would reach that simple conclusion on their own, but here we are 3 HC and 3 FO regimes later and there are actually folks still beating that same old drum again.
Listen I love how folks will say well Mike Holmgren said and he surely thinks. Listen the folks that thought for dead certain that Holmgren would fire Mangini last January for sure don’t know what he thinks, because they don’t function on that level.
You take a look at this team and it says Mangini all over it. The guys that are here are SAT players that idea was adopted by Holmgren and Heckert. It was easy for them to get on board with BTW because it made good sense then just like it does now.
This team this season will not be graded strictly by wins and loses although that most certainly will be a part of it. But just as important will be progress and team play, along with player development, which BTW are key factors for the future of this team.
But those that draw some false line in the sand and say Mangini must reach this number are going off their own simpleton guide lines. And make no mistake Holmgren would have to be simple minded to say you must win this many games or your out, that’s silly, and it doesn’t cover all the things that can happen over the course of the season. But I would remind everyone that has draws a false line in the sand the prognosticators had us winning 4 games I think. But then again the prognosticators base their forecasts on talent level and some of the simpletons base their own predictions on pie in the sky in a perfect world result.
The thing I think most of you miss is Holmgren is all in with Mangini, and although I’m certain he is unhappy with the win lose record at this moment I think he is most likely pretty pleased with the teams performance especially when he unlike most of you clearly understands the talent level of this team.
Take it for what it’s worth but if your putting numbers on wins for Mangini your going to be more then just a bit disappointed. My bet is that if Holmgren had to make a choice of stay or go on Mangini right now today he wouldn’t hesitate for a moment STAY. And that is with a 1-3 record…………….
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
I finally have it figured out why some fans like to fire coaches when teams lose.
They understand so little about the game and even less about the nuts and bolts of what it takes to build a successful organization they always reach for the most convenient target the HC. There’s no shame in being vocal about what you view as being the source of losing, but there is/has to be more to it then just the HC. I mean it’s not like we haven’t been there tried that, and the results speak for themselves! It doesn’t work. Why doesn’t it work? Because the problem isn’t always as easy as fire the HC and were good to go. You would think that after having hired and fired every GM team president and HC we have hired in the past 11 years people would reach that simple conclusion on their own, but here we are 3 HC and 3 FO regimes later and there are actually folks still beating that same old drum again.
I totally understand the nuts and bolts of a football team, I am also smart enough to see when things ar enot working out...asking for a .500 record is not too much to ask for...you have to show real signs of progress...Jerry Glanville said it best:
"The NFL Stands for "Not for Long" either you win or your gone"
its really that simple.
we are 3 HC and 3 FO later because we have hired "the wrong people" 3 times..yes 3 times
you do realize most of the media and people in NFL circles were laughing and thought Randy Lerner was out of his freakin goard giving Mangini a job?!
yes most people thought Mangini career as a HC was done...they couldn't believe Mangini got hired by us...they thought Randy was nuts...
the ONLY reason Mangini stayed last year, and if he is lucky enough to survive this year will be because of money...Randy is still paying RAC and Savage (I thinks its done finally after this year)..he doesn't want to be on the hook for paying more guys who don't work there anymore...
I want a "real" NFL Head Coach...a proven guy..like Gruden...Gruden has been to the big dance, he has turned around terrible organizations...and it didn't take him 5 years to do it either...the Raiders team he inherited was "far far worse" then the team we got...far worse....
We got it "half right" this time...Holmgren and Heckert are great choices..the right choices, but Mangini is not the right choice...the guy should have enver been hired to begin with...a WCO coach like Gruden, Mooch, etc..a guy Holmgren is familiar with his the right choice...
your FO and coach need to share the same vision...thats not so right now...we are still an organization who very much acts like a kid with ADHD..Mangini comes from the Parcells/Bellichik School (Run the ball, play conservative O, reply on D to win) Heckert and Holmgren come from the Reid/Holmgren tree (WCO, pass the ball, get lead and play aggreesive on O)
its just not going to mesh...Mangini is not rhe coach to fullfill Holmgren's vision of what the Browns should be (a WCO football team, very pass happy, aggressive on O just like the Seahawks and Packers)
If Mangini is kept another year, I hope you enjoy losing...
Gruden could step in here next year and win atleast 8 games with this roster...he did it with a Raiders team worse than this one...Gruden is a very very good coach...he wins 1more bowl he gets elevated to elite status...guys rally around Gruden...say what you want about him...he is "exacty" what this team needs...Gruden is our Bill Cowher...plain and simple...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 31
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 31 |
Quote:
I finally have it figured out why some fans like to fire coaches when teams lose.
They understand so little about the game and even less about the nuts and bolts of what it takes to build a successful organization they always reach for the most convenient target the HC. There’s no shame in being vocal about what you view as being the source of losing, but there is/has to be more to it then just the HC. I mean it’s not like we haven’t been there tried that, and the results speak for themselves! It doesn’t work. Why doesn’t it work? Because the problem isn’t always as easy as fire the HC and were good to go. You would think that after having hired and fired every GM team president and HC we have hired in the past 11 years people would reach that simple conclusion on their own, but here we are 3 HC and 3 FO regimes later and there are actually folks still beating that same old drum again.
Listen I love how folks will say well Mike Holmgren said and he surely thinks. Listen the folks that thought for dead certain that Holmgren would fire Mangini last January for sure don’t know what he thinks, because they don’t function on that level.
You take a look at this team and it says Mangini all over it. The guys that are here are SAT players that idea was adopted by Holmgren and Heckert. It was easy for them to get on board with BTW because it made good sense then just like it does now.
This team this season will not be graded strictly by wins and loses although that most certainly will be a part of it. But just as important will be progress and team play, along with player development, which BTW are key factors for the future of this team.
But those that draw some false line in the sand and say Mangini must reach this number are going off their own simpleton guide lines. And make no mistake Holmgren would have to be simple minded to say you must win this many games or your out, that’s silly, and it doesn’t cover all the things that can happen over the course of the season. But I would remind everyone that has draws a false line in the sand the prognosticators had us winning 4 games I think. But then again the prognosticators base their forecasts on talent level and some of the simpletons base their own predictions on pie in the sky in a perfect world result.
The thing I think most of you miss is Holmgren is all in with Mangini, and although I’m certain he is unhappy with the win lose record at this moment I think he is most likely pretty pleased with the teams performance especially when he unlike most of you clearly understands the talent level of this team.
Take it for what it’s worth but if your putting numbers on wins for Mangini your going to be more then just a bit disappointed. My bet is that if Holmgren had to make a choice of stay or go on Mangini right now today he wouldn’t hesitate for a moment STAY. And that is with a 1-3 record…………….
JMHO
This.
The season and Mangini's fate will not be decided on wins and losses alone, it will be decided on a measurement of progress and the level of competition of this team. Do you guys really want to start rebuilding again? Jesus.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Oh one last thing...Here is what Darrelle Revis had to say about Mangini: Quote:
"Everybody had mixed feelings about (Mangini)," Revis said. "As a team, you can't go far (like that). ... We're men, we're not boys. Coach Mangini ran it like a high-school team where he wanted all the control."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...tball%2FJets%29
do you really think players want to play "for that?"..Grown men don't want to be treated that way...no way, no how...
i have said my piece, im done...I don't see this team making the postseason until Mangini is no longer here...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
This.
The season and Mangini's fate will not be decided on wins and losses alone, it will be decided on a measurement of progress and the level of competition of this team. Do you guys really want to start rebuilding again? Jesus.
whats to rebuild? we haven't built anything yet....We haven't draft a QB yet, Mangini trade away the only two guys on this team that were receivers (Winslow and Edwards), he traded away Sanchez for a bunch of bums from NY (Coleman, Mosely, Elam) I sure don't want Mangini around to ruin our 1st rd QB if we draft one...
what exactly has Mangini built? if anything he just tore things apart and replaced them with nothing....Prior to Mangini coming here...this team was 3 players away from being a serious contender, we wouldhave been better off to give RAC one more year to build on what we had (1 season removed from 10 wins) added a few more guys and seen what he could do...if that failed, then move in another direction..
Mangini is the epitome of mistake by the lake...the guy should have never been hired...he is killing this franchise....
what exactly has Mangini built? his 2009 draft has been terrible...that alone set this franchise back 4 years..4 freakin years....He should have been canned on that draft alone...the 2009 Draft was one of the worst drafts in the history of this organization and Jets hosed us hard core on that trade....we got hosed bad...
the dude needs to go plain and simple....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480 |
The problem is, a lot of those "men" don't act like men. They act like boys. Those are the ones that don't like him. Things like Braylon did - steal water, park in someone else's parking spot because it was closer - are not what men do. Hell, it's not what boys (at least mine) would do or there would be serious ramifications. I'm sure if they act like men, Mangini treats them like men.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
I made a post a few weeks ago about, "Why I'm not upset with these first few games" ... or something along those lines. This is exactly why. I realize that this is a building process, and all I care about is progress. I dont' expect us to win playoff games this year (we don't have the personelle to) ... but I want to see the peices getting put in place. As far as I see, we're getting there ... I don't want to blow things up and start from scratch, just because we didn't become an instant Super Bowl winner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
Quote:
Oh one last thing...Here is what Darrelle Revis had to say about Mangini:
You really want to use Revis as example yet you're shocked he's one who didn't like Mangini? Revis is nothing but a grown child like Leon playing a grown man's game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Quote:
I totally understand the nuts and bolts of a football team, I am also smart enough to see when things ar enot working out...asking for a .500 record is not too much to ask for...you have to show real signs of progress...Jerry Glanville said it best:
Therefore your theory that Mangini must win 8 games this season, now I get it. Re-read what I wrote from before, something along the lines of that being simpleton thinking I believe.
Quote:
"The NFL Stands for "Not for Long" either you win or your gone"
its really that simple.
The fog is now clearing please do continue, let’s see just how simple it becomes shall we?
Quote:
we are 3 HC and 3 FO later because we have hired "the wrong people" 3 times..yes 3 times
No actually we never waited long enough to bear the fruits of what the regime we hired to run the team in the 1st place could bring. They would be half way thru the process and ka-friggin boom back we go to square one. But lets do it again it’s been so much fun up till now why change our ways?
I saw this part or read it somewhere doesn’t matter. In 1969 hall of fame HC and multiple super bowl winning HC, Chuck Noll was hired to be the new HC of the Steelers. In his 1st season he was a solid 1-13, in year 2 he was a solid 5-9 and in year 3 he was 6-8 and guess what he still had a job because he was a good coach with bad players. From then on he won multiple SB and is currently in the hall of fame.
Based on your theory and Jerry Glanville Noll should have been deposited in the nearest dumpster. And that sir is just one of the reasons your theory blows.
Quote:
you do realize most of the media and people in NFL circles were laughing and thought Randy Lerner was out of his freakin goard giving Mangini a job?!
#1 you made that up. #2 Even if it where true what the hell does that have to do with my or your opinion of Mangini?
Quote:
yes most people thought Mangini career as a HC was done...they couldn't believe Mangini got hired by us...they thought Randy was nuts...
Dummy it down for me post a link
Quote:
the ONLY reason Mangini stayed last year, and if he is lucky enough to survive this year will be because of money...Randy is still paying RAC and Savage (I thinks its done finally after this year)..he doesn't want to be on the hook for paying more guys who don't work there anymore...
Now you’re making me feel sorry for you dude. It seems that making things up is a habitual problem for you.
Quote:
I want a "real" NFL Head Coach...a proven guy..like Gruden...Gruden has been to the big dance, he has turned around terrible organizations...and it didn't take him 5 years to do it either...the Raiders team he inherited was "far far worse" then the team we got...far worse....
Gruden is a good coach I agree but so is Mangini and this is Mangini’s team not Grudens. I cannot fathom going thru another rebuild as Gruden once again purges the team of Mangini guys and begins the process all over again. You must like pain because short of Mangini staying or passing the torch over to one of his assistants this team would totally implode and any coach no matter how good they were or are would build this team from where they are now into a contender that would even remotely satisfy YOU of all people.
Quote:
We got it "half right" this time...Holmgren and Heckert are great choices..the right choices, but Mangini is not the right choice...the guy should have enver been hired to begin with...a WCO coach like Gruden, Mooch, etc..a guy Holmgren is familiar with his the right choice...
your FO and coach need to share the same vision...thats not so right now...we are still an organization who very much acts like a kid with ADHD..Mangini comes from the Parcells/Bellichik School (Run the ball, play conservative O, reply on D to win) Heckert and Holmgren come from the Reid/Holmgren tree (WCO, pass the ball, get lead and play aggreesive on O)
its just not going to mesh...Mangini is not rhe coach to fullfill Holmgren's vision of what the Browns should be (a WCO football team, very pass happy, aggressive on O just like the Seahawks and Packers)
This isn’t Holmgren’s team this is Mangini’s team #1 and when Holmgren came here he believed from talking to Mangini in his vision and adopted it as his own. I know that idea might be hard for you to get your arms around but that’s the way it is. Just look at this team it screams SAT.
Quote:
If Mangini is kept another year, I hope you enjoy losing...
I can guarantee you based on what I have seen thru 4 games that there is little doubt in my mind that Mangini will be the Browns head coach next season. The team I see on the field is just about dead on what I thought I would see this year, and look out because next year this team begins the process of making their mark. You need to chill a bit too guy this team isn’t a mile away from winning I can see it happening sooner more so then later, patients is reall that all that’s needed, honest.
Quote:
Gruden could step in here next year and win atleast 8 games with this roster...he did it with a Raiders team worse than this one...Gruden is a very very good coach...he wins 1more bowl he gets elevated to elite status...guys rally around Gruden...say what you want about him...he is "exacty" what this team needs...Gruden is our Bill Cowher...plain and simple...
Gruden would fair far worse then Mangini but your point is mute at this point and if I was to make an educated guess well into the future. Might as well face the music bro Mangini is our coach of the future.. I like the sound of that Mangini HC Cleveland Browns, nice isn’t it?
My best advice to you is to put away the rope and enjoy the ride this season and the ones to follow are going to be fun, I intend to enjoy every moment……………
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098 |
OK, Knight... I'll run it down by the numbers forya: 1. Q: "whats to rebuild?" A: a dysfunctional locker room full of individuals with no team identity or sense of direction. [point]: " Mangini trade away the only two guys on this team that were receivers (Winslow and Edwards)" [response]: see my earlier post about instilling culture where none existed... point #2, by the way) 2. Q: what exactly has Mangini built? A: a cohesive team with the same mindset. We now have maulers and brawlers to replace powder puff players, and they're beating up on the likes of Baltimore, sending Cincy players to the turf and the locker room, and commanding respect from players who used to laugh at them. When was the last time that happened? In short, he's built the beginnings of a team identity. Without that, you aren't getting anywhere. [point]: " ....Prior to Mangini coming here...this team was 3 players away from being a serious contender" [response]: Patently untrue. We had holes on the OL, holes on the DL, suspect QB's an aging RB with no quality help and no depth. In '07 we won 10 games, mostly against avaerage/sub-par teams, and got trashed by the elite ones. After that season, our schedule reflected the '07 record, and we were exposed... 5 times on national TV. Humiliated, once again. Have you forgotten how awful we really were? Let's please not engage in revisionist history here. 23 players away, indeed...  [point]: "... his 2009 draft has been terrible...that alone set this franchise back 4 years..4 freakin years....He should have been canned on that draft alone...the 2009 Draft was one of the worst drafts in the history of this organization and Jets hosed us hard core on that trade....we got hosed bad..." [response]: ... and that's why we now have Heckert for our GM and Mangini as coach. Each will do what he's paid to do... and Holmy WILL NOT evaluate Mangini's performance as a coach based on the demands of some other person's job. Furthermore, Mangini will no longer be doing the hiring and firing... because that's Holmy's job now. So... most of what you don't like about Mangini has already been dealt with in the hirings of Holmgren and Heckert. Past history. Old news. What Mangini has done is this, simply put: he's done the hard part of cleaning house. Now there are competent professionals handling all the things you didn't like about him, which allows him to coach... which was what he was brought in to do in the first place. Here's a thought: try watching not just who's playing this year, but HOW they are playing, if you want to see Mangini's imprint upon this team. If you can't see the change in this team's overall confidence, commitment, and attitude, then it's probably because... ...you only have eyes for Gruden. your bias is showing, my friend... and it's losing you cred points with every anti-Mangini post you make.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
Therefore your theory that Mangini must win 8 games this season, now I get it. Re-read what I wrote from before, something along the lines of that being simpleton thinking I believe.
Sure you can think that if you want, but facts are facts...either you win in the NFL or you don't stick around very long.....the days of the 70's and Knoll are long gone...
Quote:
No actually we never waited long enough to bear the fruits of what the regime we hired to run the team in the 1st place could bring. They would be half way thru the process and ka-friggin boom back we go to square one. But lets do it again it’s been so much fun up till now why change our ways?
I saw this part or read it somewhere doesn’t matter. In 1969 hall of fame HC and multiple super bowl winning HC, Chuck Noll was hired to be the new HC of the Steelers. In his 1st season he was a solid 1-13, in year 2 he was a solid 5-9 and in year 3 he was 6-8 and guess what he still had a job because he was a good coach with bad players. From then on he won multiple SB and is currently in the hall of fame.
Based on your theory and Jerry Glanville Noll should have been deposited in the nearest dumpster. And that sir is just one of the reasons your theory blows.
The ONLy coach we had here that had the team rally to win was Butch Davis..yes Butch got more out of less, butch made the playoffs with a team with worse talent then this one (Especially at OL, TE, and CB) yes Butch had us in position to actually win a playoff game...Butch Teams came to play football and lost by 3 points or less countless of times...He is about the only "pure coach" we have had that was any good...Butch the GM sucked, Butch the Head Coach was a good coach.
Quote:
#1 you made that up. #2 Even if it where true what the hell does that have to do with my or your opinion of Mangini?
Dummy it down for me post a link
I don't have to post a link to prove anything to you. The comments about Mangini were made on verified Twitter Accounts back when he was hired, Go search Twitter yourself for the archives and find them if you want I have better things to do. Use #Mangini, and #Lerner and see if the statements are still on there # stand for hash tag..i got better things to do then search for a link for you, go find the twitter statements yourself...thats a very poor argument point.
Also calling me a liar is pretty pathetic considering I am one of the few on here that always backs up his statements...
Quote:
Now you’re making me feel sorry for you dude. It seems that making things up is a habitual problem for you.
Oh yeah i just so make things up(insert sarcasm here)..you are pathetic for using such an argument tactic. News Flash! not everything has a link...these statements were made on Twitter by verified accounts back when he was hired..how long do you think Twitter can really save these hmmm?
Your just another one of those uninformed masses that don't understand the limitations of storage and saving things...you have no idea how much it costs to store information and maintain an archive as big as you are suggesting...why don't you go ask the Web Archive how much it costs them to save stuff, then you get back me....links go up and down everyday on the web..you probably have no real idea how big twitter actually is and how many tweets actually go out per day..and you expect them to save everything that old? let alone keep it public ARE YOU NUTS!
Asking for a link to something that old is dishonest both intellectually and practically and is not even something that can be considered .reasonable.
Quote:
Gruden is a good coach I agree but so is Mangini and this is Mangini’s team not Grudens. I cannot fathom going thru another rebuild as Gruden once again purges the team of Mangini guys and begins the process all over again. You must like pain because short of Mangini staying or passing the torch over to one of his assistants this team would totally implode and any coach no matter how good they were or are would build this team from where they are now into a contender that would even remotely satisfy YOU of all people.
I don't think it takes Gruden nearly as long as you seem to think it would..we haven't buit jack here yet...Gruden was able to win 8 games his first year with a Raiders team worse then this one...say what you want...i watch Mangini fail in NY the guy is not a good coach period......his adjustments are terrible, and he is too darn conservative.
Quote:
This isn’t Holmgren’s team this is Mangini’s team #1 and when Holmgren came here he believed from talking to Mangini in his vision and adopted it as his own. I know that idea might be hard for you to get your arms around but that’s the way it is. Just look at this team it screams SAT.
If you believe that, I got another bill of goods to sell you...The Draft was all Holmgren and Heckert through and Through...Joe Haden is a prototype Philly Eagle corner...he is nothing like Revis...a Mangini corner...Haden is like a younger better version of Sheldon Brown....
Mangini and Ryan wanted Kyle Wilson at that spot...Of Course ryan later said he thinks Haden is better..BS..him and Mangini wanted Wilson and got overuled by Hweckert and Holmgren..
this is very much Holmgren's team like it or not.....
Quote:
I can guarantee you based on what I have seen thru 4 games that there is little doubt in my mind that Mangini will be the Browns head coach next season. The team I see on the field is just about dead on what I thought I would see this year, and look out because next year this team begins the process of making their mark. You need to chill a bit too guy this team isn’t a mile away from winning I can see it happening sooner more so then later, patients is reall that all that’s needed, honest.
We will see...If Mangini is tanking the season..if we 1 and something or whatever..your kidding yourself if tyou don't think Holmgren will step in and do something because he will...thats what hes supposed to do...thats his job...He may not fire Eric outright...but I bet he takes over behind the scenes and dictates to Mangini what he is going to do or else he is out the door....
Quote:
Gruden would fair far worse then Mangini but your point is mute at this point and if I was to make an educated guess well into the future. Might as well face the music bro Mangini is our coach of the future.. I like the sound of that Mangini HC Cleveland Browns, nice isn’t it?
My best advice to you is to put away the rope and enjoy the ride this season and the ones to follow are going to be fun, I intend to enjoy every moment……………
You can drink all the Mangini kool-Aid you want.....this will be Holmgren's team in the end not Erics...and Holmgren knows WCO and its coming, and Mangini won't be the one to implement it.
Quote:
the ONLY reason Mangini stayed last year, and if he is lucky enough to survive this year will be because of money...Randy is still paying RAC and Savage (I thinks its done finally after this year)..he doesn't want to be on the hook for paying more guys who don't work there anymore...
don't believe me?
Here is the Contract Extensions that were signed after 2007 10 win season
Romeo Crennel: Two years, $4 million
Phil Savage: Three years, $3 million
Mel Tucker: Two years, terms undisclosed
Rob Chudzinski: Two years, terms undisclosed
Link
Now do you really just think you sign a contract and not pay the guy? Randy just finished paying those guys off....ALL OF THEM got their money even though they were fired...Even Butch Davis got his money when he quit....it doesn't take an genius to figure out Randy didn't want to be paying for another dead payroll...
As for Mangini....besides the money...the only other reason is there was no one else...that Holmgren liked...and his leg problem/surgery ruled him out for this year...I think Mangini was his only choice considering Gruden resigned with ESPN before Holmgren took over (I do believe, if im wrong on that please correct me)
So i don't think there was anyone else...
However it will take a miracle for Mangini to survive past this yeat unless he starts winning...when the team is 1-8 or 1-9, 1-10, etc and the staduim is NOT filled up on Sundays...no way Holmgren and Lerner sit around and do nothing while losing money...they will bring in another coach to "bring the buzz back" and get people back in the Stands...Gruden or Holmgren himself are those guys...and a 1st rd QB is just icing on the cake...it will esure Randy keeps making money...
Mangini teams so far have left little reason for fans to pay money, and don't you think for one minute blackouts can't happen here because they can...who is going to pay for this garbage? if there not winning, not many...Eric you gotta win to make Randy some money..if you don't Holmgren brings the axe..its simple.
its all about making money in the end Bone...thats the facts...Mangini losing is not making money...push comes to shove..a losing season and blackouts or near blackout conditions at the end of the season can lead the Mangini getting canned...New coach gurantees better ticket sales usually, especially if its someone like Gruden...its is what it is
guaranteeing Mangini will still be here is foolhardy at best...
Look if the guy can pull off 7 or 8 wins..i am fine with it..i will have no problems keeping him..you just gotta prove you can win...so far he hasn't done that....if he can't, we need to bring in someone who can and has (Holmgren or Gruden)
Now im done with this topic...although I still say its 3-2 odds is a good bet Mangini is canned at years end...I just don't see him winning 7 or 8 games..but he may surprise me...never know..even a blind squirrel finds a walnut to eat every once in awhile..nothing is impossible..but its a tall order...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
The problem is, a lot of those "men" don't act like men. They act like boys. Those are the ones that don't like him. Things like Braylon did - steal water, park in someone else's parking spot because it was closer - are not what men do. Hell, it's not what boys (at least mine) would do or there would be serious ramifications. I'm sure if they act like men, Mangini treats them like men.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
I don't have to post a link to prove anything to you.
Quote:
Also calling me a liar is pretty pathetic considering I am one of the few on here that always backs up his statements...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
1st the knoll principles are still in use today in the place where it started and in fact they have won more games then any other NFL team, and more championships then any other team over that time span 40 years and counting. In fact there on coach #3 now and we are on coach #4 in what 11 years, but you think it’s wise to fire another one……. Brilliant. But your right Jerry never won anything Glanville had it right. GMAB. You nailed it with Butch too, and we fired him………….. Your right you about not having to post anything to prove your point to me after all why tell the truth when it’s more fun to make it up as you go……………… Mangini is the guy that played a huge roll in developing the team you see in NY bro. I forget what the record actually was prior to the Favre injury but they were well on there way to the playoffs. They lost like their last 4 games and dropped out of the playoff hunt and Mangini was the fall guy. But no less then half of his staff from that season is still in NY under Ryan. Fact!! Holmgren kept Mangini for one reason only to win. Otherwise I want his ass fired. You see bro he kept Mangini because he believes in him and what it is he is trying to do, not part way, not in win this many games or your fired kind of way but all the way. If not when Mangini should have to go then we need to get a new president too. If Holmgren isn’t all in with Mangini then IMO he is just as much to blame for our failings as Mangini. That is where I think you miss the level of commitment Holmgren has to Mangini by a miles……………….. Look on the salary front Lerner has swallowed contract after contract without so much as blinking he didn’t encourage Holmgren to keep Mangini to save on salaries the idea or argument is ridicules and I would bet my lifes saving that Holmgren would have never agreed to a deal that didn’t give him complete control including firing Mangini. I swear you fire Mangini guys run so shallow and your arguments are so weak I don’t know why I even try to point out where your wrong crazy or stupid. Hopefully I was able to clear some stuff up for ya KOB. My pleasure…………… 
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Again OSguy..taking statements out of context
Twitter is a "social networking/micro blogging site" it is NOT a news service..to expect them to keep archives of statements is just not reasonable...those statements can be deleted from the feed at ANY time....Those accounts can be deleted or changed at anytime
as I stated..he can search Twitter for himself to see if those statements are still there...Twitter is not a news service...its not reasonable to expect things to be static and stay there forever..it is constantly changing service...
again your taking statements out of context..I didn't really think I would have to explain this...I thought people knew that..I guess I was wrong...so i clarified...
The statements were made on twitter by various sports reporters, many of them from the NY market..your free to search Twitter for them yourself...they may or may not be there..hence is the way Twitter works they could have been deleted or removed by now for what anyone knows...it is what it is..
i do usually post links to my statements, but these statements were made on Twitter by various sports writers and others on Twitter..the ever changing nature of Twitter makes it unreasonable to expect those statements to still be there..they can be removed at anytime by the user or the service itself...its not a news site that archives everything...it could take weeks to dig through the site and not find them if they were removed somehow (which is likely many users clear their twitter feeds periodically)
I just want to make something clear:
If Mangini can prove he can win...i will have no qualms keeping him...its just so far he hasn't..winning 7 or 8 games is not asking for much...its just asking for progress thats all I am asking for...If he starts winning some games i'd be fine with it
I'd be fine with back to back 8 win seasons...i just want some semblance of a franchise that is moving forward...another 4, 5, or 6 win season is not progress by any means...us fans can't accept a losing culture just because someone is saying were rebuilding....if "this" is year two in Mangini's so called 5 year "process" were are in trouble big time...big time...
Mangini is the product of a mistake made by Lerner...he hired the coach without a GM..he should have hired his GM first...whoever that may have been...he should have hired a GM and then let his Gm interview and hire the coach
Mangini is a mistake of Randy's process and so far we have paid for it dearly...the look on Mangini's face tells me all Ineed to know..that the dude doesn't havea clue and is in waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy over his head...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
Knight...
I agree with the others saying that it would take a while for Gruden to make this team good...
He runs the Tampa-2...He runs the style of football that involves QB and WRs on offense and the cover 2 defense...we dont have the personnel here to do that. and it would take a long long time...
But with Mangini...look at the style of football were playing right now...Physical, tough, grind out football with some passing sprinkled in...for some reason were doing too much of that. but...we're starting to grind it out and know thats how were going to win.
That seems like adjustment to me, but were playing AFC North football right now. You think the Tampa-2 would succeed here? i dont.
Mangini is the right guy for here. Hes running a system thatll work perfect with a complete roster
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I didn't mean to imply that he was dumb ... looking back, I should probably have reworded that.
Here's an example of what I'm trying to say:
David Veikune.
Mangini put the cart before the horse here ... essentially drafting as if he was at the helm of the New England Patriots. Intelligent, high-motor, overlooked guy ... in my mind, it was a 'look at me' moment for Mangini ... no one could have rightfully thought he would be gone in the third or fourth even ... someone may come along to dispute that with a rumor but the guy was flat out picked way too high. And he was trying to emulate his old boss ... to the point of detriment, because he doesn't have his old boss' team.
We've taken many steps backwards due to Mangini running the Browns as if they were the Patriots.
To be fair, some steps forward, yes. But cart before the horse has been a Mangini M.O. since he got here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
I think that I'd probably tune this team out for a couple of years if we brought in Gruden... maybe take up eyelid stapling as a hobby.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
You said he has to go 8-8, so if he goes 7-9 and we're in every game down to the wire, you're ok with getting rid of him...
Because you have a bias against him, he could win 9 games and you'd come up with a reason to dump him...
And even if that's not true, that's the perception people get from you, which is why you are always defending yourself...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Phil I agree that Mangini has had moments when he is trying to be to smart instead of taking the straight forward approach.
It's like on offense if where running the ball well and chewing up clock and moving the chains there really isn't any reason to go away from that until the other team proves they can be effective stopping you.
I would never want to make anyone think that because I support Mangini I don’t have points that I don’t disagree with, I do! Some things I disagree with I think will sort themselves out and are a product of the team learning the system and the coaches becoming better aware of areas that the players really do well under game conditions or when it counts the most, practice only takes you just so far.
We are getting better and it shows up on Sunday.............
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
You don't need to cite twitter...Michael Lombardi who now writes for nfl.com pretty blatantly called Mangini "a joke around league circles" when he was hired by Lerner....there were also numerous articles back then that Mangini got yanked from defense play calling because of ineptitude by Belly in his last season there, I've posted them all, the homers don't care, they live in LaLa Land...I know that for a fact by now
Little Eric loves to cite his time and experience with his role models, Bill Parcells, Belly etc...yet when he was asked when he talked to them the last time he deflects the question...none wants anything to do with him anymore and you know why? He snitched....that tells you pretty much all about the "MEN" Eric Mangini is himself...for years he knew the Pats were snitching but kept his mouth shut to climb up the professional ladder, as soon as he was HC of Division rivals Jets he snitched...that's as spineless as it gets and the #1 reason this guy is hated and called "a running gag" in this league etc...and you know what? I understand....I don't want my Browns to be coached by such a douche...he's a less talented Butch Davis
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
I find that first sentence humorous, because it could have just as easily been written "Michael Lombardi, who now writes for nfl.com, is a joke in all circles". 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
You don't need to cite twitter...Michael Lombardi who now writes for nfl.com pretty blatantly called Mangini "a joke around league circles" when he was hired by Lerner....there were also numerous articles back then that Mangini got yanked from defense play calling because of ineptitude by Belly in his last season there, I've posted them all, the homers don't care, they live in LaLa Land...I know that for a fact by now
Little Eric loves to cite his time and experience with his role models, Bill Parcells, Belly etc...yet when he was asked when he talked to them the last time he deflects the question...none wants anything to do with him anymore and you know why? He snitched....that tells you pretty much all about the "MEN" Eric Mangini is himself...for years he knew the Pats were snitching but kept his mouth shut to climb up the professional ladder, as soon as he was HC of Division rivals Jets he snitched...that's as spineless as it gets and the #1 reason this guy is hated and called "a running gag" in this league etc...and you know what? I understand....I don't want my Browns to be coached by such a douche...he's a less talented Butch Davis
Agreed, and thank you...so you seen the same statements made on Twitter as well...I thought I was the only one...i knew about Lombardi, but there are others as well
not to mention Joe Posnanski of Sport Illustrated called Eric Mangini "The worst Coaching hire in 25 years"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/09/29/mangini/index.html
now that one didn't come from Twitter, but thank you DJango guess you seen the statements on Twitter too!
there is a reason guys on NFL Network and other sport stations roll their eyes and laugh about Eric Mangini...my Lord folks should hear the things Mike Francheska had to say about him on "Miked Up" i mean goodness gracious!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
So unless we have a coach that everyone likes, we can't win?
Didn't know that was a qualification for being a HC...
Yeah let's hire Gruden, I mean everybody loves him, and I mean he took Tony Dungy's team to the SB, and beat The Raiders because he knew exactly what they were going to do because he coached them THE YEAR BEFORE...
And then we can have 5 mediocre QBs on the roster at one time, and be 9-7, and then 4-12, and then 8-8 and then 5-11, and then 9-7 again...
That's alot better than actually staying the course...
I'm rambling now, you Anti-Mangini guys are incredible... consistant, I'll give you that...
Correct? Noone knows...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
Ammo, great post and thread... On the current Cleveland Browns..........Me, I'm pretty happy with things. We are playing physical football. We do not have top talent in many, many spots. As long as there is progress, we compete, and don't give up there is hope. Win or lose I've been sick for years with Horrible teams that didn't intimidate anyone. I hate to say this, but that horrible, physical, Superbowl winning D in Baltimore.....was OUR defense. THAT was our culture. Tell me it doesn't work. Before it all went away. Now speed up to today, and we are seeing something I haven't seen since the return.............real toughness. A team that is beating people up. Somehow to me this seems different. I'm an optimist, and a Browns homer though. I've never in my life been embarrassed to be a Cleveland Browns fan.........but the last ten years have been tough. Mangini, Heckart, Holmgren are all building something here. Something that might, just might work out. I'm more than willing to have some patience and give them all some time. I'm willing to support the team they put out there. (man I want a Hillis Jersey). Plus the alternative to this positive attitude......well seems like it would suck. Oh yeah, ++++++++++++10 for using the "PROCESS" as a title word....as I'm pretty sure that was Bleeped out last year as a curse word on the board and some folks were banned for using it in a sentence.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
The key, IMHO is not to try to get "top talent" at every position, but rather to get enough star players at premium positions that you can fill in around them with average guys and win.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
The key, IMHO is not to try to get "top talent" at every position, but rather to get enough star players at premium positions that you can fill in around them with average guys and win.
Look no further than Pittsburgh for the glaring example of this.
Polamalu and Harrison. Pull either of those 2 guys out at length and its a different story for their D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
Are we too IMPATIENT?
Everybody here is so certain that Mangini should befired or not? This is what I've seen. Looking at the 2009 draft I think a lot of you forget how thin this team was with no depth and very little to build on. Sanchez... imho, still dont want him. I love Mack and our line is going to be special for many years after next years draft. He did pass on some players in the 2nd and later rounds that I wished we could of gotten but he did fill the roster with better depth and overall talent. He cleaned up the locker room, which was badly needed!!!
Year 2: Looking like an excellent draft so far. Our team competes in every game. We've had the lead in the 4th qtr in every game and in position to win. The talent on the team is much better and we have better depth at every position then a year ago.
In coaching, the general rule is give them 3 years. Are we competeing as an NFL team this year? Yes. Are we gonna win the Superbowl? Probably not. We are competitive and with better talent and depth then we were under Romeo. This team is going to win some games this year. If we get hot like last year maybe we can sneak into the playoffs. If we can beat pitt. we can tighten the divisional race for everyone. Maybe things aren't as bad as they look on paper.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
We got hosed in that 2009 Draft Day trade with the Jets HOSED!
Look when the season started, Mangini couldn't even decide on who he wanted at QB (Because they both sucked)...yet he hands the Jets Sanchez (a bona fide QB)
nope..that 2009 trade was a complete hose job...we got hosed hardcore...if he couldn't decide on a QB, there was enough film to see what he had..I can't believe I am saying this because I am against drafting 1st rd QB, but Mangini should have took Sanchez..I really didn't think Sanchez would be there..I figured the Rams were going to take him...he got gifted wrapped to us and Mangini found a way to hose this franchise...
trades like the 2009 trade is the reason this team is such a diaster...we got hosed plain and simple..we got hosed bad...Sanchez fell to us...we should have taken him....there was enough film for Mangini to know what he had in Anderson and Quinn...don't give me this BS..he obviously couldn't decide on a starter on opening day..he should ahve took Sanchez...the 2009 draft was truly an epic fail....
As for Mack..we could have gotten a Center in the second rd...or via FA or whatever...your not going to find a QB of similar talent in FA.....as i said 2009 draft = epic fail...and Mangini deserves to be canned on that draft trade alone...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Said this before, but I thought we should have taken the Jets to the cleaners. Especially when you don't know IF you've even got a "franchise" with that QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 817
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 817 |
Quote:
So unless we have a coach that everyone likes, we can't win?
Didn't know that was a qualification for being a HC...
Yeah let's hire Gruden, I mean everybody loves him, and I mean he took Tony Dungy's team to the SB, and beat The Raiders because he knew exactly what they were going to do because he coached them THE YEAR BEFORE...
And then we can have 5 mediocre QBs on the roster at one time, and be 9-7, and then 4-12, and then 8-8 and then 5-11, and then 9-7 again...
That's alot better than actually staying the course...
I'm rambling now, you Anti-Mangini guys are incredible... consistant, I'll give you that...
Correct? Noone knows...
Back in the Glory Days, we had a coach who could just barely stand himself. His players didn't really care that much for him as a human being. I had that directly from one who said that he'd rather play for him than anyone but really wished he'd punched him in the mouth when he got the chance. Paul Brown wouldn't last ten minutes with the media today. He wasn't a nice guy and we all know that football is a popularity contest.
I'm just hoping the Browns can take apart Atlanta this weekend. Hopefully they'll do it by wearing them down with physical play and not by issuing a press release.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098 |
you know...
You may be right about the '09 draft. I won't argue about that. The draft is what it was, for better or worse. But let's keep this on point, shall we? Originally, your point was Mangini's incompetence, and that he should be fired as the Browns' Head Coach.
Here's the point others have been trying to make with you:
If Mangini is to be fired by Holmgren, it should happen based solely upon his performance as a Head Coach... and nothing else.
In effect, Mangini has already been fired as GM with the hiring of Tom Heckert, thereby eliminating any possibility of another draft like the one you hate so much. Now... (and here's the most important part, Knight- stay with me now...) Holmgren's criteria for judging Mangini's performance will be a laundry list of coaching duties and benchmarks made or missed as we go forward. How well the team does in this season should be the only determining factor in what Holmy does. It's simply not fair to put Mangini on the hot seat for his past GM performance, since he's only acting as a HC now.
In other words, Mangini can't be tried by the new judge for prior bad acts. He can only be judged in the scope of what he's done since Holmgren took office... and that's as it should be. Holmgren doesn't have the luxury (that you enjoy) of placing one strike on EM's record for stuff that happened before he got here. Fans can gripe and hold grudges all they want, but a professional is held to a higher standard.
If EM loses the locker room, if he loses games on bad coaching decisions, if he screws this team in any way during the '10 season, then yeah- send him packing. But for now, I see no reason to put Gruden (or anybody else) on Holmy's speed dial. Mangini has this team knocking heads with every team we play, the games have been close and competitive, and the team has a swagger and identity that hasn't been seen since The Return.
Besides wins (which will come), wtf more do you want?
This is the point I've tried repeatedly to make to you, and you've routinely ignored my posts. Instead, you've gone on and on about Mangini's '09 bad trades and draft picks to bolster your bias. That angle is a non-starter here, because the team's dynamics and power structure have changed. It's water under the bridge. Get over it.
You want Mangini gone? Pray for him to lose the locker room, make bad coaching choices and lose out the remainder of the season. THEN, you might get what you want. But he'll only be fired based on his performance as coach THIS YEAR. To Holmy, nothing else matters.
Now that I've attempted to get this thread back to "the process," what are your opinions about Mangini's performance AS HEAD COACH this year?
I anxiously await your response.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Said this before, but I thought we should have taken the Jets to the cleaners. Especially when you don't know IF you've even got a "franchise" with that QB.
You can't take a team to the cleaners when the team with the #5 pick wants to trade down just as badly so they don't have to hand such a large contract over to an unproven rookie.
Top 5 picks aren't as valuable as the value chart says. They're more of a hinderance than anything.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,578
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,578 |
Calling Sanchez a franchise QB throws his entire argument out the window. Sanchez is the new Trent Dilfer. He'll be good enough to ride his defense and hand off the ball his top-rated running game. Franchise QB my butt!
Tangent alert: Ammo, love the sigpic
KoB: Do you think Sanchez would've lit it up here in Cleveland? Or would you have wanted to take Spiller with that 5th pick? (yes, I know it was a year earlier).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
Quote:
But for now, I see no reason to put Gruden (or anybody else) on Holmy's speed dial. Mangini has this team knocking heads with every team we play, the games have been close and competitive, and the team has a swagger and identity that hasn't been seen since The Return.
This x1000000! This team has been tons of fun to watch this season and we've led going into the 4th quarter every single game this season yet a good number of fans wants to blow it up again? We're making tons of positive progress and I believe 7-8 games in the W column is very doable this season.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Good post.. The thing with "the process" is this.. do you consider this Mangini's second full year? I honestly do not because of the changes that were made above him and the personnel moves.. I don't really consider it his "first year" but I look at it more like this is the first year of this total regime and I will grade them as a unit based on their roles... so grading Mangini based on personnel decisions of a year ago is irrelevant.. we need to grade him based solely on his coaching now...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
KoB: Do you think Sanchez would've lit it up here in Cleveland?
i'll answer this one. he had worse numbers than our DA/Quinn combo playing with the NFL's #1 rushing attack. i don't think he would have looked better with a retired Jamal Lewis for 1/2 the year.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why "The Process" Will Work if
We're Patient
|
|
