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We are going to have a tandem backfield only its going to be Hillis and Hardesty... Harrison is out. Quote:
If he does leave, I wish him well. The guy got a raw deal (not as much as some would make you think), and he's got the talent to be a good complement to a contending team.
Maybe.. most of the players that have left here that people were sad to see go really never amounted to much, maybe he will be different.
yebat' Putin
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I'd really love for this coaching staff to implement an effective PH/JH combo, and I think that's really doable.
Hillis as Rathman
Harrison as Craig
sounds good to me. of course, we'd need more Rathman than SF did in those days because we don't have Montana (or Taylor or Rice or ...)
#gmstrong
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...and he's got the talent to be a good complement to a contending team.
Hate to see talent walk out the door on a team w/o much talent.
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Legend
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As said above, there has GOT to be more to this story that we do not know about.
Yes, he's been hurt. Thigh injury. Returned to full practice Wednesday. Relax, ladies. 
Ok...so why did Harrison not play much until the end of LAST year. He was INACTIVE 2-3 games before his record-breaking game.
As Harrison himself came out and said: because he was NOT doing the things he needed to be doing to see the field, to make the gameday 45.
When Harrison finally started putting in the work and improving, he got playing time.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
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As said above, there has GOT to be more to this story that we do not know about.
Yes, he's been hurt. Thigh injury. Returned to full practice Wednesday. Relax, ladies.
Ok...so why did Harrison not play much until the end of LAST year. He was INACTIVE 2-3 games before his record-breaking game.
As Harrison himself came out and said: because he was NOT doing the things he needed to be doing to see the field, to make the gameday 45.
When Harrison finally started putting in the work and improving, he got playing time.
Hence my comment "more to the story".
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Legend
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More to which story... this year's?
Hasn't it been determined that he's been injured?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
More to which story... this year's?
Hasn't it been determined that he's been injured?
Why even bother with giving the facts.
They already have Heckert's mind made up on trading away one of only two,..... of our experienced RB's. 
Hillis has been outstanding imo, but no team can afford to be one dimensional, besides Hillis has a running style that lends it self to injury.
We don't have the personnel to warrent trading Harrison and to do so would be negligent in Heckert's duties as GM imo.
And that goes for the rest of you arm chair GM's too.
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i dont think we should be trading him either...
I see thought the possibility of it...Its almost like looking at what New England is doing right now with Moss...They know he isnt coming back and they wanted to get something for him. I think the same goes for Harrison here. Especially with Hardesty primed to come back next year. It may not be the best decision for this year...but it could pay dividends down the road. Am i saying we should trade him? no...but i wouldnt hate it because it could only help us...if we get return for him in a player...its gotta be better than the lack of production we're getting from him now...
however, when he has fresh legs in late november, december, and january...boy will that look amazing.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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however, when he has fresh legs in late november, december, and january...boy will that look amazing.
I think thats what we wait for.. we'll see, then we make a decision. Right now, I like the Jumbo package quite a bit. Vickers and Hillis is a WOW
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Having said that, I still don't want us to trade him.. but if we aren't going to use him, then he has no value on this team except as back up and we can get someone else for that.
So, if they aren't going to play him, might as well get something for him.... that's all I'm saying..
That was my thought process when I made this thread.
Appears I opened up a can of worms.
I would however like to get a good look at James Davis this week. I personally think we would be fine with him at RB but that's just me.
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Quote:
More to which story... this year's?
Hasn't it been determined that he's been injured?
Why limit the discussion to just this year? It's been an issue his whole career. (For some reason or another.)
Let's look at a list shall we:
Can't pickup a blitz
Doesn't work hard enough in practice
Weird injuries
A case of fumble-itis
Two stubborn head coaches
Trade for Hillis
Trade up in draft to get Hardesty
I think that covers it.
It isn't just one thing with him...it must be a combination of things.
I personally think we have misused and underused him since day one. I thought we turned the corner at the end of last year.
I hope it is now just a matter of getting healthy...but history suggests otherwise.
I think the writing was on the wall with the Hardesty pick.
Id like him to get 15 carries a game.
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You talk about Hillis' running style being a cause for injuries. Not a few of the other posters talk about how he cannot stand up to ther number of touches he's getting. That's almost funny because some of these people are the same ones who want to return to the end of 2009 when Harrison was carrying the ball 25 - 30 times per game. But Hillis at 245 cannot handle 20 - 30 carries????
Hillis is a beast! He is a tough, hard runner. But put Harrison and Hillis up beside each other. Which one has the physique to handle the ball for 25+ carries?
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Quote:
Can't pickup a blitz
Doesn't work hard enough in practice
Weird injuries
A case of fumble-itis
I cal BS on those 4....he improved picking up the blitz A LOT, it's adequate for a small RB, doesn't work hard? says who? Weird injuries? wtf? Fumble-itis? Guy has 4 fumbles (3lost) in 300 career touches, that's 1 every 75 carry, sounds "normal" for a RB...ah you're talking preseason too? Harrison had as many as Hillis...oh and look there, talking bout Hillis: he has 3 career fumbles in less than 150 carries...or 1 every 50 touches...so much for that argument
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Harrison looks for the holes and once he hits a wall of defenders he tends to go down but gets right back for the next play to try to find a hole on the next running play.
Hillis is a completely different runner because he throws himself purposely into any sort of contact and turns what would be a 1 yard rush into a 4 yard carry thanks to the momentum he has with his physique. You can only hit so many people and take an unbearable amount of contact before your body really begins to feel it. Look at Earl Campbell of the Houston Oilers. The Oilers ran him into the ground and he is in terrible shape these days.
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I agree with this.
Having someone to take 5-10 carries a game, or an entire game if needed, can only be a good thing. To have a second RB whose running style is so completely different should be an advantage we could exploit.
There does seem to be some reason JH has not gotten touches over so many seasons. His ability to gain yardage is undeniable.
Maybe this week we will see a real 2-back system.
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Lighten up Francis.
I didn't say I endorsed those things...they are just things we have heard. Before you throw out another "wtf", I think you should read my entire post.
I did not like the Hardesty pick - at that time - because I thought it signaled the end for Harrison here...and I believe/believed we could have better used that pick on a position in distress. (Pick your favorite one.)
The underutilization of Harrison has puzzled me from the get go...regardless of the "reasons" we have heard or speculated.
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J/C
While reading, I keep seeing Hardesty mentioned as the guy to take Harrison's place. While I was impressed with his college highlights, and his ONE series in preseason, an injury in '05,'06',07, '08, and now twice in 2010. I see a bust.
I hate saying something like that, and it has nothing to do with my Ghost pimping, I just can't see this guy ever staying healthy. His knees have now had a couple surgeries, he is now damaged goods. His upside was huge, and I liked the pick after seeing the highlight reel. I also gave him the benefit of the doubt concerning his college injuries, but he couldn't make training camp, and couldn't make the season. I hold no hope for the kid, it's a sad feeling.
#gmstrong
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I also would like to add, that after seeing him in that preseason game, if he could stay healthy, I would have no problem letting Harrison go. But until he or Davis prove something, Jerome needs to stay. He has proven over his time here that he can produce, that fact can't be denied.
#gmstrong
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I'm hoping the coaching staff has this in mind and we start to move away from the "feature back" mindset into a dual-back system. I don't think anyone would disagree with a Smash-and-Dash approach with some Vickers sprinkled on top.
Exactly! This is one problem I have with Daboll. We have the people to create some serious matchup problems, and put some packages together to confuse the D, yet we usually just go with the one back set, or Cribbs in the wildcat.
Hillis, Harrison, and Vickers could create some interesting play-action pckages. Sprinkle some Even Moore and Watson in there, and walla, our receivers are open upfield. Hmmm, what a concept! 
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I also would like to add, that after seeing him in that preseason game, if he could stay healthy, I would have no problem letting Harrison go. But until he or Davis prove something, Jerome needs to stay. He has proven over his time here that he can produce, that fact can't be denied.
He sure hasn't produced with any opportunities that he's had this year. Here is Jerome's technique (stutter-step....stutter-step....run into a hole thats already closed for a loss of yards....) the guy has sucked hard this year and I'm so glad Holmgren didn't give the bum a new contract because he's nothing more than a change of pace scat back that has developed a indecisive running style.
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All Pro
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Exactly! This is one problem I have with Daboll. We have the people to create some serious matchup problems, and put some packages together to confuse the D, yet we usually just go with the one back set, or Cribbs in the wildcat.
Hillis, Harrison, and Vickers could create some interesting play-action pckages. Sprinkle some Even Moore and Watson in there, and walla, our receivers are open upfield. Hmmm, what a concept!
I would like to see a two back set also but...
If Daboll does that.
The Browns have to pull a tight end that is holding the right side of the o-line together.
Results in a run for your life QB. Jeff Garcia anyone?
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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Did you even watch the games? Harrison was getting hit in the backfield constantly. The line was atrocious the first couple games. Hillis had his big day when Harrison was hurt. Since then the line is improving and Hillis is producing , while Harrison is healing.
He didn't need to play last week. He was still dinged, and as far as I could see Hillis was doing just fine. Why would any coach pull Hillis when he was on the roll he was on.
Those wanting to trade Harrison at this point are fools. We have depth in our ever improving running game, and as usual the geniuses on here want to trade it for a fourth round "prospect" which is what you get in the fourth round.
I would have loved to see what Harrison would have done on the run Hillis had in the Balt game when he shoved Landry back 7 yards. The hole he went thru was huge, and if he had Harrison's quickness, he just might have went all the way.
Calling Harrison's play "lazy" is just BS. Bringing up his blitz pick ups is a joke. He has proved to improve at blitz pick up and did a nice job in a couple games.
If he wasn't dinged last week, I bet he would have spelled Hillis a few times, but like I said above, what coach would have took Hillis out at any point of that game. He was beating them up. It has nothing to do with what Harrison can do, and everything to do with what Hillis was doing.
Hillis is our starter. I love Harrison, but Hillis earned the job. The trick now is for the coaches to figure out just when to use Harrison. The combination could be lethl. Just when they get used to Hillis running straight ahead, Harrison comes in and gives them some moves. I believe the coaches know this, and eventually we will see it.
All these "dog house" and "frustrated" comments are typical around here. Once one player steps up, it is time to throw the other under the bus. Maybe some of you should try thinking about what having both of them could do for this team.
Keep dogging the Ghost, I'm sure he is used to it by now, but I'm willing to bet that in the end he will again prove the haters wrong.
I agree with this. Why trade our #2 RB ? Don't you need a #2 RB ? Without him we have no depth. Who are you going to replace him with ? A scrub ? And then will you complain loudly when Hillis is worn out and we have no running game ?
Geez people, be glad we have 2 decent RBs for a change....
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Did you even watch the games? Harrison was getting hit in the backfield constantly. The line was atrocious the first couple games. Hillis had his big day when Harrison was hurt. Since then the line is improving and Hillis is producing , while Harrison is healing.
He didn't need to play last week. He was still dinged, and as far as I could see Hillis was doing just fine. Why would any coach pull Hillis when he was on the roll he was on.
Those wanting to trade Harrison at this point are fools. We have depth in our ever improving running game, and as usual the geniuses on here want to trade it for a fourth round "prospect" which is what you get in the fourth round.
I would have loved to see what Harrison would have done on the run Hillis had in the Balt game when he shoved Landry back 7 yards. The hole he went thru was huge, and if he had Harrison's quickness, he just might have went all the way.
Calling Harrison's play "lazy" is just BS. Bringing up his blitz pick ups is a joke. He has proved to improve at blitz pick up and did a nice job in a couple games.
If he wasn't dinged last week, I bet he would have spelled Hillis a few times, but like I said above, what coach would have took Hillis out at any point of that game. He was beating them up. It has nothing to do with what Harrison can do, and everything to do with what Hillis was doing.
Hillis is our starter. I love Harrison, but Hillis earned the job. The trick now is for the coaches to figure out just when to use Harrison. The combination could be lethal. Just when they get used to Hillis running straight ahead, Harrison comes in and gives them some moves. I believe the coaches know this, and eventually we will see it.
All these "dog house" and "frustrated" comments are typical around here. Once one player steps up, it is time to throw the other under the bus. Maybe some of you should try thinking about what having both of them could do for this team.
Keep dogging the Ghost, I'm sure he is used to it by now, but I'm willing to bet that in the end he will again prove the haters wrong.
I agree with this. Why trade our #2 RB ? Don't you need a #2 RB ? Without him we have no depth. Who are you going to replace him with ? A scrub ? And then will you complain loudly when Hillis is worn out and we have no running game ?
Geez people, be glad we have 2 decent RBs for a change....
Jerome Harrison is not a good RB.
I don't know how people are missing this, he's really not good. He has no vision, no power, and no speed.
you had a good run Hank.
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My feeling on Harrison is this:
If someone calls and offers anything for him, it's time to move him.
He does not appear to want to be here ..... and he's not producing when he gets chances. It's time to get something for him and bring up the kid from the practice squad.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Did you even watch the games? Harrison was getting hit in the backfield constantly. The line was atrocious the first couple games. Hillis had his big day when Harrison was hurt. Since then the line is improving and Hillis is producing , while Harrison is healing.
He didn't need to play last week. He was still dinged, and as far as I could see Hillis was doing just fine. Why would any coach pull Hillis when he was on the roll he was on.
Those wanting to trade Harrison at this point are fools. We have depth in our ever improving running game, and as usual the geniuses on here want to trade it for a fourth round "prospect" which is what you get in the fourth round.
I would have loved to see what Harrison would have done on the run Hillis had in the Balt game when he shoved Landry back 7 yards. The hole he went thru was huge, and if he had Harrison's quickness, he just might have went all the way.
Calling Harrison's play "lazy" is just BS. Bringing up his blitz pick ups is a joke. He has proved to improve at blitz pick up and did a nice job in a couple games.
If he wasn't dinged last week, I bet he would have spelled Hillis a few times, but like I said above, what coach would have took Hillis out at any point of that game. He was beating them up. It has nothing to do with what Harrison can do, and everything to do with what Hillis was doing.
Hillis is our starter. I love Harrison, but Hillis earned the job. The trick now is for the coaches to figure out just when to use Harrison. The combination could be lethal. Just when they get used to Hillis running straight ahead, Harrison comes in and gives them some moves. I believe the coaches know this, and eventually we will see it.
All these "dog house" and "frustrated" comments are typical around here. Once one player steps up, it is time to throw the other under the bus. Maybe some of you should try thinking about what having both of them could do for this team.
Keep dogging the Ghost, I'm sure he is used to it by now, but I'm willing to bet that in the end he will again prove the haters wrong.
I agree with this. Why trade our #2 RB ? Don't you need a #2 RB ? Without him we have no depth. Who are you going to replace him with ? A scrub ? And then will you complain loudly when Hillis is worn out and we have no running game ?
Geez people, be glad we have 2 decent RBs for a change....
I'm sure just about any scrub RB can give us more production than what Harrison has given us so far this year, 1 yard per carry is not what the guy that was supposed to be our starter this season should be averaging. Jim Brown could come out of retirement cane and all and probably give us more than 1 yard per carry.
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Deal him to Green Bay, maybe we can get a toaster strudel for him.
#GMSTRONG
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I still say this year we had 2 choices:
1. Draft C. J Spiller at #7 and we got our Thunder and Lightening combo. Spiller is lightening, Hillis is the hammer....
or
2. Draft Haden like we did, and made the deal for Marshawn Lynch...then we have Hillis and Lynch...which is close to #1 and totally doable
All the backs on this roster are unproven, until one of then sniffs the 1,200 yard mark...they ar enot prven featured NFL RB..you only have to avg 69 yards a game to get 1,000 that = mediocre...1,200 is the measuring stick...we don't have a back on this roster that will sniff that....
I like Hillis, the guy is a piece..he is not the problem, he is part of the solution...but the guy isn't a feature back...he lacks the game breaking speed which is what you need in a back in this league, but he is a good piece to the overall puzzle.
Spiller/Lynch get 20-25 carries a game, Hillis gets atleast 10 and some balls thrown his way, keep your Qb under 25 throws...
As a betting man, I would roll the dice on a 1st rd RB before a QB..we haven't tried since William Green...we need to try again....Holmgren took Alexander in the 1st and it worked out OK....we need o draft a Rb high....draft a feature back
Ask Bradshaw and Aikmen how many games they won without Stallworth and Emmit Smith...
Harrison was overhyped, the guy isn't a feature back...he is a below avg RB..thats what he is..
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If a Toaster Strudel is half as good as a Ham Sandwich ... lets pull that deal off tonight.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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I still say this year we had 2 choices:
1. Draft C. J Spiller at #7 and we got our Thunder and Lightening combo. Spiller is lightening, Hillis is the hammer....
or
2. Draft Haden like we did, and made the deal for Marshawn Lynch...then we have Hillis and Lynch...which is close to #1 and totally doable
All the backs on this roster are unproven, until one of then sniffs the 1,200 yard mark...they ar enot prven featured NFL RB..you only have to avg 69 yards a game to get 1,000 that = mediocre...1,200 is the measuring stick...we don't have a back on this roster that will sniff that....
I like Hillis, the guy is a piece..he is not the problem, he is part of the solution...but the guy isn't a feature back...he lacks the game breaking speed which is what you need in a back in this league, but he is a good piece to the overall puzzle.
Spiller/Lynch get 20-25 carries a game, Hillis gets atleast 10 and some balls thrown his way, keep your Qb under 25 throws...
As a betting man, I would roll the dice on a 1st rd RB before a QB..we haven't tried since William Green...we need to try again....Holmgren took Alexander in the 1st and it worked out OK....we need o draft a Rb high....draft a feature back
Ask Bradshaw and Aikmen how many games they won without Stallworth and Emmit Smith...
Harrison was overhyped, the guy isn't a feature back...he is a below avg RB..thats what he is..
It's easy to say all of that NOW after we find out what we have in Hillis, I was high on him when we got him, but no way did I think he'd be doing this well...
But to say that we draft Spiller to team him with Hillis is completely false, because at the draft time Harrison was our #1.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Still wish we had taken LeSean McCoy in the Massaquoi/Robiskie/Veikune second round ... man, that round set us back.
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Players in this league DO NOT like him..no high profile FA will come here as long as he is HC
In fact Laverneus Coles "refused" to talk to us or return Phone Calls of interest last year when we called about signing him (he later went to Cincy) Yes Coles Snubbed us because of Mangini
Most players in this league do not like him....Fujita only came here because no one else made him an offer, and Saints were not knocking down his door to keep him.
no high profile FA will come here as long as Mangini is coach....the fact the Coles snubbed us because of him just pounds this point even further, and now that TO comes out and states no one likes him, is huge.
Think "whatever you want" About Owens, I don't like the guy either, but he is friends with most of the players in this league...he knows far more what others players think then you, me, or anyone else on this forum or outside the ball clubs.
I am sure players have these conversations all the time away from their coaches..its not new news that most players in this league do not like Mangini and don't want to play for him.
There is a reason the players in NY said what they said when he was canned...
you can sugarcoat it however you want, but Owens remarks are huge...he just opened his mouth and said what other players are smart enough to keep their trap shut about...why? because Owens just doesn't care...I don't even like Owens, but he just reaffirmed many accusations that players in the league just don't like the guy....Bellichik doesn't act like Napoleon...Mangini does...
the fact Mangini won't play Harrison is just a reflection of Mangini ego...thats all it is...
Mangini trys to hard to be like Bellichik instead of just trying to be himself....there is only 1 Bellichik...Mangini has no personality at all, and has the worst interpersonal skills of just about any coach...he doesn't inspire his players, and he doesn't inspire his men...the guy has poor leadership qualities...
For exmaple... a "leader" shoulders all the blame himself...If Mangini was a real leader, he would tell the press after a loss "I take 100% blame for this loss, its my fault, I call the plays, I send in the subsitutions, its my fault we lost, i'll do my best to fix it"
instead he makes up excuses about fumbles, INTS, and shifts the blame elsewhere....
yes the INTS, fumbles are the players fault however a real leader takes all the blame himself and gives all the accolades to those under him....
being a coach in football is no different then being a general in a war..do you think the General blames his men for losing a battle? nope...even if his men were at fault, the general being a "real leader" takes all the blame himself, and when they do well, the General gives most of the praise to his men who serve under him.
Mangini is a poor leader because he doesn't display these basic leadership qualities...say what you want about RAC, but he was a much better leader, and he shouldered most of the blame on himself and never blamed his players, he never threw his players under the bus like Mangini does...Mangini's irritated statements today about Harrison is in fact throwing him under the bus...ya know, the guy who helped save your job..so much for gratitude eh?
Harrison has every right to feel this way...when Harrison does get a chance to play, he will tear it up...but no way he resigns here as long as Mangini is coach you can bet on that....
Let me guess – you don’t like Mangini.
I am certain that you have irrefutable documentation to back up all of your claims and accusations. And since you have all of that documentation filed and ready to go, I’m certain that you won’t mind substantiating EVERY statement you made. And don’t refer me to some site to look it up. You are the one who made all of these accusations and it’s your responsibility to document them.
For instance, how do you know that “players in this league DO NOT like him [Mangini]”? Note that two paragraphs later your statement has become “Most players in this league do not like him ….” How do you know why Fujita came to Cleveland and Coles didn’t?
Where did you get your definition of a leader and the responsibilities of a general? I've studied and taught leadership for many years and I have never seen those attributes.
And who in the world told you that TO is friends with most of the players in the NFL? You don’t mind presenting the polls you have conducted to substantiate that statement, do you?
I’m not a Mangini admirer, but your statements are so bizarre that readers deserve the validation of your writings.
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It's gotta be frustrating for him.. To go from sending your jersey to the HOF (where it will be remembered forever) to sitting on the bench getting snaps at the end of the game when it your kneeling the ball.. Wow.
exactly...the kid is good enough to have his jersey in the HOF, but he isn't good enough to play for Mangini?
Harrison is big part of the reason Mangini even has a job this year...
Make no mistake the Comments Terrell Owens made about Mangini is "spot on"
Players in this league DO NOT like him..no high profile FA will come here as long as he is HC
In fact Laverneus Coles "refused" to talk to us or return Phone Calls of interest last year when we called about signing him (he later went to Cincy) Yes Coles Snubbed us because of Mangini
Most players in this league do not like him....Fujita only came here because no one else made him an offer, and Saints were not knocking down his door to keep him.
no high profile FA will come here as long as Mangini is coach....the fact the Coles snubbed us because of him just pounds this point even further, and now that TO comes out and states no one likes him, is huge.
Think "whatever you want" About Owens, I don't like the guy either, but he is friends with most of the players in this league...he knows far more what others players think then you, me, or anyone else on this forum or outside the ball clubs.
I am sure players have these conversations all the time away from their coaches..its not new news that most players in this league do not like Mangini and don't want to play for him.
There is a reason the players in NY said what they said when he was canned...
you can sugarcoat it however you want, but Owens remarks are huge...he just opened his mouth and said what other players are smart enough to keep their trap shut about...why? because Owens just doesn't care...I don't even like Owens, but he just reaffirmed many accusations that players in the league just don't like the guy....Bellichik doesn't act like Napoleon...Mangini does...
the fact Mangini won't play Harrison is just a reflection of Mangini ego...thats all it is...
Mangini trys to hard to be like Bellichik instead of just trying to be himself....there is only 1 Bellichik...Mangini has no personality at all, and has the worst interpersonal skills of just about any coach...he doesn't inspire his players, and he doesn't inspire his men...the guy has poor leadership qualities...
For exmaple... a "leader" shoulders all the blame himself...If Mangini was a real leader, he would tell the press after a loss "I take 100% blame for this loss, its my fault, I call the plays, I send in the subsitutions, its my fault we lost, i'll do my best to fix it"
instead he makes up excuses about fumbles, INTS, and shifts the blame elsewhere....
yes the INTS, fumbles are the players fault however a real leader takes all the blame himself and gives all the accolades to those under him....
being a coach in football is no different then being a general in a war..do you think the General blames his men for losing a battle? nope...even if his men were at fault, the general being a "real leader" takes all the blame himself, and when they do well, the General gives most of the praise to his men who serve under him.
Mangini is a poor leader because he doesn't display these basic leadership qualities...say what you want about RAC, but he was a much better leader, and he shouldered most of the blame on himself and never blamed his players, he never threw his players under the bus like Mangini does...Mangini's irritated statements today about Harrison is in fact throwing him under the bus...ya know, the guy who helped save your job..so much for gratitude eh?
Harrison has every right to feel this way...when Harrison does get a chance to play, he will tear it up...but no way he resigns here as long as Mangini is coach you can bet on that....
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Beautiful response !!!! Thanks for taking care of that little problem.,
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Btw in case nobody noticed Harrison was getting hit behind the line of scrimmage most plays which really is on the line or the playcall. Also, two or three of his six runs he didn't have vickers as his lead blocker.
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From the DawgTalkers Rules of the Pound...
RUMORS
If you cannot cite a source when posting information to the board, please do not post it at all. Saying that you saw something on television or heard it on the radio is not sufficient as a valid source. Rumors do not lend to valid discussion and will be removed when seen by a moderator.
In the simplest of terms, if you can't back up what you are saying about specific players and their thinking on specific matters with some kind of proof, link, or source then don't bother trying to use that information a facts to back up your opinions.
On this board we see this sort of posting as someone grasping at straws in an attempt to validate their opinion. But it's not received as fact unless you can back it up with facts. Opinions are not facts and citing other opinions to back them up doesn't fly.
You can quite simply say that you don't believe anyone likes Mangini and you don't believe any quality FA's will sign here because he's the HC. We can all get the logic behind your opinion and understand what you are saying and take that as food for thought. But an attempt to back up your opinion with outlandish information that you can't prove doesn't make your case. Instead it makes your points invalid.
Welcome to the board. Read the Rules, they're in the link at the top right corner of every page. Have a great time here and never mistake our members as idiots who'll believe anything is a fact just because you typed it.
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I think NewDawg was responding to KoB...
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Btw in case nobody noticed Harrison was getting hit behind the line of scrimmage most plays which really is on the line or the playcall. Also, two or three of his six runs he didn't have vickers as his lead blocker.
You left out a third reason why Harrison was getting hit behind the line of scrimmage -- a reason that has caused him to be tackled for losses in previous games. Harrison is too slow getting to the hole. He is usually getting tackled by a blitzer from the outside. For a speed back, there is no excuse for not getting back to the line of scrimmage at the very least.
The question now is: Did we see the REAL Harrison at the end of last season OR are we seeing the REAL Harrison now? And how do we know which one gives us the perspective we neeed to make trade or keep decisions that are being advocated;
Last edited by NewDawg; 10/11/10 04:12 PM.
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Did we see the REAL Harrison at the end of last season
Yes.
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are we seeing the REAL Harrison now?
Yes.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Quote:
From the DawgTalkers Rules of the Pound...
RUMORS
If you cannot cite a source when posting information to the board, please do not post it at all. Saying that you saw something on television or heard it on the radio is not sufficient as a valid source. Rumors do not lend to valid discussion and will be removed when seen by a moderator.
In the simplest of terms, if you can't back up what you are saying about specific players and their thinking on specific matters with some kind of proof, link, or source then don't bother trying to use that information a facts to back up your opinions.
On this board we see this sort of posting as someone grasping at straws in an attempt to validate their opinion. But it's not received as fact unless you can back it up with facts. Opinions are not facts and citing other opinions to back them up doesn't fly.
You can quite simply say that you don't believe anyone likes Mangini and you don't believe any quality FA's will sign here because he's the HC. We can all get the logic behind your opinion and understand what you are saying and take that as food for thought. But an attempt to back up your opinion with outlandish information that you can't prove doesn't make your case. Instead it makes your points invalid.
Welcome to the board. Read the Rules, they're in the link at the top right corner of every page. Have a great time here and never mistake our members as idiots who'll believe anything is a fact just because you typed it.
The above quote, taken from my own reply to one of our new members, NewDawg was actually meant for Knight of Brown. NewDawg quoted KoB in an unorthodox method and I mistakenly read them as NewDawg's own words.
Had I initially read KoB's post earlier in the thread I would have known. But I've long given up on reading his post since they usually contain the same sort of dribble as the afore mentioned one.
Since KoB posts in a manner of a n00b who thinks we will believe anything he types just because he says it, and because I mistakenly thought the quote to be the ramblings of a new member, I thought some guidance from a long-time member would help him along.
I was wrong in to whom I directed my reply and I owe NewDawg an apology for the light scolding I offered him in public. He didn't deserve it since it was not him who said those ignorant things.
From this point on I will continue to be as stupid as I always have been and hope anyone I offend or mistakenly misunderstand in their intentions will forgive me. 
#gmstrong
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Had I initially read KoB's post earlier in the thread I would have known. But I've long given up on reading his post since they usually contain the same sort of dribble as the afore mentioned one.
Since KoB posts in a manner of a n00b who thinks we will believe anything he types just because he says it, and because I mistakenly thought the quote to be the ramblings of a new member, I thought some guidance from a long-time member would help him along.
whatever....
look the statements made were made by Sports Journalists and others from the NY market the year Mangini came here. These statements were made on Twitter, an ever evolving micro blogging site that is NOT allowed to be posted here as some offical source. its not a news site...its a micro blogging service.
The statement may or may not still be on there...that was sometime ago and things change their quickly they could be deleted, maybe they are not..if you want feel free to search Twitter for them yourself. This is also not to mention the statements made by Mike Lombardi...some folks like him, some don't.
Also to be completely fair to "you" which you haven't shown me the same courtesy:
"yeah I can see your reasoning behind playing Harrison over Hillis last week" I totally see your reasoning and its sound logic. i just stated maybe early in the game Hillis wasn't hurt as bad at first and wanted to play, and Mangini thought he gave us the best chance to win AND he didn't figure on Hillis having to play full time last sunday..most likely Hillis was scripted for a few plays considering his condition, however Harrisons failure to do anything forced Eric's hand in a "very" close game...down by only 3 with plenty of time to play Eric was just trying to win.
Yes I am anti-Mangini, i really don't care for him..I am however being fair here, and I am not going to lay everything at his feet.
sure Coles Choose Cinci over us after we called him, he never came for a visit...was part of it Mangini? maybe..was the money offer a blow away in cinci? maybe...
also in a Sport Illustrated Poll they polled 320 NFL players about the coaches they would "least" like to play for
Eric Mangini was 3rd on the list
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/staff/...ike-to-play-for
Also another Sport Illustrated poll asked 296 players "which team would you LEAST like to play for"?
Cleveland Browns was in the Top 5
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1163269/index.htm
All I am saying is the Browns "right now" need to be careful...i don't know if you were around back in the day but the Green Bay Packers were really really bad for a stretch...NFL players used to joke "you better shape up or we will send you to Green Bay" now this was Prior to Reggie White finally going there and Holmgren and Farve turning it around...Reggie White actually joked about this during Super Bowl week back in 1996 during interviews.
I am just saying...The Pack got Lucky Holmgren came in and him and Wolf convinced Reggie White to come on board and give them some sense of moving in the right direction to make them an attractive team.
I am just saying this organization and its fans (myself included) needs to be very careful here....the way we have treated some of our players in the past:
Anderson (left with a bad taste in his mouth and really that wasn't necessary. Sure he wasn't good but some of the things that went on shouldn't have)
Couch, Frye, etc..there is a long list of them.
my point is if we are not careful and continue this trend...we will end up having a John Elway situation on our hands...where we draft a 1st rd Qb and the kid "refuses" to play for us and demands a trade....and don't think this is out of the realm of possibilities either...at the time that happened the Colts had a "reputation" so to speak...and it took them awhile to recover from that and get things fixed.
I do NOT want to see the Browns get to that point...thats why I have erred on the side of caution recently in being too hard on players....
also, don't get me wrong, I have been hard on Mangini, and I personally do not think he is the right coach for this team BUT I do think the man deserves the whole year, i do not want to see him canned before the season is over, and if we do decide to move in another direction at the end of the year I hope the organization treats Mangini with respect and doesn't make him feel like they are just tossing him in the gutter...for example treating him like we did romeo (which was fair) paying him, and giving him a thank you for his services and parting ways on good terms and showing him respect for what he has done (even if we all don't agree with some of his moves) just showing goodwill towards him so to speak.
thats all...Its just what i see and I want this team to be very careful about this...thats all..I think in terms of FO people we are in good shape with Holmgren and Heckert...I am just worried about some other things..
we as fans need to lay off the QB so much and stop with this "if he doesn't look like Manning he is a bum throw him out" mentality...we should for example give colt 20-23 games and see if something pans out of it instead of just going full bore and drafting a 1st rd QB..he needs time to grow let him play and see what he has and build the D and add a WR
last but not least be patient...I personally am done calling for Mangini's head...even though I don't like the guy if holmgren decides to keep him we just have to ride it out i guess..I am just worried about how the fans will treat colt McCoy if he doesn't come out of the gate from the get go looking like Manning...
We need to Cheer colt, make him feel appreciated, be patient and give the kid 20-23 games before we pass judgement on him...just let him grow like fine wine 
anyways enough with the rant, I respect folks on here..perhaps my thoughts are different then most, but thats why life has such variety
but resorting to calling me a "noob" or what not is just not practical...I am not twisting anyones arm to take my word for anything...im just voicing my thoughts...nothing more...the NY media didn't like Mangini...those things were said about him on Twitter and by Lombardi...it is what is is..if you agree with them or not is a persons personal matter.
good day!
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