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but resorting to calling me a "noob" or what not is just not practical...
I didn't resort to calling you a "noob". I said you post in the manner of one and I explained what I meant by that.
For example...
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... in a Sport Illustrated Poll they polled 320 NFL players about the coaches they would "least" like to play for
Eric Mangini was 3rd on the list
The poll was taken in 2008 when Mangini was coaching the Jets.
Bill Belichick was 2nd on the list. (same link)
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Also another Sport Illustrated poll asked 296 players "which team would you LEAST like to play for"?
Cleveland Browns was in the Top 5
And the Packers were 2nd. (same link)
7% of the players named the Browns as the team they'd least like to play for. That's 7 out of 100. Hardley a solid backup fact or a ringing endorsement for your claim that NO ONE wants to play here.
Besides, that poll was taken on November 30, 2009. The Browns were 1-11 and had those jokers Anderson and Quinn who couldn't decide between them which were the most humiliating and embarrassing to their team and fans. How else would you expect the poll to have gone at that precise time? Geesh.
To me using this to back up the claim that no one wants to play here is just grasping at straws and using anything you can to bolster your point.
It reminds me of this: A poll was taken of 1300 people who were asked if they would like some ice cream. All 1300 said no. So you go around telling everyone that no one really wants ice cream. Then we find out that the poll was taken of 1300 near-survivors of the Titanic while they were hanging onto wooden debris and floating suitcases in the icy waters of the North Atlantic clutching on for dear life the night of the shipwreck.
And this gem: Quoting TO and standing behind his remarks that no one likes Mangini, not even his players. As though he were an authority on anything.
Classless act and known trouble maker. He even has a history of trying to make trouble for teams he doesn't even play for like he did with his continuing Garcia comments. Likewise with his comments about McNabb after leaving there. Yet you quoted him, and stood by his remarks. Right now he is at it again badmouthing his own team.
These are the types of facts and the type of people you want to hold up as backing your opinions? Honestly, anyone can do better than this. It is these types of things that have caused me to simply scroll past your posts as having nothing of merit in them. You might say some good things but they're cloaked by the nonsense.
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last but not least be patient...I personally am done calling for Mangini's head...even though I don't like the guy...
If you can sustain this you will find yourself less inclined to look for anything you can to backup your hatred for the guy. That alone will make you feel easier about the whole mess. And it will make your posting easier to read since it won't be filled with such hatred and outright nonsense because of it.
So since you've made a resolution I'll make one as well; I'll read your posts again so long as they contain your thoughts and opinions without the junk.
You have a good day too. 
#gmstrong
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The constant ragging on KoB and some of the other guys that obviously dislike Mangini reminds me of an old phrase.........
"Just because he's paranoid doesn't mean he's not being followed."
In other words, just because he's constantly on Mangini's back doesn't mean he's wrong about the guy.
I spent some time in Vegas this summer and had a few beers with Rishuz. He is (or might I say was) a BIG Mangini backer. Me - not so much. We talked back and forth about what he saw as EM's positives and what I saw as his negatives. But in the end we agreed that the best thing would be if he made the Browns a winner.
That's all that anyone this side of Pittsburgh wants. But if he can't do it, and soon, then he needs to go for someone who can. I think it's really that simple.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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and soon
The two most important words in your post.. I'm sure nobody is real happy with being 1-4 and everybody wants to be 4-1.. I'm sure that is what Mangini wants as well and I firmly believe he can get us there.. how fast is the question.. how much time do you we give him?
I am of the opinion, and I reserve the right to change my mind if something happens, but as of right now, I'd give him at least next year.. I might have a long talk with him about Daboll, but I think Mangini gets next year unless he loses the team at some point.
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Especially with the way the team is competing as compared to last year.
Yes, it's a W-L league.
But there can be NO doubt that this team is better than last year's team, at least to this point in the season.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Got Milk?
Mangini isn't going to get next year if the Browns don't end with a respectable record..I don't feel for a second MH is loving what he sees in this staff..distancing/alienating certain players,inflexiblity regarding personnel/packages/playcalling..
When they look at the Browns offense,it's enough to get these guys canned right now..but it won't happen till the end of the year.
I know I don't want either of them back..neither knows much of anything about running a offense..sick of this mess..sick of coaching staffs not knowing how to run a offense efficiently and use their weapons to their advantage dispite the fact they blout out how they're gonna do this n that....and a defense that has never been completed and loaded properly..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/13/10 10:24 AM.
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At the same time I don't believe MH is gonna fault Mangini for the pick 6's made by the QB's that he brought in and the 40 something yard fg that Dawson missed that could be accounted for at least 3 of our losses so far.
The injuries to our top 2 QB's and the feature back we moved up in the draft for are also problems that I don't believe will fall onto the shoulders of the HC.
As long as he can keep these guys playing hard for him he just might be OK,..BUT,...time will tell.
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No, and I blame MH for that..I said at the time I didn't want JD ..I thought then and still do that he's finished...bad choice,wasted money on him.
I never blame injuries on a coach ,however I do blame Mangini for trotting JD out there when he clearly shouldn't have been out there .
The other things are in the coaches control and the decisions they make don't seem to be making players better.
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At the same time I don't believe MH is gonna fault Mangini for the pick 6's made by the QB's that he brought in and the 40 something yard fg that Dawson missed that could be accounted for at least 3 of our losses so far.
The injuries to our top 2 QB's and the feature back we moved up in the draft for are also problems that I don't believe will fall onto the shoulders of the HC.
As long as he can keep these guys playing hard for him he just might be OK,..BUT,...time will tell.
All of that is often forgotten.. too bad really.
You can't change coaches like we've done in the last 10 years and expect to win even a sausage... sometimes you gotta role with the guy you got..
We did with RAC.. it didn't work out. That doesn't mean it can't with Mangini.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Yeah, just look at the shape RAC left this team in and the hurdles he had created for Mangini to overcome. THEN look at how far we've come as a team in 1 1/3 seasons whille Mangini was (and still is to some degree) the most hated and criticized coach by the media the NFL has ever seen.
The question really should be "who could have came in here and done more for this team in the same amount of time under the same exact circumstances?"
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Yeah, just look at the shape RAC left this team in and the hurdles he had created for Mangini to overcome. THEN look at how far we've come as a team in 1 1/3 seasons whille Mangini was (and still is to some degree) the most hated and criticized coach by the media the NFL has ever seen.
The question really should be "who could have came in here and done more for this team in the same amount of time under the same exact circumstances?"
Few ever look at it from that angle either.. again, really sad
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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The question really should be "who could have came in here and done more for this team in the same amount of time under the same exact circumstances?"
honestly, lots of coaches. but, here is the kicker: lots of other coaches would have come in here and tried to milk out as many wins as possible from the talent on hand without looking to the future at all.
mangini took a risk and decided to build the team from the ground up. trying to create a team that did not win 9 or 10 games one year and fall apart, but one that could compete consistently ala Indy, NE, Pitt.
now, I nor anyone else knows if he will be successful in his quest to do it. I believe having Heckert run the draft and Holmgren on the staff to help increases the odds, but really we (and them) are all guessing if things will eventually come together as they plan.
(one funny note: one of the biggest "win now" coaches in recent NFL was John Gruden. he would overpay vet's and do whatever he could including benching QBs like a college coach if it meant 1 more win that year. there are benefits to that as Dallas could sure use a coach with that fire this year, but the negative is that he never truly built the team and TB had to do the same rebuilding job that we did and they seem ahead of schedule at this point though have some obvious flaws. Ok, end rant)
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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The question really should be "who could have came in here and done more for this team in the same amount of time under the same exact circumstances?"
honestly, lots of coaches. but, here is the kicker: lots of other coaches would have come in here and tried to milk out as many wins as possible from the talent on hand without looking to the future at all.
mangini took a risk and decided to build the team from the ground up. trying to create a team that did not win 9 or 10 games one year and fall apart, but one that could compete consistently ala Indy, NE, Pitt.
now, I nor anyone else knows if he will be successful in his quest to do it. I believe having Heckert run the draft and Holmgren on the staff to help increases the odds, but really we (and them) are all guessing if things will eventually come together as they plan.
(one funny note: one of the biggest "win now" coaches in recent NFL was John Gruden. he would overpay vet's and do whatever he could including benching QBs like a college coach if it meant 1 more win that year. there are benefits to that as Dallas could sure use a coach with that fire this year, but the negative is that he never truly built the team and TB had to do the same rebuilding job that we did and they seem ahead of schedule at this point though have some obvious flaws. Ok, end rant)
You know,, I understand that Gruden doesn't get the credit for the TB team.. Dungy does. (actually, after the SB win in TB, he gave Dungy a lot of credit)
But who gets the credit for the Raiders team that Gruden left to go to TB? The Raiders Team he built the prior years and ended up playing in the SB?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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that post wasn't really meant to 'bash' Gruden. his mindset on coaching is important and necessary for teams to make that final leap to championship contender.
he built it with a lot of cagy veterans others had given up on (like Gannon) and milked out as many wins as he could. they were able to make one last run without him, which is great. but, they fell apart when those veterans declined because they didn't have the foundation beneath them.
as I said, it wasn't meant to 'bash' Gruden. if we had a team like the Cowboys (tons of talent at the skill positions, just missing a few pieces) and were underachieving, Gruden would be one of the first coaches I would call. however, if I had a team I needed to build from the ground up, I would prefer a coach like Mangini.
now, another key for Mangini will be if he can go from 'building' the team and instilling his philosophy on the team to the type of coach that will milk out every win (Belicheck was able to transition and do both. But, I can't think of many others outside Dungy who could)
#gmstrong
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Yeah, just look at the shape RAC left this team in and the hurdles he had created for Mangini to overcome
Not true,Rac did little to shape the roster when he was here ..Phil was responsible for whatever mess Mangini got.
Now we can question how Rac used what he had but he didn't draft anyone or make any trades..
Savage was obsessed with winning quickly and he took too many short cuts,hence the squandered draft picks of 08...
Phil wasn't giving Rac was he really needed to be successful defensively and Phil brought in offensive players he liked .
Now U fast forward to Mangini and we know what he did his first year,so he's partly responsible for whats lacking on this team.
While some of U are all giddy about he team being competitive and improved( but that doesn't guarantee wins) ,Daman's ready to be a Mangini apologist figure this ..Rac makes a good DC but a lousy coach..I'm seeing the same thing with Mangini..that he should be a coordinator..not a HC..
He is the opposite of Rac but dispite different philosophies and approaches ,neither knows jack squat about offenses,and both brought in inexperienced play callers who are inept..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/13/10 12:54 PM.
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that post wasn't really meant to 'bash' Gruden.
Oh yeah, I understood that No Logo,, I was just pointing out that which is rarely discussed when talking of Gruden...
I'm just getting ready for the Mangini haters once they become Gruden haters when he becomes our next coach 
Settin the stage so to speak 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Mangini did more with RAC's team than RAC could ever do. RAC put teams out on the field that looked unprepared,unmotivated and lacked discipline. Watching a RAC team was probably the most difficult thing for me to stomach in all my years of being a Browns fan.
Mangini the GM was terrible(he's not the GM anymore so it doesn't even matter now), Mangini the HC is 100X better than RAC the HC. Don't downplay the fact that Mangini puts a competetive team on the field because that's HUGE, and the fact that he's done it in such a short amount of time makes it even bigger.
Once Mangini has all the talent to build a winner and fails to do so that's when I'll be calling for his head.
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There must be this huge disconnect when it comes to sports as a business .. Profit and loss vers W's and L's ! How many Company's ( non sport ) could survive Policy - Davis - Savage - Konkins/Mangini ??
At my place, that might be an upgrade. Heck, they all lasted longer.
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Ask yourself something Cal,just how are they competitive?
Are they putting up numbers,a quick strike offense?
Can they close games out?
Or manage to find a way to lose them?
Are they a punishing run-oriented team which maintains ball control and gets TD's and wears the opponent down?
Or is their defense dispite certain hiccups keeping them in the games?
I see it more the latter..the Browns red-zone D is much better than it has been..But..the offense is inconsistant,makes too many mistakes they can't overcome and has no decent playmakers in the skill positions..oh I'm not discounting Hillis but Atlanta followed a trend that Cincy tried to start..load the box ,shut Hillis down.
Next,watch what Pitt does..then the Saints..
The better defenses who do not feel threatened will scheme this way all year..shut the run down and play man coverage..
I see and have spoken about whats happening on offense and the bizzare things they do,it's not fooling me one bit..while the team is more disciplined than Rac's..really how much more is it???
They still make bone-headed errors,they still turn the ball over..they still have breakdowns at crucial moments ..no productive WR's,a oline not playing well at all and a RB who has no compliment to give him a breather..coaching staff (once more ,just like when Rac was here)doesn't yet know how to utilize what it does have.
Yep but lets cheer on how they're not getting waxed on the scoreboard..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/13/10 01:17 PM.
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Ask yourself something Cal,just how are they competitive?
Are they putting up numbers,a quick strike offense?
Are they a punishing run-oriented team which maintains ball control and gets TD's?
Or is their defense dispite certain hiccups keeping them in the games?
Look, If Delhomme doesn't get injured before the end of the first half during our first friggin game we're probably not even having this discussion. I know you never believed in Jake but the guy really looked good all the way up to his injury.
What is our record with a healthy JD, Hardesty,and Hillis? The O is crumbling right now do to injury, how do you expect the coaches to win games with all this misfortune? Remember, RAC and Savage left a team that was in shambles to Mangini just a little over a YEAR AGO.
Now, in spite of all that. This team is still playing hard and giving us chances to win, honestly, what more can you ask right now. This team is obviously moving in the right direction.
Blowing up the coaching staff right now might not be as devastating as it has been in years past as long as Heckert and Holmgren are running the show, but why risk it?
This is a team that is playing hard together and believing that they are still much better than their record indicates, A FO that starts questioning their coach at this time will certainly change their attitude immediately, it would make me sick to see these guys start giving up.
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So based on your logic, a team CAN NOT be better than it was the year before UNLESS it wins more games...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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U first..
What is our record with a healthy JD, Hardesty,and Hillis?
No one can say..because there's a lot of things that would be happening differently..We never had Hardesty before so his loss is a non factor ..Harrison is healthy is seems to be damaged physcologically..
I submit that possibly the situation at QB might still be stressful..but I just never thought JD could be productive for a whole season.
This team is still playing hard and giving us chances to win, honestly, what more can you ask right now. This team is obviously moving in the right direction.
The defense is..yet you seem to be dodging that point.
The offense has scored in the first half of all the games and failed to produce in the second half when they needed to..
The offensive line is struggling more than they should be.
Analize all that if you really dare to.
U really haven't given me much specifics on where they're improved..I just see a general statement...playing hard..sorry I've seen bad teams play hard many times.
Blowing up the coaching staff right now might not be as devastating as it has been in years past as long as Heckert and Holmgren are running the show, but why risk it?
I didn't say blow it up right now,did I?
Osguy, while the team might look a tad better than last year,you still have to look at it for what it is.
Are they improving or merely on that treadmill again?
I see improvement but maybe not the way a lot of you do..or else you don't know how to break it down.
The D is better but still has holes..but the offense is still way behind,and isn't much better except in 2 areas..
Hillis has emerged as the primary back,while Harrison has regressed,so it almost neutralizes the impact.
U just replace one with the other instead of being able to combine both.
The QB play is far better but ironically Wallace seems to fit better than JD.
The TE spot is clearly better..but then after that I can't see anything that has improved beyond last year.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/13/10 02:17 PM.
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yea, i don't know how to feel about that. it kinda stinks to send one who has some potential for one that were on multiple teams and, if i remember correctly, had some knee/leg injuries. that said, it's clear harrison no longer had value for us.
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Ugh. Awful trade. GL Jerome. GL Mike.
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I just threw up a little bit.
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Wow... that's quite a surprise, but perhaps it shouldn't be.
As some pointed out: Harrison was THE Man at the end of last season, and we greeted that with drafting a RB and trading for another, so there is little reason to doubt that he might have been feeling unhappy and unloved here. In that situation, give him the chance to go someplace else.
Is anyone else rather shocked at the number of early season trades that we've seen this year??
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Holy crap!
I knew something wasn't right with the Harrison situation, but I didn't see a straight up trade coming.
I wonder if Harrison flourishes with a new team or suddenly finds himself out of football like a lot of players who get hyped while they're here.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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terrible, just terrible for the Browns.
It was obvious that he had fallen out of favor with the Browns.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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yea, i don't know how to feel about that. it kinda stinks to send one who has some potential for one that were on multiple teams
True, but in a year or two we might be saying the same thing about Harrison being on multiple teams.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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j/c
For the life of me, I can't remember what kind of RB Bell is. Is he a quick guy, or another thumper?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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He's a big back..6'0 225 .
And I'm not surprised by this move..Harrison was not favored by any coach since he was drafted, yet I still say the Browns don't know how to use a small back.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/13/10 03:15 PM.
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
For the life of me, I can't remember what kind of RB Bell is. Is he a quick guy, or another thumper?
1-cut type of runner. Straight ahead, not much wiggle. Not really a thumper though. Did well for NO in spots and I think Denver a few years ago.
#gmstrong
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he was awesome in denver back when everyone was awesome in denver.
of course you could say the same for hillis.
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Michael Steven "Mike" Bell (born April 23, 1983 in Phoenix, Arizona) is an American football running back for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League. He was signed by the Denver Broncos as an undrafted free agent in 2006. He played college football at Arizona.
Bell has also been a member of the Houston Texans and New Orleans Saints.
4.6 /40
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Gotcha, thanks. I remember he was with the Broncos and then a few other teams, but I never paid attention to him to know what kind of runner he is.
I'm guessing this means we have Hillis/Bell to soften things up, then Davis to be the speed guy?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jerome Harrison
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