|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,411 Likes: 463
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,411 Likes: 463 |
I wouldn't even say that they played soft at the end.
They stopped bringing everyone on the blitz on every play, that was the major difference. They actually might have played better coverage at the end of the game. They certainly played more cover 2 (or3) at the end, with the Safeties actually back in deeper coverage.
You know that they didn't want to give u a TD to us. McCoy did a great job of just driving the team down the field with some perfect throws anyway.
I am not ready to annoint him the chosen one just yet ...... but he should start the rest of the way out if he continues to develop.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Nothing to lose by starting him the rest of the season. Delhomme ain't it, either is Wallace. Neither will be here long term. So even if the kid ends up as a career #2, at least he gets game experience. Playoff hopes are out the window, let the kid play out the season. Like I said, nothing to lose.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,627 Likes: 115
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,627 Likes: 115 |
My vote would be to play Wallace as soon as he's healthy, which won't be for a few weeks in any case. Until then, let McCoy show us what he's got. Fact is Wallace is a keeper to, if only as a quality backup. We still don't really know if we have a legit starter. Might still only have 2 quality backups. There's a LOT of bubbles primed for bursting around here. Lets not forget that Holcolm and Anderson both looked awesome until teams got tape on them. We still don't really know if Colt has the long arm and we still don't know how he's going to look once the opposition has a few games worth of tape on him. Both this board and the Browns Chat board are going bonkers, as if we have never seen an unknown QB play a pretty good game or 2 before. As if we've never had our hopes and beliefs utterly crushed once the defenses figured them out. Lets all settle down, see how he fares against the Saints and probably the Patriots (LOL, what a baptism by fire   ) and then let Wallace close it out if possible. In all liklihood Colt will see more action even after the Vets come back. High ankle sprains take a long time to really go away totally and judging how our vaunted OL is pass protecting, more high ankle sprains are on the way. I'd bet Colt starts 5 or 6 games this season anyway if only because the only other option will be Ratliff. But the right coaching decision IMO would be to get Wallace back in there ASAP.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,627 Likes: 115
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,627 Likes: 115 |
And yes, there is a lot to lose. You rookie QB's health, both mentally and physcially.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
As some other have said, I agree that when Wallace is healthy he should come back in and start this year.
While McCoy had a much better game than I anticipated (especially on that rollout downfield pass to Moore, wowsers,) he still showed some bad rookie habits which could benefit from sitting and learning from Wallace, who does a really nice job of moving around while keeping his eyes downfield. Obviously, some of McCoy's skittishness was brought upon by what we feared, the OLine's occasional being overwhelmed by a heavy Pittsburgh blitz. Many times the OL held their own, but there were a couple times where they were on top of McCoy before he could turn around.
That being said, it's unlikely that Delhomme or Wallace will be healthy enough to go next week, so he'll likely get the start. I'm glad (and impressed) he showed he can hang.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159 |
I'm more in the camp that if Wallace or Delhomme can play, they should..
I'm kinda old school in that regard.. Vets don't lose thier jobs due to injury.. Old fashion,, I know..
This isn't a knock on Colt McCoy in the least. I was pleased with his overall performance yesterday.. That's a tough place to get your first start and he handled it pretty well...
I suspect we'll see him for another week or two at least as Wallaces high angle sprain will take that long at least to clear up.. probably more.
But McCoys performance yesterday allows us to not rush Delhomme or Wallace back into the line up.. let them heal up right. There isn't a need to rush this.
I might feel differently than I do now given a few more games.. If McCoy demonstrates he's the man, we might have to play him the rest of the year.
He just might earn it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
And yes, there is a lot to lose. You rookie QB's health, both mentally and physcially.
Right, because rookies are so fragile. I forgot, sorry. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,543 Likes: 987
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,543 Likes: 987 |
Quote:
Quote:
To the right teams, I think we could get a 2nd for each.
Cool, and then let's draft Veikune or Robo or Massa or do you prefer Ncutt, S.Jones, C.Thompson? E.Wright and Dqwell is the best we did over the years in he 2nd round....seriuosly, what's wrong with you guys? Rogers maybe but why in the world Cribbs, who just re-signed? We need playmakers and you want to get rid of our only one? Cribbs will be much more effective once we get some more playmakers...yeah, let's trade him...that already worked so well with BE and KW
I just think the guys best football is behind him.
He isn't that good of a receiver or QB, and teams don't kick to him anymore.
I look at him as a stock....buy low and sell high.
We bought in low, and he is as high as he is going to get.
I like to think the positive and think we can find good players in round 2.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,543 Likes: 987
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,543 Likes: 987 |
Quote:
I wouldn't even say that they played soft at the end.
They stopped bringing everyone on the blitz on every play, that was the major difference. They actually might have played better coverage at the end of the game. They certainly played more cover 2 (or3) at the end, with the Safeties actually back in deeper coverage.
You know that they didn't want to give u a TD to us. McCoy did a great job of just driving the team down the field with some perfect throws anyway.
I am not ready to annoint him the chosen one just yet ...... but he should start the rest of the way out if he continues to develop.
Soft may not be the word....but as you said, it wasn't a blitz and they did seem to keep people in front of them.....but to say again....I was impressed with what he did in his first game against a very good football team. It gives me some hope. From what i saw yesterday, he looks like he can become a pretty darn good QB....been a while since we said that.
But, it is just one game....next week will give us another clue as i really don't expect anyone but him to take the snaps. Partly because we do need to see him as much as we can and it only makes sense going in to a bye week to give our dinged up QBs another week to heal.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
I'm more in the camp that if Wallace or Delhomme can play, they should..
I'm kinda old school in that regard.. Vets don't lose thier jobs due to injury.. Old fashion,, I know..
I agree, they don't. They DO lose their jobs, however, when they aren't winning games, are too old to be the future, and it's in the best interest of the franchise to see what the younger guys can do. That's the situation we're in.
Delhomme might not even be here next year. Wallace is a high quality backup but he's not a good starter. We don't know what we have in Colt and we're going to have another top pick in a draft with potential franchise QBs at the top of it. We need to know what we have in Colt so that we can move forward in a clearcut direction (draft a new franchise QB or invest in him). Either way, I'm sure it will hurt some feelings but it needs to be done so we don't bungle this again.
Only problem is, I'm not sure a coach who is playing for his job will want to rest his hopes on a rookie. Just like we couldn't get Romeo/Mangini last year to play Quinn to see what we had in him, I'm afraid that as soon as our QBs are healthy, Colt is headed back into cold storage. Nothing worse than a coach trying to keep his job when a team needs to build for the future.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
THAT'S what I'm up against, I just don't want this guy to stand in the way of drafting a QB in the Top 5 next April
This is proof positive that you DO NOT WANT HIM TO BE GOOD.. you don't... You have already made up your mind... You already have your heart set on paying another unproven rookie $50 million next year because he has a bigger name...
Quote:
and I really don't see most of the "positives" posted on here....did you really see a "poised" QB?
Yes I did.. so did a lot of other people.. like Mike Tomlin, Eric Steinbach and a whole host of other people who obviously know less about pro football than you.. for a kid in his first NFL start ever, who did not get the reps in preseason.. yea, I saw a hell of a poised kid back there.
Quote:
I really didn't, he took off pretty soon, he was 1read and go style and he waited ages back there....
He did tuck and run a bit sooner than I would have liked, especially in the 2nd quarter.. he appeared to fix that in the second half though... but really, which is it? Did he run too soon? Did he throw to his first read too soon? Or did he hold the ball too long? Those seem to be a bit mutually exclusive.. or are you just looking for stuff to complain about?
Quote:
the TD drive really is meaningless, the FG was all on Haden's INT...we didn't even come close to scoring for 3.5 Qtrs...I'm really baffled at what you guys saw. Over 120yds of McCoy came with 3 scores up in the last 5 min, coincidence? I saw a rookie QB throw for 150yd, 2 INTs, get sacked 5 times and no scoring drives when the game was on...can we please stop making the same mistakes again and again? Draft a real QB in the 1st, develop McCoy as a backup, which I am sure he's best suited for....what's the problem with that? He was passed over by numerous teams needing a QB over 3 times, that's not coincidence, that's consensus (and before anyone brings up Brady: he was a part time CFB starter and NOT the QB with the most wins)
Blah, Blah, Blah.. whatever. In Sam Bradfords first game (where he had all camp to take first team reps) he threw for 250 yards on 55 attempts, he also threw 3 ints and only managed 3 more points than Colt did against possibly the best defense in the NFL on one weeks practice.. and Bradford was playing freakin' Arizona who ranks a stellar 27th in the NFL in defense..
Is Colt going to be great? I don't know.. Is Bradford going to be great? I don't know... Is Mallet or Luck going to be great? I don't know... but I can tell you my preference... and that is that Colt keeps the job and shows great promise and we can use that top 5 pick next year of a best of a pass rusher or a beast of an ILB run stopper or maybe even a beast of game breaking WR... something... ANYTHING other than a $50 million quarterback...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,120 Likes: 143
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,120 Likes: 143 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
True or False: QB is the single biggest reason for our lacknof success since the return.
False.
Then what is it? The offensive line? C'mon now...
Nothing ruins a season like poor QB play.
The best qb in the world isn't going to do much if you have no WR's to throw to. It's funny, weren't you the one preaching about being patient with the process?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,187 Likes: 1224
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,187 Likes: 1224 |
1. McCoy has gained the respect and confidence of his teammates. If you read the PD this morning check the quotes from Steinbach and others. He is a "natural leader". That comes from Steinbach. Being a leader is something that can not be taught and is one of the key ingredients in being a NFL QB.
2. In his first game under adverse conditions (in Pittsburgh without Cribbs and Momass) he played better than Wallace or Delhomme has so far. He showed poise and confidence. He threw the ball accurately.
3. He gives us the best chance to win. Delhomme is done. He has demonstrated poor judgment when playing and for sure is not the future. Wallace it could be argued has more experience and "may" play better if healthy. However, he is what he is and that is a career backup. He has some qualities but also limitations.
4. The team is 1-5 and going nowhere. McCoy would gain valuable experience from the playing time. It would give him the opportunity to develop the necessary chemistry with the receivers and the team. In addition to learning the NFL defenses.
5. Management will be able to assess what they have in McCoy to a degree. It will also give them information on how to go in the draft. However, this is a factor that I don't believe is that important. It is my belief that even if Colt plays lights out and the Browns get a shot to draft Luck I believe they should. After this year no matter McCoy's play or the season outcome in wins and loses I for one am ready to put all the my eggs in one basket. The position of QB has been a disaster for the Browns and a solution is imperative. If you get a shot at a franchise QB and one is not yet established then you take it.
6. McCoy playing just gives everybody a lift. He provides hope and promise which is something this organization needs desperately.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
True or False: QB is the single biggest reason for our lacknof success since the return.
False.
Then what is it? The offensive line? C'mon now...
Nothing ruins a season like poor QB play.
The best qb in the world isn't going to do much if you have no WR's to throw to. It's funny, weren't you the one preaching about being patient with the process?
Tom Brady has won Super Bowls with...
Troy Brown
David Patten
Dieon Branch
David Givens
We need receivers, for sure. But you don't need great receivers to win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 284
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 284 |
Quote:
Quote:
I really didn't, he took off pretty soon, he was 1read and go style and he waited ages back there....
... but really, which is it? Did he run too soon? Did he throw to his first read too soon? Or did he hold the ball too long? Those seem to be a bit mutually exclusive.. or are you just looking for stuff to complain about?
Easy, there, DC, you don't want to make too much sense in one post.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
With the Bills likely to draft ahead of us and 49ers possibly to draft ahead of us, its unlikely we'll have a shot at Luck and maybe won't have a shot at Locker. I still say we go get AJ Green. He looks like his floor is Brandon Lloyd and his ceiling is Reggie Wayne/Ochocinco.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,460 Likes: 818
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,460 Likes: 818 |
Dude, you are just awful. You give a fair assessment, but without any context at all. You're going to roast our rookie QB playing his first game against Pissburgh in their house while we're in the middle of a rash of injuries? Really? You make good points sometimes, but this latest rant of yours is pathetic. You did make a good point about Colt getting happy feet, but you fail to note the positive which was him going through his progressions not taking off early in the second half. I mean, the improvement in that aspect from the first half to the second was about as obvious at it gets. Let me turn one of your canned responses on you. What game were you watching? 
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
True or False: QB is the single biggest reason for our lacknof success since the return.
False.
Then what is it? The offensive line? C'mon now...
Nothing ruins a season like poor QB play.
The best qb in the world isn't going to do much if you have no WR's to throw to. It's funny, weren't you the one preaching about being patient with the process?
Tom Brady has won Super Bowls with...
Troy Brown
David Patten
Dieon Branch
David Givens
We need receivers, for sure. But you don't need great receivers to win.
Those guys were/are all better than what we have.. so maybe needing GREAT receivers isn't mandatory, but we absolutly need BETTER receivers than we have. It's hard to tell on TV but they don't look like they can get any seperation from defenders..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887 |
I said it in the last thread about Colt when we started 0-3. You are not going to learn much on the bench that you won't learn playing. You will learn more playing. As long as he isn't getting killed like Couch was then let's roll. Our line is good enough to start a rookie and people have to respect Peyton Hillis to not pass blitz the whole game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I really didn't, he took off pretty soon, he was 1read and go style and he waited ages back there....
... but really, which is it? Did he run too soon? Did he throw to his first read too soon? Or did he hold the ball too long? Those seem to be a bit mutually exclusive.. or are you just looking for stuff to complain about?
Easy, there, DC, you don't want to make too much sense in one post.
You can do both in different plays....happy feet AND holding the ball too long (2nd half? maybe he was told not to take off so much anymore)...neither is good in my book. Don't remember many plays where he didn't do 1 of them, that's why I don't get all the "poised" remarks...for me he was either skittish or a deer in the headlights. The funny thing is: his best throw was his 1st INT (even though the decision was, let's say "optimistic" but that was ok with me, he tried to make a play)...thew throws before that were awful especially the backfoot across his body ones....he had a lot of those too (Quinn was a master of it), the INT was a nice step up and throw
I already said what game I saw....a rookie QB throwing fpor 150yds (in ~30 pass attempts to that point), getting sacked 5 times and who threw 2 INTs behind a stellar playing OL...pretty much in line of what I expected in a game against PIT's D from a rookie....I'm just amazed at the homerism around here, guys wanting to "see more" and thinking he may be our future....I'm pretty confident that he isn't as much as I would already like to have that franchise QB on our roster because I hate it as much as the next fan to roll the dice in the top 10 on a QB prospect....and no, he wasn't better than Wallace, whoever thinks that is into some Quinn-like love already
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159 |
Quote:
and no, he wasn't better than Wallace, whoever thinks that is into some Quinn-like love already
He's wasn't better than wallace would have been yesterday.. so I guess I agree with you there.. But I think he's gonna be better than wallace can be in the long run.
But seriously, with only one game (and a tough one) under his belt, I don't know how the rest of McCoys career is going to go...
Some very smart people IN the business seem to think he's going to be a good one.. Cowher yesterday said as much, so did Marino..
Don't be offended by this Jango, But I gotta take thier word over yours.... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
No problem, I trust my player and in this case prospect judgements....I miss a few (never thought Carriker would suck this much ie and I thought WR Hardy would be a fine WR, now he's nothing) but have a good track record overall... So hey, I'm all for McCoy proving me wrong...I dont see much more than a Wallace though (as a ceiling). In fact, I think they share a lot of their strengths and weaknesses.... I don't want to cut Colt or hate him (like I do Mangini  ) but I just don't see a franchise caliber QB, neither now nor back at Texas.....keep him, let him play, develop him... AS A GOOD, CAPABLE BACKUP (like Wallace)...but imho that's really his best case scenario At this point the worst we could do is waste more time "to find out" the hard way...AGAIN (did the same mistake already twice with some middling QB talent in Frye and Quinn)....just don't go there anymore. Draft a Top 10 QB and if McCoy surprises me and becomes a viable starter, great....we have 2 top QB talents and a nice problem to have (trade ammunition at least)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
I was pleasantly surprised with what I saw yesterday. I was expecting more of Brady "Oh my God, what the hell is going on?" Quinn, but he actually looked quite calm and composed against arguably the best D in the league. He wasn't perfect, but he played better than I would have expected.
That said, he improved quite a bit by sitting back, watching the game, watching film, and practicing. I'd want him to continue to do so, meaning I'd like to see Seneca behind center when healthy, and McCoy can look to go into 2011 as the starter.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
...just clicking
Of what I saw, he looked comfortable and poised. He actually threw the ball downfield a few times (something we NEVER saw with Quinn - well, Quinn did, but out of bounds). I would have liked him to run a little more though I understand after seeing MoMass and Cribbs coming off in their condition.
I want to see more and I hope we give him targets to hit.
Lookout New Orleans....
And I'm not excited that we "finally found our QB". He needs more work and experience. If we're in position to draft a QB in the Top 5, I want to know what we have in McCoy first.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 Likes: 1
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 Likes: 1 |
I appreciate the very few that were specific when going after Django.
Perhaps the board would be better if everybody on here just agreed with those being positive and specific technical issues were never adressed.
Anytime someone is being specific, I appreciate their perspective. When you attack someone without addressing specifically what they said that is... nevermind.
I didn't get to see the game.
Did McCoy throw off his back foot most of the day? If so, then he still has a major weakness, that he had in college (which caused him to drop to the 3rd), and that he will definately have to correct if he is EVER going to be a successful NFL Quarterback!
Another very important problem that he had in college was he had a weak arm and threw the ball poorly (yet accurately). Is that still evident? If so, then he will have to correct it if he is ever going to be a successful NFL Quarterback.
There are conflicting interpretations of how McCoy looked. As in history, sometimes the negative outlook is a lot more revealing.
I just want a franchise quarterback. I want it sooner than later. Did McCoy really pass the eye test? Does he throw off his back foot and not step into his throws? Was he skittish in the pocket, or composed?
Much of what negative posters put on this board is very important. If they are wrong, or if you believe they are wrong, base your argument on what they are saying. Django puts himself on the line. Most of the time when he''s attacked some of you sound like middle school girls.
By the way, I don't care what Cowher says, I trust most of your opinions a lot more than what comes out of his mouth.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
Quote:
At this point my hope is Heckert gets busy and looks to trade Rogers for a pick and this probably won't go over very well, but I would look to ship Cribbs. He is at the top of his value IMO and in the grand scheme, I don't see him helping us win all that many more games....I would look to get a pick for him.
To the right teams, I think we could get a 2nd for each.
Really????? You would get rid of Cribbs? Your teams identity and most beloved Brown for a second round hopefull next year? The only player that is a true offensive THREAT on your team!!!!
I'm glad your not GM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,460 Likes: 818
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,460 Likes: 818 |
I think that's fair. I'm not sure what McCoy will turn out to be. You very well could be right about him turning out to be a Seneca Wallace (quality backup) type.
I think everyone calling for him to get more starts is silly, but for a different reason. Colt WILL get more starts, but out of necessity. Wallace and JD will both probably need at least one more week to heal up (probably more). We'll be seeing more of McCoy whether we like it or not. Personally, I'm interested to see what he can do with a couple starts in a row. If he can improve on subsequent starts, that will be huge. I'll be looking for him to put up points earlier and more often against the Saints D. He'll prolly throw a pick or two, but I'll live with that if he can score.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 Likes: 445
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 Likes: 445 |
To me, I only care about one thing. Finding the QB for the next 15 years. Our Peyton Manning. That's all I care about. The wins will follow.
I don't believe Wallace is that guy. And I think the organization should be doing whatever it takes to find that guy. Is playing Wallace and sitting McCoy helping us in that regard? I would argue that it is not. Is playing McCoy going to help us find that guy? I would argue that it would. It should give us some clarity on what direction to go in the draft next year. I think if he sits the rest of this year, there might be even more uncertainty of what he is capable of doing.
I would hate to go into next year's draft, have a really nice QB prospect sitting there, and pass on him because we think McCoy could be the guy based on a spot performance here or there.
Let's see what this kid's got.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 71
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 71 |
I'm in the "start him" camp.
I don't quite understand the philosophy that calls for babying a QB. It's been bad here. But not because of the QB as much as the rest of the team. In the last decade, we've ruined rookie QBs because we sent them into a game with no line, no running game, a dumbed down plan and no recievers. Not to mention Special teams and crappy defenses to add field-position troubles.
This situation is different. We have no recievers. That's a given. But we do have a running game, a line, pretty good TEs and a much better D.
You are not sending him to the firing squad. He has enough to work with.
He went into the worst possible situation and played very well. You can't judge him on one game and fortunately, we'll get to see him next week too. And if he does well next week, I say he's earned the job through the bye.
Our season is over. We are in evaluation mode. Not even halfway through October but it is what it is. One thing is for sure, though. We HAVE to figure out if we have a QB on the roster. It is our TOP priority.
And 2 words for Holmgren regarding the mess that is Delhomme:
Injury Settlement.
That was a HUGE blunder.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
I didn't get to see the game.
Did McCoy throw off his back foot most of the day? If so, then he still has a major weakness, that he had in college (which caused him to drop to the 3rd), and that he will definately have to correct if he is EVER going to be a successful NFL Quarterback!
Only when he needed to, say on a screen when there was a defender right in his face. For most of the day, he was throwing off his front foot and putting the ball where it needed to be with good speed.
Quote:
Another very important problem that he had in college was he had a weak arm and threw the ball poorly (yet accurately). Is that still evident? If so, then he will have to correct it if he is ever going to be a successful NFL Quarterback.
Sometimes, but he was fitting balls into NFL windows. The only time I noticed flutter on his ball was on a deep route to Moore near the sideline. His deep out needs SOME work, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in the pre-season or college.
Let's put it this way, it was evident someone had worked with him on improving arm strength.
Quote:
There are conflicting interpretations of how McCoy looked. As in history, sometimes the negative outlook is a lot more revealing.
Django is being overly negative on McCoy. He did not look shaken, nor did he throw bad balls. Not at all, in fact.
Django also hit on some aspects of McCoy that others aren't talking about, such as the happy feat, not always going through his reads, holding the ball too long at times and sometimes being too quick to get rid of the ball.
The thing is, I would say 90% of what McCoy did yesterday is correctable with experience and repetition. The other 10%, like his deep out throw...yeah, that may be his weakness in the future
However, McCoy's ability yesterday to keep plays alive, to allow plays to develop *most of the time*, and his accuracy were outstanding, even more so when you consider it was his first game of his NFL career against the Steelers. The most important thing I saw was that he did not try and force it like a rookie would do. There may have been a throw in the first quarter, his first pick, where he may have forced it, but from then on he looked like an NFL QB. Hell, he even threw the ball away, something Frye, Quinn or Anderson NEVER learned.
This coming Sunday will be the truest test of his skills yet. There is tape, he has to read adjustments and beat the defense.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
We have a coach who is coaching for his job. He's going to put the QB in that gives us the best chance to win. When all the QB's are healthy Colt McCoy is 2nd in that line.
I would like to see if he's the real McCoy (see what I did there). But when healthy Wallace gives us the best chance to win. And Mangini is fighting for his job.
If it were up to you and your job was on the line who would you pick?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
I'm more in the camp that if Wallace or Delhomme can play, they should..
I'm kinda old school in that regard.. Vets don't lose thier jobs due to injury.. Old fashion,, I know..
This isn't a knock on Colt McCoy in the least. I was pleased with his overall performance yesterday.. That's a tough place to get your first start and he handled it pretty well...
I suspect we'll see him for another week or two at least as Wallaces high angle sprain will take that long at least to clear up.. probably more.
But McCoys performance yesterday allows us to not rush Delhomme or Wallace back into the line up.. let them heal up right. There isn't a need to rush this.
I might feel differently than I do now given a few more games.. If McCoy demonstrates he's the man, we might have to play him the rest of the year.
He just might earn it..
The team is out of a playoff chance
Tom Heckert and Mike Holmgren need to know if they are drafting a Julio Jones or a Andrew Luck. The ideal of sitting and giving Colt a learning year is over. He's more than stuck his toes in the water, he jumped in the deep end against pitt and he swam. he didn't lose that game. Thats all we brought those vets in to do right? Jake and Seneca were brought into manage games...We all saw Jake isn't capable of that and Seneca is...Now we also saw Colt pass his first test...We need more data though... Holmgren knows what Wallace is capable of. He'e a bandaid. If McCoy doesn't work out he can go out there and not lose games for the Browns till they find a franchise QB. If Colt continues to show the poise he showed yesterday and accuracy, then they can build around him.
No reason at all to not play the kid.
Everyone's gotta understand you DO lose your job based on injuries. It's based on ability, not seniority.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
We have a coach who is coaching for his job. He's going to put the QB in that gives us the best chance to win. When all the QB's are healthy Colt McCoy is 2nd in that line.
I would like to see if he's the real McCoy (see what I did there). But when healthy Wallace gives us the best chance to win. And Mangini is fighting for his job.
If it were up to you and your job was on the line who would you pick?
Honestly? McCoy.
I could argue that it was a development year and that we were trying to get McCoy ready for when the team is whole.
It's a better argument than trying to win and proceeding to win only 5 games.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159 |
Quote:
Did McCoy throw off his back foot most of the day?
I didn't see that more than twice.. both times while trying to get out of the way of someone coming at him full speed.
Quote:
Another very important problem that he had in college was he had a weak arm and threw the ball poorly (yet accurately).
Not a problem.. he had way more zip on the ball than people were saying.. I'm surprised that anyone could actually say he had a weak arm and do so with a straight face..
This I will say, some of his passes were of the Wobbler variety.. kinda ugly but they got there. He's an accurate passer.. no question in my mind.
Quote:
There are conflicting interpretations of how McCoy looked. As in history, sometimes the negative outlook is a lot more revealing.
There aren't that many opinions of him saying he didn't look good.. in fact, take a count and I think you will find at least a 5 to 1 ratio of those that think he looked good as opposed to those that think otherwise.
Sometimes looking at the negative isn't worth anything.. Given that more think he's gonna be decent (not spectacular,, its much to early for that kinda talk) far outweighs the negative. I don't think the negative reveals a thing...
Quote:
I just want a franchise quarterback. I want it sooner than later. Did McCoy really pass the eye test? Does he throw off his back foot and not step into his throws? Was he skittish in the pocket, or composed?
We all want a franchise QB.. nothing new about that. and of course, we all want it sooner than later.
I've already said that I didn't see McCoy throw off his back foot, except a couple of times and they were more out of necessity.
He was skittish at first.. I think a little of the deer in the headlights kinda thing. But he settled down quickly and became VERY composed.. And yeah, he's got plenty of arm..
So if thats what your using as a barometer,,, he passed the first test.
I have no idea what that means in the long haul... anyone can have a good game.. Quinn did it, Couch did also,, so did anderson.. So I'm not sitting here saying we have are Franchise QB.. Can't do that in all honesty.. But he looked good.. Very poised in the pocket.. he's got wheels and can use them... although he may have used them more than he should have.. He may have been better served sitting in the pocket.. don't know for sure. But he's a rookie..
Quote:
By the way, I don't care what Cowher says, I trust most of your opinions a lot more than what comes out of his mouth.
You don't trust this guy;
Career Highlights, Awards, and Accolades:
•1992 AP NFL Coach of the Year
•1992 Sporting News NFL Coach of the Year
•2004 Sporting News NFL Coach of the Year
•Led Steelers to two AFC championships
•Led Steelers to Super Bowl win: 2006
•Career regular season record: 149-90-1
•Career postseason record: 12-9
http://www.sporthaven.com/players/bill-cowher/
I think he knows football.. I think that Mike Tomlin knows football, I think that Dan Marino knows football and all three of them were very complementary towards what they saw of Colt McCoy yesterday..
Those three guys have probably forgotten more about football than most of us ever knew..
Now, let's top this off.. a noted QB Guru pressed to draft McCoy.. do you think he'd have done that if McCoy had a weak arm... Very legimate thing.that is easy to see.. he's either got a strong arm or he doesn't.. no way to hide that predraft...
So I have no idea how you figured he had a weak arm in college..
Bottom line,,,,there are a few guys that post on this board that don't think McCoy can make it. These are the same guys that if McCoy went 25 for 25, 400 yards, 3 TD"s no INT"s... they'd find something wrong with him.
Be careful who you believe... Trust your eyes...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
Honestly? McCoy.
I could argue that it was a development year and that we were trying to get McCoy ready for when the team is whole.
It's a better argument than trying to win and proceeding to win only 5 games.
I guess I never thought of it like that. You're right.
Does this mean that either way Mangini is toast?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
I saw....a rookie QB throwing fpor 150yds (in ~30 pass attempts to that point), getting sacked 5 times and who threw 2 INTs behind a stellar playing OL..
You are cherry picking your stats in the worst possible way.... Colt McCoy had 20 attempts at the point we went down 21-3 which is when you sort of conclude that the game was over and the Steelers stopped playing defense.. not 30 for 150 yards.. 20 for 150....
Why is it that his yards and his touchdown after that point don't count but his sacks and his interception do? After we went down 21-3 and went into all pass mode he was sacked twice and threw his second interception... for some reason those get included in the day you saw but his yards and his touchdown don't get included.. 
What you are doing is sad, it's agenda driven... it's just sad.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Where was this stellar O-Line everyone is talking about? Our O-Line was embarrassed in the first half from what I saw 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
To me, I only care about one thing. Finding the QB for the next 15 years. Our Peyton Manning. That's all I care about. The wins will follow.
I don't believe Wallace is that guy. And I think the organization should be doing whatever it takes to find that guy. Is playing Wallace and sitting McCoy helping us in that regard? I would argue that it is not. Is playing McCoy going to help us find that guy? I would argue that it would. It should give us some clarity on what direction to go in the draft next year. I think if he sits the rest of this year, there might be even more uncertainty of what he is capable of doing.
I would hate to go into next year's draft, have a really nice QB prospect sitting there, and pass on him because we think McCoy could be the guy based on a spot performance here or there.
Let's see what this kid's got.
100% agree. The only way to accomplish that is to let him play. Mangini's job is in the dog house anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
Quote:
Honestly? McCoy.
I could argue that it was a development year and that we were trying to get McCoy ready for when the team is whole.
It's a better argument than trying to win and proceeding to win only 5 games.
I guess I never thought of it like that. You're right.
Does this mean that either way Mangini is toast?
I think Mangini is going to need a miracle. I don't think there is either enough improvement or wins left in the schedule. Not unless there is a significant improvement from the secondary and receiving corp.
Which is both unfortunate and good, IMO. Unfortunate because Mangini knows football and can teach it to anyone with the IQ over 50. Good because I simply do not think Mangini's philosophy or game management will win a Super Bowl. Ever.
We'll see. Holmgren has already shown he is willing to wait in order to get it right. Only question is how Holmgren sees it.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
J/C
glad Colt looked decent yesterday.
glad Colt gets to start next week (assuming Seneca/Jake still injured).
glad the coaches don't have to decide until 'after' that game whether or not he deserves a 3rd start (and that is only if Seneca is ready after the bye).
someone mentioned it above, but wanted to restate for emphasis. if Colt does start, then this would be his first 4 games:
Pitt
NO
NE
NYJ
all tough pass defenses (NE's been somewhat down this year in that regard, but Belicheck has a history of befuddling QBs; especially the first time they face his defenses)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Let McCoy Start the Rest of the
Season
|
|
![[Linked Image from i26.tinypic.com]](http://i26.tinypic.com/30vow7m.jpg)
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
