DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Let McCoy Start the Rest of the Season

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True or False: QB is the single biggest reason for our lacknof success since the return.

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False.

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Then what is it? The offensive line? C'mon now...

Nothing ruins a season like poor QB play.

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The best qb in the world isn't going to do much if you have no WR's to throw to. It's funny, weren't you the one preaching about being patient with the process?

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Tom Brady has won Super Bowls with...

Troy Brown
David Patten
Dieon Branch
David Givens


We need receivers, for sure. But you don't need great receivers to win.

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You are cherry picking your stats in the worst possible way.... Colt McCoy had 20 attempts at the point we went down 21-3 which is when you sort of conclude that the game was over and the Steelers stopped playing defense.. not 30 for 150 yards.. 20 for 150....

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42 Pass attempts? What game did you watch? No wonder you have such a bad impression of McCoy. You didn't watch him play. He only attempted 33 passes.....


23-33 for 281 yds 69.7% 1 td 2Int 80.5 rating

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True or False: QB is the single biggest reason for our lacknof success since the return.

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False.

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Then what is it? The offensive line? C'mon now...

Nothing ruins a season like poor QB play.

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still strange as I counted from 42 pass attempts backwards the 1st time counting since he had 33 pass attempts, sacked 5 times and scrambled 4 times, that's 42, right?

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However, the line still represents pretty much what I saw: 23 attempts, 150yds, 1 INT, 3 sacks in 54 meaningful minutes...as I said: meh

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As I said.. not much different than Sam Bradfords first $60 million start against the stout Arizona Cardinals defense... maybe the Rams should have pulled Bradford and hoped to draft Luck next year..

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Django is right on this one. He is counting pass plays (not attempts). so, you have to add in the 5 sacks and the scrambles (that would be 4 scrambles if 42 pass plays is correct).

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Actually, he's wrong.

No one ever counts passing statistics that way.

It is a ridiculous argument created with the sole intent of trying to make the QB look his worst.

I challenge anyone to find a legitimate source that says "Oh, the QB threw the ball 20 times completed 15 ..... was sacked 5 times and scrambled 5 times ..... so he completed 50% of his pass plays.

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I challenge anyone to find a legitimate source that says "Oh, the QB threw the ball 20 times completed 15 ..... was sacked 5 times and scrambled 5 times ..... so he completed 50% of his pass plays.

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That would make Elway's career completion % not nearly as good, eh?

Forget django, he's being ridiculous. And I don't know if django is one of those who keeps whining about Marc Sanchez, all I can say is Colt looked better yesterday than Sanchez did in any game I saw him play in 2009.
I don't even care when Colt completed the bulk of his passes either. I don't give a damn about that, it's a foolish argument because I know what I saw from a guy in his 1st game as an NFL quarterback: poise, deadly accuracy, guts and leadership.
Now maybe it won't last, I certainly haven't procliamed him our franchise QB for the next 12 years, but to someone else's question: if I was Mangini and needed a QB to win a game for me right now, I'd give the ball to #12 and tell Wallace to grab some pine.
Colt already is a better QB than Seneca. When did Seneca even throw a 20-plus yard pass, let alone complete one?

Strap on tight guys, we're about to find out over the next few weeks if we have a viable long-term starter at the controls in Cleveland.
Go, Kid!

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Find me one reputable stat keeping group that counts a sack or a scramble as an attempt...

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But if you are counting drop backs then why not count his 22 rushing yards toward his total yards? Why.. because you are using the stats in the most negative way possible..

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Did you know that the Steelers have only given up 15 pass plays over 20 yards in 5 games and Colt threw 4 of them

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As I said.. not much different than Sam Bradfords first $60 million start against the stout Arizona Cardinals defense... maybe the Rams should have pulled Bradford and hoped to draft Luck next year..

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Who cares about Bradford? He's a Ram, he's their "problem"...McCoy is ours...I still owuld have drafted Bradford at 7 though because he's a much better QB prospect than McCoy was...and every NFL team agreed 3 times in April on that

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I don't give a damn about that, it's a foolish argument because I know what I saw from a guy in his 1st game as an NFL quarterback: poise, deadly accuracy, guts and leadership.

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You forgot 0 points but who cares right? It's the Golden Hobbit, yay

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Colt already is a better QB than Seneca.

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I don't agree.

passing % shouldn't include it as an attempt (that's silly), but I agree that when you are looking at "yards per pass play" you should include all yardage (including from runs, minus out the sacks) and include all dropbacks.

it's the best overall indicator for how well you do per play when you pass.

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When did Seneca even throw a 20-plus yard pass, let alone complete one?

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I didn't get to see the game.

Did McCoy throw off his back foot most of the day? If so, then he still has a major weakness, that he had in college (which caused him to drop to the 3rd), and that he will definately have to correct if he is EVER going to be a successful NFL Quarterback!

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Only when he needed to, say on a screen when there was a defender right in his face. For most of the day, he was throwing off his front foot and putting the ball where it needed to be with good speed.

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Another very important problem that he had in college was he had a weak arm and threw the ball poorly (yet accurately). Is that still evident? If so, then he will have to correct it if he is ever going to be a successful NFL Quarterback.

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Sometimes, but he was fitting balls into NFL windows. The only time I noticed flutter on his ball was on a deep route to Moore near the sideline. His deep out needs SOME work, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in the pre-season or college.

that's not an issue with me as he was throwing on the run.

Let's put it this way, it was evident someone had worked with him on improving arm strength.

that's speculation

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There are conflicting interpretations of how McCoy looked. As in history, sometimes the negative outlook is a lot more revealing.

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Django is being overly negative on McCoy. He did not look shaken, nor did he throw bad balls. Not at all, in fact.

Django also hit on some aspects of McCoy that others aren't talking about, such as the happy feat, not always going through his reads, holding the ball too long at times and sometimes being too quick to get rid of the ball.


I think you have to expect that with any rookie.
Bradford looked like he had happy feet in pre-season too.

I don't have a problem with Colt taking off and running when he doesn't see anything developing.

His 1st responsibility as the field general is to put his team in manageable down and distance.
In keeping with the schedule to put your self in a manageable 3rd down is to make positive yards, at least 3 yards on 1st and 2nd down will put you in at least a 3rd and 6 yards to go for a 1st down.
Any more and your odds are not very high.

Colt ran just enough I thought to at least stay on schedule.
We had only (one) 3 and out.

Did BQ ever do that in a game?
Seeing how everyone is trying to draw conclusions from one of BQ good game.

I never had a good feeling about BQ after any game he started. Not one, not ever.
He never looked like he 'got it' and never looked like he was in charge.
I can't hit the broad side of the barn even now.


The thing is, I would say 90% of what McCoy did yesterday is correctable with experience and repetition. The other 10%, like his deep out throw...yeah, that may be his weakness in the future

However, McCoy's ability yesterday to keep plays alive, to allow plays to develop *most of the time*, and his accuracy were outstanding, even more so when you consider it was his first game of his NFL career against the Steelers. The most important thing I saw was that he did not try and force it like a rookie would do. There may have been a throw in the first quarter, his first pick, where he may have forced it, but from then on he looked like an NFL QB. Hell, he even threw the ball away, something Frye, Quinn or Anderson NEVER learned.

This coming Sunday will be the truest test of his skills yet. There is tape, he has to read adjustments and beat the defense.

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Colt looked like he was having fun out their Sunday.

He was pointing giving directions, changing the snap count and showing nice ball skills.

Does he still need work?
Yes, but weather he starts when either veteran QB is healthy is not as important as the experience he will gain from any time he will get this season in the saddle.

This is really a bonus for Colt and the Browns.

I am not buying the tape on him is going to change anything, because the Steelers did not hold anything back.

Colt made some good hot reads. The problem was he either had no time or did not get much help from his receiver. One such play comes to mind when Colt went to Robiskie and he could not come up with a catch.

You know I did saw the game too. so those of you who would tell fairy tales here to suit your agenda

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Oh my...he does nothing the shorter the field for most of the game, completes some passes and everybody gets their panties wet....that's how low the Browns fan expectations have fallen

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I think what happened is that regardless of mechanics, regardless of anything anyone has said be it you, me the talking heads or anyone on the board, the kid threw accurate passes. That alone was a joy to see.

Maybe it was only for one NFL game in his life, but I really liked seeing balls not thrown into the dirt, behind the receiver, over their heads or out of bounds unintentionally. I don't care where you're from you gotta give him that. He pretty much put the ball where it could be caught.



And I totally get where you're coming from with the "drop backs". It just got confused by some as meaning "attempts", in which case they're right, no one stats attempts that way. You weren't doing it either.

Announcer: "McCoy drops back to pass... ... and he's sacked at the 38 yard line!"

DawgTalker: "That doesn't count as an attempt."

Django: "No, but it does count as a drop back."

DawgTalker: "You're buh buh."



I wish I could help you man, I really do. But his throws were a lot like Mangini winning out last season. The kid saved us from being embarrassed. 'Cause even though we got our asses handed to us, Colt was not embarrassing. I mean, it wasn't 41-0 with 8 sacks and 3 INT's in our house. We already lived that with one rookie vs. the Steelers for a Christmas present.





Oh, and just to feed the fire (if I could only find a way to fan the flames )...

Rookie QB is real McCoy as leader

By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sports writer

POSTED: 10:28 p.m. EDT, Oct 17, 2010

PITTSBURGH: Colt McCoy left the locker room in round-toe cowboy boots, not the plastic one that has become the preferred footwear of fellow Browns quarterbacks Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace.

Considering he'd just wrestled some steers otherwise known as the Pittsburgh Steelers and an angry bull in linebacker James Harrison, the fact that McCoy emerged upright from his NFL debut was stunning in itself.

But just as surprising was that McCoy walked out of Heinz Field with his poise and confidence intact after a 28-10 loss. So much so that left guard Eric Steinbach lauded the rookie for having the ''it'' factor and seemed ready to follow him for the rest of the season, if not the rest of his career.

''You can tell he's a natural-born leader,'' Steinbach said. ''It's good to have him in the huddle. A lot of rookies can't come in right away. They might want to be a leader, but he's got that 'it.' If he's our guy from here on out and we can build off what we started. . .we'll be all right.''

McCoy's numbers — 23-of-33 for 281 yards and a touchdown with two interceptions and an 80.5 rating — were inflated by the Browns' final possession. McCoy completed 4-of-5 for 58 yards in a drive that ended at the Steeler 29 as time expired.

He admitted he should have had three interceptions, the other on a hitch to Brian Robiskie that was broken up by linebacker LaMarr Woodley. McCoy said that ball was probably a completion for the University of Texas, but not against the Steelers, who are ''really fast and really good.''

Just as telling was how McCoy handled his first interception, off tight end Ben Watson's hands and into those of safety Ryan Clark with 11:12 left in the first quarter. With offensive coordinator Brian Daboll ready to attack, McCoy threw into tight coverage and paid for it.

But he said he came back to the huddle, told his offensive line it had given him great protection and moved on.

''I [said] 'It's over. We got one, it's just like a punt, let's get the ball back and keep working,' '' McCoy said. ''For the most part, it's just shaking that off. It's not easy to do, even now. We did and kept moving.''

Even though he absorbed five sacks and was hit four more times, McCoy seemed to grow stronger as the game went on. He stood in the pocket in the face of the ever-blitzing Steelers and even drew praise from their architect, hall of fame defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau. He wasn't afraid to throw over the middle. He scrambled out of trouble. His targets went all-out for him, especially after receivers Joshua Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi were knocked out of the game with head injuries at the hands (and helmet) of Harrison.

The son of a high school football coach, McCoy even worked with center Alex Mack to change the Browns' snap counts on every play and proudly pointed out that twice they got the Steelers to jump offsides. The Browns may not have had another rookie quarterback since 1999 with such clarity in his debut.

Browns fans have been smitten before. Brady Quinn's first start in a losing effort against the Denver Broncos in 2008 also drew good reviews. But there was no escaping the comparison to rookie Charlie Frye's game against the Steelers in 2005, a 41-0 drubbing. A third-round pick from the University of Akron, Frye was sacked eight times and fumbled four, losing one.

There was no doubt that McCoy's poise set him above those who preceded him.

''At no point during the week did I think this was too big for him and at no point during the game did I feel that way, either,'' coach Eric Mangini said.

And Mangini wasn't the only one. Running back Peyton Hillis knows McCoy's background at Texas, where he set the NCAA record for victories with 45, and at Tuscola, Texas, High School, where McCoy went 34-2.

''He's been leading all these teams his whole life to titles, so he knows how to manage a team,'' Hillis said. ''Once a winner, always a winner, I always say. I really look forward to him to bring that here with us.''

Even Steelers coach Mike Tomlin was complimentary.

''I'm sure they're excited about him. They should be,'' Tomlin said. ''He showed some innate things that are quarterback things.''

He showed some more in Saturday night's team meeting.

''When he talked to the team, he stands up and looks everybody in the eye,'' tight end Evan Moore said. ''Most guys sit down. That's the kind of leader he is.''

Asked what he said, McCoy responded like a true Texan.

''I told them the hay was in the barn,'' he said. ''Just meant we worked really hard all week and we were prepared and we had a good game plan.''

And did he have to translate like he did for the media?

''Some of the city folk, I had to,'' he said.

Mangini wasn't ready to commit to McCoy for next week's road game against the defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints.

''We'll see what our quarterback situation is next week before I can even say that,'' Mangini said.

But with the Browns 1-5 and the Saints, New England Patriots and New York next up, the latter two after an Oct. 31 bye, handing the reins to McCoy — until Delhomme and Wallace are healthy or even for the rest of the season — makes sense. What's to be gained by playing 35-year-old Delhomme or 30-year-old Wallace, especially when McCoy seemed more than ready for the Steelers' defense, perhaps the truest test of all?

President Mike Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert need to find out whether they have a quarterback of the future before they draft another one. And perhaps the hay is already in the barn.

Ohio.com

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I wouldn't have drafted McCoy to begin with...but if I would have inherited him I would develop him as my system backup QB...I would start Wallace or Delhomme if 100% healthy...if both aren't then McCoy

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Geez Phil I was exaggerating to make a point.

I loved how you pulled that one thing from my post. Anal-rententive much??

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Hey, just answering your question.

Seriously, though ... if Wallace is healthy, I'd look to him to start.

Nothing against McCoy ... but a) Wallace gives us a better chance to win and b) IF Colt has any possibility of being a viable starting QB (which I doubt, though he did do much better than I thought), now is not the time to find out.

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a) Wallace gives us a better chance to win and

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a) Wallace gives us a better chance to win and

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Believe me I didn't want McCoy to play in 2010 except maybe in some mop-up, but I'm no longer sure Seneca gives us a better chance to win.

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Sometimes, but he was fitting balls into NFL windows. The only time I noticed flutter on his ball was on a deep route to Moore near the sideline. His deep out needs SOME work, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in the pre-season or college.

that's not an issue with me as he was throwing on the run.

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Sometimes, but he was fitting balls into NFL windows. The only time I noticed flutter on his ball was on a deep route to Moore near the sideline. His deep out needs SOME work, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in the pre-season or college.

that's not an issue with me as he was throwing on the run.

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That's not the throw I was talking about. In fact, that throw as an NFL throw, a throw that very few people can make.

What I was talking about was a wide open post towards the sideline and McCoy flutter balled it out to Moore and almost floated it too much. Moore made a great catch and kept it in bounds.

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I wouldn't have drafted McCoy to begin with...but if I would have inherited him I would develop him as my system backup QB...I would start Wallace or Delhomme if 100% healthy...if both aren't then McCoy

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