DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Time to make a change...again

This team has no rudder and we do not have the parts or tools to install a rudder if we had one. No workable plan, no fire, no chance.

Palmer, Davis, and now Romeo.

Holding on to Romeo at this point would be as useful as giving Palmer one more year?or Davis one more year. Continuity? Not in these cases. He is done.

He is in over his head and has lost this team. The smoke and mirrors that has been so gallantly displayed at times this year is just that?smoke and mirrors.

Other coaches inherit a mess and make something out of it. We?ve now got the after-Thanksgiving HOME debacle against the Bengals to add to the Christmas Eve HOME debacle against the Steelers.

Yes, Frye was awful today?yes, our O-Line was pathetic today?yes, this team has no direction.

We can get a new QB and a better O-Line?but RAC is not presently an NFL head coach. I wish it weren't so, but I've seen it all too many times now.

Time to get ready to pull the plug and get ready for next year.

Just to make a short counterpoint.....If Palmer was given 1 more year...LaDanian Tomlinson would be a Brown.

You forgot to mention that the RBs couldn't run or block.

[color:"white"]These are the posts that occur when unrealistic expectations are allowed to fester.

We are starting dime backs and street free agents as our starting corners while a safety is playing nickel back. They can't be expected to stop the passing attack of the Bengals. Meanwhile, the run defense was AWESOME today.

On offense, it's simple: Fix the line and you fix the rest of the problems. [/color]

True, but I had to stop somewhere.

Had we kept Palmer, we'd have LT but we would presently be enjoying RAC's first year honeymoon instead of second year train-wreck...thinking maybe HE will be the guy.

toad, you deserve post of the year for this. some level headed thinking.

this is the one game this year we just folded, and there are CLEAR things to fix, and unrealistic expectations are getting jumpy.

i do however have a problem with his control of the team as far as this crap with edwards.

I agree completely...and still say it's time for a change.

In any event, Savage botched up the O-Line, other than LCB, and Romeo let Mo stick around too long to salvage this season. RAC has made poor decisions when we DID have a chance to win and is absolutely lost on gameday.

RAC is not providing direction and making this team better. Savage gets a pass for now, but he better come up with something this offseason.

Maybe it's not fair, but it is what it is.

[color:"white"]I agree about Edwards. Romeo better punish him good and hard for that outburst. He allready had a closed-door meeting with him. Boy, that really sent the message <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

If Crennel doesn't sit on him over this, he'll lose the team, which hasn't happened yet.

As for the outburst, someone is going to take this the wrong way, which will be unfortunate for them, but Frye needed to standup and take control of that situation. HE'S supposed to be the leader of this offense. HE needs to put Edwards in his place and not turn away like a kid being pushed around by a bully. That's the right thing to do on the playground. It's not the right thing to do when you're trying to prove you're the leader of the team. I'm not saying he should have punched a few of Bray's pearly whites to the turf, but he got punked by a guy who's turned into TO Junior. Frye has to grow up and grow up quickly when that crap happens. As for Edwards, again, he needs to be benched for the 1st quarter of next weeks game or RAC will lose everyone's respect. If that happens, we might as well fire him now and be done with it. [/color]

I agree to a point. I really think the OL problems are more than players; I think its more of a poor scheme than anything. Don't get me wrong, I think we need some more talent but I think a better scheme would help more than new players. Plus our backs and QB are not the best; I see Frye point out the blitz at times, only to hold the ball and get sacked by the guy he points out. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> And how many times do our backs whiff on a blitzer?

Also why don't we ever do quick three step drops and quick slants?

Totally agree; I said the same thing in the chat room; Frye just ignored him and it made him look weak and not in control.

I couldn't agree less Willie,,, Like Toad says a little bit down the line here, it's expectations that are causing these reactions,,

Myself, I figured no better than 8-8,,,, I was wrong and as it turns out, too optimistic,,, Hard to figure that but it's true.

Oh, Toad, Charlie is the leader of the offense, but he did the right thing by turning away from Braylon Edwards..... On the sidelines during a game isn't the time or place for that kinda crap,,, he obviously understood that and didn't react to Edwards....

Edwards needs spanked big time for his actions,,, I don't care what his reasons were, I don't care if he was right or wrong,,, his actions at that moment in time were out of line,,,,

[color:"white"]I'm all for a west coast offense based on 3 and 5 step drops. Problem is our line is so bad not even that will work much.

As far as not picking up the blitzes go, yeah, something is wrong. Either the line doesn't get it, or the coaching doesn't.

When it comes to picking up the blitz, Droughns knows what he's doing. Harrison doesn't have a clue, and I haven't had enough time to see if Wright gets it. I did see him pick up one blitz today, but I thought I saw him blow a different one.

Here's the issue. Good line's can block 5 rushers with 5 linemen. We can't, and it shows. They simply aren't powerful or atheletic enough.[/color]

Agreed

I would rebut that with Az... Their line is JUST as bad as ours if not worse.. They pull off the WCO pretty decently... Of course their QB is better than ours as well..

Spooky, I agree. I think this line needs to be upgraded, yet I also feel like it is good enough to win with.

Poor coaching (scheme, strategy, game plan, etc.) + below average qb play = bad results.

If the coaching and the qb play were improved, the line would look above average.

Problem is that our QB doesn't read so much as his 2nd progression now. He'd be totally lost in an offense that requires as many as 5 reads on a single play.

[color:"white"] Romeo better punish him good and hard for that outburst. [/color]

something should be done, but i for one am glad it happened.
it's wrong to do, but it seems that this is the only way to get something done around here. charlie is not the answer and never will be in this town, and until the natives get restless we'll still continue to go with him. we have absolutely no one to replace him, but what does it really take to lose a game 30 - 0 against a cinci D?
i'm glad it happened ....... now maybe the staff will see that the team's getting aggrivated and not just a bunch of nobodies on a message board. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I guess McNabb must be a kid also becuase TO did the same thing to him

And may I add, the last ranked, 32 out of 32, pass defense in the entire NFL. Worse than every joke of a team you can think of. They stink! Until today. Our QB made them look like a collection of Hall of Famers.

Frye needed to take a cue from Manning today, he should have REAMED OUT the o-line. Starting by smacking all of them in the head. I agree, it is time for Frye to man-up. HE should have looked Edwards in the eye and said "Remember how you lost us the Saints game? Remember when I trusted you to make a play in the Denver game and you dropped it on the 4? Sit down, shut your mouth and start playing the game or I'll punch you in the throat."

[color:"white"] Sit down, shut your mouth and start playing the game or I'll punch you in the throat."
[/color]

he would stare it down for 12 seconds and edwards would have plenty of time to duck.

Read the quote...I didn't call him a kid or anything else. I said he looked weak and not in control...
But since you brought it up, yes, just like McNabb, who I consider a poor leader.

To all those that think that they KNOW that Charlie isn't the answer, I want to lead you to this link.,....

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ElwaJo00.htm

Go look at Elways first year to year and a half and tell me how much worse Charlie is than he was..

Then do me a really big favor and tell me that you believe the Browns are a much better team today than the Broncos were back then..

Here's one that will tickle everyone:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/BradTe00.htm

Now this might be a more realistic comparison in that the Steelers were pretty much a horrible team during Bradshaws first couple of years...

Look, I'm not one to stand on Stats and say,,,,,, "see, I told you so" That's not really my style,, But look at two of the better QB's to have played the game and you will see that anything is possible.

Now, ask me if I think that Charlie Frye is the next Elway or Bradshaw?.. No, I don't think so, but then again, I'm not saying he's the next Paul McDonald or Cliff Stoudt either!

Or Couch....lol
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/CoucTi00.htm

He looks lost, and its really his second year. At least he didn't cry <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"] Now, ask me if I think that Charlie Frye is the next Elway or Bradshaw?.. No, I don't think so[/color]


well quit comparing him to them then. i KNOW what the hell i'm seeing out there every friggin week. put your stat book down during game time and maybe you can see what others are seeing.
maybe you can show braylon your stats......... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Many Denver and Steelers fans said the same thing about the 2 guys above.

[color:"white"] Many Denver and Steelers fans said the same thing about the 2 guys above. [/color]

because of where they were drafted. they had HUGE expectations. this is kinda what we've expected outa chuck. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But then again .... he well might be. That's OK though. He might develop into a capable backup, and there's nothing wrong with that.

There are plenty of examples of QBs who have had rough starts and developed .... others who didn't ..... and others who showed promise before ultimately busting out.

This time, let's actually build an o-line, get a real RB and get a PROVEN VETERAN OC WHO WILL ACTUALLY TRY RUNNING THE BALL, before we hang the QB.

I don't know about the rest of you but I really don't want to see our QB and WR throwing fists on the sideline while the team is getting their ass kicked. Charlie did the right thing, but should get this crap straighten out in the clubhouse after the game. I think Charlie was pissed because Edwards cut his routes short.

we can hang all weaknesses except the QB?

If you were to build a house, would you do the foundation or the upstairs first? If your boss says "build the upstairs first." Is it your fault when it falls apart?

We better keep romeo or else in another two years---ITS NEW COACH TIME.

Twice this year Frye has had a running game.

NYJ - 125 yds for Droughns on 33 carries - Frye 15-22 for 141 yds 1 TD 1 int - Browns win.

Oakland - 100 yds - 25 carries for Droughns - Frye 22-32 for 192 3 TDs and 2 ints. Browns win.

86.4 rating in those games combined. We get a running game - an o-line and we got a QB

Oh for cryin out loud Knox,,, calm down already,,,,

My only point in all of this is that the fans of the Broncos and Steelers of those eras, all wanted those two guys cut, tossed out to the curb with the garbage,, kicked out of town,,,,,run out of town on a rail,,

I think it just shows you what fans really know <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and for the poster that brought up Couch,,,,shame on you,,, Don't you know that isn't allowed... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> But since you did, his stats are better than Bradshaws and Elways and look where that got him...LOL That'll teach ya. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"] If you were to build a house, would you do the foundation or the upstairs first? If your boss says "build the upstairs first." Is it your fault when it falls apart?
[/color]

funny you should use this anology.
since this is what i do, i can honestly say that i have returned material before the building started. the upstairs parts no less. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
i know we build the foundation 1st. that's a no brainer that i have never disputed. with FA and the draft coming up, how would a QB change hinder the foundation building any way? you mean outa 10-15 new faces we're gonna see this coming spring, at least ONE of them can't be a better QB?

Our only playoff appearance since our return. Oh, did I say that out loud or did I just think it? <img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" />

Frye is actually making me nostalgic for the days of "He whose name shall not be spoken aloud". <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

oh those were the days........ <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

Because we don't know what we have in Frye without the OL and such. So why throw Frye aside when we don't know what we have? Let's say we get Schaub and a great OL and RB. Let's say Frye plays amazing and beats out Schaub who came in thinking he was going to be starter - what's that do to the locker room?