DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum McCoy as Starter, Part Two

In those situations they don't say anything...LOL

But we have heard several stories about the it factor and the leadership of Colt McCoy from the players. I didn't see those pieces when Senneca took over...it was more about his arm (this doesn't mean they did not respect Senneca either we just did not see the other kind)...The stories I have seen have been the kind showing that the players are impressed with McCoy.

Does that mean they have chosen to follow him.????..Beats the Heck Outta Me....lol No it does not mean that by any means...But we have seen several stories that have shown that Colt has earned the respect and trust of these guys....something that Quinn, Anderson and many of the others before them only sort of had or didn't have at all...

But as I said before...as outsiders there is no way we can determine who that team WANTS to follow....But I think that is an important attribute to consider if all QB's are healthy.

That's the way I see it,,

Except for the last part,,, I don't think he was trying to force it, I think he was already in motion to throw it and it was too late to pull it back,,,, But be that as it may,, at least you saw the defender with his mitts on Jakes Leg...

And it's JAKE not Jack.....

Pete, I agree with you. It's hard to be a leader if no one will follow.

One of the things that bothers me about Wallace is his action re: his protective boot. He said that he threw it away. For me, the implication is that he did not wait to receive medical clearance before "throwing it away." One of the things mentioned by many of the posters was that McCoy should continue to start until Delhomme and/ro Wallace is 100% . At first I thought it was a great macho thing Wallace did. But as I have thought about it, that was a stupid thing to do -- and you don't look for stupidity from your starting qb. Maybe that's why he has never been #1. His actions were the difference-maker in my decision.

Colt should be the sarter for the remainder of the season,

Defender comes off the right side, JT pushes him to the ground behind Jake, pressure then comes up the middle, Jake's momentum is going backwards as defender grabs his ankle, he flings pass sidearm, int...

Here's what bothers me about it, the guy was covered anyway. It was 1st and 10 with 42 seconds left in the half and we were on about their 40 already leading by 11.... There was absolutely NO NEED to do anything risky at all at that point. We needed 10 more yards for a reasonable FG chance and we had plenty of time and plenty of downs to do it.. it was an "instinctive" reaction to wing it out as the pressure got there and he was falling backwards and he threw it into coverage... all factors considered it was a bad decision.

agreed, he should have just taken the sack or thrown it out of bounds... If he had time to do so.. like I said, it almost looked like him getting tripped up caused the ball to go off course.. damn, its hard to tell

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like I said, it almost looked like him getting tripped up caused the ball to go off course..

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That's the thing, I don't know that it was "off course".. the Browns had 2 guys in the area, which is a problem by itself.. but from little we can see, I don't see where an on-balance throw could have been completed.

The Colt McCoy campaign isn't a winner (right now) for the Cleveland Browns

Published: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 5:39 PM Updated: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 5:40 PM
Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The old saying that no one is more popular than the backup quarterback doesn't apply to this town.

In Cleveland in 2010, no one is more popular than the backup to the backup quarterback.

It may just be the incessant procession of campaign ads leaving me dazed and confused, but I believe in the last week Colt McCoy has become the people's choice for Senate, Congress, Attorney General and Browns' starting quarterback.

Look, applaud him. McCoy deserves it. Be excited about his future.

Just don't tell me on Nov. 1, coming off a win over the defending Super Bowl champs, that this Browns' season is suddenly secondary to Colt McCoy's development.

Haven't we been here before?

He has shown accuracy. He has shown poise in two of the toughest places to play, Pittsburgh and New Orleans. If Jake Delhomme or Seneca Wallace is ready to play and it's my call, I show McCoy the sideline and tell him to stay ready.

My best guess is that Eric Mangini will do just that. Not because he needs to win to keep his job. Because he's the coach of a team that clearly thinks it's better than its record, having been in every game in the fourth quarter.

You don't send the message coming off the greatest high of the season that November and December will now be dedicated to "finding out" about a rookie quarterback.

The season wasn't about McCoy when it started. In fact, he wasn't going to play at all. So based on two games, one against the Saints in which he was limited to a custodial role, he's got to take every snap the rest of the season? Makes no sense.

Two things I'm not sure I've ever seen before:

1) A groundswell for a rookie quarterback coming off a 74-yard passing performance.

2) A town so starved for a winner so seemingly willing to delay its gratification yet again.

If the Browns believe he gives them the best chance in 2010, they should play him. That's the only reason to play him. It's just difficult to imagine how they can think that's the case.

Does Mike Holmgren have to know about McCoy this season so he can decide whether to pursue a franchise quarterback at the top of next year's draft? Holmgren's past is not exactly littered with quarterbacks taken at the top of the draft anyway, and he's done well enough crafting potent offenses.

The Browns were more than willing to go into next year's draft without a shred of 2010 information on McCoy. Sitting him the whole season was the plan. Why should it be different now? Because McCoy conducted himself well in Pittsburgh and New Orleans?

All these lost years after the Browns' rebirth in 1999, the team hasn't found a quarterback. I get that. It also hasn't done much winning. In the past couple of seasons, it's set offensive football back a half century.

The idea behind getting Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace is still valid. This offense has a long way to go in its evolutionary process. They were judged more capable of directing that growth than Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn, let alone a third-round rookie draft pick.

The only reason to change the opinion on that is injury. Delhomme still appears hurt. If Wallace is healthy, he should start against New England.

The Browns should believe they can build on the New Orleans game and keep winning.

My guess is Eric Mangini approves this message.

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Logical article.

Yep. I would expect that Mangini would play either Wallace or Delhomme over McCoy if they are ready to go. I would also expect McCoy to understand the decision. He is the third string QB on this team (for now) and he still has plenty to learn. I just hope Mangini has learned his lesson about playing either SW or JD at anything less than 100%. These guys just aren't good enough to warrant them playing hurt over a healthy CM.

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I just hope Mangini has learned his lesson about playing either SW or JD at anything less than 100%. These guys just aren't good enough to warrant them playing hurt over a healthy CM.

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Bingo.

Thanks for the read Shep..

I read this yesterday online,, I don't think Bud gives us enough credit.

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Two things I'm not sure I've ever seen before:

1) A groundswell for a rookie quarterback coming off a 74-yard passing performance.

2) A town so starved for a winner so seemingly willing to delay its gratification yet again.

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I've neither seen a groundswell of support for McCoy or anyone willing to delay winning to find out if Colt is the real deal or not.

I mean, yeah, there are a few, but a Groundswell? Hmm,, no.

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The Browns were more than willing to go into next year's draft without a shred of 2010 information on McCoy. Sitting him the whole season was the plan. Why should it be different now? Because McCoy conducted himself well in Pittsburgh and New Orleans?

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I've been of the opinion that if either of the other guys is capable, they should start... I'm sticking to that..

jc

People are saying that Wallace gives us a better chance to win than Colt. That is taken as a given, but I am not so sure.

Sure Wallace may produce the most passing yards but being a Qb is more than that.

1st - I want a Qb that is a winner and doesn't lose games for us.

JD - record as a starter 0-1, # of games lost because of stupid JD decisions 1 of 1 (TB).
SW - record as a starter 1-3, # of games lost because of stupid SW decisions 1 of 3 (KC).
CM - record as a starter 1-1, # of games lost because of stupid CM decisions 0 of 1.

2nd - I want a Qb that makes those around him better.

This is very subjective, but it feel like the Browns players rally behind CM. I never got that feeling about SW. Difficult to tell with Jake given his limited game time. It seems to me as if the players wanted to follow Jake but never really believed (though some of that could be my bias slipping in - I wanted Jake to revive his career but just couldn't fully believe in him).

Does Mike Holmgren have to know about McCoy this season so he can decide whether to pursue a franchise quarterback at the top of next year's draft? Holmgren's past is not exactly littered with quarterbacks taken at the top of the draft anyway, and he's done well enough crafting potent offenses.



Here's my response to this question.
U go into the draft and U see what good QB's are there when you select .
In the first round I'm looking at fixing my Dline/WR/Secondary...
Now if a franchise QB is there,you've got to take him,otherwise you wait till second/third again.
But I do not advocate trading up to get one in the top half of the draft..I don't want to give up draft picks when we need every one .
But no QB will be successful until the Browns get some solid WR's.

So in this instance you don't need to play McCoy( until the Browns are mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs )to see what he has,this isn't the same situation as had existed in previous years.

I know they were "evaluated" 1-2-3 in preseason, but Wallace is really the only known quantity. He is somewhere between an avg to slightly-below-avg QB. JD is a complete question mark as to whether he can still return to his old form or if he's toast.

CM is still a work in progress. However, he is a lot less raw than he was in training camp. IMO there is a real question as to whether he or Wallace is the better QB, right now. There seem to be some passes that Wallace just can't make, his game is limited. So is Colt's, but his limits are decreasing with every snap.

I'm not so sure that starting McCoy is "abandoning" the season. None of the three is a clear-cut "winner" at this point, it's a pretty close call, assuming JD is still injured.

I was in the "let Colt play" camp. But the Bud article and a few of your comments swayed me.

If Seneca or Jake is 100% healthy, sit Colt.

What's more important? Play a rookie that isnt ready so we know whether or not we need to draft one next year??? Or Letting a more seasoned QB start and the way this team has been playing... THEY ARE LEARNING HOW TO WIN and how to play hard all 4 qtrs.

Us learning how to win and finding our identity will benefit whoever is at QB. NO QB will be good here until we atleast give him one threat at WR.

I would of liked to have Colt get experience this year and grow. The team does seem to have confidence in him. He hasn't lit it up or played like a turnover prone rookie either. Let Next year be his year. The Kid is a winner.

Jets almost made it to the Superbowl last year without a QB because they played D... ran the ball... and managed the offense. If we look like the jets in 2 years I say Keep Mangini. And we off to a good start... imho

As crazy as it sounds, we will play many of the teams ahead of us in the playoff race, so we do have a chance .......

We play Pittsburgh, Baltimore, the Jets, Jacksonville, Miami, and New England. That's 6 potential playoff teams ...... and I don't see any of them that we can't beat. New York and Pittsburgh both showed some weakness offensively this weekend. I think that the Browns can use their newfound defensive deception to good use when they play QBs like Brady who relies on pre-snap reads a lot .... and Roethlisberger and Sanchez who can both be confused into big mistakes. I see Baltimore, Jacksonville, and Miami as beatable. (as far as potential playoff rivals)

The balance of the schedule is Carolina, @ Buffalo, and @ Cincinnati. These are 3 winnable games as well.

Really, we are in our toughest stretch right now. @ Pittsburgh, @ New Orleans, New England and New York Jets is a killer stretch no matter who you are. However, if we can get 1 of the 2 upcoming games, we could be 2-2 against the toughest part of the schedule.

If we can do that, and barring a rash of injuries, we could possible get to 9-7 with a few breaks. With the way the NFL is breaking right now ...... that well might be enough to grab a playoff spot.

Good thing we only play one game at a time.

Just knock off one, then do it again next week.

j/c

I don't see where JD or SW give us any "better chance of winning" than does CM.

At the moment, I'd call it a toss-up.

The kid appears to have the mental toughness to handle it...and...gives us every bit the chance to be successful.

I'd start him until he shows that he cannot do the job.

Some new Mangini quotes on the team site. Basically Wallace is ahead of Jake, he may practice Wednesday, he may not. Said CM gives them some ability to rest the other two, and neither CM nor SW made him look for another option.

It's a close call, JD isn't ready, Wallace isn't either. Game three for the kid.

Maybe they finally put Carlton Mitchell in, too.

No they don't, they talk about the playoffs..

instigator....

He's right..

Remember that Mangini likes to play the "Guess who I'm starting at QB" game, so even if Wallace is able to play and Mangini is counting on him to play this week........I still think we will get the "it depends on who is healthy" line.

My personal opinion is that if Wallace is 100%, even if he isn't a full participant in practice Wednesday, he should be our starter. Colt can be the #2.

Most of us entered the yr. saying that we wanted Colt to sit the whole yr., I think we should stick to that plan for as long as we can.

True, but I think with Wallace not seeing the field today that he still is not 100%. Hopefully he'll at least be able to practice Wednesday so we can see if he'll be affective or not.

I'm of the mindset right now that if Wallace or Jake is 100% then they are the starters... if not than I'm ok with Colt playing.

We'll see...

I think the advantage to playing Delhomme or Wallace over Colt McCoy is that they have a better feel for the game. Delhomme for sure because he actually looks for his #1 and #2 WR's...

i know Colt looked good against the Steelers and Saints... but I really worry about him against the Jets and Pats defenses... especially the Jets....

From Peter King's MMQB:

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There were between 15 and 20 NFL scouts at the First Draft Choice Bowl Saturday night in Seattle -- Andrew Luck of Stanford versus Jake Locker of Washington. As I mentioned earlier, Luck outplayed Locker badly and the Cardinal won in a rout, 41-0.

One team took the unusual step of having two scouts in attendance: Cleveland.

Play well while the floor is yours, Colt McCoy. Play very well.

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Colt has the highest completion percentage and the highest yards per attempt and a better TD:INT ration... than Jake... and he played much better competition.

I keep going back to the fact that I haven't seen anything in either of Colt's starts where I thought, "Wow, Jake or Seneca would have made that play." I just haven't seen it.

Hi, Damanshot. Kind of sharing your opinion. Given where we are, Colt is healthiest and shown he is adequate and has won as many as the other two. Start him; if it buys another week to heal, fine. Chances of re-injury are better for Seneca and Jake for the post-bye run. Kind of believe that the older they are, the harder they fall is true for Jake. Favre is no healing machine. Can use more than one if Gini feels it is different that way. What does the kid have to do to earn the nod? Worth a go; time to get healthy as possible is what is needed IMO. And I haven't seen much the other two have done except lose. I have no expectation that they would have done better versus the Pitts or Saints.

Same here DC.
Play the kid, McCoy is the QB who gives us the best chance to win IMO.

I don't really think it matters that much and as such, might as well give the kid some experience. If we had a real receiving corp then possibly I would favor Delhomme but at this point anyone of them can hand off to Hillis and throw a 10 yard out to Stuckey.