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I can't help but think that our defense is very close to being a top unit in the league, we just need a few pieces to the puzzle. Of course, the pieces might be harder to acquire than I'm painting the picture of...but here me out.
We must add:
-Rangy free safety to cover up for TJ Ward's mistakes in coverage. A lot of Eric Wright's struggles can be traced back to Ward making mistakes in coverage. Ward is a GREAT addition to our secondary, now we need another safety to complement him.
-Eric Barton replacement/athletic ILB. Chris Gocong is great against the run and is a large reason why our run defense is so much better this season, now it's time to complement him with an athletic ILB next to him in the David Harris/Lawrence Timmons mold. That would be big from a pass rush perspective with collapsing the pocket from the middle as well.
-Youth at DL. This could help with our pass rush as well if we get some younger DE's who can collapse the pocket and aid the OLB's in getting to the QB. (I'm NOT saying pure pass rush DE's...look at New England and Pittsburgh if you want an idea...they aid in collapsing the pocket for the OLB's).
Obviously, secondary depth is always a must...but I have some faith that this unit will get better as Joe Haden and TJ Ward mature. We need to patch the hole at FS and add some depth.
I'm also ok with Matt Roth and Marcus Benard at OLB...although we can always stand to add depth behind them to develop.
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Another safety & a stud DE (primarily because of age) are our two biggest needs on D IMO. I'm starting to wonder if Wright is losing interest in football. He's constantly getting beat now, and shows almost no willingness to tackle. I really wonder what's happening here. Seems to me, the way the D is playing, that he would be fired up and looking to make a statement. Instead, it looks like he'd rather be almost anywhere else. I'm really enjoying the schemes. The blitzing. And love the fluid front. We HAVE to see more of that against the good QBs. Hope Ryan sticks it out with us for a while. He seems to be getting better every week, scheming and utilizing his personnel. Game balls to Bowens, Fujita & team defense this week. 
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I think that we need a pass rushing DE, and pass rushing LB, a S, and probably another CB.
You say that a Free Safety ... but we don't play Free or Strong .... we play Left and Right. You cannot get locked into the traditional Free Safety or Strong Safety type of model.
Frankly, I hope that the Browns look to WR in free agency this coming off-season. If we can sign 1 or 2 solid veterans I think we'll be further ahead than trying to turn high draft picks into veteran WRs.
I would go DE, LB, and S in the first 3 rounds of the draft. I would then look at other spots by best player available. I would look for a T and a CB in the 4th/5th range.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Our number 1 need on defense is a safety to replace Elam. A ballhawking safety would be preferred.
After that we need someone talented at rushing the passer. Whether that is an Olb, Ilb, or DE doesn't matter.
Then we really just need to improve depth. In dire need is the defensive line. Our defensive backfield could use some depth as well.
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Quote:
-Rangy free safety to cover up for TJ Ward's mistakes in coverage.
That and we could coach Ward up to make fewer mistakes... 
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j/c Apparently, Florio agrees about our D. Of course his reasoning in this article is pretty lame . . . http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ing-candidates/Rob Ryan moves onto the "A" list of coaching candidates Posted by Mike Florio on October 24, 2010 2:55 PM ET We've mentioned Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan as a potential head-coaching candidate for 2011 on a couple of occasions recently, due in large part to the fact that: (1) Rex Ryan and the Jets are 5-1; and (2) Rex Ryan and Rob Ryan are identical twins. With the Browns stunning the Saints, 20-3, in the third quarter of Sunday's game against the Saints in New Orleans, Rob Ryan officially has moved onto the short list of current coordinators who will be considered for promotions in the next hiring cycle. Of course, any team that would be interested in Rob Ryan would have to want a guy who behaves like his DNA match. Rob is just like Rex, if not even worse. Earlier this month, Ryan called Bengals guard Nate Livings an "a-hole" during a press conference. But with the Jets soaring under Rex, one of the other owners who'll be looking for a new coach will at least consider the potential benefits of bringing another member of the Ryan family to town.
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The players love the guy and will do absolutely anything to protect their coach. Would love to see Rob take over as HC. and Gil Haskell take over as OC. I think with Holmgren overseeing the show and Heckert filling the roster, it might be a great combination.
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Quote:
Quote:
-Rangy free safety to cover up for TJ Ward's mistakes in coverage.
That and we could coach Ward up to make fewer mistakes...
or to catch one of those balls he let's bounce off his chest 
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Yea if Ward could catch the 4 or so of his pick sixes we wouldnt be lamenting his coverage deficiencies.
But...for our defense to become more elite, we need one more ILB that really patrols the middle of the field.
2 DEs with youth (Christian Ballard and/or Cameron Heyward) and ability.
a 3rd DB who isnt afraid to tackle (Mike Adams full-time?).
and a safety who is better in coverage than Elam
If we can add those pieces, and i think DL is the most important right now we could be very very good.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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The players love the guy and will do absolutely anything to protect their coach. Would love to see Rob take over as HC. and Gil Haskell take over as OC. I think with Holmgren overseeing the show and Heckert filling the roster, it might be a great combination.
You guys noticed who was getting the gatorade shower didn't you? I don't think it was Mangini.
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Well, I'd like to see Rob stick around for a while but it won't surprise me if he get's a chance to HC sooner than later....Denver maybe??, he is pretty familiar with that division.
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Quote:
Quote:
The players love the guy and will do absolutely anything to protect their coach. Would love to see Rob take over as HC. and Gil Haskell take over as OC. I think with Holmgren overseeing the show and Heckert filling the roster, it might be a great combination.
You guys noticed who was getting the gatorade shower didn't you? I don't think it was Mangini.
The D did an outstanding job, don't try and make that more than what it is. Mangini has already proven the guys play for him also.
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Well, I'd like to see Rob stick around for a while but it won't surprise me if he get's a chance to HC sooner than later....Denver maybe??, he is pretty familiar with that division.
hope not. but, if Rob does get his chance, then good for him (and hopefully we'd be able to get somebody like Wade Phillips to replace him who might get let go in Dallas)
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Agreed...its not like the defense is playing for Rob Ryan in spite of Mangini...thatd be ridiculous. That doesnt happen.
This is a team united behind its head coach, its coordinators, and its players. Theyre a cohesive group that is ALL working toward the same goal.
I only have two gripes right now.
1. Eric Wright is being asked to play physical and tough football and that is not his game. He said this year he wants to be the next Deion Sanders. He was not a tackler. He wasnt physical. He was a guy that would play close to the WR and knock balls down or make ints. Eric is being asked to be a physical tackler and a guy that makes the hit as the ball shows up, and that is why i think he is struggling. If he were given the go ahead to play his game...and let Elam and Ward protect his back side, i think we'd see his swagger come back.
2. Daboll's play calling. He is still struggling to put together a solid offense. Now he has no WRs to really help our offense make things happen, but he isnt making play calls that put his offensive players in the best position to succeed. This week was his best job, and our offense scored 16. We finally had good balance running the ball to passing the ball. But...we still tried too often to establish a pass game rather than establish a run game when that is our bread and butter. Daboll needs to see that we should be using the run to setup our pass game. And where was Evan Moore this week?
Those are my only two gripes right now...and for a 2-5 team...thats amazing.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
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The players love the guy and will do absolutely anything to protect their coach. Would love to see Rob take over as HC. and Gil Haskell take over as OC. I think with Holmgren overseeing the show and Heckert filling the roster, it might be a great combination.
You guys noticed who was getting the gatorade shower didn't you? I don't think it was Mangini.
Both Ryan and the ST coach got a shower... which to me was nice... but I was actually upset... we're not even half way through the season... I know this was a big win, but act like you've been there before... I want to see a gatoraide shower after we've cliniched the North or a playoff spot or the superbowl...
<><
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Quote:
Both Ryan and the ST coach got a shower... which to me was nice... but I was actually upset... we're not even half way through the season... I know this was a big win, but act like you've been there before
I thought about that too, but, the bottom line is we're a 2-5 team and if we can still get pumped up with a record like that it can only be a good thing for us down the road.
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we're not even half way through the season... I know this was a big win, but act like you've been there before... I want to see a gatoraide shower after we've cliniched the North or a playoff spot or the superbowl...
Amen to that. I actually thought, "they're showing me they'll be less prepared for New England by acting like that." Which can't be proved, of course. I might be overreacting, but I also didn't really care for it.
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I'm fairly neutral on it... I'm happy that they were very pumped up over a very good win over the SuperBowl champs... but I'm not happy that they treated the game like their superbowl...
hopefully they can enjoy the week off then get prepared for the Pats.
<><
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We need 3 things IMO to have a TOP defense.
1) A juggernaut at MLB spot. Someone who can hold down the run and also cover the pass.
2) A threat at Defensive End. I like who we have, but none of them are game changers. We need a non-stop motor who can push back any tackle and collapse the pocket.
3) A top corner to pair up with Joe Haden. Haden is gonna be a keeper. I like what I see. But to add someone like Patrick Peterson, or Prince Amarkaru(sp?) would add volumes to our defense.
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Quote:
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Both Ryan and the ST coach got a shower... which to me was nice... but I was actually upset... we're not even half way through the season... I know this was a big win, but act like you've been there before
I thought about that too, but, the bottom line is we're a 2-5 team and if we can still get pumped up with a record like that it can only be a good thing for us down the road.
They can get pumped all they want. A 2-5 team doesn't start dumping Gatorade on the head coach. They have a long way to go before they've earned that privilege. Dumping it on Ryan? Oh yeah because it was a heck of an effort and they deserve it.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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C'mon man, we were 14 point underdogs,the biggest upset of the week, maybe the year, there's no problem with the team celebrating this win.
Things could be worse,...much worse. This team needs to feel good about themselves if we're gonna see more exciting football after the bye.
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I'm sort of in the middle on this.. I'm glad the team is still pumped and playing hard and wants to celebrate.. in the end, however, I do believe the Gatorade dump level of celebration should be reserved for winning more than just one football game in the middle of the season.... clinching a playoff spot or the division or something.. but just winning a game? Even beating a good team on the road?... It does give the impression that they have accomplished a goal.. and I hope their goals are bigger than that.
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My math is horrible,but here goes.
11 guys,replace 3 of them with studs and you'll have a top flight D.That's better than 25% of the starters.
I wonder if there are any teams in the NFL that can't say the same thing.A rediculous statement.
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I don't see where he said they had to be studs, they just have to be upgrades, in some cases with a more specific skill set..
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I really hope that we continue on the pace we're going because it's very good, but I don't want anything to happen to Ryan. I don't want other teams wanting him to be their head coach or offering jobs. This is the thing that I'm afraid could happened. I want him with us now and for the foreseeable future, not anywhere else.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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If Rob really believes he's part of something special and wants to see it through to the end I don't see him going anywhere.
Rob and Mangini really compliment each other. I see Rob as the guy the players can joke around with... his brash style also gives merit to it. Mangini on the other hand is a disciplinarian who demands respect and the players are motivated to play for him because they've seen results from his coaching style
As for the Gatorade bath... they went into the Superdome and took care of business against the defending Super Bowl champions. I don't see it as them treating it like it was their "Super Bowl". I see it as the players rewarding Rob for his masterful gameplan they executed.
Both Fujita and Bowens both said that the win was a great building block for future success.
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It seems the consensus here is that we need one upgrade on each of our three units on D; one each for the line, LB corps and the secondary. To add, in my opinion we need more depth on the DL too.
So, upgrade a starter on that unit and also improve the depth.
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I think that we have the "bones" to a very good defense. The only thing we lack are real difference makers. Like I said earlier, find a couple of those for the defense and the group we have could suddenly strive for elite status.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This D is not close to a top D
this D needs:
1. 2 new DE(Our DE stink and are old)
2. 4 New LBers (Roth and Bernard are depth but get no pass rush) Gocong and Fujita are good depth but not starters...we probably have the worst LBer core of any team that runs the 3-4
3. Safety : We need safety help big time...Elam is way below par and the depth behind them are bad as well...
this D is way off from being a Top 5 Team..Rogers and Robaire Smith are done..Coleman is on his last legs....this DL needs serious help and there isn't anyone on that line outside of Rubin I can see even being here longterm....
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Quote:
This D is not close to a top D
Drew Brees might disagree.
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this D needs:
1. 2 new DE(Our DE stink and are old)
I would argue that our DE are stout against the run. They don't get out of their lanes either by over-aggressiveness or by getting pushed out. We are #12 in YPC rush defense for a reason.
Now, our DE's are not old. Coleman is old, but Schaefering(current starter), Mitchell, and Robinson are not. I agree that we don't have a Seymour type DE that can push the pocket and get to the QB. We need 1 of those to be a truly elite defense.
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2. 4 New LBers (Roth and Bernard are depth but get no pass rush) Gocong and Fujita are good depth but not starters...we probably have the worst LBer core of any team that runs the 3-4
I believe Fujita and Roth could start for any number of teams. Fujita did start for the superbowl champs last year (in a 4-3 but he's been doing surprisingly well in the transition. I expected a bigger dropoff). Roth was on a tear last season and its not like he's fallen off the map this season.
I agree that Gocong and Benard should be depth LBs. In fact, since Barton technically starts, Benard already is a depth LB (though he plays as much as Barton does).
We need a real Bradie James style thumper at one of the MLB spots (if Barton were a few years younger, this is what he once was). And, I would love to have a DeMarcus Ware at one of the OLB spots (Dallas' D problems are not from those 2).
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3. Safety : We need safety help big time...Elam is way below par and the depth behind them are bad as well...
I think Elam and Mike Adams is really good depth to have at safety. We need a ball-hawking safety to start though, agreed.
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this D is way off from being a Top 5 Team..Rogers and Robaire Smith are done..Coleman is on his last legs....this DL needs serious help and there isn't anyone on that line outside of Rubin I can see even being here longterm....
Rogers has been supplanted by Rubin as our best nose. Rogers is the best 2nd NT in the NFL. Not really done. Coleman may be on his last legs, but for what he does (statuesque run defense), he may be able to last a few more seasons. Robaire always seems to be hurt, I'm not sure I'd even count him at this point.
Why didn't you include this part up in your DL section? Anyways, I think Schaefering has a chance to stick for a decent career.
Ok, so by my tally, we need 1 pass-rush DE, 1 pass-rush OLB, 1 run-thumping MLB, 1 safety. And I think we have the depth set everywhere.
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I would love a ballhawking safety to get us a bunch of turnovers/interceptions but right now I really think our D would be much better if we could replace Elam with a safety who held their assignments. Provide over the top help when he is suppose to and make the tackle when the Rb runs to the hole he is suppose to be filling.
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2. 4 New LBers (Roth and Bernard are depth but get no pass rush) Gocong and Fujita are good depth but not starters...we probably have the worst LBer core of any team that runs the 3-4
Yah Fujita sucks. Starting on a Superbowl team last year and doing very well this year.... he needs benched and will only ever be a back up.
Knight, is the glass always half-empty with you?
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Quote:
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This D is not close to a top D
Drew Brees might disagree.
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NRTU
If I had to assess this defense right now today, I would say their better then they were, (which isn’t saying much) but need to continue to improve.
The truth is though it’s really hard to assess this defense as a whole because they really haven’t played that much together. We are beginning to see flashes of great potential and that’s always a good thing, but I would reserve my final opinion about this unit on whole for the close of the season. By then they should have at least begun to reach some of their potential.
The reason I say all this is because I happen to be a big believer in PT together before I leap to any concrete conclusions about a team that has as little time playing together as the Browns defense does. We have a rookie safety starting and rookie CB who is receiving lots of PT that are continuing to improve and grow as the season unfolds along with 2 starting LBers that are completely new to the team and the 3-4.
So while there are certain things we think we know about this defense at this juncture it could change significantly between now and the end of the season. I have convinced myself that they will continue to improve and so far I think they have. I reserve for the end of the season most of my thoughts because they’ll likely change as this defense and it’s players continue to evolve.
I don’t blame folks for looking back and trying to identify weaknesses but I just think it’s premature at this juncture.
JMHO
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With all these discussions about us being almost there, then winning a decent amount of games should be a reasonable expectation next year.
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With all these discussions about us being almost there, then winning a decent amount of games should be a reasonable expectation next year.
agreed. I hope we don't get stuck in the Texans-style rut from the past few seasons. they got to 7-9 to 8-8 and just have been mired there season after season. they hope this is the season they break-through, but their secondary may hold them back on that hope.
of course, getting to the point where we are a consistently average team would be a step up from the past 12 years (sadly) but it is a step I hope we avoid as the consistently contending teams tend to "leap" up to contending status and stay there rather than getting mired in mediocrity (see: NE wtih Brady, Indy after a couple seasons with Peyton, SD with LaDanian, etc).
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also, thought this belonged here.
Defense Ranked #14 in NFL (pts/game)
Offense Ranked #28 in NFL (pts/game)
No, these stats aren't perfect because they do not account for the pick-6's Jake and Seneca were throwing earlier nor do they account for the ST's field position or the Bowens Pick-6's that we have gotten. But, overall, they tend to even out some and it's the best "easy" stat we have for evaluating.
Much better stat than using yards per game that the announcers like to use (who thinks the Saints had a "good" offensive day last Sunday, yet from a yards perspective that is just what they had).
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Drew Brees might disagree.
Come on now....Drew Brees just had his second baby come into this world, not to mention his coach had him only throw the ball 56 times...I mean...how many QB win games throwing that many times? The Saints could have very easily beaten us if they would not have given up on running the ball in the second quarter
Brees being distracted due to the birth of his son, and his coach having a facepalm moment of throwing the ball 56 times had nothing to do with it right?...bottom line is...if the Saints would not have abandoned their running game(which was working) in the second quarter we probably are talking about a loss right now..
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
Wow... really? This might be the most desperate attempt yet on your part to make others as miserable over the Browns as you seem to be. The Browns dominate the defending Superbowl champs and all you have to say is that we only won, in part, because Drew Brees' mind was on his newborn son instead of his job (for which he is paid serious coin to focus on when gametime comes around)?? Unreal.
I feel for you man. I really do. Your hatred for all-things Mangini won't even let you enjoy an impressive victory over a good team. That's really sad.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101 |
They rushed 18 times for 58 yds. with a long carry of 8 yds. That a 3.2 yd per carry average.In my opinion when you go down 20-3 you have to start throwing the ball.I see no indication that contuing to run the ball would have led to the Saints winning the game as they scored 0 points on the ground. And saying that Brees having a new born child is why we won is laughable.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum So close to having a top defense.
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