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Whatever you say about Mangini, he has some cahonnas and can take a lot of heat.
He's playing head games with the hoodie.
its kinda funny.
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Early returns on mike bell not so good, as far as us not losing anything. He currently has 7 carries for a whopping 0 (with a 'z') yards.
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It isn't....it's the plan. They don't want small shifty guys. They was big bruisers.
It may not be the plan you or some others would take, but it doesn't make it a bad plan.
Never said it was a bad plan.But I still would like to have a back on this team that go the distance on any given carry.
When I've talked about RB's in past years I've always looked at bigger backs, so I'm debating that..but I stick to my premise that the Browns don't undertsand how to use smaller backs..and they don't.
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j/c
Isn't a practice squad signing from another team forced to go on the active roster?
That's my understanding..
For a minimum of 3 games.
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j/c
Isn't a practice squad signing from another team forced to go on the active roster?
Yes...and why we released Davis.
Because he danced almost as much as William Green. We want RB who see a small hole and hit it HARD, not RB who wait for huge holes to open before they make the choice to run north/south.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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j/c
Isn't a practice squad signing from another team forced to go on the active roster?
That's my understanding..
For a minimum of 3 games.
That I didn't know,, thanks Shep
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So it's a "fact" that Harrison and Cribbs saved Mangini's job?
You think we would have won the 1 score game against KC without his 280+ rushing yds? See? Me neither...Mangini USED Harrison to the tune of 34, 39 and 34 rushes in the last 3 games that saved his a$$....he gained over 560yds in those 3 game....YES, I think it's save to say he saved his job...so much for Harrison producing "nothing"
Also, Harrison is about AVG in fumbles per touches...Hillis' ratio is much higher...so much for that "argument"....he is NOT a fumbler, that's stupid BS (and 1 of his career 4 fumbles was the non fumble this year, remember?)
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Guys like you go on and on and on about Mangini being an ego maniac, when actions and circumstances clearly show that he is not. Everyone has an ego. EVERYONE. You have to have extreme confidence in your abilities to coach in this league, but Mangini is clearly a decent individual, who is smart, down to earth, has the team playing for him, and has the respect of players who aren't ego driven
....and he has a 7-16 record as Browns Coach...just as a reminder...in case you forgot
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They didn't work out, time to move on. We've lost nothing by getting rid of either one.
Which part of 100+ carries for 560+yds and career 4.6yds/carry didn't you get? Because that's exactly what we lost with Harrison
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You guys love to talk about orange glasses and homerism, but you and others like you are so blinded by your hatred of Mangini, (for only imagined, fabricated or parroted reasons,) that you can't see that the personnel changes made over the past two years have been for the most part positive ones, that have resulted in a better, more physical, more cohesive, more talented football team. Mangini has this team moving in the right direction, playing WELL above their talent level. I am happy to say he's our coach, and can't wait to see how we'll we're playing when we have more actual play-makers on this team, rather than guys who maybe flash during preseason or have a good run against bottom rated teams.
1st off, I don't think we play ABOVE our talent level...where? we're 29th on O and 23rd on D and are 2-5....we have a Top 10, maybe Top5 OL, S.Rogers, decent young DBs (thanks to Heckert) and the best ST unit....that said, I don't consider 2-5 playing ABOVE our talent level....heck I wouldn't even if we had the worst talent in football, which we clearly haven't
What fans like you just don't get is that the trade off for "Mangini-football" IS a lack of playmaking ability, the Jets became a playmaking team as soon as Mangini left with the moves and philsophy Ryan made/implemented there....Mangini thinks he can score TDs and rush the passer with "character" and "yes Sir" guys....great, we might have the nicest roster around the league but we will never have the most talented under Mangini
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I don't know these new guys, but since you are down on them, they must be good.
Harrison was so fast that he was getting tackled behind the line of scrimmage on a straight dive play. I really don't know how he ran so well at the end of last season, because he has showed absolutely nothing this season with either the Browns or the Eagles.
As for Davis' twitter statement, he had just been released. He just had to put a spin on it.
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I don't know these new guys, but since you are down on them, they must be good.
Yeah, like those other guys I was wrong about...like...wait....umh...yeah, that's me waiting for backing up your barking
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Harrison was so fast that he was getting tackled behind the line of scrimmage on a straight dive play. I really don't know how he ran so well at the end of last season, because he has showed absolutely nothing this season with either the Browns or the Eagles.
Harrison 4.6yd/play, Bell 3.8yd/play....those are the facts....good luck twisting them...according to some homers here it's a wash, lol
Also, in the category "busted homer board myths"
Bell 371 rushes, 5 fumbles = fumble every 74th rush
Harrison 302 rushes, 4 fumbles = fumble every 75th rush
Hillis 185 rushes, 4 fumbles = fumble every 46th rush
So, if Harrison is a "fumbler", Bell is one too and Hillis is a fumbling machine
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Akron, who are you talking about? Who was the talented Davis? What were his talents? Where can I read about him and see how he showed you how talented he was?
Who was the player we cut who had shown promise? When?
Were these people speed demons? Good blockers? Outstanding receivers? Great special team talents?
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I really don't know how he ran so well at the end of last season, because he has showed absolutely nothing this season with either the Browns or the Eagles.
I wondered this too, and the one thing conclusion that I came too was this....
Last year, Harrison played great over that 4 game tear---and he gave a lot of credit to Vickers, whom he ran behind all game long in KC. He would follow his FB and then hit the hole and go.
This year, otoh, it seemed like most of the time when Harrison got the ball---he was running out of a single back set, and he just wasn't able to find the next level like he could at teh end of last season. I don't understand why we ran him out of single-back sets---but to me---that appeared to be the reason for JH lack of production this season.
But to get back to the actual thread topic.
I am kind of pumped about the WR pick-up. Wasn't this guy supposed to really come on strong as a future playmaker for Baltimore when he was drafted. Wasn't he somewhat productive his first year in the league?
I gotta do some searching around to see if I can find some press on the guy.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Thanks, CalDawg. Your response to the doom-mongers was right on target and needed to be said.
The only problem is that they don't understand or care that they contribute nothing beneficial to anything having to do with the Browns even when you specifically address them.
It's too bad they hide behind the term "fan."
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I agree that Harrison is a more talented player than Bell. But I don't think he was giving the effort necessary to stay on the team.
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I wasnt one to lament the fumbling...
but looking at Harrison in comparison to Bell in past production...he has .8 less yards per carry...agreed thats worse, but has 8 more TDs in 7 less games...That sounds good to me. Thats where I call it a wash, ill trade .8 yards per carry for additional TDs.
I think a lot is made of ypc...i think if youre over 3.5 youre serviceable, and if youre over 4 youre doing a good job. So we traded a guy who was doing a good job for someone who is serviceable.
But if you cant admit that Harrison was having a dismal season to this point (regardless of reasons why) then youre not paying attention.
If you think that our style of offense suited Harrison youre not paying attention. Could he have helped if used correctly? absolutely, but the fact of that matter is that he wasnt. Could he turn it on and be amazing? maybe, but he hasnt been active for Philly yet. That says a little at least to me. Bell came to us and has been active every game (his effectiveness 7 carries 0 yards can be debated) and he has been able to spell Hillis in short spurts and id expect to see him do more after the bye because he gets more time to acclimate.
James Davis is just a name to me...a career of 1.8 yds per carry. Thats not promise. He had a big play v. Detroit in the preseason and hasnt done anything since.
Clayton...hes just a name to me too, he comes from NE and could maybe give us an edge, and another tough runner. We're building a team thats able to win in December and January. Yea i think Harrison can get things done...idk when though. I think that if hes fresh he can be very dangerous in December, but not if hes getting a full complement of carries in october and november, i think hed wear down. my personal opinion. Clayton gives us another tough runner who can help wear down defenses.
We're loading up on toughness. Look at the Jets O with Mangini's guys...Jones and that OL...and a hint of Shonn Greene in the playoffs.
Mangini's teams are built to wear other teams down and be good late in the year. We're learning how to win in October and November, and with the guys we have...we'll win late in the season. It'll show through, you can book it. Late season wins will be synonymous with Mangini (unless Favre comes to play for us)
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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but looking at Harrison in comparison to Bell in past production...he has .8 less yards per carry...agreed thats worse, but has 8 more TDs in 7 less games...That sounds good to me. Thats where I call it a wash, ill trade .8 yards per carry for additional TDs.
You do realize that a) Bell played for a Top 5 Offense and Harrison for bottom 3rd the past years? and b) that Bell had 70 more carries than Harrison?
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I think a lot is made of ypc...i think if youre over 3.5 youre serviceable, and if youre over 4 youre doing a good job. So we traded a guy who was doing a good job for someone who is serviceable.
You think huh? Fact is though that 3.5-3.9 is crappy to below AVG, 4.0-4.2 is what you call "servicable" and everything above is above AVG to good in this league....so no, we traded a good change of pace back for a below AVG goalline back...and we already have a GL back, right?
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But if you cant admit that Harrison was having a dismal season to this point (regardless of reasons why) then youre not paying attention.
If you think that our style of offense suited Harrison youre not paying attention. Could he have helped if used correctly? absolutely, but the fact of that matter is that he wasnt.
...and who didn't use him correctly or the way Harrison saved his job? That's my whole point dude....also, if you get 5-7 carries max a game...not even consecutive...out of a singleback set too boot, that AGAIN doesn'T fit his style (no FB and up the middle a lot)...why didn't we run some sweeps with him...like we did with Hillis 8-10 times against the Saints? That's what our OL is good at...Harrison is no tough runner, everybody knows that, so should our coaches, right? He has good vision of blocking in front of him and has short area quickness....so play up to those strengths...we never did that this year. He was set up to fail and then shipped, after clearly being in HC's doghouse
Bottom line is: he has shown he can produce pretty good numbers/games IF used properly...something our coaches "elected" to not exercise anymore...for whatever reason...but I can't spin this into the coaches having done a good job anyway I look at this...it's not that we're loaded with playmakers to begin with
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Not much output to be pining over him. Has done really very little for us for the roster spot he has held. Words like "potential" and "intriguing" sparkle when you have little talent. Hope for the next "Project" to succeed holds some fans' interest. Pretty tired of the crapshoot of projects who might be frontline starters. From Ben Gay to PipeDream Green to Davis, repeats the drama dream cycle. Its over. Get starters; develop the PS corps. We will not miss his output. Those on the board want to bash about good or bad picks and dwell on yesterday can proceed at will. That doesn't pan any gold for me though. Welcome home, newby!
Go Brownies!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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You could save yourself a lot of time and maybe save your fingers if you just type this sentence into every post and let it go at that: Mangini is an idiot,, fire him now..... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We're building a team thats able to win in December and January.
Unfortunately the games in September and October count on our record as well.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Very true,
But if you can split the first 8, then win 6 of the last 8 when its cold ... you have a 10 win season and a team that is (hopefully) starting to beat up on the "finesse" teams just as everyone who ISNT built for the end of the season has to play smash football.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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j/c
After realizing what Hillis is going to bring to this team I think we're going to compliment him with guys who are going to continue to soften up D's while Hillis gets his breathers. Davis and Harrison were not the type of backs that could contribute in that way.
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You think we would have won the 1 score game against KC without his 280+ rushing yds? See? Me neither...
Who knows, who cares? Jamal may have had the same numbers, but he wasn't here. Was that Mangini's ego that forced him out after several productive seasons? No. It was time to move on. Any adequate back in that situation may have gotten the same yards based on scheme. Davis might've gotten those numbers. Or Jennings. I don't see you moaning about losing him. It's not like Harrison became a pro-bowl runner the last quarter of the season. We were running, (because there WAS no passing game,) against inferior opponents, and our line was blocking extremely well against inferior DLs.
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Mangini USED Harrison to the tune of 34, 39 and 34 rushes in the last 3 games that saved his a$$....he gained over 560yds in those 3 game....YES, I think it's save to say he saved his job...so much for Harrison producing "nothing"
Mangini didn't use anyone. He was on the payroll and was expected to do his job. Do you honestly think Mangini's thought process went something like, "If I can get Harrison to put up amazing numbers these last few games, my job will be secure for another year! Then I'll dump him! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!" Followed by a dastardly wringing of his hands? You must have this cartoon villain image of the man, and your reasoning reflects it.
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Also, Harrison is about AVG in fumbles per touches...Hillis' ratio is much higher...so much for that "argument"....he is NOT a fumbler, that's stupid BS (and 1 of his career 4 fumbles was the non fumble this year, remember?)
Forget the fumbles for a second, what about production? Not last year, this year. Where is Harrison's? It's non-existent. He went from over 4.5 ypc to under 3. Did he suddenly drop in talent level? No. It's just further proof that his inflated stats were due to the schedule against inferior teams. Hillis, on the other hand, has maintained a steady almost 4.5ypc, and has scored a half dozen TDs. Harrison wasn't cutting it, and his attitude wasn't working for the locker room. Nothing against the guy, but there's nothing wrong with going a different direction, if you're looking for a bigger back. The decision had nothing to do with Mangini's ego, and everything to do with the system and schemes. Doesn't matter how you paint it, the guy wasn't producing, and he no longer fit. Screw what he did last year, it's irrelevant. Stop living in the past.
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....and he has a 7-16 record as Browns Coach...just as a reminder...in case you forgot
But he's 6-5 since the team started playing as a team.  Don't throw useless stats at me to bolster your weak argument. Doesn't fly.
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Which part of 100+ carries for 560+yds and career 4.6yds/carry didn't you get? Because that's exactly what we lost with Harrison
So you're saying we lost last year's production? News flash, we didn't, it's in the books. It happened. Last year. Here's some new numbers for you, 31 carries for 91 yards @ 2.9yps and no TDs. That's what we lost with Harrison.
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1st off, I don't think we play ABOVE our talent level...where? we're 29th on O and 23rd on D and are 2-5....we have a Top 10, maybe Top5 OL, S.Rogers, decent young DBs (thanks to Heckert) and the best ST unit....that said, I don't consider 2-5 playing ABOVE our talent level.
You know as well as I do that we could easily be 4-3, that schematically those games should have been won, but penalties and turnovers cost us that record. That's on the players, not the coach. You think going up against the SB champs in the Superdome and walking away with a victory with virtually no offense is not playing above our talent level. Even you can't be that stubbornly blind.
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What fans like you just don't get is that the trade off for "Mangini-football" IS a lack of playmaking ability, the Jets became a playmaking team as soon as Mangini left with the moves and philsophy Ryan made/implemented there....Mangini thinks he can score TDs and rush the passer with "character" and "yes Sir" guys....great, we might have the nicest roster around the league but we will never have the most talented under Mangini
First, I'll take character and talent over ego and talent any day. I'd much rather be a Cleveland fan than a Dallas fan at this point in the season. Secondly, we're still rebuilding. I seriously doubt Mangini has dictated to Holmgren and Heckert not to bring in play makers. In fact, I'd be willing to be that bringing in more offensive weapons is next on the agenda for all of them, now that they have a core of quality players and a system in place. EVERYONE knows we need a #1 WR. Even Mangini. Still need a starting QB, I'm sure they're aware, but trying to asses what we have. Hillis is a play maker. Fujita, play maker. Rogers, play maker. Benard, play maker. Roth, play maker. Ward, Haden, potential play makers. Watson, play maker. Moore, potential play maker. This team isn't made up of nice-guy, yes-men, these guys are tough, and play hard-nosed physical football. If you haven't seen that this year, then you're missing some great football.
We still need pieces. A RT, a WR, a safety, a DE, maybe another OLB, maybe another CB. You know that, I know that, we all know that. But the team is improving, and we're much better, MUCH BETTER off than we were two years ago, because we FINALLY have a decent coach, who understands the game, knows what it takes to assemble a winning team, and is smart enough to out-coach opponents, and can get wins even when we're decimated by injuries.
You may not like him, but your complete ignoring of the facts in front of you is mind boggling. I often respect your take on football X's and O's, but I really don't get your need to propagate this hatred of Mangini when all he has done in two years is work his ass off to bring respect, talent, and wins back to Cleveland. The Ego-manic, smarmy dictator B.S. is old news, a hang-over from a poisoned agenda disseminated by disgruntled Jets, and a sensationalizing New York media. Nothing he has done here reflects this, and you and others pounding of this dead horse is old, tired and completely lacking in any credibility. You're railing against a theoretical villain character that doesn't exist, and you're tilting at windmills. He's a descent man and a solid coach, and you're blind hatred won't allow you to see that.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I love that we can get so fired up over the transactions of our 3rd string :-)
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We're nothing if not passionate. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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 well said caldawg. unfortunately, clemdawg said something to that effect a couple of weeks ago to knight of brown and django and i think it went in one ear and out the other. still, you speak for the majority of us on here. well said, sir.
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Thing is, I get their frustration. Had we won those games against the Bucs & Chiefs, maybe the hatred gets tempered a bit. What I don't get is the unwillingness to admit that the team is actually playing better football than we have since the return, in every phase except passing. We're running and we're stopping the run. How many years have we, the posters, the fans, and the press bemoaned our inability to do that? We finally have a decent O-line. Yes, it can get better, but it's still a work in progress. The D is playing as a unit. Finally. How often did we see blown assignments, players out of position, and open running lanes with prior regimes. It was sickening. And our special teams is one of the best, if not the best in the league. That is a sure sign of an up and coming team, and where we will draw some of our future talent from. The passing game needs serious help, but you can only do so much in two years. Especially when an entire team needs to be practically gutted to start over.
I'll also admit that the book hasn't been finished. We've thought we've been well on our way before too. Hopefully we can finish out the season strong, keep the staff, including Ryan, and procure the rest of the talent in the off-season. Anything short of a play-off run next year will probably cost Mangini his job, assuming he can hang on for another year. I hope not, but we'll see. We all want to win. The fact that we haven't for so long leaves some fans hoping for a magic pill in the form of another coach like Reed, or Gruden, or Cohwer, but they would have been faced with the same situation, and would have needed to rebuild just like Mangini has, because he had nothing to start with. Ironically, if Mangini is fired this year, anyone coming in will likely gut a good portion of the team, and keep the best that we have now, so essentially, they'll have a leg up, but we'd take another major step backward before moving forward. Again.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Who knows, who cares? Jamal may have had the same numbers, but he wasn't here.
...and if my aunty had nuts...who cares? I'm sure Mangini cared for his job, you think otherwise? Jennings? Jennings was a nie guy without talent..lots of heart but 0 athelticism and it showed....3.5yd/carry
...and which part of "Harrison is a good CHANGE OF PACE back" didn't you get? I don't even think he's a starter, let alone ProBowler...stop putting words in my mouth....you guys really should learn how to read properly
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Forget the fumbles for a second
Wait, wait...why should I? Now that you've been proven wrong I should forget about it? Lol, dude at least sack up and say you were wrong here
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what about production? Not last year, this year. Where is Harrison's? It's non-existent. He went from over 4.5 ypc to under 3. Did he suddenly drop in talent level? No. It's just further proof that his inflated stats were due to the schedule against inferior teams. Hillis, on the other hand, has maintained a steady almost 4.5ypc, and has scored a half dozen TDs. Harrison wasn't cutting it,
I'm not the only poster who saw that he's being used not to his strengths....and it'S not like Bell's 0yd AVG is beating it...and this another core point ot begin with: did we get better with Bell for Harrison? Doesn't look like anyway you look at it
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Don't throw useless stats at me to bolster your weak argument. Doesn't fly.
This one takes the cake and is THE perfect example of what is wrong with this homer board...a HC's record being labeled a "useless stat"...priceless...you know, elsewhere HCs get fired for "useless stats" like that
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So you're saying we lost last year's production? News flash, we didn't, it's in the books. It happened. Last year.
Oh and thank you for already typing in my answer to your 6-5 Mangini record...see? it doesn't work both ways, lol...Mangini started off his 1st 2 seasons 1-5 here...that's pretty much the 2 quickest consecutive seasons I can remember that we were out of the POs already so early...not? when and who, please? Yeah, I'm waiting for an argument again...
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You know as well as I do that we could easily be 4-3, that schematically those games should have been won, but penalties and turnovers cost us that record. That's on the players, not the coach. You think going up against the SB champs in the Superdome and walking away with a victory with virtually no offense is not playing above our talent level. Even you can't be that stubbornly blind.
So, leading at the 1st H of ALL those games is on the Coaches? and losing almost ALL of them on the players? the same players who are coached and partly selected by same HC? Makes perfectly sense, lol
Mangini has a horrible 2nd H record and you are trying to tell me with a straight face that it's all on HIS KIND OF PLAYERS he got over here or coaches? Are you even aware of what BS you just wrote?
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We still need pieces. A RT, a WR, a safety, a DE, maybe another OLB, maybe another CB. You know that, I know that, we all know that. But the team is improving, and we're much better, MUCH BETTER off than we were two years ago, because we FINALLY have a decent coach, who understands the game, knows what it takes to assemble a winning team, and is smart enough to out-coach opponents, and can get wins even when we're decimated by injuries.
I'll skip the part where you made every AVG to above AVG starter we have into a playmaker, that's nonsense...no need to really go there but here's where I disagree....we are NOT better than the 2007 squad both from a talent and record standpoint....even 2008 is debatable....I still have NOT seen a Mangini led game like the MNG beatdown of the NYG...and no the NO game doesn't qualify...I'm talking bout a game where we dominated on O, D and ST, against a pretty good team....we had spurts of ST and D dominattion (PIT game last year, NO this year)....then some good rushing games with less D (KC, OAK game come to mind)...but yet such a "complementary" game Mangini is aiming for...he talks and preaches it sine coming here...and I agree....but talk is cheap, I haven't seen it yet...and it's NOT happening on HIS watch
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You may not like him, but your complete ignoring of the facts in front of you is mind boggling. I often respect your take on football X's and O's, but I really don't get your need to propagate this hatred of Mangini when all he has done in two years is work his ass off to bring respect, talent, and wins back to Cleveland. The Ego-manic, smarmy dictator B.S. is old news, a hang-over from a poisoned agenda disseminated by disgruntled Jets, and a sensationalizing New York media. Nothing he has done here reflects this, and you and others pounding of this dead horse is old, tired and completely lacking in any credibility. You're railing against a theoretical villain character that doesn't exist, and you're tilting at windmills. He's a descent man and a solid coach, and you're blind hatred won't allow you to see that.
Respect huh? Look around the league...no ones respecting us and Mangini for sure NOBODY...even the guys he loves to associate himself with no longer talk to him...he's a persona non grata in the league and we keep running him out. I don't hate Mangini, I could care less about him, I hate him being our HC....
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Obviously Heckert agreed with the move. That probably means that they were not going to re-sign Harrison anyway, he wasn't doing anything for the team anyway, so why not try a different player and see if we can get a guy who fits better.
Not a big deal.
Harrison was not going to be here next year anyway. Davis only made the team because Hardesty went down in pre-season. If these are the most talented guys we ever lose, I think that we'll be OK.
Harrison may do OK in Philly, and he may flop. I don't know how many touches he'll get behind McCoy. I would suspect that it won't be many.
Right now ...
Hillis:
104 for 460, 5 TD. 27 Rec 193 Yards 1 TD
McCoy:
105 for 477, 5 TD 38 Rec 293 0 TD.
Both the Browns and Eagles set their offense around a central back, Hillis for the Browns and McCoy for the Eagles. There is very little room for a complementary back. If he struggled for opportunities here, I don't see it as being easier to get touches in Philly.
In the end, it may well end up being much ado about nothing. In fact, that's what I would bet.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This Mangini's "tryout" year...either he proves he is capable of winning games or he is gone...3-2 odds Mangini is given the boot at the end of the year.
Do you really think Holmgren will trust Mangini with his legacy? your insane if you think that...starting 2 seasons out at 1-5 does not get you the bosses confidence...
Mangini is gone at years end, don't let the Saints game blind you....we will now lose a game we should win...
At years end either Holmgren takes over himself, or he hires one of his guys ALA Mooch, Gruden, etc...who he trusts with his legacy to take over..
no way Mike Holmgren will be remembered as the guy who failed in Cleveland with Mangini..no way...If Holmgren succeeds/fails here it will be with guys he trusts or himself coaching...no way he goes forward with Mangini after this year unless a miracle 8 win season happens
His tenure in Cleveland will have some bearing on how early he gets into the Hall of Fame...right now...Mangini has not shown he is worthy to be trusted with part of that legacy...Holmgren brings in his own guy next year or wears the headset himself..Mangini is out of here...its all but a forgone conclusion
We got the Pats after the bye, Bill Bellichik HATES Mangini with a passion...I bet Bellichik trys runs up the score on us just to drive the point and hope it gets "Benedict Arnold" canned.....
It Tom Brady doesn't torch our secondary I will be surprised....
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J/C
Simply amazes me that this thread is still active.
Dude had one great run a year and a half ago in the Great Lakes Classic. Other dude has been inactive since being acquired by Philly.
My God some people love to see their words on a computer screen.
Simply amazing.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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Jennings was a nie guy without talent..lots of heart but 0 athelticism and it showed....3.5yd/carry
Compared to Harrison's 2.9 ypc this year.
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...and which part of "Harrison is a good CHANGE OF PACE back" didn't you get?
And which part of 2.9 ypc don't you get? That's not a good change of pace, in anyone's book.
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I don't even think he's a starter, let alone ProBowler...stop putting words in my mouth....you guys really should learn how to read properly
I didn't put words in your mouth, I didn't say you said he was a pro-bowler. So Apparently, you need learn how to read properly. It's nice the way you try to deflect so you can ignore the point.
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Wait, wait...why should I? Now that you've been proven wrong I should forget about it? Lol, dude at least sack up and say you were wrong here
Wrong here about what? That he's an average fumbler? What I will admit is that while his fumbles in the preseason aren't counted in his stats, they do count in the coach's evaluation. You use stats to make your point, but ignore the fact that he consistently put the ball on the ground this year. Sack up and admit that. Dude. Also, dude, sack up and admit that you conveniently pull fragments of my comments for your B.S. "aha!" moments, while completely ignoring the points I've made.
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I'm not the only poster who saw that he's being used not to his strengths....and it'S not like Bell's 0yd AVG is beating it...and this another core point ot begin with: did we get better with Bell for Harrison? Doesn't look like anyway you look at it
This is like gibberish. Let me see if I can make sense out of what you're trying to say here... I take it you're saying he wasn't being used to his strengths. Which were, what, running the ball? 2.9ypc. No strength there. Getting outside? This year he was constantly getting stopped at or behind the LOS. So what were his strengths exactly, getting yards against inferior teams? Guess the coaches couldn't wait until we played some. As far as Bell goes, at least he's seen the field. But this isn't about Bell, it's about you incoherently whining over spilled milk.
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This one takes the cake and is THE perfect example of what is wrong with this homer board...a HC's record being labeled a "useless stat"...priceless...you know, elsewhere HCs get fired for "useless stats" like that
The won/loss stat is skewed and incomplete. Skewed because practically every new head coach starting with a bottom ranked team starts out in the hole, and incomplete because it's not over yet. So yes, your stat is useless, and so is your argument about coaches getting fired for their record. How many get fired based on the record of 22 games? You're being just being ridiculous now.
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Oh and thank you for already typing in my answer to your 6-5 Mangini record...see? it doesn't work both ways, lol...Mangini started off his 1st 2 seasons 1-5 here...that's pretty much the 2 quickest consecutive seasons I can remember that we were out of the POs already so early...not? when and who, please? Yeah, I'm waiting for an argument again...
Again, you pull only a part of my comment and take it out of context to make an invalid point. You use two 1-5 starts to bolster your argument about him being a bad coach, but ignore the face that he's won 6 of the past 11. You ignore the fact that every new coach coming to a failed system starts in the hole, and you ignore the fact that turnovers & penalties cost us at least two games this year. Your obstinate need to be right is clouding your reasoning. There's no arguing here, because you can't argue an opinion. You think he's a bad coach, I disagree, but your arguments certainly don't do a thing to help make your point.
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So, leading at the 1st H of ALL those games is on the Coaches?
Don't be ridiculous. Who's saying that?
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and losing almost ALL of them on the players? the same players who are coached and partly selected by same HC? Makes perfectly sense, lol
You try to put words in my mouth as a cheap way to duck the issue. The players got the lead when they executed, and lost it when they didn't. No need to spout nonsense to make a point.
You write this:
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are trying to tell me with a straight face that it's all on HIS KIND OF PLAYERS he got over here or coaches?
Then this:
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Are you even aware of what BS you just wrote?
That is truly funny. I know you're not trying to be comical, but I can hardly figure out what you're trying to say. Look, they're all in it together. They win and lose as a team, but Mangini didn't throw INTs, or fumble the ball. Those first two losses fall at the feet of the players, and you're using them to bolster your argument about bad coaching. And BTW, Holmgren brought in Delhomme & Wallace. Those two were personally responsible for turning the ball over in crucial situations, leading to points that cost us those games. So if you're talking about Mangini's KIND of players, then you're also talking about Holmgren's and Heckert's.
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we are NOT better than the 2007 squad both from a talent and record standpoint....even 2008 is debatable....I still have NOT seen a Mangini led game like the MNG beatdown of the NYG...and no the NO game doesn't qualify...I'm talking bout a game where we dominated on O, D and ST, against a pretty good team....we had spurts of ST and D dominattion (PIT game last year, NO this year)....then some good rushing games with less D (KC, OAK game come to mind)...but yet such a "complementary" game Mangini is aiming for...he talks and preaches it sine coming here...and I agree....but talk is cheap, I haven't seen it yet...and it's NOT happening on HIS watch
This is priceless. Maybe we should bring back RAC because of that game against the Giants. Lest you forget, he went 6-10, then 4-12, then went 4-12 again after a 10-6 season. So how is it a more talented, better coached team goes backward? You bag on Mangini's two 1-5 starts, but how many coaches actually regress every other year? BTW, in 00 we went 0-7, then in 01 we went 2-8 on the way to 2-14 & 3-13. No playoffs there. But hey, Palmer sucks, couldn't have possibly been lack of talent. Davis had us going 7-9 then 9-7 his first two years. Must've been the solid coaching and the ton of talent we had. Maybe we should get him back.
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no ones respecting us and Mangini for sure NOBODY...even the guys he loves to associate himself with no longer talk to him...he's a persona non grata in the league
See, it's when you write nonsense like this that you lose all credibility. You're pulling stuff outta your ass, and writing garbage about things you know nothing about.
Respond, don't respond, I don't care. I'm done. You're blathering inanely, but I get your bottom line:
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I hate him being our HC
I'm just glad you're not in charge. Go Browns!
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Has Harris even been active for an eagles game? If he's all that great, why aren't the eagles using him...
Just wondering out loud
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Missed in all this is that we also signed demetrius williams wr - formerly of the ravens. Lots of talent but injury history.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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And which part of 2.9 ypc don't you get? That's not a good change of pace, in anyone's book.
Harrison's a 4.6yd back....you seem to forget that little fact....and 4.6 is good for any back in this league
I didn't put words in your mouth, I didn't say you said he was a pro-bowler. So Apparently, you need learn how to read properly. It's nice the way you try to deflect so you can ignore the point.
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Wrong here about what? That he's an average fumbler? What I will admit is that while his fumbles in the preseason aren't counted in his stats, they do count in the coach's evaluation. You use stats to make your point, but ignore the fact that he consistently put the ball on the ground this year. Sack up and admit that. Dude. Also, dude, sack up and admit that you conveniently pull fragments of my comments for your B.S. "aha!" moments, while completely ignoring the points I've made.
Get your facts straight...I gave you overall numbers and 1 preseason fumble and 1 regular season fumble do not qualify as "consistently"....give it up, you were very wrong here...Hillis fumbled as much this season (and we all know the KC fumble was a bad call) and way more career wise...you really have no point here
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I'm not the only poster who saw that he's being used not to his strengths....and it'S not like Bell's 0yd AVG is beating it...and this another core point ot begin with: did we get better with Bell for Harrison? Doesn't look like anyway you look at it
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As far as Bell goes, at least he's seen the field. But this isn't about Bell, it's about you incoherently whining over spilled milk.
I advise you not to engage me with no points to make...the last paragraph to this sentence is proof for that...it IS about Harrison being dealt for Bell...at least he sees the field? Lol, yeah who cares how bad or worse he is...at least he sees the field....now that's a ringing endorsement for Mangini right there, who likes you knows talent
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The won/loss stat is skewed and incomplete. Skewed because practically every new head coach starting with a bottom ranked team starts out in the hole, and incomplete because it's not over yet. So yes, your stat is useless, and so is your argument about coaches getting fired for their record. How many get fired based on the record of 22 games? You're being just being ridiculous now.
The fact that you try shots at me personnaly at the end of every weak point you make pretty much tells the whole story...but for bottom line's sake: Crennel took over a worse team and had a better W%...and we all agree he was well below AVG HC, right? Soooo...and you're perfectly right, HCs don't get fired for their record...Jesus....
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Again, you pull only a part of my comment and take it out of context to make an invalid point. You use two 1-5 starts to bolster your argument about him being a bad coach, but ignore the face that he's won 6 of the past 11.
So you are allowed to pick out partly records and I'm not? Both are facts...but I consider the 1-5 starts more important because if you have 5 losses by week 6..well, too little too late already or not? and show me a Browns HC who started off worse in his 1st 2 seasons
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You try to put words in my mouth as a cheap way to duck the issue. The players got the lead when they executed, and lost it when they didn't. No need to spout nonsense to make a point.
Cool, so who's responsible FOR BOTH and ultiamtely the W-L? Can we agree that it's the HC....man you're all up into the Mangini rhetoric of "process" "Didn't execute" and bla bla. Romeo was right: he knew he was responsible...I don't see that with Mangini and you guys bought his post game deflections hook line and sinker
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That is truly funny. I know you're not trying to be comical, but I can hardly figure out what you're trying to say. Look, they're all in it together. They win and lose as a team, but Mangini didn't throw INTs, or fumble the ball.
So can we agree that the bus stops at his desk? The HC is responsible for the production ON the field...always been that way...some even say the output is a REFLECTION of the HC...in this particular case: what would that mean?
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This is priceless. Maybe we should bring back RAC because of that game against the Giants. Lest you forget, he went 6-10, then 4-12, then went 4-12 again after a 10-6 season. So how is it a more talented, better coach team goes backward? You bag on Mangini's two 1-5 starts, but how many coaches actually regress every other year?
Umm, which point of RAC is a well below AVG HC did you miss? It's not being better than that that is the problem here
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See, it's when you write nonsense like this that you lose all credibility. You're pulling stuff outta your ass, and writing garbage about things you know nothing about.
I've posted doezens articles and NFL news about this issue on this board....from credible sources, now working for NFL.com...most simply preferred to ignore them
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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It Tom Brady doesn't torch our secondary I will be surprised....
Well, Drew Brees didn't torch them, so I won't be totally surprised if Brady doesn't.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Harrison's a 4.6yd back
Not this year he isn't.... once again, thats you looking at things that make your statements more credible. here are the facts
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9731
Not that I expect you to understand or accept this, but when you do stuff like that your cred goes out the window. It's like an employee I used to have.. when I would go to review his performance with him, he'd always have a different set of stats that reflect his performance than I have.,
His always came with a bunch of "if''s" and "buts" and "maybes".. He was a good guy so I let it slide a couple of times and just worked with him to get his performance up.. it never happened..
I fired him..
In the words of Donald Trump... Django..........You're Fired
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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you guys are acting like "if Django said it, it's not true." A lot of what he's saying about Harrison is true.
He IS a 4.6 ypc runner for his career.
He DID have an instrumental role in saving Mangini's job at the end of last season.
(and yes, Holmgren did say the 4-game streak played a major role)
He DID NOT get much of an opportunity to play this year.
He DID have an inordinate number of his carries out of single-back set this year.
He DID get hit in the backfield right after getting the ball more than once.
He WAS more productive (while modestly) in his limited opportunities than Bell has been (7 carries at 0.0 ypc with a long run of 5) this year.
He statistically IS NOT a fumbler. The one fumble on the books for him this year wasn't even a fumble and Mangini said so himself.
Those are facts. Easily inferred are that a) for whatever reason he was in Mangini's doghouse, probably because of the whole "practice" issue and b) he didn't get a fair shake to make an impact, whether it be not enough opportunities or not the right opportunities.
If you don't agree with what Django's "take" on how it was handled, that's one thing, but his argument is factually-based.
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Let's not forget, though, that this is the 2nd coaching staff where Harrison has been in the doghouse.
Take it FWIW, I guess.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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you guys are acting like "if Django said it, it's not true." A lot of what he's saying about Harrison is true.
....
If you don't agree with what Django's "take" on how it was handled, that's one thing, but his argument is factually-based.
Tangent alert: Yeah, that is what we're getting at. His arguments are factually-based, but those facts are from the Django Book o' Football (the I-Hate-Mangini Collection). Django has had a nasty habit of tweaking stats lately to hammer on his point. His most egregious was the whole pass attempt stat thing for McCoy's first start. The crappy part is that Django makes good points, but then throws out these stinkers to keep the Mangini rants going.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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The actual arguments are only opinion-based and completely biased, and they are meaningless when prior years performance stats are tossed out as if they carry major weight regarding the reasoning behind decisions made this year, or used to find fault with the coach, or the decision in general. It's as if we're supposed to believe that last years statistics should guarantee a job, and the coach is incompetent if they don't. The stats aren't being disputed. It's the faulty, fabricated reasoning behind the decision making that's being disputed. Here is Mangini's take on Mike Bell and, within that, some actual reasoning behind the decision to trade Harrison for Bell. Taken from today's presser: (On if Mike Bell has been here long enough to get a sense for what he can do for the team) “I think each week that he’s here we get more and more of a familiarity but I think the things that we liked about him are the things we expect him to do here. He’s a tough, physical runner, he’s a downhill runner, he’s been good in pass protection, he’s a sharp guy, he’s got a lot of experience, a lot of play time and I think he complements Peyton (Hillis) well and I think he complements the running game well. In terms of how big his role will be game in and game out, that will be changing and evolving depending on the opponent depending on the plan. It’s the same thing with Thomas (Clayton). I think there are some similarities there between him and the other backs.” LinkPhysical runner, runs down hill, pass protects, and compliments the system. It doesn't get any clearer than that, and it succinctly describes everything that Harrison and Davis were not.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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