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Just adding a general observation,...they're both gone. I'm not going to get bundled up over this. Nobody screams anymore about Hank,...I got over that one. As I will this one. Good luck to all.
HAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK, WE MISS YOU HANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(sorry, couldn't resist) - speaking of Hank, he is backing up Brown at OC for the upstart Rams. anyone know if he's got some playing time yet this year?
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Cal, Makes sense. You can also see a little JH attitude in one of the quotes you put up. Mangini probably didn't care for that, but who knows. Daman, I dunno, I just would've thought we could've gotten more for him. That's not an indictment or anything, just an opinion. He has shown flashes of talent, is young and has a lot of tread left on his tires. I'd be ok with lumping him in with BE and Winslow by saying he probably wouldn't be back next year, so at least we got something for him. I just wish we could've gotten more. Maybe that was wishful thinking. Ytown, I dunno... what do you know? 
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I hear ya,, it's just that I get the feeling that sometimes the hate for Mangini kinda darkens the mind a bit much.
I just don't think for one second that they took one tiny bit less then what they could have gotten for him.
Then again it might have been that we just wanted Mike Bell,, in which case, they had what we wanted so we did the deal... who knows
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No hate for Mangini coming from over here. Sometimes some head-scratching and some raised eyebrows, though...
We got something for Harrison, which is better than nothing. Who knows, maybe Bell will show us something. He'll do at least as much as JH was doing for us.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Sometimes some head-scratching and some raised eyebrows, though...
I think we've all done that at one time or another. I will go on record right here and now as saying that Mangini has definitely made mistakes, and isn't the end all, be all of head coaches. But I do like the guy, and more to the point, I like the way the team is playing, and the direction the team is heading.
What ticks me off is the constant baseless bashing. When posters make legitimate points about coaching errors, I usually have little to say, because often I agree. But people tend to forget that every coach makes mistakes and bonehead decisions.
I imagine there was plenty of head-scratching going on in N.O. this week, and some happening in Cincy a few weeks ago. Belichick couldn't get out of his own way here, couldn't talk to the press, and was practically hung for ditching the beloved Bernie. Wade Phillips has a worse record than we do. Cowher went 14 years before bringing them a championship. As many division championships (8) and playoff births (9) as they had, and he still couldn't bring home the trophy. Think Cleveland, it's fans or the media would have had that kind of patience? Hell no. His head would have been demanded on a plate the first time he went 6-10 in '99 after going 7-9 the year before. It wasn't until six years later that he won it all. Show me a head coach, and I'll show you someone who's been fired before.
What I don't get is the vehement, venomous hatred for the man that is so personal. Like they know the guy, and boned their new brides while making them watch. The guy deserves a chance to do what he was brought here to do. But chances are, he'll get fired before that happens because so few have the patience to stick it out. It's sad really, this self-fulfilling prophesy of never being good enough, always sucking, and we'll continue to suck hind teat until someone gets the time to do this right. It ain't gonna happen over night, but you can't convince the majority that because, in Cleveland, the mob rules. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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It ain't gonna happen over night, but you can't convince the majority that because, in Cleveland, the mob rules.
We have one hedge against that, Cal... a hedge we never had before: Mike Holmgren. I think he's smart enough to do what's right for the team that pays him... no matter how much whimpering and howling comes from the Dawg Pound.
Now, for the first time since '99, adults are in charge. We may finally have a chance.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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He may be our only chance. I don't think he'll rush to fire Mangini this year as so many have put forth. In fact, I think they have similar mindsets and philosophies regarding the direction of the team. I may be wrong, but I think they work well together. With Holmgren's steady hand, Mangini's game plans, and Heckert's personnel decisions, we may finally have a chance to put together a real team, with a hard nose, take it to 'em, no quit identity. To paraphrase you from another thread, it's the way they play that has me excited. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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What will be funny is if/when the current regime is would win a Super Bowl, the nay sayers will complain that any coach could have won with that team. Then, if they dont' repeat, there will be cries of off with their head!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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No hate for Mangini coming from over here. Sometimes some head-scratching and some raised eyebrows, though...
We got something for Harrison, which is better than nothing. Who knows, maybe Bell will show us something. He'll do at least as much as JH was doing for us.
No No,, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was saying you hate mangini,,,, I was speaking in General... sorry bout that.,..
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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...and here's Mangini being a freakin hole...
"Jerome Harrison, who's recovering from a thigh injury did not show up on offense until the victory formation at the end."
Source: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/tj_ward_says_he_wont_change_hi.html
Wow, he got 6 carries vs ATL and was shut down and then traded...wow, I didn't know that...what a freaking classless behaviour....especially to a guy that saved your job and you publicly "endorsed" right before the game...to do him like that....wow, just wow....
If YOUR boss would stick it to you this way, you would flip too...I know I would....what a Q%&$ douche
That's one of the issues I brought up in one of the threads. It's no way to treat anybody. If he pissed you off and you want him gone. That's fine. You're the coach. But to do him like that was pure BS. There was no reason to disrespect him in front of his teammates, the fans and for that matter, the whole league.
Dude was plainly out to humiliate and embarrass him.
I wonder what H&H thought of that class act.
I wonder what the other players thought when they saw that.
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(On why Harrison was in at the end of the game for only the three kneel down plays)- “I can tell you Tony (Grossi), I wasn’t thinking about very much at that point besides, ‘Can we eat up all of this time right now and get in the right formation?’ I wasn’t thinking about who was in, I just wanted to make sure that we had the 11 and they were in the right spot. There was nothing more than that besides, ‘We can eat this up, right? Okay, great.’”
"I'm the head coach. I wasn't really paying attention." Yeah, right.
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As I said, Mangini-talk vs Mangini-do....of COURSE he isn't in his doghouse, yeah right...he also said he would use him BEFORE the game, ever heard of Coache's speak? Mangini's word doesn't mean anything....look at his actions ....not only did he not spell Hillis, he gave Davis the spot carries too..hello, McFly?...and then he inserts him on the kneel down? It's pretty 100% a jerk to mobbing move...or as Mangini calls em: message...very subtle Eric  Talk isn't reality, Cal...it's the actual actions...they tell the story...Eric is just rewriting/deflecting....as usual...rememeber when he said all the nice things about BE and KW all the time...so, what did he do? Actions, my friend, actions...not words
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...and here's Mangini being a freakin hole...
"Jerome Harrison, who's recovering from a thigh injury did not show up on offense until the victory formation at the end."
Source: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/tj_ward_says_he_wont_change_hi.html
Wow, he got 6 carries vs ATL and was shut down and then traded...wow, I didn't know that...what a freaking classless behaviour....especially to a guy that saved your job and you publicly "endorsed" right before the game...to do him like that....wow, just wow....
If YOUR boss would stick it to you this way, you would flip too...I know I would....what a Q%&$ douche
That's one of the issues I brought up in one of the threads. It's no way to treat anybody. If he pissed you off and you want him gone. That's fine. You're the coach. But to do him like that was pure BS. There was no reason to disrespect him in front of his teammates, the fans and for that matter, the whole league.
Dude was plainly out to humiliate and embarrass him.
I wonder what H&H thought of that class act.
I wonder what the other players thought when they saw that.
Ddub,, do some research,, Cal did and found that Django quoted him correctly but out of context.
Mangini wasn't out to embarrass anyone, that appears to be Djangos twisted logic at work... anything to bash Mangini is his motto.. now he's starting on McCoy...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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(On why Harrison was in at the end of the game for only the three kneel down plays)- “I can tell you Tony (Grossi), I wasn’t thinking about very much at that point besides, ‘Can we eat up all of this time right now and get in the right formation?’ I wasn’t thinking about who was in, I just wanted to make sure that we had the 11 and they were in the right spot. There was nothing more than that besides, ‘We can eat this up, right? Okay, great.’”
"I'm the head coach. I wasn't really paying attention." Yeah, right.
At that point do you think the coaches care too much who is out there?? As long as they have 11 people in the right formation then they don't care whose in the victory formation.
<><
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Out of context my @%$, get a clue dude...I copy/pasted a quote from an article I even posted...what Cal meant with "out of context" is him being all over EM's crotch...my quote was a fact....I posted Mangini's ACTIONS....Cal just "made clear" that he takes Mangini's "words" over his actual actions....and you just made clear that you "believe" him more than me...it's ok, but could you please counter with football related arguments instead of poor tries to discredit my posts with stupid remarks
Stop stalking me, talk football....take down my arguments if you can...if you just know how to defend your stance with personal BS, it's pretty tellling about the strength of your point made
#gmstrong
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Django, I am going to suggest that you follow your own advice. TALK FOOTBALL. There at least you have some ground to stand on, make some sense, and seem reasonable.
Your constant, unrelenting, irrational Mangini bashing is making me wonder if you might have some sort of mental disease or defect. Seriously, just leave the Mangini crap out. I have yet to use the Ignore feature and you sometimes make good points. But the Mangini-babble is just getting to be more than I can take. There's just no point to it.
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Yeah...no point...he is NOT the HC of the Browns  he's not important...and he never put Harrison in on the kneel down after giving every other RB carries and telling US, through the media, that he's gonna use him Sorry folks, I was wrong...I have no point...you are right with everything you said...I have a mental disease, they call it rationality, or reason, sometimes sanity...they say it's ok to live with as long as I don't insist of making too much sense....apparently that's what I just did, sorry for that Me talk pretty one day, they assured me of that...until then, please have patience with me
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Ddub,, do some research,, Cal did and found that Django quoted him correctly but out of context.
For one thing, I never took Django's posted quote as him trying to pass it off as a Mangini quote. I'd read it before in an article. Probably from the one Cal posted. When I read it in Django's post I took it as something he saw that made him think. Not at all like he thought he was quoting Mangini.
Besides, it's obvious in the way it's written that it didn't come from a presser. ("Jerome Harrison, who's recovering from a thigh injury did not show up on offense until the victory formation at the end.") Nobody talks like that. Especially a coach, or anyone, talking to the media. It has a journalisticly written structure. You might hear a news anchor say it like that but certainly no regular person.
Anyway, I wasn't paying any attention to that quote in developing my opinion.
This was already my own opinion two weeks earlier as I brought this instance up back on Oct 14th, the day after he was traded. Probably after seeing that quote in the article and doing my own research.
You can see it for yourself on the last page of the Harrison thread discussing his trade...
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And one move, which I felt was intentionally meant to embarrass, humiliate and deflate Harrison was to have him stand on the sideline and watch the entire bengals game with no carries and then trot him out for the final three plays in the victory formation. Just put yourself in that situation as a player, linger on the thought for a minute, and decide how you would take that. Probably not well.
Surely a head coach has better methods of how to get a point across. After seeing this I doubt it's the only instance whereby he was treated wrongly. We don't see anything but the games. And that particular instance was probably the tip of the ice burg. It's been said of Harrison as a negative when he publicly said he didn't know what his role was. He shouldn't have said that. But did any of us know what is role was?
Mangini was making a point to Harrison in a most ignorant way. You'd have thought Harrison insulted his wife or something. Is that any way for a head coach to treat any player? I don't think so. If he wanted to make a point he should have sacked up and spoke with Harrison in a strong and deliberate manner. Instead he shows him up and deflates him in front of his teammates and basically says to him, "FU, I'm the boss". The rest of the players watched that and I'm sure more than a couple wondered wtf?. That is, unless Jerome was one hell of an ass, constantly questioning the head coach and being a locker room cancer. But we've never heard anything about it.
One mark of a good coach is to understand the psyche of individual players and know how to get the best out of each. So humiliation must have been decided as the best way to motivate Jerome.
I'm not sure there's a precedence for that sort of treatment.
So Harrison is gone to a team who will know how to use him and best of all for him is he doesn't have to spend his every day wondering why he's being treated like crap by the guy who wouldn't even be a head coach today if it weren't for his lights out running at the end of last season.
I felt then and do now that it was a classless move on the coach's part.
If there's a kneel down package and Jerome was on it I think Mangini would have said so in his answer when he was asked about it in his presser. That's the easy answer. Easy that is if it's the truth. I'm betting there is a kneel down package, (why not, there's a package for everything else), and Mangini inserted Harrison in it. Otherwise he would have simply stated he was on that package.
Instead he makes it sound like they were scrambling to get guys on the field. That he just wanted to make sure they had 11 out there in the right spot and he didn't know or care who they were. (I got an idea, how about running the guys out there who had been running out there for the entire game?) To me, he was speaking like time was of the essence when actually they had all the time in the world since they were simply running out the clock.
I don't care for his answer.
As Django says, it's not about what anybody says, it's about what they do.
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Ddub,, do some research,, Cal did and found that Django quoted him correctly but out of context.
For one thing, I never took Django's posted quote as him trying to pass it off as a Mangini quote. I'd read it before in an article. Probably from the one Cal posted. When I read it in Django's post I took it as something he saw that made him think. Not at all like he thought he was quoting Mangini.
Besides, it's obvious in the way it's written that it didn't come from a presser. ("Jerome Harrison, who's recovering from a thigh injury did not show up on offense until the victory formation at the end.") Nobody talks like that. Especially a coach, or anyone, talking to the media. It has a journalisticly written structure. You might hear a news anchor say it like that but certainly no regular person.
Anyway, I wasn't paying any attention to that quote in developing my opinion.
This was already my own opinion two weeks earlier as I brought this instance up back on Oct 14th, the day after he was traded. Probably after seeing that quote in the article and doing my own research.
You can see it for yourself on the last page of the Harrison thread discussing his trade...
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And one move, which I felt was intentionally meant to embarrass, humiliate and deflate Harrison was to have him stand on the sideline and watch the entire bengals game with no carries and then trot him out for the final three plays in the victory formation. Just put yourself in that situation as a player, linger on the thought for a minute, and decide how you would take that. Probably not well.
Surely a head coach has better methods of how to get a point across. After seeing this I doubt it's the only instance whereby he was treated wrongly. We don't see anything but the games. And that particular instance was probably the tip of the ice burg. It's been said of Harrison as a negative when he publicly said he didn't know what his role was. He shouldn't have said that. But did any of us know what is role was?
Mangini was making a point to Harrison in a most ignorant way. You'd have thought Harrison insulted his wife or something. Is that any way for a head coach to treat any player? I don't think so. If he wanted to make a point he should have sacked up and spoke with Harrison in a strong and deliberate manner. Instead he shows him up and deflates him in front of his teammates and basically says to him, "FU, I'm the boss". The rest of the players watched that and I'm sure more than a couple wondered wtf?. That is, unless Jerome was one hell of an ass, constantly questioning the head coach and being a locker room cancer. But we've never heard anything about it.
One mark of a good coach is to understand the psyche of individual players and know how to get the best out of each. So humiliation must have been decided as the best way to motivate Jerome.
I'm not sure there's a precedence for that sort of treatment.
So Harrison is gone to a team who will know how to use him and best of all for him is he doesn't have to spend his every day wondering why he's being treated like crap by the guy who wouldn't even be a head coach today if it weren't for his lights out running at the end of last season.
I felt then and do now that it was a classless move on the coach's part.
If there's a kneel down package and Jerome was on it I think Mangini would have said so in his answer when he was asked about it in his presser. That's the easy answer. Easy that is if it's the truth. I'm betting there is a kneel down package, (why not, there's a package for everything else), and Mangini inserted Harrison in it. Otherwise he would have simply stated he was on that package.
Instead he makes it sound like they were scrambling to get guys on the field. That he just wanted to make sure they had 11 out there in the right spot and he didn't know or care who they were. (I got an idea, how about running the guys out there who had been running out there for the entire game?) To me, he was speaking like time was of the essence when actually they had all the time in the world since they were simply running out the clock.
I don't care for his answer.
As Django says, it's not about what anybody says, it's about what they do.
Harrison rode his own ticket out of town.......
He never received PT until the end of last season---this has lasted through two regimes.....
Mind you, TWO regimes.
Then....with JL taking an early exit---we are making due with JH...
He kills it.
Next year....we get a new FO---we pick up other RB's...
Harrison is in the mix---but HC/FO wants him to take the rb spot.
Screw last year.....doesn't matter.
This is a fair strategy......if we want you to earn the position......then you must earn the position.
And practice/camp............this is what counts.
What is happening NOW........
Harrison went through the drills like he ALREADY had the position...NOT the case....NOT this team.
Soooooo.....
Trough practice---Harrison falls behind----waiting to be catered to----as if he is anointed the starter......
Doesn't happen with this team.
Hillis supplants JH as starter......
And there is very little argument that can go against Hilis production this year......
Harrison becomes expendable---B/C
he doesn't give the effort to stay in the mix.
We found players willing to out--compete him.
And so that is that........
If he takes offense to the victory formation and reads into it........then that is his deal....
If he feels like we are saying that we can win without him----Well; We Can......
JH bought his own ticket out of town.....And Mangini is our coach----and he will be
get used to it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Who cares if we sent him out for the final 3 plays.....I don't.
My guess is the guy was a pain in the butt the last few weeks here, complaining about play time ....so, OK, here, here is some play time.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Again, fast players on a kneel down makes sense in case of a broken play. If you need to chase down a play, a fast RB makes sense.
If they worst thing a coach ever did was put a guy in for the voctory formation only ..... I don't think I would complain too much. That whole aspect of the debate is much ado about nothing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My guess is the guy was a pain in the butt the last few weeks here, complaining about play time
I've seen this sentiment many times and I've always thought it was, frankly, BS.
Seriously, if you had set the records at the end of the year that Harrison did and then the next year were treated as if you had leprosy wouldn't you be a little ticked off?
No one knows what goes on in the locker room or the practice field so this "Well, we traded/waived/benched this guy so he must be a malcontent turd" mentality is crap. Look back. We've dumped some decent guys. It happens. It doesn't mean he was a "jackwagon" (to quote a well known commercial).
All it means is that this coach didn't like him. Nothing more.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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My guess is the guy was a pain in the butt the last few weeks here, complaining about play time
I've seen this sentiment many times and I've always thought it was, frankly, BS.
Seriously, if you had set the records at the end of the year that Harrison did and then the next year were treated as if you had leprosy wouldn't you be a little ticked off?
No one knows what goes on in the locker room or the practice field so this "Well, we traded/waived/benched this guy so he must be a malcontent turd" mentality is crap. Look back. We've dumped some decent guys. It happens. It doesn't mean he was a "jackwagon" (to quote a well known commercial).
All it means is that this coach didn't like him. Nothing more.
I agree. Gini' doesn't like him, or it could be his style of play. All the people saying he was complaining.. Jerome Harrison isn't that kind of guy, and never was here in Cleveland. And he was never respected since Day 1... He may have been one of those guys that Savage drafted and liked, but the coaches didn't.
I'm sure Harrison's feelings could have been shown in his demeanor, but I would probably be the same way.
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It is not rational, reasonable, or sane to constantly obsess over what someone's else motivations for a particular action might be. It's all speculation, anyway. You seem convinced that you KNOW the mental processes of another person, when that is just not possible. You also hold that individual solely responsible when the previous HC gave JH even fewer chances than Mangini did.
I am not a licensed mental health professional, but I do have some training in this area. I am not kidding, IMO you may be suffering from a real psychological issue. An irrational focus on one single person as the cause of all your problems is not healthy. A form of paranoia coupled with some displacement issues would be a guess. The constant general negativity could be another symptom.
As I suggested, TALK FOOTBALL. Neither you, nor anyone else, knows what the coach is thinking. You, and all of us, see the game on the field. When you stick to what you see on the field, your input is often useful and valuable. When you speculate on the coach's thoughts, to be honest you sound like a loonie, and by that I do not mean a typical Browns fan loonie, but a white-coat and rubber-room mental patient.
Now, how many times was JH run up the gut, as opposed to how many times was he given the ball outside the tackle box, either on a run or pass? Was he being used in the most effective manner? Is our line not equipped for the types of plays JH is best at? How many times was he tackled behind the LOS, and how many of those for Hillis? Even counting just initial contact, to correct for Hillis ability to break tackles, was Hillis beating JH to the hole?
Personally, I thought JH had some talent and abilities we could use. For some reason, TWO different coaches decided not to do so. OK, he's gone, end of story. No grand evil conspiracy that I can see.
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Harrison rode his own ticket out of town.......
He never received PT until the end of last season---this has lasted through two regimes.....
Mind you, TWO regimes.
I don't really care that Harrison is gone. I am concerned that we only have Hillis and Bell and now lack a smaller, speedier back. But then again, the Browns have had no idea of how to use a back like that anyway.
My point is not that it bothers me that Harrison is gone. My only point is the classless move Mangini made at the end of the bengals game which could only result in Harrison's embarrassment and humiliation. Not a professional move in my opinion.
#gmstrong
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Interesting....as I alreay said, I'm completely retarded...sorry for that Jesus, if just I could fire away with what I think some of you posters are or what you lack (guess what?) I would be banned in a nano second....but you guys are dishing out psychological assessments of me....funny stuff, at least you got me laughing Also, you do that and at the same time tell me I can't do that with Mangini....see the irony? Since we can'T put any weight on what Mangini says (he endorsed all kinds of guys, players "friends" like Kokinis) just to trade/fire/cut them shortly after...all we have left to base our OPINIONS on (because, you know...that's what this board is all about...do I really need to write JMHO under every post of mine to make that clear?) are ACTIONS, what the guy actually does or doesn't.... Mangini is not the only problem, we have more.....but since he's the HC, they say it's a pretty important job on a NFL team, and he was the 09 offseason crapper (setting us back for years) he deserves all kind of blame....I call em like I se em...I even gave Mangini kudos for the NO game and you know why? Because for a change he deserved them....I don't care for the guy or hate him, I just hate him as our HC...I happen to think he's not good for the Browns...that's JMHO on Harrison: I and other posters already did what you asked....all came to the conclusion that he wasn't used properly....it's the Coache's job to do this or know what he can/cannot do
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Never accused you of below-average intelligence. Not once. That is something you do often, conjure things out of thin air.
You are not interested in my psych assessment of you, Excellent, NO ONE is interested in your psych assessment of our HC. Your clear bias and unrelenting negativity is what makes the opinions you offered worthless.
"He hates this player, he has no class" - BS, I don't care if the HC takes a dump on a players head or drinks the wrong wine with his fish, is doing a good job with the team and the players he has is all I am interested in. Nope, we haven't hit the playoffs yet but IMO and that of many others THIS COACH has gotten us closer than we have been in a long time to starting along that path.
The specific points on Harrison you correctly note have already been discussed, though there is some debate. You also correctly note many others, including yourself, have been involved in this discussion. Good. This is football. However, very few, if any, have engaged in the kind of personal dislike for the HC that you display so clearly. You are nearly alone on this.
I am asking you to let it go precisely because I value some of your other insights and would prefer to continue reading them. The Mangini crap is just making me want to puke, it's just so damn old, just let it go.
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Your clear bias and unrelenting negativity is what makes the opinions you offered worthless.
Worthless in the sense that I (and from the sound of things many others) bypass his posts because of it.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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My guess is the guy was a pain in the butt the last few weeks here, complaining about play time
I've seen this sentiment many times and I've always thought it was, frankly, BS.
Seriously, if you had set the records at the end of the year that Harrison did and then the next year were treated as if you had leprosy wouldn't you be a little ticked off?
No one knows what goes on in the locker room or the practice field so this "Well, we traded/waived/benched this guy so he must be a malcontent turd" mentality is crap. Look back. We've dumped some decent guys. It happens. It doesn't mean he was a "jackwagon" (to quote a well known commercial).
All it means is that this coach didn't like him. Nothing more.
I agree his not playing means he wasn't liked....be it his game or his personality. That isn't hard to figure out.
It doesn't explain why he was traded.
If Harrison was a great locker room guy/team player, he would probably still be here.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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First I do not understand why people are so up in arms about James Davis or Jerome Harrison...Seriously..James Davis is a sixth round pick..has done absolutely Nothing for this team..He is on Washingtons Practice squad now..If he started getting a bad attitude..there is no room for that here and now..we got rid of more high profile players than James Davis and Jerome Harrison for their Bad attitudes and if I;m not getting the ball I'm not happy attitude. This is a good locker room, and players that don't want to be part of a team philosophy, are not going to last here.
Second, Mike Holmgren is the President and Heckert the GM..Whther or not Mangini is here or not...they will not get rid of players they feel are an integral part of our future or success. Mangini didn't make those moves and if he offered up his recomendation..They could have said to suck it up..knowing they could help in the future. So this is not Mangini making the final call, this is a GM that thinks less of the players that some of you have rated very highly for your own reasons, not taking into account that Next year Hardesty will be back and we will be looking at Hardesty and Hillis..with Guys like Clayton and Bell that know their roles and not trying to go against the grain. Harrison wanted to be a feature back..and that was not going to happen here..now or in the future..and I doubt he will ever be a feature back in this league. He showed up this year expecting to be handed a job...and when he wasn't..came out and gave the kind of effort Braylon gave before he was dealt..It was so obvious..I hardly believe that Mangini even had to say a word..and Heckert acted on his own. I have yet to see the usual suspects blaming the higher ranking personell for these moves. Instead blaming a coach that has no power to make these moves. If that was the case..thank Mangini for drafting Haden and Ward and signing Fujita and Watson. I think some of you might be miffed that others have the same philosophy as what Mangini preached..and not happy that they are making moves with irrelevant players and it looks like they understand the talent deficiency and looks like they are building a team with Mangini in their plans..
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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well no loyal...
contrary to yours and some other peoples beliefs...it went like this...
Holmgren and Heckert signed/drafted/traded:
Mack, Haden, Ward, Lauvao, Larry Asante, Mike Adams, David Bowens, Sheldon Brown, Josh Cribbs, Costanzo, McCoy, Rogers, Fujita, Gocong, Evan Moore, Ben Watson, Roth, Benard, Hillis, Joe Thomas, Derek Anderson (saving us from further torture), and Seneca Wallace...which are all savvy moves
Mangini signed/drafted/traded:
Winslow and Edwards (the most successful Browns in years), Quinn (who never had a fair shake because of him), Screwed and Banished Harrison who was destined to take us to the SB), Delhomme (who is washed up), Veikune, Robiskie, Massaquoi, Maiava (who is never going to be more than a backup...AS A 4th rounder! he should be in the pro bowl!), Hardesty, Banished Davis, and St. Clair who is the reason our OL is so bad, as well as every other mistake of our franchise.
Just wanted to clear that up for everyone
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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 I *really* hope you are being completely and totally sarcastic.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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i thought Gini' brought in/ drafted MACK.
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well no loyal...
contrary to yours and some other peoples beliefs...it went like this...
Holmgren and Heckert signed/drafted/traded:
Mack, Haden, Ward, Lauvao, Larry Asante, Mike Adams, David Bowens, Sheldon Brown, Josh Cribbs, Costanzo, McCoy, Rogers, Fujita, Gocong, Evan Moore, Ben Watson, Roth, Benard, Hillis, Joe Thomas, Derek Anderson (saving us from further torture), and Seneca Wallace...which are all savvy moves
Mangini signed/drafted/traded:
Winslow and Edwards (the most successful Browns in years), Quinn (who never had a fair shake because of him), Screwed and Banished Harrison who was destined to take us to the SB), Delhomme (who is washed up), Veikune, Robiskie, Massaquoi, Maiava (who is never going to be more than a backup...AS A 4th rounder! he should be in the pro bowl!), Hardesty, Banished Davis, and St. Clair who is the reason our OL is so bad, as well as every other mistake of our franchise.
Just wanted to clear that up for everyone
#gmstrong
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Holmgren and Heckert signed/drafted/traded:
Mack, Mike Adams, David Bowens, Costanzo, Rogers, Evan Moore, Roth, Benard, Joe Thomas,
Okay I'm confused here. What are you talking about? Please enlighten me if you're being sarcastic or not. Those signings were because of Mangini and Mack was drafted by him. Why did you bring up Joe?
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All Pro
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Django, if observing reality and the doublespeak of mangini and seeing a discrepancy is indicative of a mental disorder, or to use a stronger term" an irrational hatred of mangini" then i too must be suffering a similar mental challenge. Django did you not understand any break from the rank an file must be attacked. Sometimes this board seems like some Zombie movie where the consensus must attack the living flesh from any opinion not shared. Happy Halloween, Mangini has half a season to keep his job.
Ohh the Zombies are coming, I spoke an independent thought.
Oh and dumping Harrison for a straggler who has more suitcase stickers than a sideshow carney was a sound move as was cutting a back like Davis who showed some real pop. They were not "mangini men" it seems, whatever that means.
Last edited by akronjoe; 10/31/10 09:52 AM.
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My 2 cents on all of this about getting rid of Harrison and Davis?
Simple. The sum of the parts must be greater than the individual parts themselves.
You know which couple of teams have the most pure "talent" in the league?
NFC: Dallas.
AFC: Cincinnati.
Obviously that's debatable ... but the "teams" that win are those where 11 guys buy into one concept. And the ones who have guys that have a "me first" attitude, they seem to have a little bit more problems week in and week out.
Its not about any one player, its about how all 53 come together to form the best browns team.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Oh and dumping Harrison for a straggler who has more suitcase stickers than a sideshow carney was a sound move as was cutting a back like Davis who showed some real pop. They were not "mangini men" it seems, whatever that means.
I'm 99 per cent sure Heckert had major input (if not the final say) on these roster movements, but some of you only want to blame Mangini.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I think what KingSteve is trying to say is that: according to many members of this board every good or contributing player on the Browns was brought in by Heckert/Holmgren whereas every player we have that stinks was acquired by Mangini and every talented player that we traded was traded away by Mangini.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I can't believe that people are confused about Kingsteve's post.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns waive James
Davis, sign RB Thomas Clayton
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