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Assessing the Cleveland Browns at the midpoint of the 2010 season: Tony Grossi analysis
Published: Saturday, October 30, 2010, 11:53 PM Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns are 2-5 at their bye weekend, just one game better than they were a year ago.
But they draw encouragement from these factors:
• They're scoring more points and allowing fewer. Their point differential was an noncompetitive minus-107 at this point in 2009. It's minus-24 today.
• They have shown improvements in every major offensive and defensive category.
• Against a decidedly tougher schedule, they have been in every game in the fourth quarter. Coach Eric Mangini's team is physical and plays to the end.
• They have weeded out players deemed to not fit with Mangini's "core characteristics."
• Because of injuries, they have had to play three quarterbacks. Now they appear to be getting at least one back.
Still, 2-5 is 2-5.
"Turnovers, penalties. I think those two things are big reasons why we haven't won games," Mangini said. "To date, we've had a very challenging schedule and it doesn't get any easier in the weeks to come, but that's just the way it is."
The Browns' turnover differential has recovered to a net of zero. They were minus-7 at this point last year. Penalties this year are up slightly, 43 to 35, an increase of about one per game.
Lost opportunities in losses to Tampa Bay and Kansas City to begin the season dug the hole from which the Browns now reside. The rapid-fire ankle injuries to quarterbacks Jake Delhomme (Games 1 and 5) and Seneca Wallace (Game 5) forced the Browns to scrap plans to redshirt rookie Colt McCoy all season.
All of which sets up two prominent storylines for the remaining nine games:
• How many games does Mangini need to win for his program to continue in 2011?
• At which point do the Browns play McCoy on a regular basis to evaluate him before making off-season plans?
Here's a closer look at the highs and lows of the first half of the 2010 season.
PLEASANT SURPRISES
Mangini listed them this way:
1. Defensive flexibility. 2. Improvement in passing the ball. 3. Improvement in defending the run. 4. Nose tackle Ahtyba Rubin establishing himself "as a young, emerging, solid player." 5. The acclimation of new linebackers Scott Fujita and Chris Gocong into the defense. 6. Linebacker Matt Roth's continual development as an outside linebacker in Mangini's defense. 7. Incorporating a large pool of players in the defense. 8. The play of rookie defensive backs T.J. Ward and Joe Haden. 9. The play of Colt McCoy in two difficult starting assignments on the road. 10. The late emergence to the active roster of rookie receiver Carlton Mitchell.
DISAPPOINTMENTS
Mangini listed them this way:
1. Tackling needs more improvement, particularly against the run. 2. Too many big pass plays allowed. 3. More consistency from the running game. 4. Pass protection has been below standards, at times.
BEST VETERAN ACQUISITIONS
Offense: Running back Peyton Hillis.
The "throw-in" in the Brady Quinn trade with Denver has become the identity of the offense with his punishing running style. Hillis is on pace for 1,051 yards and 11 rushing touchdowns. He iced both wins with pummeling runs in the fourth quarter against Cincinnati and New Orleans.
Defense: Linebacker Scott Fujita.
He impressed his new teammates immediately and was elected a defensive co-captain before he ever recorded a tackle. His versatility to play outside and inside -- from down to down -- has been exploited by coordinator Rob Ryan. Capped by an emotional performance against his former team in New Orleans, Fujita is second in tackles and sacks and leads the defense with two forced fumbles.
BEST ROOKIES
Offense: Quarterback Colt McCoy.
Opportunity knocked in Games 6 and 7 and McCoy answered. He didn't light up the scoreboard, but he didn't crawl into a hole, either, in hostile assignments in Pittsburgh and New Orleans. A season-ending knee injury to running back Montario Hardesty and a high ankle sprain suffered by guard Shawn Lauvao prior to Game 1 knocked them out of the running.
Defense: Safety T.J. Ward.
He leads the defense in tackles (54) and intimidation, and he's third in special teams tackles. His illegal hit on Cincinnati's Jordan Shipley drew a $15,000 fine. Lucky for him it came a week before the league announced a crackdown on dangerous helmet hits to "defenseless" players.
GOOD THINGS YOU DIDN'T SEE COMING
1. Punter Reggie Hodges took over when Dave Zastudil didn't recover from off-season knee surgery and has steadily improved. He has had two monster games in a row -- dropping four of five punts inside the 10 in Pittsburgh and surprising New Orleans with a 68-yard run on a fake punt. Hodges' fifth-ranked net average of 40.2 yards is a tribute to him and the coverage unit.
2. David Bowens' two interception returns for touchdowns against New Orleans were his first touchdowns on defense in 159 career games. He thought he might not survive the final roster cut and was inactive in Game 1.
3. Linebacker Marcus Benard's team-leading 4.5 sacks gives him eight in 12 games played since being promoted from the practice squad in 2009.
BAD THINGS YOU DIDN'T SEE COMING
1. Cornerbacks Eric Wright and Sheldon Brown have been beaten for eight touchdown passes. Whether it's poor blitzing or miscommunication, that's a huge figure for a half-season.
2. Receivers Mohamed Massaquoi and Brian Robiskie raised hopes of stepping up their games in their second seasons with good showings in the preseason. But with nine and eight receptions, respectively, criticism of GM Tom Heckert for not bringing in a playmaking receiver certainly was warranted.
3. The running back depth chart was turned upside down by the injury to Hardesty, a trade of Jerome Harrison to Philadelphia and the release of James Davis.
FIVE THINGS TO WATCH
1. How does Mangini manage the quarterback position over the last nine games?
2. Will the throwback trick play on the punt in New Orleans loosen things up for Josh Cribbs in the return game?
3. Does the upset win in New Orleans carry over through the bye week and result in similar upsets over New England and the Jets in the next two home games?
4. Will Jake Delhomme make it back to the field this year?
5. What impact will Shaun Rogers make at end in the 3-4 alignment?
WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
Rookie running back Montario Hardesty missed 27 days of camp and three preseason games when he suffered a bone bruise on his right knee in rookie practices the week before training camp. Then he tore the ACL of his left knee in his only appearance in the fourth preseason game.
So the risky second-round pick who had numerous injuries at Tennessee, including a torn ACL of his right knee, is out for the season.
He had surgery five weeks ago performed by noted sports surgeon Dr. James Andrews of Birmingham, Ala. Hardesty reported this week that his rehab is going well and he intends to be back for the 2011 season.
"I was definitely down at first. Who wouldn't be?" he said of the latest knee injury. "I definitely wanted to come out and make a good impact my rookie year. But it's not the end of things. Right now, I'm going hard to get better. I feel like once I get healthy, things will work themselves out."
Hardesty carried only seven times in the fateful exhibition game for 25 yards. Three times he gained six yards. Another time he burrowed behind blockers for a one-yard TD.
"I wanted to come out and show what I could do on the field," he said. "I still have that same chip on my shoulder. I've got a lot of things I want to prove. I definitely want to show the organization and I want to show the fans they definitely made a good pick. But I've got to just take it slow and make sure I do everything I need to do to get back healthy."
In Hardesty's absence, Peyton Hillis emerged as the feature running back and gave the offense its identity as a physical running unit.
Nobody knows what might have been.
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good read  IMO, we clearly have better depth on the roster than at any time since 1999. When someone gets hurt the world doesn't come to an end. Our back-ups are now " NFL back-up" quality instead of AFL quality. Our OL and DL have had injuries and there has not been a total collapse.. now, if we can just get a few very good players 
Last edited by Line Judge; 10/31/10 07:26 AM.
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The kickoff * Everyone is waiting to see how the quarterback situation plays out for the Browns over the remaining nine games. Here is what I think will happen: * Seneca Wallace will be cleared to practice this week. Barring a setback with his high ankle sprain, he starts the New England game. * At some point in the season, Colt McCoy is reinserted as the starter. How soon depends on Wallace’s performance and the team’s record. But it will happen. * Jake Delhomme’s twice-injured ankle keeps him off the field the rest of the year. There already is internal discussion about IR’ing Delhomme to use his roster spot for another player. * Eric Mangini will continue to keep opponents guessing. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/a_football_fans_guide_to_the_e.html 
Go Browns!!!
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if a half decent player comes available on waivers, then IR Delhomme
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WOW,, I'm shocked.. I'm not used to seeing something decent out of Grossi.. In years gone by, he'd have taken the positives that he's seeing today and somehow turned them into a negative or in some fashion marginalize them.. What's up with Grossi?  Shep, thanks for the read.., it's hard to argue with what he's saying.. it's actually a fair and balanced report. OK Tony,, you can now at least stick your head out of my doghouse.. keep this up and you'll be running free in the yard by years end 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
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Quote:
WOW,, I'm shocked.. I'm not used to seeing something decent out of Grossi..
In years gone by, he'd have taken the positives that he's seeing today and somehow turned them into a negative or in some fashion marginalize them..
What's up with Grossi? 
Shep, thanks for the read.., it's hard to argue with what he's saying.. it's actually a fair and balanced report.
OK Tony,, you can now at least stick your head out of my doghouse.. keep this up and you'll be running free in the yard by years end
Your shocked!
I think Tony is the one who is shocked. He was pretty critical of our last draft IIRC.
To his credit he is not trying to put a spin on his former opinions.
It was a pretty fair assessment I thought, but then it's not like he said anything 'new' to anyone who follows the team as do many fans.
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I'm ok with where Mangini has the team right now. I hate some of his ignorant ways but the team has definitely shown improvement.
We win those first two games in which we gave them the points to beat us, (a pick-6 in the first game and a pick-6 and a gimmie field goal in the second), and we're 4-3 which is a hell of a lot better than where we stand now. We were really close in the Rats game as well.
I know close don't count but last season at this time we weren't even close.
#gmstrong
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I know close don't count but last season at this time we weren't even close.
This says it all for me. After all the stats and the win/loss record are taken into account, a fan simply MUST also look at the quality and style of play from his team to complete his evaluation.... if he's peforming 'due diligence,' that is.
When you evaluate on that level, this is a very, very different team than we saw at the halfway point of last year.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Exactly...last year, when we played teams that had something to play for (save for the last game v Pit) we competed til halftime and then fell apart.
This year...we have leads until the 4th Q...and that says ALOT for the coaching. For the talent, well, you look for the late game production.
"It has to start somewhere It has to start somehow What better place than here? What better time than now?"
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It was a pretty fair assessment.
The thing that really bothers me is the lack of production from Robiskie/Mass. Most people saw this as an obvious team weakness. They were right.
Evan Moore and Ben Watson have been most of the pass offense. That should have been noted.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
It was a pretty fair assessment.
I agree, except for the deal with TJ Ward being the best rookie defender.
I would say he's one of the two best rookies we got in the draft this year, and he's definitely impressed me, but Joe Haden is the more complete player in my book. Given they play different positions, Haden has been really good IMO. TJ Ward has dropped easy interceptions and isn't that great in coverage, but he's a strong safety, and he'll probably be good too.
But Joe Haden has played great, and if he isn't already (which I feel like he basically is, he gets a lot of snaps), he should be a starting corner on this team. I just feel like Haden will be our man-to-man corner against opposing team's best players AKA Boldin, 85, or whoever is out there. He's really good, I still think that stupid article about him being "too slow" to play corner is ridiculous. What moron wrote that article, didn't he used to work for us? I'd love to send him that with some game footage. Label it, Stop Hatin' on Haden
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Ward is a starter who leads the team in tackles. Hayden has played well and I think he will be the superior player but as of now Grossi is right.
#gmstrong
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General Reply: I am sorry I just see all this praise for a 2 win team and its hilarious. I dont get it.
You take a fairly talented team although they were riddled with injuries and turn them into the worst team to ever step on the field and now u have them contending for the #1 draft pick and its rainbows and roses.
Man if Mangini wins 6 games he may get a statue lol. Its like the kid that is beaten by his parents twice a day. He becomes a foster child and his foster parents beat him twice a week. Those foster parents are an improvement but ...
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Quote:
Ward is a starter who leads the team in tackles. Hayden has played well and I think he will be the superior player but as of now Grossi is right.
I guess we simply disagree. Guys like Ben Taylor and Andra Davis also led the team in tackles too.
You can't really expect Haden to outperform him on that stat. Besides that, there's really no one to dethrone Ward from being a starter, Mike Adams?
Otherwise, as I said, Haden hasn't gotten the credit he deserves. He's outplayed Sheldon Brown and Eric Wright. Not only that, but he's gotta play at least 50% of our snaps. Joe Haden gets plenty of playing time.
Otherwise, I guess we just see things differently on Sundays. From watching every game, I've just found Haden to be consistently good. I'd like to see him get challenged some more and play that number one corner position. I dunno if he's as money as Leigh Bodden was his rookie/2nd year (although I think Bodden only got a game or two in his rookie year), but he sort of reminds me of him. Physical, man-to-man corner.And Bodden would have been much better had it not been for the ankle injuries which slowed him down. So yeah, I'd like to see Haden match up with opponent's number 1 receivers week in and out. I definitely think he's deserved it, he is better than Sheldon Brown, and probably Eric Wright too
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Quote:
General Reply: I am sorry I just see all this praise for a 2 win team and its hilarious. I dont get it.
You take a fairly talented team although they were riddled with injuries and turn them into the worst team to ever step on the field and now u have them contending for the #1 draft pick and its rainbows and roses.
Man if Mangini wins 6 games he may get a statue lol. Its like the kid that is beaten by his parents twice a day. He becomes a foster child and his foster parents beat him twice a week. Those foster parents are an improvement but ...
Mour, If your sole definition of "building a program" is W/L's, then you have a point.
But I personally would like to see this team develop over the long-term with a solid foundation for a "real program". This is the early stages of this. Since you enjoy analogies, try this one: Mangini bought a fixer-upper property. Instead of "flipping it" by cheaply upgrading the it, he decided to do it right. First, you have to tear down the house to properly rebuild it. Last year was an ugly trash dumpster sitting in the yard. Now its better but only slightly. There's a foundation and some framework. It's not move-in ready yet. Fans know it's not ready yet. But we're pleased with the progress so far. That's all. I see nothing "hilarious" about seeing and appreciating progress.
Now it's time for Heckert and Holmgrem to get him the correct pieces to finish it.
"Fairly talented team"? Seriously? It was a straw house built on quick-sand.
------------------------------ *In Baker we trust* -------------------------------
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At this point last year, the team was not competitive. It was being blown out and had the Quinn/Anderson saga going full force. Toss in the fact that Lewis had run out of gas, and the results were unacceptable given the amount of change.
Frankly, the Browns had nothing to hang their hat on, except the fact that Mack was a starter, and Mass was playing and contributing.
This year, the team has been in all of the games, and has looked much better. The offense still is poor, and the defense takes on a greater share of the load, due to the poor offense. The QB play has gone from terrible to barely acceptable. The WR's are terrible, except for Stuckey and Cribbs, who are complements, not every down players.
So, is praise merited? Yes, when you base it on where we were.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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One thing Grossi left out was the development of Chansi Stuckey. The guy has a role and does it well. He gets open and makes the catches and can usually make something happen after. I have seen a lot of his catches go for first downs. He seems more comfortable this year,that's for sure. If we had even a pulse as a #1 or 2 receiver that drew more attention he could have big games now and then..ala Welker. Here's hoping Robiskie and MoMass find themselves over the bye and challenge themselves to be better. To me it never seems Robiskie is giving 100%.
I will watch and hope maybe it is just taking more time for these QB's to get comfortable with the offense and trust themselves to get the ball out there and trust these young receivers. Maybe after the bye we can get our first 100 yard receiver of the year. Who knows, but at least now I am enjoying the process of watching this team come together and be built and headed in the right direction. I think Holmgren and Heckert see it, and knew coming in what stage in the process this was. They are still building as the year goes on..getting rid of Harrison and Davis..guys that were not in their plans and adding guys like Demetrius Williams to see if they fit.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Most people on this forum before the season said they wanted to see improvement and for the team to be competitive in most games. So far, "mission accomplished". 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
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Quote:
Most people on this forum before the season said they wanted to see improvement and for the team to be competitive in most games. So far, "mission accomplished".
Absolutely!
I'm not pleased with the record (so far... I expected 8-8 this year), but I am generally pleased with the level of play we're seeing. We're in need of talent in several areas still, but this team is not getting blown off the field each week... they actually look like they belong on an NFL field and they ARE competing! They look more like an NFL team than any of our teams since the '02 playoff run.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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agreed.
Most DID say that. And now that we're seeing what everybody wanted, we still see malcontents wee-weeing in the Wheaties.
Not every critical statement is without merit, and there is lots to improve upon, for sure... but there is a small cadre of posters here who simply don't want to acknowledge what other so clearly see- a team that is miles ahead of last year's in terms of competetiveness and heart. In my book, that's the fundamental place that needed to be addressed.
Now we have something that can be built upon- a core philosophy and a group of guys who have bought in. For the first time since '99, we have the beginnings of a team... not just 53 individuals wearing the same unis. The difference is night and day.
I like it. Wins would be even nicer, but I at least like the way they're losing... if that makes sense.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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It makes perfect sense.
Pretty soon those close losses will become close wins.
I think we are going to win a bunch of games moving forward.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Agreed. Balanced and fair. Wright/Brown have stunk it up. Order replacements. Play Colt more. Season him to shape next draft: Do we need to shop for a franchise QB or not? Find out now, this season. I do not believe there is any way to know other than this, and no time like now. It isna Ratliff, and the other two aren't 100%, so I go with the Colt McBoy, age him some, and we A) have a keeper, B) have a keeper and a starter, C) have a trade that has to get attention, if for no other reason than to chase all the lousy QBs we have flooded the has-been market with. Failure to go know the answers to your own questions holds the whole draft the next hostage. However, if you are willing to stand pat, play the cards you have and develop a QB, a number of other draft opportunities emerge. My granny said, "Go know." Great advice. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
General Reply: I am sorry I just see all this praise for a 2 win team and its hilarious. I dont get it.
You take a fairly talented team although they were riddled with injuries and turn them into the worst team to ever step on the field and now u have them contending for the #1 draft pick and its rainbows and roses.
Man if Mangini wins 6 games he may get a statue lol. Its like the kid that is beaten by his parents twice a day. He becomes a foster child and his foster parents beat him twice a week. Those foster parents are an improvement but ...
I think Grossi is generally fair and if he has been in the past overly critical: well, what do you expect from a writer who reviews a chronically losing franchise. My assessment. : I hated dealing Quinn( I was wrong) I hated paying a washed up Delhomme in QB freefall to run the team( I was correct) I was very disappointed we did not fortify the WORST WR corp in the NFL: news flash, it still is so every team can stack the run. We were delusional the slow Robiskie would translate into a top wr, he gets zero separation. I am totally disappointed in Daboll as OC, he is in WAY over his head. I am disappointed how we handled Harrison and Davis and got nothing of value in return. I am disappointed we still do not run Cribbs enough or let him THROW passes from the Wildcat or use the TEs enough as both are reliable targets. I am disappointed Saun Lavaou has not seen the field. I am not surprised a Tony Pashos who washed out in Jacksonville and Oline starved san fran promptly was hurt for us. Of all the holdouts for more money in pre season the ONLY one who has made his case on the field is the OL.
Finally we have been outcoached in most of our contests. Yet for the first time I have seen the use of some colorful gadgets from the vanilla browns coaching that they worked as the opposing Saints were caught offguard. When you have lesser Talent, you have to pull three or so gadgets. let Cribbs pass off a reverse. I like Ryan as a defensive coach yet for the life of me I never saw a safety in the same zip Code giving our corner any help vs the Ravens and Bengals.
Mangini will have to win at least seven to keep his job I think in my opinion. His lack of adjustments cost the team victories over the Bucs and Chiefs. The use of some surprise plays vs the more talented saints will, I hope be more indicative of the second half of the season.
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Shaun will see the field soon. The high ankle sprain was not healed up yet. Look for him to take over at RG SOON.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I think Grossi is generally fair and if he has been in the past overly critical: well, what do you expect from a writer who reviews a chronically losing franchise.
Grossi is rarely fair.. and he likes to start rumors to get the buzz going..., But in this article, I'm having trouble finding a whole lotta fault.... Reporting on a losing franchise is tough so I'm going to cut him some slack..
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: I hated dealing Quinn( I was wrong) I hated paying a washed up Delhomme in QB freefall to run the team( I was correct)
Yup you were wrong about QUinn... but I'm not sure you are right about Delhomme.., with only having seen him healthy in one half of one game, rather than call him washed up, I'd rather say it's more of an incomplete. He was playing decent before the injury... so maybe it would have worked out better.. dunno.
You say this:
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I was very disappointed we did not fortify the WORST WR corp in the NFL:
Then you say this:
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I am totally disappointed in Daboll as OC, he is in WAY over his head.
It's almost as if you can't draw any correlation between the two. Would we be a better offensive unit with better Wideouts? I can't help but think the answer is yes.. and if that's the case, does Daboll actually appear over his head? Dunno, but it sure sounds as if the answer is no..
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I am disappointed how we handled Harrison and Davis and got nothing of value in return.
Harrison may have been having issues. Holmgren eluded to them yesterday but wasn't completely clear. But I think I can say this without fear of contridiction.. if Harrison would have been productive this year, had he stayed healthy this year or had he just been a better team player (supposition on my part that he may have not been) then I doubt he gets traded. It would be irresponsible to trade him without some other reason.
We got Mike Bell in return and his stats are close to Harrison.... Perhaps it was just the fact that Bell more closely resembles Hillis. So, interchanging Hillis with Bell wouldn't seem to require a whole bunch of new schemes..
And you can bet they aren't going to bad mouth harrison, so your disappointment is noted, but I just believe there was more,, much more to it.
As for Davis, what's he done.. Nothing.. no loss..
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I am disappointed Saun Lavaou has not seen the field.
He's injured,,. what is it you expect?
I hear some of what your saying and can agree.. but on these items above, I disagree with you.
But before you go outside and blow your head off worrying about whether or not I agree,, Remember,, I could be wrong... 
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Don't worry about being wrong Daman.... I predicted Robiskie would have a break-out season. Can't get any more wrong than that. 
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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and he likes to start rumors to get the buzz going
At least the rumors aren't as bad as the stuff Roger Brown would put out.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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and he likes to start rumors to get the buzz going
At least the rumors aren't as bad as the stuff Roger Brown would put out.
I've never gotten over losing Hal Lebovitz.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
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General Reply: I am sorry I just see all this praise for a 2 win team and its hilarious. I dont get it.
Many of us wanted to see improvement and a more competative team week in and week out. We're seeing that.
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You take a fairly talented team although they were riddled with injuries and turn them into the worst team to ever step on the field and now u have them contending for the #1 draft pick and its rainbows and roses.
You had some "me me ego's" that had to go, a new system installed. We saw a new HC, a new GM and Head of football operations installed WHILE seeing improvement week in and week out. Unless you're from the "Rome was built in a day" train of thinking, I'd say that's worth feeling good about for a change.
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Man if Mangini wins 6 games he may get a statue lol. Its like the kid that is beaten by his parents twice a day. He becomes a foster child and his foster parents beat him twice a week. Those foster parents are an improvement but ...
Enjoy the ride. Even the detractors should "try" to do that.

Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
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Kind of agree with you here. Kinda 50/50.
I don't like the fact that we undoubtedly have the worst WR corp in the history of the NFL. Suckitude on a whole new, fresh level.
I don't like the fact that anyone can throw a ball over the top of our safeties at will.
Not a fan of our general slowness. Can't remember the last time I saw a team this slow up and down the board. Even our fast players Cribbs? Bernard? Haden? are not fast. Not even close. Who am I forgetting here? Carlton Mitchell??? Do we have a player that's running away from anybody? On either side of the ball? If you listed the 5 fastest players on the Browns could they beat the 5 fastest players on Ohio State head to head in a 40 yard dash? Not a chance. Crazy.
I do like that we seem to have a team full of football players though. For the most part I like watching us play. I've waited to see the Browns bring back that physicality and they've brought that. Me likey.
We're just terribly overmatched athletically. But we're trying hard and playing to me interesting football games. I do trust Tom Heckert looking at his track record in Philly. And I trust that Holmgren is seeing what I'm seeing.
Let's get some more football players that actually could run away from other teams and I think we'll be competitive against any team.
Got to say I don't mind watching us on Sundays. Keep it up!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Mourg, what happened? Prior to the season you were loving the physical nature of the team. I even think you were liking Mangini. You've done a 180 on a team that is playing competitive ball.
What's turned you so much?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,550
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Frankly I havent seen the same physical brand of football that we saw last year. The only guy on O that is playing with any physicallity is Hillis. I think this OL is being pushed around and is playing no where near what they are capable of.
I think Vickers has gone from the best fullback in the NFL to a guy that is getting steamrolled on a rather consistent basis. I mean has the guy picked up the inside blitz once this year?
It started with Suh trying to rip Delhomme's head off and the Browns just laid down and took it.
I really soured on Mangini with the way he handled Delhomme. He put the guy in the game when he could barely walk. He left him in the game when he was getting killed and playing horrible. I dont know if the guy has what it takes to be a winning coach.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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He also put Delhomme in when he had practiced during the week, and had been cleared medically to play. Delhomme not only asked to be active, and ensured that he was ready to go, but took a shot prior to the game "just in case".
McCoy took almost no snaps that week. Delhomme had to get back up to speed.
Putting McCoy in there at that point would have been a disaster. He hadn't practiced the gameplan. He probably got hardly any snaps at all that week. It would have been a horrible situation if he had been thrown in there under those circumstances.
Now, Delhomme had some issues. However, we were down 13-10 with about 9 minutes left. Unfortunately, then Delhomme had the pick 6 and the game was over. However, he was still probably a better option at that point than McCoy. He had practiced, and was the #2 QB.
I don't have a major problem with that decision.
At this point in the season, I would say to Jake that we are going to go with Seneca and Colt the rest of the way, and give him the option of either being released, or going on IR. (depending on his injury status) I would then decide whether winning with Wallace is more important than working to develop McCoy or visa versa.
That's me though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
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At this point in the season, I would say to Jake that we are going to go with Seneca and Colt the rest of the way, and give him the option of either being released, or going on IR. (depending on his injury status) I would then decide whether winning with Wallace is more important than working to develop McCoy or visa versa.
We barely reached the midway point of the season and we had already gone through two QB's and down to our third due to injury. with half the year left still to go, why in the world would you want to get rid of one of our viable options?
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
Because we also have 4 QBs on our roster. We could seriously use that extra spot for another DBor other developmental player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
He also put Delhomme in when he had practiced during the week, and had been cleared medically to play. Delhomme not only asked to be active, and ensured that he was ready to go, but took a shot prior to the game "just in case".
A lot of players ask to be put back in when they're not ready,thats not new. Fact is the coaches see these guys in practice,and from everything I read he was not moving around like he was ready. When he first went down,Wallace got the reps but McCoy should have gotten plenty because you're always one play away from getting in. That shows short-sightedness on the coaching staff.
McCoy took almost no snaps that week. Delhomme had to get back up to speed.
See above response.
Putting McCoy in there at that point would have been a disaster. He hadn't practiced the gameplan. He probably got hardly any snaps at all that week. It would have been a horrible situation if he had been thrown in there under those circumstances.
Don't get offensed but a idiot off the street could see Jake couldn't play and was a sitting duck..what they could have done was repped both QB's..that was stupid and again shows no planning at all. U get the rookie ready in case something goes wrong and it did..I told someone in a post this didn't look good .
Now, Delhomme had some issues. However, we were down 13-10 with about 9 minutes left. Unfortunately, then Delhomme had the pick 6 and the game was over. However, he was still probably a better option at that point than McCoy. He had practiced, and was the #2 QB. I don't have a major problem with that decision.
Oh you're telling me that it was the logical thing to do? U didn't care that that he suffered further injury when it could and shoyuld have been avoided?? It was one of the dumbest decisions Mangini has made . U don't put in your broken down QB going against better judgement..the probelm was Mangini was too fixed on getting Jake back in ,instead of looking at the bigger picture,now Jake isn't going to be out there for a long while. I said when he first suffered the injury it would take 4-6 weeks..not 2-3.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Boy, I'll be glad once we finally get another game in so we can start talking about something else. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
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Frankly I havent seen the same physical brand of football that we saw last year. The only guy on O that is playing with any physicallity is Hillis. I think this OL is being pushed around and is playing no where near what they are capable of.
I think Vickers has gone from the best fullback in the NFL to a guy that is getting steamrolled on a rather consistent basis. I mean has the guy picked up the inside blitz once this year?
It started with Suh trying to rip Delhomme's head off and the Browns just laid down and took it.
I really soured on Mangini with the way he handled Delhomme. He put the guy in the game when he could barely walk. He left him in the game when he was getting killed and playing horrible. I dont know if the guy has what it takes to be a winning coach.

I agree I think Mangini should have clearly put CM in the game and let him get his feet wet. Just because Colt had no practice snaps and was a rookie and was ill prepared to run the offense shouldn't have stopped Mangini from putting him in the game. McCoy is a pro right, no excuses RIGHT? After all the worst that could have happend is we lose, RIGHT..........................
Makes sense to me ........................Wrong!!!!
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 184
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 184 |
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The running back depth chart was turned upside down by the injury to Hardesty, a trade of Jerome Harrison to Philadelphia and the release of James Davis.
I was not happy with this either...why did we trade Davis and Harrison??
We had some of the best potenial RBs in our division. I have not felt the Bell has anything to offer. He may improve but he has not shown much.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
Harrison wasn't happy being the backup, and wasn't producing on the field. I also hear that he wasn't working all that hard in practice, and had withdrawn in the classroom.
Davis wanted out. He's done nothing at all for the team, and I have no idea why anyone is really all that upset that he's gone.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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